Is anyone the all good?

[Guest guest]

I think my nada might have me pegged as the all good (Most of the

time). I don't know much about the split...but I have two younger

brothers that she seems to peg as all bad. (Most of the time)

She's always complaining how my brothers aren't doing anything, and

how I'm the " good kid " . (Her words)

Then other times, she thinks I'm the worst offspring ever. Usually

for something stupid. I'll go shopping with her, pick out a shirt

for her to buy for herself (because she can't seem to pick things

out on her own), and then when she washes it and it shrinks,

I'm " all-bad " . She acts like I was supposed to predict the future

and know that would happen...

Does anyone else get a lot of the all good split?

[Guest guest]

I'm all bad all the time. Even if my Mother does say anything nice to me,

she'll reverse it - usually wihin minutes. At least I know where I stand lol.

.

[Guest guest]

I don't write often but this particular message struck a chord for

me. Not only have I been the all good child, I have been labelled

the " golden child " , the favorite. My nada has no problem telling

everyone, including my siblings, that I am the golden child and can

do no wrong. It has created such an incredible rift between my

siblings and me.

Early on I begged, pleaded, demanded that she not call me that and

that it was destroying what chance I had for relationships with my

brothers and my sister. She just always said that her mother's

favorite was her sister, everyone knew it and it didn't hurt anyone.

Amazing how she can't see the correlation between that and her hatred

and jealousy for her sister. She always said she doesn't understand

why everyone has such a hard time with the truth. Hmmm.

I have used the past tense on this message because with the help of

this site and the help of my sister I have been setting some serious

boundaries and that has given me the opportunity to feel what it is

like to be the all bad child even if it is only for a short time. I

upset her enough recently that I think I was the all bad child for

about 72 hours.

Since my sister introduced me to the BP world and we have shared it

with our other sibling, we have come a long way with our

relationships. Our nada was so successful in manipulating us and

splitting us that we weren't even aware of the source...we just knew

we didn't get along. Now we are closer than ever and we are enjoying

each other. My siblings are now (I hope!) learning that I am

not " golden " and that our nada used that to keep me all to herself

and away from them.

And I am still, mostly, the all good child to my nada. Thank God for

the 8 hour distance and caller ID! I sometimes think about how nice

it would be to be an all bad child just so I didn't have her to deal

with. But my sister and I have decided, at least for the time being,

to maintain a relationship with our nada. (My sister is mostly an

all good child too...our brothers are all bad) We've just gotten

really good at boundaries and not answering our phones when she is

going through one of her " episodes " .

Sorry for the long message. I haven't seen many all good kids on

here. Most people seem to have trouble with their nadas because they

have been the all bad. Seems like the majority of the all good are

the ones that live with and put up with their nada's antics. Not

this all good (and a wee bit bad now)child.

[Guest guest]

Hi. I was probably the all good more often than not. My sis was

probably the all bad more often than not. She once made the comment

that I was the " favorite " and that my mother and I were so close and

I told her: I wasn't close to mom, I didn't have anything more with

her than you did. My mom tried to take the goodness from me and dump

her ugliness onto my sis. There was no giving to me. I had to listen

to her problems all the time and be there for her when she was crying

and depressed and listen to her endless stories of her abusive

childhood. It's like someone telling you how great a listener you are

and then rambling on and on about themselves. You feel obligated to

listen, because afterall, they complimented you how great a listener

you are, but somehow you feel used and you realize it isn't about you

at all. It is manipulation at its finest. I was never close to my

mother. She placed us in whatever role " she " needed us to play

regardless of the price we paid. I think because she " seemed " nicer

to me at times that it was perceived that I was treated better; but

it was not better; the abuse was just more covert. And that can be

more confusing than being told outright that you are bad and treated

badly. I was told I was good and treated badly. It didn't make sense

and yet how could I complain? I was the " good child " . -

> I think my nada might have me pegged as the all good (Most of the

> time). I don't know much about the split...but I have two younger

> brothers that she seems to peg as all bad. (Most of the time)

>

> She's always complaining how my brothers aren't doing anything, and

> how I'm the " good kid " . (Her words)

>

> Then other times, she thinks I'm the worst offspring ever. Usually

> for something stupid. I'll go shopping with her, pick out a shirt

> for her to buy for herself (because she can't seem to pick things

> out on her own), and then when she washes it and it shrinks,

> I'm " all-bad " . She acts like I was supposed to predict the future

> and know that would happen...

>

> Does anyone else get a lot of the all good split?

[Guest guest]

I was mostly the " all good " one. It's hard to imagine that now

because I remember feeling like I was so wrong, so bad all the time

growing up. I always felt a huge responsibility to nada and her

feelings. She used to brag to people about how when she was upset

(raging), I would come to her and ask her what she needed for me to

do to make her feel better. yuck!

I allowed her to control me much more than my sister did. I thought

it was my " job " to make sure my nada was happy. Talk about an

impossible job. I'm pretty sure I'm not " all good " anymore though.

I quit talking to nada first, my nada then stopped talking to my

sister. Right now I think we are both " no good " in nada's eyes. I'm

loving being " no good " though, I wish I'd done it much sooner.

rachel

[Guest guest]

Hi Edith,

After reading your comments, I am sure that the reason my mother put

me on a pedestal to knock me down was that she considered me as an

extension of her narcissistic self. I thought she was NPD before I

started learning more about BPD, and I still think NPD is a large

part of it. She puts her own self on a pedestal and then knocks

herself down, all the time. The pedestal is for others to see and

the knocking down is in private.

This also explains why I saw my brother as " all-good " while he saw

himself as " all-bad " . I saw the public image and he saw the private

image. I was openly rebellious, so he wasn't fooled when she put me

on the pedestal for public consumption. I felt like Hansel, being

fattened up by the witch so he could be eaten. As a child I was

often conscious of this image.

<< I mostly learned what not to do to not be punished by watching my

older sister get punished and simply not doing that. >>

That was my gift to my brother. He learned to avoid the punishments

that I was never able to avoid. By going first, by taking the arrows

and snakebites, I cleared a path for him to have a better life.

- Dan

[Guest guest]

Dan wrote:

> Hi Edith,

> ... I am sure that the reason my mother put

> me on a pedestal to knock me down was that she considered me as an

> extension of her narcissistic self. ...

> She puts her own self on a pedestal and then knocks

> herself down, all the time. The pedestal is for others to see and

> the knocking down is in private.

Hi Dan,

Hmmm, interesting! Now I have some thoughts/questions.

Do you see what she did to herself in private (and to you, in private)

as a form of self-mutilating behavior on her part (see #5, below)? And,

secondly, that her poor boundaries and self-mutilating stuff might be

related to your wanting to have your leg off?

There's a saying that goes, " When I was a child, I spake (ie, thought)

like a child... " As I remember from a prior post, that thought

originated when you were a child and knew nothing about PDs or boundaries.

And, you also wrote, " I was openly rebellious, so he [brother] wasn't

fooled when she put me on the pedestal for public consumption. " But, by

being 'rebellious', might it be that you want the result to be

acknowledged openly? Its easy to see that someone has a missing leg vs

the unacknowledged stuff that Bradshaw pointed to that happens behind

the closed doors of Home Sweet Home.

- Edith

<<

Therapists use a book called " The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual "

(DSM) of the American Psychiatric Association to make mental health

diagnoses. They've outlined nine traits that people with Borderline

Personality Disorder seem to have in common; the presence of five or

more of them may indicate BPD.

However, please note the following:

* EVERYONE has all these traits to a certain extent. Especially

teenagers. These traits must be long-standing (lasting years) and

persistent. And they must be INTENSE.

* Be very careful about diagnosing yourself or others. In fact, don't do

it. Top researchers guide patients through several days of testing

before they make a diagnosis. Don't make your own diagnosis on the basis

of a WWW site or a book!

* Many people who have BPD also have other concerns, such as depression,

eating disorders, substance abuse--even multiple personality disorder or

attention deficit disorder. It can be difficult to isolate what is BPD

and what might be something else. Again, you need to talk to a

*qualified* professional familiar with treating BPD.

~The DSM Definition of BPD:

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships,

self-image, and affects (moods), and marked impulsivity beginning by

early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by

five (or more) of the following:

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not

include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in (5).

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships

characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and

devaluation. This is called " splitting. "

3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image

or sense of self

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging

(e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating,

shoplifting). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior

covered in (5).

5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or

self-mutilating behavior

6. Affective instability (rapid mood changes) due to a marked

reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or

anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few

days)

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g.,

frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative

symptoms. Dissociation is the state in which, on some level or another,

one becomes somewhat removed from " reality, " whether this be

daydreaming, performing actions without being fully connected to their

performance ( " running on automatic " ), or other, more disconnected

actions. It is the opposite of " association " and involves the lack of

association, usually of one's identity, with the rest of the world.

There is no " pure " BPD; it coexists with other illnesses. These are the

most common that BPD may coexist with:

Post traumatic stress disorder

Mood disorders

Panic/anxiety disorders

Substance abuse: 54% of BPs also have a problem

with substance abuse

Gender identity disorder

Attention deficit disorder

Eating disorders

Dissociative disorder (formerly multiple personality

disorder)

Obsessive-compulsive disorder

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Edith,

<< Do you see what she did to herself in private (and to you, in

private) as a form of self-mutilating behavior on her part (see #5,

below)? >>

> 5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or > self-

mutilating behavior

My mother didn't make open suicide threats to me when I was little.

She was suicidal at that time, and I believe that she once (ineptly)

tried to poison herself and me with her. Her threats were directed

to me, generally of the form " if you [keep being what you are] you

will never be [loved, successful, believed, ...] " And, " if you [keep

having fun that way] you will break your leg " which meant to

me " break your leg off " .

<< And, secondly, that her poor boundaries and self-mutilating stuff

might be related to your wanting to have your leg off? >>

I am sure of that. She taught me that she looked forward to death

and oblivion, that there is no life after death, and that when I grew

up I would also look forward to oblivion like her. In other words,

she has no soul and I don't either. I was terrified and I bargained,

a leg to buy my soul. A pretty good bargain.

<< " When I was a child, I spake (ie, thought) like a child... " >>

I have no logical reason now to lose my leg. I know in my mind that

I have a soul despite what my mother taught me. The problem is that

the most inner core of me doesn't understand that. When I think of

death, the most frightening thing to me is to die without ever having

experienced life as an amputee. It feels like I would have failed to

keep my part of the bargain, a leg for my soul, and would die without

a soul. I cannot reason with the inner part of myself, he is too

little to understand it.

<< But, by being 'rebellious', might it be that you want the result

to be acknowledged openly? Its easy to see that someone has a missing

leg vs the unacknowledged stuff that Bradshaw pointed to that happens

behind the closed doors of Home Sweet Home. >>

This is true also. I fantasize not even having a prosthesis, or

using one only when socially necessary like at work. I feel totally

helpless dealing with my childhood feelings of invalidation. I don't

know how to start, and years of therapy haven't had any obvious

effect. If I had one leg there would be a whole bunch of new

problems to overcome. These would be physical problems. I am

confident in my ability to solve those and to accept those I cannot

solve. At the very least it would distract me from dwelling on

problems I cannot solve.

Last week I was sitting in a cafeteria. I was musing about a leg-

hold trap that was hanging on the wall as a decoration. I saw it on

my leg, with numerous chains attached to it and staked to the

ground. The first chain was staked down by my mother. Other chains

were staked down by bullies at school, bullies in the office, and my

ex-wife. It is easy to add chains when the victim is already chained

down. When I get into a situation where people are suspicious,

blaming, or invalidating, I feel intense pain because the chains are

being yanked. I can't get the trap off. Nobody can help me. It is

too firmly embedded in the flesh. Most people would rather yank the

chains than try to help. The urge to cut the leg off and free myself

is sometimes overwhelming.

My therapist said that a fox caught in a trap will chew his leg off,

but a wolf will not. A wolf could not survive as an amputee because

he must keep up with the pack. I am a loner like a fox.

- Dan