Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Armour is fast acting, but your reactions are not typical. Are you sure you do not have the flu or food poisoning? The last time I had food poisoning, I thought I was going to die. The muscle cramps may be from the loss of electrolytes due to the vomiting. My thought is that if you were going to have a reaction to the Armour, it would have occurred with the first dose, not the third. valgutierrez wrote: Well, yesterday was my 3rd dose of armour, and Dr Hartig has me on 15mg to start (or .25 grain?). I was feeling better, but then last night I experienced an attack of nausea, sweating, fast heart, dizziness, then vomitting. It was sudden onset. This morning I have muscle cramps in legs and arms. I have not taken my dose this morning, and I am not sure what to do. With $ythroid, it took a little while for the effects to be noticed. Is it possible that the armour caused this attack?? Is my body just getting used to a new thing? I took 1st dose in evening, second next morning, third, next morning. I am due for next dose. Is armour fast acting? I figure I can call Dr H Mon morning, but didnt want to bother her over the weekend. Thanks for any input gals! When I had my blood test, my ft4 were in mid range, but FT3 on low end. I wonder if I have a problem coverting to t3? When I was on .50 to .75 mcg synthroid, I became hyper, but on 25-50 was hypo. Oh God! I just cant take this anymore. Oh, and my AM blood cortisol was mid range. Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Val, It doesn't sound like a reaction to Armour. How are you feeling now? What times were you told to take your Armour? Dr. R's patients take their Armour doses six hours apart. That would make the second dose around 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon. On the Synthroid when it was high did you feel hyper or your labs showed you hyper? If you felt hyper what were the symptoms then? What was the actual number and range on your morning cortisol? Were you very nervous about the switch to Armour? Hope you feel better. Carol >> Well, yesterday was my 3rd dose of armour, and Dr Hartig has me on > 15mg to start (or .25 grain?). I was feeling better, but then last > night I experienced an attack of nausea, sweating, fast heart, > dizziness, then vomitting. It was sudden onset. This morning I have > muscle cramps in legs and arms. I have not taken my dose this > morning, and I am not sure what to do. With $ythroid, it took a > little while for the effects to be noticed. Is it possible that the > armour caused this attack?? Is my body just getting used to a new > thing? I took 1st dose in evening, second next morning, third, next > morning. I am due for next dose. Is armour fast acting? I figure I > can call Dr H Mon morning, but didnt want to bother her over the > weekend. Thanks for any input gals! When I had my blood test, my ft4 > were in mid range, but FT3 on low end. I wonder if I have a problem > coverting to t3? When I was on .50 to .75 mcg synthroid, I became > hyper, but on 25-50 was hypo. Oh God! I just cant take this > anymore. Oh, and my AM blood cortisol was mid range.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Weren't you on much more T4 than the little 15 mgs of Armour is taking the place of? Has it been only 3 days since you quit the T4? I would be thinking that this is not nearly enough to take the place of that and that you should have split the dose of T4 to go WITH this tiny amt of Armour, since you've been on that T4 for so long (I'm assuming so long, to my remembrance). Weren't you on 50 mcgs or more of T4? If so, this was a very drastic reduction in med to start with. Yes, the T3 is very direct, but it seems that she would have gradually reduced the T4, as she brings your Armour up higher, a little at a time, every 6 wks or so. I know that they say that you could go much longer without all the T4 you need and not feel it, but I can tell you right now that I can feel going without that much for just 2 or 3 days, with all the same symptoms you're describing right now. Is your heart rate fast or is is beating fluttering, bumping, and beating maybe too hard, instead. Palpitations are something that happen to me regularly if I go just a couple of days without that much T4. I'm not saying go BACK to the T4 completely, but maybe Dr. Hartig would agree for you to split the dose of that, while beginning the Armour and then gradually reduce it, as she brings up the Armour dose. I frankly think that's exactly what's happening. Armour Quest. > Well, yesterday was my 3rd dose of armour, and Dr Hartig has me on > 15mg to start (or .25 grain?). I was feeling better, but then last > night I experienced an attack of nausea, sweating, fast heart, > dizziness, then vomitting. It was sudden onset. This morning I have > muscle cramps in legs and arms. I have not taken my dose this > morning, and I am not sure what to do. With $ythroid, it took a > little while for the effects to be noticed. Is it possible that the > armour caused this attack?? Is my body just getting used to a new > thing? I took 1st dose in evening, second next morning, third, next > morning. I am due for next dose. Is armour fast acting? I figure I > can call Dr H Mon morning, but didnt want to bother her over the > weekend. Thanks for any input gals! When I had my blood test, my ft4 > were in mid range, but FT3 on low end. I wonder if I have a problem > coverting to t3? When I was on .50 to .75 mcg synthroid, I became > hyper, but on 25-50 was hypo. Oh God! I just cant take this > anymore. Oh, and my AM blood cortisol was mid range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Hi , Thanks for your reply. The synthroid dose was around 38 mcg, as I would take a 75 mcg and split that in half. I started last June on 50mcg syn, then bumped to 75, then became hyperthyroid, then down to 50, then down to 25 mcg, and then up to 1/2 of a 75 mcg! TSH was 8.2, then 3.8, then .3, then .01, then .7, then 2.8, now 4.1. What a mess. So Hartig says cut out synthroid altogether and just switch to the 15mg of armour to start. This is so baffling. I felt good for the first 2-3 of armour, but last night, I was driving home with a friend, then suddenly, out of nowhere, in the middle of the conversation, I get a flash of heat, feel like I cant breath, want to vomit, heart beating fast, dizzy, it was embarrasing. I have had panic attacks before, and usually I can feel them coming on, havent had one in several months, and they produce different symptoms. But maybe it was a panic attack caused by the med change. So maybe this weekend I will take some synthroid until I call her on Monday and figure out what to do next. I thought maybe my body was getting used to having the t3 from armour. Thanks for your insight. --- wrote: > Weren't you on much more T4 than the little 15 mgs > of Armour is taking the > place of? Has it been only 3 days since you quit > the T4? I would be > thinking that this is not nearly enough to take the > place of that and that > you should have split the dose of T4 to go WITH this > tiny amt of Armour, > since you've been on that T4 for so long (I'm > assuming so long, to my > remembrance). Weren't you on 50 mcgs or more of T4? > If so, this was a very > drastic reduction in med to start with. Yes, the T3 > is very direct, but it > seems that she would have gradually reduced the T4, > as she brings your > Armour up higher, a little at a time, every 6 wks or > so. I know that they > say that you could go much longer without all the T4 > you need and not feel > it, but I can tell you right now that I can feel > going without that much for > just 2 or 3 days, with all the same symptoms you're > describing right now. > Is your heart rate fast or is is beating fluttering, > bumping, and beating > maybe too hard, instead. Palpitations are something > that happen to me > regularly if I go just a couple of days without that > much T4. I'm not > saying go BACK to the T4 completely, but maybe Dr. > Hartig would agree for > you to split the dose of that, while beginning the > Armour and then gradually > reduce it, as she brings up the Armour dose. I > frankly think that's exactly > what's happening. > > > > > Armour Quest. > > > > Well, yesterday was my 3rd dose of armour, and Dr > Hartig has me on > > 15mg to start (or .25 grain?). I was feeling > better, but then last > > night I experienced an attack of nausea, sweating, > fast heart, > > dizziness, then vomitting. It was sudden onset. > This morning I have > > muscle cramps in legs and arms. I have not taken > my dose this > > morning, and I am not sure what to do. With > $ythroid, it took a > > little while for the effects to be noticed. Is it > possible that the > > armour caused this attack?? Is my body just > getting used to a new > > thing? I took 1st dose in evening, second next > morning, third, next > > morning. I am due for next dose. Is armour fast > acting? I figure I > > can call Dr H Mon morning, but didnt want to > bother her over the > > weekend. Thanks for any input gals! When I had > my blood test, my ft4 > > were in mid range, but FT3 on low end. I wonder > if I have a problem > > coverting to t3? When I was on .50 to .75 mcg > synthroid, I became > > hyper, but on 25-50 was hypo. Oh God! I just > cant take this > > anymore. Oh, and my AM blood cortisol was mid > range. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Hi Carol, I was a little nervous about switching to armour, but at the same time, ready to try it since the synthroid wasnt helping me. When I was on the 75 mcg syn, I began to lose weight, higher temp, felt sped up, yet tired all the time. My tsh was .3, but endo says just give it time, your body needs to get used to this. Well, 1 month later, symptoms worsen in strength, turn into full blown anxiety attacks, I think I am dying or something. Internist does blood work, and my free's are almost to top of range, tsh now to .01. She and endo tell me to go down to .50, next tsh has me at .07 4 weeks later. They say go down to .25mcg, and retake tsh and frees, and now the numbers have me swinging to hypo side. I asked endo should I go back to 50 because clearly, I am getting hypo on the 25 dose. He and internsist tell me to just wait. Confused and frustrated, I go see dr hartig who switches me to armour. 7-25 is cortisol range,and at 11am,time blood drawn, I was an 18. DHEA was 132 w/ range of 35-430? Dr H wasnt thinking anything was off with those values. I did take my 15 armour today, and so far, no nausea. I dont think its a flu, or else I would feel sick now. I am going to the Houston rodeo now, which involves walking around alot, so I hope I dont get another attack of this while I am there! --- carol77096 wrote: > > Val, > > It doesn't sound like a reaction to Armour. How are > you feeling now? > > What times were you told to take your Armour? Dr. > R's patients take > their Armour doses six hours apart. That would make > the second dose > around 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon. > > On the Synthroid when it was high did you feel hyper > or your labs showed > you hyper? If you felt hyper what were the symptoms > then? > > What was the actual number and range on your morning > cortisol? > > Were you very nervous about the switch to Armour? > > Hope you feel better. > > Carol > > > > > > > Well, yesterday was my 3rd dose of armour, and Dr > Hartig has me on > > 15mg to start (or .25 grain?). I was feeling > better, but then last > > night I experienced an attack of nausea, sweating, > fast heart, > > dizziness, then vomitting. It was sudden onset. > This morning I have > > muscle cramps in legs and arms. I have not taken > my dose this > > morning, and I am not sure what to do. With > $ythroid, it took a > > little while for the effects to be noticed. Is it > possible that the > > armour caused this attack?? Is my body just > getting used to a new > > thing? I took 1st dose in evening, second next > morning, third, next > > morning. I am due for next dose. Is armour fast > acting? I figure I > > can call Dr H Mon morning, but didnt want to > bother her over the > > weekend. Thanks for any input gals! When I had my > blood test, my ft4 > > were in mid range, but FT3 on low end. I wonder if > I have a problem > > coverting to t3? When I was on .50 to .75 mcg > synthroid, I became > > hyper, but on 25-50 was hypo. Oh God! I just cant > take this > > anymore. Oh, and my AM blood cortisol was mid > range. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 OK, so it was both. You felt hyper and your labs said hyper. Sometimes doctors say your hyper by your labs, but you don't feel hyper. That is a tiny Armour dose. When do you see Hartig again? Did she say anything about when she would increase? It doesn't seem equal to what you were on. Your DHEA could maybe be a little higher. Well, the rodeo would be too much for me, but have a little YeeeHaw for me. Carol > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Panic Attacks/Anxiety Attacks are hypo! They need to look at Free's and not just TSH, what where they with ranges when you where on Synthroid? 15mg of Armour is really low. They better not keep you that low very long. Kate Edited by moderator to include response: Anxiety attacks can be caused by hypo or hyper. They can also be adrenal. At 04:32 PM 3/3/2007, you wrote: >OK, so it was both. You felt hyper and your labs said hyper. Sometimes >doctors say your hyper by your labs, but you don't feel hyper. > >That is a tiny Armour dose. When do you see Hartig again? Did she say >anything about when she would increase? It doesn't seem equal to what you >were on. > >Your DHEA could maybe be a little higher. > >Well, the rodeo would be too much for me, but have a little YeeeHaw for me. > >Carol > > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.6/709 - Release Date: 3/3/2007 >8:12 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Ok, at this point, I'm also wondering whether that am cortisol wasn't the telling thing here, i.e., not saliva testing, so therefore, not catching this at all times a day through possible fluctuations in cortisol levels. You really weren't on enough T4 to make a huge difference there, as compared to the 15 mgs of Armour. Will she not do these saliva tests for all times of day? Have you been having a lot of fears about transferring to the Armour or are you afraid of taking any thyroid meds at all? This has me baffled for sure. Re: Armour Quest. > Hi , > > Thanks for your reply. The synthroid dose was around > 38 mcg, as I would take a 75 mcg and split that in > half. I started last June on 50mcg syn, then bumped > to 75, then became hyperthyroid, then down to 50, then > down to 25 mcg, and then up to 1/2 of a 75 mcg! TSH > was 8.2, then 3.8, then .3, then .01, then .7, then > 2.8, now 4.1. What a mess. So Hartig says cut out > synthroid altogether and just switch to the 15mg of > armour to start. This is so baffling. I felt good > for the first 2-3 of armour, but last night, I was > driving home with a friend, then suddenly, out of > nowhere, in the middle of the conversation, I get a > flash of heat, feel like I cant breath, want to vomit, > heart beating fast, dizzy, it was embarrasing. I have > had panic attacks before, and usually I can feel them > coming on, havent had one in several months, and they > produce different symptoms. But maybe it was a panic > attack caused by the med change. So maybe this > weekend I will take some synthroid until I call her on > Monday and figure out what to do next. I thought > maybe my body was getting used to having the t3 from > armour. > > Thanks for your insight. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Now what I'm thinking, is that that 11 am cortisol should have been done around 8 am. Has she said nothing about an early morning draw on that? This is the usual time for the blood test for that range. Why she did it at 11 am, is beyond me. Re: Re: Armour Quest. > Hi Carol, > I was a little nervous about switching to armour, but > at the same time, ready to try it since the synthroid > wasnt helping me. When I was on the 75 mcg syn, I > began to lose weight, higher temp, felt sped up, yet > tired all the time. My tsh was .3, but endo says just > give it time, your body needs to get used to this. > Well, 1 month later, symptoms worsen in strength, turn > into full blown anxiety attacks, I think I am dying or > something. Internist does blood work, and my free's > are almost to top of range, tsh now to .01. She and > endo tell me to go down to .50, next tsh has me at .07 > 4 weeks later. They say go down to .25mcg, and retake > tsh and frees, and now the numbers have me swinging to > hypo side. I asked endo should I go back to 50 > because clearly, I am getting hypo on the 25 dose. He > and internsist tell me to just wait. Confused and > frustrated, I go see dr hartig who switches me to > armour. 7-25 is cortisol range,and at 11am,time blood > drawn, I was an 18. DHEA was 132 w/ range of 35-430? > Dr H wasnt thinking anything was off with those > values. > > I did take my 15 armour today, and so far, no nausea. > I dont think its a flu, or else I would feel sick now. > I am going to the Houston rodeo now, which involves > walking around alot, so I hope I dont get another > attack of this while I am there! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 you know, I felt the same way thinking it was too late. But my apt was at 1015AM, so maybe I can ask to do it again the better way on another visit, or go to a lab near home and get it done early. To be fair, she kind of added cortisol as an aferthought when I brought up the thought maybe I had adrenal insufficiency. --- wrote: > Now what I'm thinking, is that that 11 am cortisol > should have been done > around 8 am. Has she said nothing about an early > morning draw on that? > This is the usual time for the blood test for that > range. Why she did it at > 11 am, is beyond me. > > > > Re: Re: Armour > Quest. > > > > Hi Carol, > > I was a little nervous about switching to armour, > but > > at the same time, ready to try it since the > synthroid > > wasnt helping me. When I was on the 75 mcg syn, I > > began to lose weight, higher temp, felt sped up, > yet > > tired all the time. My tsh was .3, but endo says > just > > give it time, your body needs to get used to this. > > Well, 1 month later, symptoms worsen in strength, > turn > > into full blown anxiety attacks, I think I am > dying or > > something. Internist does blood work, and my > free's > > are almost to top of range, tsh now to .01. She > and > > endo tell me to go down to .50, next tsh has me at > .07 > > 4 weeks later. They say go down to .25mcg, and > retake > > tsh and frees, and now the numbers have me > swinging to > > hypo side. I asked endo should I go back to 50 > > because clearly, I am getting hypo on the 25 dose. > He > > and internsist tell me to just wait. Confused and > > frustrated, I go see dr hartig who switches me to > > armour. 7-25 is cortisol range,and at 11am,time > blood > > drawn, I was an 18. DHEA was 132 w/ range of > 35-430? > > Dr H wasnt thinking anything was off with those > > values. > > > > I did take my 15 armour today, and so far, no > nausea. > > I dont think its a flu, or else I would feel sick > now. > > I am going to the Houston rodeo now, which > involves > > walking around alot, so I hope I dont get another > > attack of this while I am there! > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 No, I am not afraid of taking the meds, I am desperate to do anything to feel better. I keep thinking it could be something wrong in me converting t4 to t3. She checked my parathyroid function, and said that was " fine " , but it was 21 with range from 7-80 pg/ML? She seemed baffled herself, so she said she had to do a little research on this. I have high thyroglobulin AB (625, range is <4), but normal thyroid peroxidase AB <10, with ref range for that as <35 IU/ml. Last Sept. my thyroglobulin AB was 458. I have 112 IU/ml of the Graves antibody, with range under <125 IU/ml. So... I thought maybe I have a graves antibody too, and she said, no, you dont have graves, but I am wondering if the push and pull of these antibodies is behind this fluctuation in my med needs. I will call her and ask about whether she will order saliva testing, do you get that at the lab or do you buy it yourself? Its been such a rollercoaster, and it is taking way too long to get better. Thanks for your advice. --- wrote: > Ok, at this point, I'm also wondering whether that > am cortisol wasn't the > telling thing here, i.e., not saliva testing, so > therefore, not catching > this at all times a day through possible > fluctuations in cortisol levels. > You really weren't on enough T4 to make a huge > difference there, as compared > to the 15 mgs of Armour. Will she not do these > saliva tests for all times > of day? Have you been having a lot of fears about > transferring to the > Armour or are you afraid of taking any thyroid meds > at all? This has me > baffled for sure. > > > > Re: Armour Quest. > > > > Hi , > > > > Thanks for your reply. The synthroid dose was > around > > 38 mcg, as I would take a 75 mcg and split that in > > half. I started last June on 50mcg syn, then > bumped > > to 75, then became hyperthyroid, then down to 50, > then > > down to 25 mcg, and then up to 1/2 of a 75 mcg! > TSH > > was 8.2, then 3.8, then .3, then .01, then .7, > then > > 2.8, now 4.1. What a mess. So Hartig says cut > out > > synthroid altogether and just switch to the 15mg > of > > armour to start. This is so baffling. I felt > good > > for the first 2-3 of armour, but last night, I was > > driving home with a friend, then suddenly, out of > > nowhere, in the middle of the conversation, I get > a > > flash of heat, feel like I cant breath, want to > vomit, > > heart beating fast, dizzy, it was embarrasing. I > have > > had panic attacks before, and usually I can feel > them > > coming on, havent had one in several months, and > they > > produce different symptoms. But maybe it was a > panic > > attack caused by the med change. So maybe this > > weekend I will take some synthroid until I call > her on > > Monday and figure out what to do next. I thought > > maybe my body was getting used to having the t3 > from > > armour. > > > > Thanks for your insight. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 That sounds like Graves AND Hashi's to me, but doc says no? I know that's less than the " normal " for Graves, but more than there should be, period. You can order these saliva tests through ZRT labs yourself, but you would need her interpretation, more than likely, but I don't know yet whether or not she does them or can interpret them at all. If you go to the ZRT lab site, you can look them over, but I don't know their web address at this time. I would call her first. You're right, it does sound like push and pull to me. That seems like just a little too much antibody not to cause a problem there. Re: Armour Quest. > No, I am not afraid of taking the meds, I am desperate > to do anything to feel better. I keep thinking it > could be something wrong in me converting t4 to t3. > She checked my parathyroid function, and said that was > " fine " , but it was 21 with range from 7-80 pg/ML? She > seemed baffled herself, so she said she had to do a > little research on this. I have high thyroglobulin AB > (625, range is <4), but normal thyroid peroxidase AB > <10, with ref range for that as <35 IU/ml. Last Sept. > my thyroglobulin AB was 458. I have 112 IU/ml of the > Graves antibody, with range under <125 IU/ml. So... I > thought maybe I have a graves antibody too, and she > said, no, you dont have graves, but I am wondering if > the push and pull of these antibodies is behind this > fluctuation in my med needs. I will call her and ask > about whether she will order saliva testing, do you > get that at the lab or do you buy it yourself? Its > been such a rollercoaster, and it is taking way too > long to get better. Thanks for your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 And I know it's also hard to get out and about, when you're feeling pretty sick, been there for sure, and still there sometimes. Re: Re: Armour Quest. > you know, I felt the same way thinking it was too > late. But my apt was at 1015AM, so maybe I can ask to > do it again the better way on another visit, or go to > a lab near home and get it done early. To be fair, > she kind of added cortisol as an aferthought when I > brought up the thought maybe I had adrenal > insufficiency. > --- wrote: > >> Now what I'm thinking, is that that 11 am cortisol >> should have been done >> around 8 am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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