Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 > " I do not know how to distinguish between our waking life and a > dream. Are we not always living the life that we imagine we are? " > > --- Henry Thoreau *****Thank you Steve! I found this to be a wonderful quote. It accords with what I have been seeing for several months. When I examine the memory of an event I have " lived " through, its contours, texture, shape, and 'feel,' I find it to be indistinguishable from the memory of a dream I have " dreamt. " As as modern sage has written, " This is the great game: the infinite manifests through you as a dreamed character in a grand play called life. Mesmerized into the belief that you are a separate individual, you therefore believe that you have to negotiate with existence. This is frightening, among other things. A sense of your mortality and vulnerability sets in, and from then on you are powerfully motivated to maintain the status quo. What you are is nothing. What you are is beyond anything you ever believed. You as a separate entity have no choice and no free will. You are simply being lived through by the infinite in order to discover that you are the infinite. All that is there is a dreamed character in a novel who will respond or react to any given circumstance in the way that the author chooses. These actions will be, to some extent, characteristic, but will also be influenced by the conditioning and belief systems that ensue at the time. These are such perplexing and threatening concepts that most people reject them. When they are also told that there is nothing they can do to rediscover their freedom, then the whole thing becomes unacceptable to the mind. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 > " I do not know how to distinguish between our waking life and a > dream. Are we not always living the life that we imagine we are? " > > --- Henry Thoreau Last night I dreamt I was talking with my mum. At the end of the dream I thought " I really must visit mum soon " when I remembered she died. It was disappointing, but of course I had been visiting her. 'Died' is such a limiting word - I like 'trance-ended' better, happy hols, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 The Sick Rose Blake O Rose, thou art sick! The invisible worm That flies in the night, In the howling storm, Has found out thy bed Of crimson joy: And his dark secret love Does thy life destroy. Tim How beautiful in the making of working it out do your statements shine . I drop the great words from the venerable Blake because how like this spiritual malaise of the so-called ideal self is the condensation in the spoken word above . I re - quote To have an 'ideal' thought of who we should be is > nothing but self-hate, disguised as spirituality. Let go ! Peace . > From Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 > ... > *****I love you Tom! (Andy smiling deeply!) Thank you, Andy. I love you too. > ... As I feel affection and > closeness with all who populate this List, all who inhabit this > life. (And for the likes of Osama Bin Laden, there is - if not > affection - at least a feeling of kinship.) > > Once it is seen, it becomes clear, strikingly so, that NO ONE is > controlling the boat. There is no " further along the way. " There is > just what is happening, at any single moment. And then it's done, > over with. Then thought steps in, creating a past (memory) and a > future (imagination) and the idea of my " self " is birthed. And the > dream takes on shape, color, texture, flavor. Yes, my conscious mind agrees with you in this moment, ... and it doesn't live there all the time. > Yes, it would be nice if insights were present here in ways that > would be useful to all. It just doesn't happen that way. Insights, > thoughts, notions, concepts arise in seemingly apparent locales, and, > sometimes get post. Another locale witnesses the insights, thoughts, > notions, concepts and may, or may not, experience a sense of > usefulness about them. Each is guided by his/her own innate > conditioning-in-the-moment. Yes. > It seems to me, underlying your words, there is a picture of an > idyllic 'space' where there is no pain, no upset, no disappointment > in one another's posts, and, an inherent assumption that if everyone > would just post in such and such a way (e.g., in a 'kind' manner), no > pain, upset, or disappointment would happen. Yes. The belief as I hear it in my head goes something like: " The lwi list should feel safe for anyone who wants to to post their work. People should be able to post their work without fear of being told their experience is unreal, or that they should 'turn it around' before they're ready to, or .... " I'm dictating how participants should feel about the list and attempting to control what happens to make it safe for everyone. Hopeless! What feels safe to one may feel very dangerous to another. What feels like judgement to one may feel useful to another. And there's a belief here that the emphasis of the list should be on The Work. > Behind all that is the notion of control: the sense that (a) the > poster can control what is written and ( the reader can make use of > what is written and © what the poster writes, expressing it in a > manner that he/she feels is " kind, " will be similarly received by the > reader. (d) the moderator can and should control the tone and sense of safety that list participants experience. > Have you ever noticed that words said in kindness may be > experienced as very harsh; and vice versa. Yes, I had that experience just a few minutes ago with Jan. She reported that her experience was one of judgment while my experience was of being helped. > Where is the control to > produce the desired outcome? To achieve the perfect union of the > two...well...you would have as much success carrying on a > conversation with the furniture. :-))))) What's your point? Are you saying I shouldn't talk to my couch?! Oh well, maybe you're right. It never listens to me anyhow. Seriously, I see your point. No one can exercise that level of control. And in the messages this morning, I have received my desired outcome -- a sense of real connection with Andy and Jan and others. > And, at the same time, it is recognized that you, Tom, can do no > other than what you are doing, offer no other words than those which > you are compelled to do. And it is in that understanding that love > for you arises and for you, as the reflection of me, an embrace > occurs. Thank you for understanding, Andy. love, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 <snip> > Have you ever noticed that words said in kindness may be > experienced as very harsh; and vice versa. Yes, I had that experience just a few minutes ago with Jan. She reported that her experience was one of judgment while my experience was of being helped. *****Six billion experiences arising, moment to moment. Some of them compelled to believe that 'their' experience and the judgment appearing out of such is the 'right one,' not recognizing that it is only 'right' one for them. Tom's experience was his. Valid. For him. As was Jan's. For her. Who is there to argue with such? How futile it is to attempt to make anyone else's world you own. How such strivings obscure one's essential and irrevocable peace overshadowing it with worry, concern, fretting. > Where is the control to > produce the desired outcome? To achieve the perfect union of the > two...well...you would have as much success carrying on a > conversation with the furniture. :-))))) What's your point? Are you saying I shouldn't talk to my couch?! Oh well, maybe you're right. It never listens to me anyhow. *****Are you sure? ;-)) Seriously, I see your point. No one can exercise that level of control. *****No one exercises any level of control. Any notion of control is a chimera. And in the messages this morning, I have received my desired outcome -- a sense of real connection with Andy and Jan and others. *****Lucky you! May you always be so blessed! > And, at the same time, it is recognized that you, Tom, can do no > other than what you are doing, offer no other words than those which > you are compelled to do. And it is in that understanding that love > for you arises and for you, as the reflection of me, an embrace > occurs. Thank you for understanding, Andy. *****Thank you for being here for me. Hugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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