Re: Re: Synthroid vs Armour?

[Guest guest]

Is Gonino working with you on that or are you doing this all on your own?Judy P wrote: Good for you n. I'm glad to find someone else who's doing well on synthetic T4 since there don't seem to be many of us. I personally can't tolerate Synthroid for some reason, but I take another brand of the same thing. I'm dabbling at adding a little Armour to it, but the changes in how I feel are so drastic from one day to the next that I can't really tell what's working or what's not. Do you mind telling me the reasons that your Endo gave you for preferring Synthroid? A lot of Endos are Synthroid and TSH fans, so I'm just curious about what he told you. I'm still processing information myself. How long have you been on Synthroid and what dose are you taking? Good luck... Judy I, personally, am feeling SOO much better since starting on Synthroid.So, for the time being, I will leave my meds where they are, but Iwill keep the other options in my mind if/when my meds do not seem aseffective. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

No, I'm doing on my own for now, but I'm staying within his limits. The NP first had me up my dosage to 150mcg levo and then ordered the Armour. When I saw him, he left me on the 2 grains of Armour. Last Friday when I called the office, they said that I could decrease if I wanted to, which I did, but then I wasn't get enough of anything.

I didn't want to keep calling, but I wasn't having good luck with the Armour and wanted to back off until I could get the 24 hour adrenal test. I'm still waking up with a fast heartbeat at 5-6am, but it only lasts for about an hour. Right now I'm taking 100mcg levo and 1/2 grain Armour with gives me about 137mcg equivalent and so I haven't gone over the boundary set by Janet or Dr. Gonino.

I plan to tell him exactly what I'm doing when I see him next and ask for his endorsement. Do you think I should call and tell them that I've gone back on the Eltroxin? I'm not one to self treat at all, but I just felt so terrible that I had to do something and I didn't want to stop all together and let all my levels bottom out. Do you think I'm going to be in big trouble?.. Judy

Re: Re: Synthroid vs Armour?

Is Gonino working with you on that or are you doing this all on your own?Judy P <akaperkyj> wrote:

Good for you n. I'm glad to find someone else who's doing well on synthetic T4 since there don't seem to be many of us. I personally can't tolerate Synthroid for some reason, but I take another brand of the same thing. I'm dabbling at adding a little Armour to it, but the changes in how I feel are so drastic from one day to the next that I can't really tell what's working or what's not.

Do you mind telling me the reasons that your Endo gave you for preferring Synthroid? A lot of Endos are Synthroid and TSH fans, so I'm just curious about what he told you. I'm still processing information myself. How long have you been on Synthroid and what dose are you taking?

Good luck... Judy

I, personally, am feeling SOO much better since starting on Synthroid.So, for the time being, I will leave my meds where they are, but Iwill keep the other options in my mind if/when my meds do not seem aseffective.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I don't think they are going to yell at you. I do know that Dr. G is willing to Rx a combo such as what you are currently experimenting with. It would be a good idea to tell them what you are doing right away. Maybe send a fax or an email. That's what I did when I self-increased my sex hormones several months ago. I got the doc onboard right away. He supported me by giving me the extra refill that I needed to continue that dose. In any case, make sure you are on a stable dose for at least six weeks before your next labs. Judy P

wrote: No, I'm doing on my own for now, but I'm staying within his limits. The NP first had me up my dosage to 150mcg levo and then ordered the Armour. When I saw him, he left me on the 2 grains of Armour. Last Friday when I called the office, they said that I could decrease if I wanted to, which I did, but then I wasn't get enough of anything. I didn't want to keep calling, but I wasn't having good luck with the Armour and wanted to back off until I could get the 24 hour adrenal test. I'm still waking up with a fast heartbeat at 5-6am, but it only lasts for

about an hour. Right now I'm taking 100mcg levo and 1/2 grain Armour with gives me about 137mcg equivalent and so I haven't gone over the boundary set by Janet or Dr. Gonino. I plan to tell him exactly what I'm doing when I see him next and ask for his endorsement. Do you think I should call and tell them that I've gone back on the Eltroxin? I'm not one to self treat at all, but I just felt so terrible that I had to do something and I didn't want to stop all together and let all my levels bottom out. Do you think I'm going to be in big trouble?.. Judy

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[Guest guest]

I was thinking about that after your last message, so I'll call them and leave a message tomorrow. I may just go back to straight Eltroxin until I talk to him in a couple of weeks. I wasn't that bad on it and we can discuss my Eltroxin labs and see what he thinks about the combo. I really need the 24 hour adrenal testing because I'm still waking up around 5-6 am with a fast heartbeat that I can feel. It's not tremendously fast or pounding, but it's enough to wake me up. Also I'm still retaining water badly mostly in my legs. I had lost 15 pounds before I last saw him and only 1 since. It's not my biggest goal, but it is still disappointing to have such a setback after all the hard work. I'm eating and exercising the same, but it just won't budge. It is probably connected to the water retention. He's going to test my iodine as well. I won't do the thyroid testing until 6 weeks after I talk to him again and make sure that I've taken the same dose each day. Do you take iodine or selenium? Do you know how much adding either of those would help. From my labs I can see that my T4 is near the top, but the T3 is only midrange and as you figured out, it's wasn't a free.

Also, will you please interpret my other labs and tell me if you would have any recommendations. Thanks so much...Judy

Cortisol AM , 12.2 , (4.3-22.4) (This was really somewhere between 9:30-11:00 AM)

DHEA Sulfate , 105 , (26-200)

Free DHEA + DHEA-S Pool, 6, (3-10)

Ferritin, Serum , 146 , (10-291)

Iron, Serum, 60, (35-155)

Iron Saturation, 21%, (15-55)

Transferrin 246, (200-370)

Iron Binding Capacity TIBC, 283, (250-450)

TF Testosterone, 24, (8-20) (Elevated)

Estone, 27, (26-64)

Estradiol, 9, (1-13)

Estriol, 11, (7-38)

Progesterone, 140, (5-300)

___________________________

I don't think they are going to yell at you. I do know that Dr. G is willing to Rx a combo such as what you are currently experimenting with.

It would be a good idea to tell them what you are doing right away.

Maybe send a fax or an email. That's what I did when I self-increased my sex hormones several months ago. I got the doc onboard right away. He supported me by giving me the extra refill that I needed to continue that dose.

In any case, make sure you are on a stable dose for at least six weeks before your next labs.

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[Guest guest]

I take my TriEst, progesterone, DHEA, and testosterone all in the same capsule. I was taking two capsules a day. I wanted to increase the estrogen because of an upcoming GYN appointment. That exam gets more uncomfortable every year, so I self-increased to three capsules, sent a fax to the doc after just two days. The doc responded by calling in an Rx for Estrace cream for me to use until "that" exam. Estrogen is not a "feel good" hormone for me (Testosterone is my favorite sex hormone.), but a higher dose enabled me to increase my Armour. The doc also gave me enough extra refills on the capsules to continue taking three until my appointment with him. I

would also state that I was on very low doses of the estrogens and progesterone, so a 50% increase was not really all that big. When I finally saw him in July, he kept me on exactly the same doses I was getting in the three capsules, but moved 1 mg of the estrogen into a vaginal cream, because we determined that it helped with my stress incontinence. The doc was pleased that I was able to increase my Armour to 300 mg. He had been encouraging me to do so for some time, but I was unable to tolerate the larger dose without the extra estrogen and possibly progesterone. Debbie W wrote: Jan,May I ask which hormones you increased and why?Debbie--- Jan wrote:> I don't think they are going to yell at you. I do> know that Dr. G is willing to Rx a combo such as> what you are currently experimenting with.> > It would be a good idea to tell them what you are> doing right away. > > Maybe send a fax or an email. That's what I did> when I self-increased my sex hormones several months> ago. I got the doc onboard right away. He supported> me by giving me the extra refill that I needed to> continue that dose. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I will talk to him for sure. I just wondered if it was worth bringing it up at all. He told me that I could take some kelp, but I'm waiting until after the iodine test. I just checked my multi and it has 70mcg of selenium and looking at the sources, I'm thinking that I should be ok in that department. I was hoping to bump up my conversion. It also has 150mcg of Iodine, but I don't trust a multi to deliver all it's says it can. Anyway, I just took the Eltroxin this morning and I'm feeling pretty good. I still have a bit of 'nervousness' but that usually leaves by noon. I'll discuss all of this when I see him in a couple of weeks. I'm going to call the office now and tell them what's going on. Any insight on the estrogen etc? I'm not really looking for advice as much as feedback that I can take to him. I'm clueless when it comes to all these hormones.

Thanks Jan... Judy

I would not take iodine unless the doc directs you to do so based on blood tests.

With the selenium, I would suggest you read the labels of an vitamin/minerals that you are already taking and assess your current diet for selenium before deciding to add any. The main dietary source for selenium is nuts and seeds. You do not want to be getting any more than 200 mcg from all sources. Again, talk to the doc before starting any new supplements.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jan. This is very interesting. I think I may

talk to my doc about the testosterone.

What about taking a phytoestrogen to accomplish the

same thing?

Debbie

--- Jan wrote:

> I take my TriEst, progesterone, DHEA, and

> testosterone all in the same capsule. I was taking

> two capsules a day. I wanted to increase the

> estrogen because of an upcoming GYN appointment.

> That exam gets more uncomfortable every year, so I

> self-increased to three capsules, sent a fax to the

> doc after just two days. The doc responded by

> calling in an Rx for Estrace cream for me to use

> until " that " exam. Estrogen is not a " feel good "

> hormone for me (Testosterone is my favorite sex

> hormone.), but a higher dose enabled me to increase

> my Armour.

>

> The doc also gave me enough extra refills on the

> capsules to continue taking three until my

> appointment with him.

>

> I would also state that I was on very low doses of

> the estrogens and progesterone, so a 50% increase

> was not really all that big.

>

> When I finally saw him in July, he kept me on

> exactly the same doses I was getting in the three

> capsules, but moved 1 mg of the estrogen into a

> vaginal cream, because we determined that it helped

> with my stress incontinence.

>

> The doc was pleased that I was able to increase my

> Armour to 300 mg. He had been encouraging me to do

> so for some time, but I was unable to tolerate the

> larger dose without the extra estrogen and possibly

> progesterone.

>

> Debbie W wrote:

> Jan,

>

> May I ask which hormones you increased and why?

>

> Debbie

>

> --- Jan wrote:

>

> > I don't think they are going to yell at you. I do

> > know that Dr. G is willing to Rx a combo such as

> > what you are currently experimenting with.

> >

> > It would be a good idea to tell them what you are

> > doing right away.

> >

> > Maybe send a fax or an email. That's what I did

> > when I self-increased my sex hormones several

> months

> > ago. I got the doc onboard right away. He

> supported

> > me by giving me the extra refill that I needed to

> > continue that dose.

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

If you are talking about OTC supplements, those phytoestrogens are not bioidentical and do not perform all of the cellular functions of real estrogen. All of the hormone levels need to be tested. Testosterone helps with mood, muscle tone, energy and libido. Debbie W wrote: Thanks Jan. This is very interesting. I think I maytalk to my doc about the testosterone.What about taking a phytoestrogen to accomplish thesame thing? Debbie--- Jan

wrote:> I take my TriEst, progesterone, DHEA, and> testosterone all in the same capsule. I was taking> two capsules a day. I wanted to increase the> estrogen because of an upcoming GYN appointment.> That exam gets more uncomfortable every year, so I> self-increased to three capsules, sent a fax to the> doc after just two days. The doc responded by> calling in an Rx for Estrace cream for me to use> until "that" exam. Estrogen is not a "feel good"> hormone for me (Testosterone is my favorite sex> hormone.), but a higher dose enabled me to increase> my Armour.> > The doc also gave me enough extra refills on the> capsules to continue taking three until my> appointment with him.> > I would also state that I was on very low doses of> the estrogens and progesterone, so a 50% increase> was not really all that

big.> > When I finally saw him in July, he kept me on> exactly the same doses I was getting in the three> capsules, but moved 1 mg of the estrogen into a> vaginal cream, because we determined that it helped> with my stress incontinence.> > The doc was pleased that I was able to increase my> Armour to 300 mg. He had been encouraging me to do> so for some time, but I was unable to tolerate the> larger dose without the extra estrogen and possibly> progesterone. > > Debbie W wrote:> Jan,> > May I ask which hormones you increased and why?> > Debbie> > --- Jan wrote:> > > I don't think they are going to yell at you. I do> > know that Dr. G is willing to Rx a combo such as> > what you are currently experimenting with.> > > > It would be a good idea to

tell them what you are> > doing right away. > > > > Maybe send a fax or an email. That's what I did> > when I self-increased my sex hormones several> months> > ago. I got the doc onboard right away. He> supported> > me by giving me the extra refill that I needed to> > continue that dose.

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[Guest guest]

Any change in your estrogen status will require a change in thyroid doses. Judy P wrote: I will talk to him for sure. I just wondered if it was worth bringing it up at all. He told me that I could take some kelp, but I'm waiting until after the iodine test. I just checked my multi and it has 70mcg of selenium and looking at the sources, I'm thinking that I should be ok in that department. I was hoping to bump up my conversion. It also has 150mcg of Iodine, but I don't trust a multi to deliver all it's says it can. Anyway, I just took the Eltroxin this morning and

I'm feeling pretty good. I still have a bit of 'nervousness' but that usually leaves by noon. I'll discuss all of this when I see him in a couple of weeks. I'm going to call the office now and tell them what's going on. Any insight on the estrogen etc? I'm not really looking for advice as much as feedback that I can take to him. I'm clueless when it comes to all these hormones. Thanks Jan... Judy I would not take iodine unless the doc directs you to do so based on blood tests. With the selenium, I would suggest you

read the labels of an vitamin/minerals that you are already taking and assess your current diet for selenium before deciding to add any. The main dietary source for selenium is nuts and seeds. You do not want to be getting any more than 200 mcg from all sources. Again, talk to the doc before starting any new supplements.

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

I'll talk to him about that as well. I didn't have the labs in my hands until after I left, so there are quite a few numbers that I want to ask him about, especially the high testosterone.

Thank you for the suggestion yesterday about calling and getting Dr. Gonino on board with my change in meds. I called this morning and left a message. The office just called back and said that he didn't have a problem with me switching back and that I could up the dose to 125mcg if I wanted to. That was easy. You know what's funny? I have never in my 53 years ever called a doctor's office except to make an appointment. Dr. G's office has a voicemail straight to the assistant and you just leave a question and she calls back with an answer. Who knew!!! LOL.

Any change in your estrogen status will require a change in thyroid doses.

Thanks again... Judy

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[Guest guest]

Jan,

I noticed you take the triest, I take the biest,

mainly I think because it is hard to find a doc

willing to do a high thyroid combo and have a full

knowledge of sex hormones. My question is does your

doc check for all 3 estrogens before he put you on the

triest? Have you ever been on biest and if so can you

tell the difference.

Also in your original post you stated that " The doc

was pleased that I was able to increase my Armour to

300 mg. " Was this because you felt like you needed

the increase or because of labs?

Thanks for the info.

Debbie

--- Jan wrote:

> If you are talking about OTC supplements, those

> phytoestrogens are not bioidentical and do not

> perform all of the cellular functions of real

> estrogen.

>

> All of the hormone levels need to be tested.

>

> Testosterone helps with mood, muscle tone, energy

> and libido.

>

> Debbie W wrote:

> Thanks Jan. This is very interesting. I think I

> may

> talk to my doc about the testosterone.

>

> What about taking a phytoestrogen to accomplish the

> same thing?

>

> Debbie

>

> --- Jan wrote:

>

> > I take my TriEst, progesterone, DHEA, and

> > testosterone all in the same capsule. I was taking

> > two capsules a day. I wanted to increase the

> > estrogen because of an upcoming GYN appointment.

> > That exam gets more uncomfortable every year, so I

> > self-increased to three capsules, sent a fax to

> the

> > doc after just two days. The doc responded by

> > calling in an Rx for Estrace cream for me to use

> > until " that " exam. Estrogen is not a " feel good "

> > hormone for me (Testosterone is my favorite sex

> > hormone.), but a higher dose enabled me to

> increase

> > my Armour.

> >

> > The doc also gave me enough extra refills on the

> > capsules to continue taking three until my

> > appointment with him.

> >

> > I would also state that I was on very low doses of

> > the estrogens and progesterone, so a 50% increase

> > was not really all that big.

> >

> > When I finally saw him in July, he kept me on

> > exactly the same doses I was getting in the three

> > capsules, but moved 1 mg of the estrogen into a

> > vaginal cream, because we determined that it

> helped

> > with my stress incontinence.

> >

> > The doc was pleased that I was able to increase my

> > Armour to 300 mg. He had been encouraging me to do

> > so for some time, but I was unable to tolerate the

> > larger dose without the extra estrogen and

> possibly

> > progesterone.

> >

> > Debbie W wrote:

> > Jan,

> >

> > May I ask which hormones you increased and why?

> >

> > Debbie

> >

> > --- Jan wrote:

> >

> > > I don't think they are going to yell at you. I

> do

> > > know that Dr. G is willing to Rx a combo such as

> > > what you are currently experimenting with.

> > >

> > > It would be a good idea to tell them what you

> are

> > > doing right away.

> > >

> > > Maybe send a fax or an email. That's what I did

> > > when I self-increased my sex hormones several

> > months

> > > ago. I got the doc onboard right away. He

> > supported

> > > me by giving me the extra refill that I needed

> to

> > > continue that dose.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

My doc checks estradiol and estrone, but not estriol. I have never been on BiEst. I have been on Premarin and Estratest. I just feel much better on the bio-identical hormones. When I first went to him, he started me on just progesterone and DHEA to see if I would convert them to estrogen and testosterone. In typical hypo fashion, I did not convert. So he then added TriEst and testosterone. He had encouraged me to try to increase my Armour in the past, but I had not been able to do so. I'm not sure of his reasons. But he is not a slave to tests. All I know is that I am able to lose weight on 300 mg and I was not able to do so on 240 or 270 mg. I adjust my own thyroid meds. I am dosed to tolerance. My limiting factor is my diabetes. If my T3 levels get too high, then so does my blood glucose. Debbie W wrote: Jan,I noticed you take the triest, I take the biest,mainly I think because it is hard to find a docwilling to do a high thyroid combo and have a fullknowledge of sex hormones. My question is does yourdoc check for all 3 estrogens before he put you on thetriest? Have you ever been on biest and if so can youtell the difference.Also in your original post you stated that "The docwas pleased that I was able to increase my Armour to300 mg." Was this because you

felt like you neededthe increase or because of labs?Thanks for the info. Debbie --- Jan wrote:> If you are talking about OTC supplements, those> phytoestrogens are not bioidentical and do not> perform all of the cellular functions of real> estrogen.> > All of the hormone levels need to be tested. > > Testosterone helps with mood, muscle tone, energy> and libido.> > Debbie W wrote:> Thanks Jan. This is very interesting. I think I> may> talk to my doc about the testosterone.> > What about taking a phytoestrogen to accomplish the> same thing? > > Debbie

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