RE: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

[Guest guest]

,

I live in Houston, and while I haven't had the problems you have I was very sick and couldn't find the help I needed. There may be a good doctor here for thyroid, but as yet I haven't heard about it. I was too sick to educate a doctor, so I made the trip. My DH may have thought me crazy-er for a minute, but he was very worried about me. Not only was I going to Lubbock, but he had to go too, because I was too brain fogged to get there on my own. I started seeing Dr. R. June 1st. I've made the trip three times. I just got back from my third, but I'll write that up separately. The trip is a physical hardship for me, but sooo worth it. After your initial appointment you go back in a couple of weeks for the results of labs and treatment plan. For me, after that, I was to return in three months. After this, most recent appointment he said I can come back in six months!!! Yeaaa! I'm getting better! There are plenty of bumps along the way, but, in my opinion, just go...get well.

Carol

>> I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the > recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was diagnosed > as hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or > antibodies. I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years, > which none seemed to work very well until I started taking Synthroid > for my thyroid. Even now with what my endocrinologists thinks is an > adequate dose of Synthroid I have to take Lithium Carbonate to > augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to keep from sleeping my > life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and bowel resection > because of extensive endometriosis. I though that would make me feel > a lot better but I'm still struggling with excessive tiredness all > the time.> > After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the > Houston area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston who > will Rx Armour I didn't get any resounding endorsements about any of > the doctors in the Houston area. I've have been following the posts > for the last couple months and have learned many of you travel to see > Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a doctor in > Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.> > Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time and > expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do you have > to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he recommend any > doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?> > I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the > time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what's worse > missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone soon > and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping all the > time. > > Thanks for any advice/info in advance> > Houston>

[Guest guest]

In a word: Yes.

I found I spent less time and less expense for better

care, in a well-rounded atmosphere with a doctor and

staff that are both thorough and kind.

I was nowhere near as sick as long as you were, but I

went from sort of functional to chronic, and was not

able to drive, work, clean house, cook, or write

(which is my profession and my vocation).

The symptoms were horrendous, and I saw five doctors

in a year and a half, four of which were scary-bad and

one of which was sort-of good, but had no clue about

the adrenal system or anemia.

I now can do almost all of those things most of the

time. I still have a little fatigue, but it is

mangeable, and I am going back to teaching part-time

in the spring, in addition to my current job as a a

part-time assistant editor for a publication.

I'm sure you will hear from others who currently see

him.

Best wishes--

Courtenay.

--- wrote:

> Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the

> travel time and

> expense been worth the results you're getting. How

> often do you have

> to go see him, and what about long term care? Does

> he recommend any

> doctors in Houston with a similar practice and

> belief system?

>

[Guest guest]

He is worth every single second and every single penny! I was lucky to have heard of him early on and didn't suffer too long but did suffer lots. I'm not completely well, but oh God looking back ONE year ago before I saw him, I'm much better.Courtenay wrote: In a word: Yes.I found I spent less time and less expense for bettercare, in a well-rounded atmosphere with a doctor andstaff that are both thorough and kind.I was nowhere near as sick as long as you were, but

Iwent from sort of functional to chronic, and was notable to drive, work, clean house, cook, or write(which is my profession and my vocation). The symptoms were horrendous, and I saw five doctorsin a year and a half, four of which were scary-bad andone of which was sort-of good, but had no clue aboutthe adrenal system or anemia.I now can do almost all of those things most of thetime. I still have a little fatigue, but it ismangeable, and I am going back to teaching part-timein the spring, in addition to my current job as a apart-time assistant editor for a publication. I'm sure you will hear from others who currently seehim.Best wishes--Courtenay.--- <TLHGroveHouston (DOT) rr.com> wrote:> Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the> travel time and > expense been worth the results you're

getting. How> often do you have > to go see him, and what about long term care? Does> he recommend any > doctors in Houston with a similar practice and> belief system?>

Imelda Macias

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, it has been worth it. I travel from the Dallas/Ft Worth area. My life

has dramatically changed for the better in the last 3 months (when I started

seeing Dr R). I was sleeping all the time and when I was not I was thinking

about when I would be able to go back to bed. Now I generally make it

through the entire day fine. Sometimes I take a nap but I am refreshed

after the nap. Sometimes I just lay down for 1/2 an hour and feel better.

My hypo symptoms are dramatically better including no more IBS, no more PMS

or at least minimal, my shoulder and neck that ached and ached are not

bothering me, etc, etc. Things that I did not know where hypo related.

I highly recommend him since he will not just look at your hormones, not

just thyroid. He is VERY thorough. With me he also found that I needed

adrenal support and also very deficient in B12. The B12 has helped

immensely.

Regarding the psychiatric issues, I have tried numerous antidepressants

although I'm not sure if I was really depressed or instead just literally

" sick and tired " . All of the antidepressants except serzone had ill effects

for me. Then serzone was pulled off the market. I still take a medication

for anxiety but a lot days only take it at night.

Believe me this is a huge financial commitment for my family especially

since I am now also taking my daughters. He is out-of-network on my

insurance. But as Jan says " sell you Grandmother, if you have to. "

Yes, I do feel robbed of many years of good health especially since it is

lost time with my girls. I've probably been hypothyroid since a teen and am

now 42. I just have to seize the time that I have with them now which is

much easier to do since I'm feeling better.

Kim

Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the

recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was diagnosed as

hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or antibodies.

I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years, which none seemed to

work very well until I started taking Synthroid for my thyroid. Even now

with what my endocrinologists thinks is an adequate dose of Synthroid I have

to take Lithium Carbonate to augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to

keep from sleeping my life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and

bowel resection because of extensive endometriosis. I though that would make

me feel a lot better but I'm still struggling with excessive tiredness all

the time.

After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the Houston

area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston who will Rx Armour I

didn't get any resounding endorsements about any of the doctors in the

Houston area. I've have been following the posts for the last couple months

and have learned many of you travel to see Dr. in Lubbock. When I

mentioned going to see a doctor in Lubbock to my husband he thought I was

nuts.

Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time and expense

been worth the results you're getting. How often do you have to go see him,

and what about long term care? Does he recommend any doctors in Houston

with a similar practice and belief system?

I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the time. I

feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what's worse missing out on

my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone soon and all I'll remember

is being tired and crabby and sleeping all the time.

Thanks for any advice/info in advance

Houston

[Guest guest]

- I, too, did not have your extensive health issues, but I

was falling apart in 2004 when I was on Levoxyl for thyroid and the

Vivelle Dot patch for estrogen, and clonazepam (anti-anxiety) and

nortriptyline (anti-depressant) for anxiety and sleep issues. I quit

working, was more than exhausted, was sleeping very poorly, and had

extreme anxiety. My primary care doc gave up, pretty much thought I

was a depression/anxiety head case who wouldn't face up to it, and I

didn't get good results from a specialty group here in Dallas I went

to. I, too, had joined this group and read posts before I decided to

go see Dr. . I know how you feel. How can there be such a

shortage of docs who understand the whole body system and can get me

well? It's beyond amazing to me, and I can only surmise that the

docs of today have learned to treat us as separate parts which all

need specialists and special meds, since specialization looks more

interesting and more money is generated if you " unbundle " the system

and charge for everything separately. But, along the way, the docs

have forgotten to look for root causes, or they are not taught to do

this anymore. The insurance companies want quick fixes and we

patients want quick fixes, too. And I think the pharmaceutical

companies have incredible influence in medical school and how

protocols and treatments are developed. It's a broken system, IMO.

*climbs down off soap box* - all that being said, when I first went

to Lubbock, I had more immediate confidence in Dr. when I

met him than with any doc I've seen in the past 25 years. I loved

the fact that his background is in biochemistry and research in

steriods and reproductive endocrinology, and I really connected with

the fact that he is hypo, his wife has Hashi's, and a child is hypo.

My husband, who got his degree in gerontology at UT Southwestern

Medical Center at Dallas, where Dr. R did research and taught, told

me that most med students get diddly-squat in biochemistry. I don't

think I've read about one doc on this board with the background of

Dr. R. Add to that the fact that (per Carol's post awhile back) he's

treated over 1500 thyroid patients and helped many who couldn't find

relief before. It's often not just about prescribing Armour to

someone who does better on it. It's about many things that can be

deficient or out of balance in your body, like other hormones,

vitamins and minerals, and other stuff that other docs don't put all

together. And they are all needed together to work well together.

They need to be orchestrated by someone who knows how to do it.

My DH was relieved when I told him I wanted to see Dr. R. He was

worried sick over my deteriorating condition. He had read many of

the posts about Dr. R which I forwarded to him. He was pre-sold. I

don't consider it an inconvenience any more that I/we must drive to

Lubbock. When you feel like cr*p, it seems an impossible task. But

in time, you feel better and you are glad to go. I had my first

appointment and had to go back for the consult and blood test read

out. Then I was told to return in 6 months. Then it was 9 months.

And now it's a year. This last trip was done in one day, since we're

only 5 hours away.

It's absolutely been worth the money and time. I've constantly

improved. But it's been slow. A lot more is wrong with me than just

my thyroid levels. So it all takes time. But I'm further along than

I thought I would be at this time. Our credit cards have handled the

costs, and that's just the way it has to be. I couldn't see any

alternative and have been totally happy with the results so far. Any

problems I've had have been of my own making (impatience, doing too

much too soon, not eating right) or they have been handled well by

the staff when I've called the office.

My DH finally decided to see Dr. R and went with me last week. He's

not been feeling well and has low body temps, so we are suspicious.

DH sees a lot of docs in our business (long term care management and

home care) and he thinks a lot of Dr. R.

No, he doesn't have any physicians he refers to that I know of. And

as far as long term care, I don't exactly what you mean, but I had

to have day time help for a few weeks when I transitioned to the new

regimen. No family or friends who could pitch in. After that I just

cut back drastically on what I did (fix food, rest, take meds on

time, repeat) until I felt I could do more. It's been a pattern of

slow improvement and then a slide back for awhile, but the general

move is upward. I do more now and when I'm tired I recover faster.

This is what I was told would happen.

I would also agree with everything that Courtenay, Kim, and

Carol (and anyone else I might have forgotten) have said about their

experiences seeing Dr. R.

Please understand this is all JMHO. I am not a medical type at all.

Sara

>

I've have been following the posts

> for the last couple months and have learned many of you travel to

see

> Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a doctor in

> Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.

>

> Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time

and

> expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do you

have

> to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he recommend

any

> doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?

>

> I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the

> time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what's

worse

> missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone

soon

> and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping all

the

> time.

>

> Thanks for any advice/info in advance

>

> Houston

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this info, Jan. Makes me feel even more fortunate to have

found this group and the doc.

Sara

> >

> > I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the

> > recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was

diagnosed

> > as hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or

> > antibodies. I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years,

> > which none seemed to work very well until I started taking

Synthroid

> > for my thyroid. Even now with what my endocrinologists thinks is

an

> > adequate dose of Synthroid I have to take Lithium Carbonate to

> > augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to keep from sleeping my

> > life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and bowel

resection

> > because of extensive endometriosis. I though that would make me

feel

> > a lot better but I'm still struggling with excessive tiredness

all

> > the time.

> >

> > After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the

> > Houston area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston

who

> > will Rx Armour I didn't get any resounding endorsements about

any of

> > the doctors in the Houston area. I've have been following the

posts

> > for the last couple months and have learned many of you travel

to see

> > Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a doctor

in

> > Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.

> >

> > Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time

and

> > expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do you

have

> > to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he recommend

any

> > doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?

> >

> > I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the

> > time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what's

worse

> > missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone

soon

> > and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping all

the

> > time.

> >

> > Thanks for any advice/info in advance

> >

> > Houston

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-

What endo are you seeing in Houston? I see Dr. L . I feel

like crap pretty much too and feel like I am not fully engaged and

there for my children which depresses me so much. I am trying to

get my synthroid regulated- first it was too little synthroid, now

it is too much, so I have gone back to my original dose. I also

have been having trouble with mild anemia and high ferritin. I dont

know what the heck is going on with me. I think the thyroid is

related to alot of things. I too am wondering about going to

Lubbock. I just moved here to houston a few months ago. How far is

Lubbock from here??

Val

-- In Texas_Thyroid_Groups , " "

wrote:

>

> ,

> I asked my endocronoligist about the lithium when I first started

> taking it, and she just shrugged it off. I don't really like

taking

> the lithium because of its side effects, but it has been the only

way

> to keep my anti-depressants working. Although, I truly believe

that

> my depression has been caused by other health issues and that is

why

> it took so long to find meds that would work for me (nearly 7

years

> to find the right combination of meds that would work for more

than 6

> months and didn't have detrimental side effects).

>

> I am hoping if I go see Dr. he can find out whats really

> going on with me and then I eventually won't have to take the meds

> for depression.

>

> Thanks for your feedback.

>

>

>

>

> Out of all drugs that affect the uptake of the thyroid hormones,

> Lithium is the poster child for it. I know that some people need

> this added to their drug regimen, but it can be totally

detrimental

> to it. What does your doctor say about this, since it is a very

well

> known fact, even among those doctors who don't know that much

about

> the thyroid?

>

>

>

> Questions for those who travel to

> see Dr.

>

> I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the

> recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was diagnosed

> as hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or

> antibodies. I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years,

> which none seemed to work very well until I started taking

> Synthroid for my thyroid. Even now with what my endocrinologists

> thinks is an adequate dose of Synthroid I have to take Lithium

> Carbonate to augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to keep from

> sleeping my life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and

> bowel resection because of extensive endometriosis. I though that

> would make me feel a lot better but I'm still struggling with

> excessive tiredness all the time.

>

> After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the

> Houston area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston who

> will Rx Armour I didn't get any resounding endorsements about any

> of the doctors in the Houston area. I've have been following the

> posts for the last couple months and have learned many of you

travel

> to see Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a

> doctor in Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.

>

> Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time

> and expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do

you

> have to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he

recommend

> any doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?

>

> I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the

> time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what's

> worse missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and

gone

> soon and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping

all

> the time.

>

> Thanks for any advice/info in advance

>

> Houston

>

[Guest guest]

Me too.

Courtenay.

--- rgrprop wrote:

> Thanks for this info, Jan. Makes me feel even more

> fortunate to have

> found this group and the doc.

>

> Sara

>

>

[Guest guest]

As soon as I started Armour, I was able to downsize myself on the

Paxil. I was taking the generic, 20 mgs. Went to 15 (split a pill)

the second week on Armour and down to 10 three weeks later, am now on 5

mg. I'm looking forward to the time when I'll be off it altogether!

Marti

> ,

>

> Depression is a major symptom of hypo.  I read somewhere that when

> your thyroid doesn't work right, nothing works right.  I feel like a

> complete example of that.  I've been on Paxil CR for about four years,

> but I had lingering symptoms of depression.  I've now been on Armour

> for four months and I finally feel like all my depression symptoms are

> gone.  I still get confused easily and my memory is terrible.  The Doc

> said not to try to go off the Paxil yet.  It's too soon.  I'm not

> completely well, and probably won't be for some time, but I feel so

> much better than I did on $ynthroid. 

[Guest guest]

Carol,

I don't think that anti-depressants can or should be quit in a cold

turkey manner. Everything I have read indicates that one needs to

taper off of those slowly.

It's so great that you are feeling better on Armour. Congrats!

(Oink!)

>

>

> ,

>

> Depression is a major symptom of hypo. I read somewhere that when

your

> thyroid doesn't work right, nothing works right. I feel like a

complete

> example of that. I've been on Paxil CR for about four years, but I

had

> lingering symptoms of depression. I've now been on Armour for four

> months and I finally feel like all my depression symptoms are

gone. I

> still get confused easily and my memory is terrible. The Doc said

not

> to try to go off the Paxil yet. It's too soon. I'm not completely

> well, and probably won't be for some time, but I feel so much better

> than I did on $ynthroid.

>

> Carol

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have been thinking how to answer your post for a couple of days.

There is no better way to say that you have wasted enough precious

time already, time which you won't get back for yourself or your

family. If you continue to be undertreated, which sounds like it

might be the case, you will probably continue to feel worse.

Did you say you are seeing an endocrinologist and he/she has not

tested for Hashi's antibodies? Why not???

A few years ago I was so sick, so very sick that all I could do was

go to work (only because I HAD to) and just lay in bed the rest of

the time. I could barely function. My antibodies were in the

thousands. I had an endocrinologist tell me he didn't " care " what my

antibodies were. Say what? I found Jan and the Texas thyroid forum

through Shomon's site and thank God for that and her

recommendation of Dr. . I started making the trip to Lubbock

from San a few years ago. Last year we moved to Wyoming and

I still travel to Lubbock to see Dr. R. and always will no matter

what it takes.

I'm not 100% of my young healthy self and maybe never will be but I

am happier, feeling better, and more functional. It takes time,

especially if you have the autoimmune factor which, in my opinion,

you really should find out whether you do or not. And Dr.

can help you with your other hormones, if need be, especially since

you underwent a complete hysterectomy.

Best of luck to you and I hope you decide to go, for yourself and for

your family!

>

> I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the

> recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was diagnosed

> as hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or

> antibodies. I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years,

> which none seemed to work very well until I started taking

Synthroid

> for my thyroid. Even now with what my endocrinologists thinks is an

> adequate dose of Synthroid I have to take Lithium Carbonate to

> augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to keep from sleeping my

> life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and bowel

resection

> because of extensive endometriosis. I though that would make me

feel

> a lot better but I'm still struggling with excessive tiredness all

> the time.

>

> After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the

> Houston area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston who

> will Rx Armour I didn't get any resounding endorsements about any

of

> the doctors in the Houston area. I've have been following the posts

> for the last couple months and have learned many of you travel to

see

> Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a doctor in

> Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.

>

> Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time

and

> expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do you

have

> to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he recommend

any

> doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?

>

> I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the

> time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what's

worse

> missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone soon

> and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping all

the

> time.

>

> Thanks for any advice/info in advance

>

> Houston

>

[Guest guest]

Same here. At the first appt, he said to wait to get off my a-d and a-

a meds. I'm just starting to have more stamina and peace, so now I can

see how much healing has to take place before you try to do this.

Can't even think about it when your adrenals are shot. I just got an

ok to try a tiny decrease in my a-d, since it's so sedating and

increases appetite and sweets cravings, and weight, but I'm going to

go very slowly and have ordered compounded capsules at just 2mg less

to try for a few months. I have to make sure my sleep doesn't break up

again. I'm hoping that being able to get out and walk some will help

support this as I do it.

>

The Doc said not

> to try to go off the Paxil yet. It's too soon. I'm not completely

> well, and probably won't be for some time, but I feel so much better

> than I did on $ynthroid.

>

> Carol

[Guest guest]

Yes, go very very slow. Even if it takes a couple of months or so. I became suicidial when I stopped celexa. Had to wake my husband up so he could watch over me as I was very interested in the best way to kill myself for about 48 hours or so. Scary, huh? He never left my side and it stoppped.

Worse though were the electrical shocks that I felt in my brain for 3 months. Very painful and scary.

Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

Thanks, ,

Yes, I think you're right. Slow tapering is probably the way to go. I've heard terrible stories of people trying to get off it. I'm in no hurry.

Carol

> >> > > > ,> > > > Depression is a major symptom of hypo. I read somewhere that when > your> > thyroid doesn't work right, nothing works right. I feel like a > complete> > example of that. I've been on Paxil CR for about four years, but I > had> > lingering symptoms of depression. I've now been on Armour for four> > months an

[Guest guest]

I've done some research on local docs and came across Dr. Manzanero's

(sp?) info. I called the facility and felt like I was being sold. It

was really disturbing. Bascially, you pay a flat fee up from which I

thik was about $2000. This include two appointments and a few other

things but none of the supplements/herbs and no follow-up visits. Is

that normal for this type of provider? Seemed odd to me....

[Guest guest]

"Normal" is not the word I would use, but it is not unusual. Dr. lin in Austin does something similar. This is "boutique medicine." Depending on what all is included in your retainer fee, it may or may not be a good deal. If you would like to travel to Lubbock to see Dr. , as many of us do, he does none of the above. He does run about $1500 worth of tests, including sex, thyroid, and adrenal hormones among other things. sossityb wrote: I've done some research on local docs and came across Dr. Manzanero's (sp?) info. I called the facility and felt like I was being sold. It

was really disturbing. Bascially, you pay a flat fee up from which I thik was about $2000. This include two appointments and a few other things but none of the supplements/herbs and no follow-up visits. Is that normal for this type of provider? Seemed odd to me....

Sponsored LinkGet an Online or Campus degree - Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's -in less than one year.

[Guest guest]

After only a few weeks on Paxil, after I quit taking it, every time

I moved my head my eyes would see the smooth movement as little

jerks instead of one smooth motion. Dr.'s don't even know the long

term effects of these drugs on the brain. Very scary indeed.

>

> I had the shocks in my arms and hands from Paxil. The doctor did

not

> mention anything when he started me on it. I had no idea it was

related to

> the Paxil. When I withdrew from it the shocks came back. What

fun!

>

> Kim

>

[Guest guest]

Seems too odd to me also, though I know that Dr. Manzanero has had very good

results, or rather the people he has treated, but I really don't get it

either. If a gazillion complicated unusual tests are being run, then I see

it, but from what I've seen of what many of these tests cost at HealthCheck,

then no, I don't get it, if most of these are the same tests. Now, if he's

doing an inhouse thyroid ultrasound or scan, that's another whole ballgame

to me. Those are already very expensive things, unless certain orgs are

running a mass type special for the public. It is easy to say " pay whatever

it takes to get well " , but many of us don't have that option, even with

certain types of insurance. I will NEVER be able to pay up front and THEN

file insurance, it just doesn't work that way for ME.

Re: Questions for those who travel to see

Dr.

> I've done some research on local docs and came across Dr. Manzanero's

> (sp?) info. I called the facility and felt like I was being sold. It

> was really disturbing. Bascially, you pay a flat fee up from which I

> thik was about $2000. This include two appointments and a few other

> things but none of the supplements/herbs and no follow-up visits. Is

> that normal for this type of provider? Seemed odd to me....

[Guest guest]

We already know how many of the truths have been hidden by Big Pharma,

concerning the testing arenas for a whole lot of these drugs, as they just

keep getting slapped on the hands for one drug or another. The problem is

that they haven't been disciplinced for hundreds of drugs that are still out

here on the market. One thing I've always had a big question about is that

How Normal Is It When you increase ONLY specific types of serotonin(s) in

the brain, without being uniform about it. After all, that's what these ADs

are called, Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors. Just supposing that,

when one is increased in proportion to another, at some particular point in

the whole process, at a time when maybe it really shouldn't be, certain

types of nerve reactions may be inevitable or possibly very dangerous. Of

course, the brain chem was already messed up from hypo or whatever, but just

supposing that fooling around with it in a very direct unnatural way,

without looking for the true base cause of it actually messes up things even

more. This is a supposition of mine.

Re: Questions for those who travel to see

Dr.

> After only a few weeks on Paxil, after I quit taking it, every time

> I moved my head my eyes would see the smooth movement as little

> jerks instead of one smooth motion. Dr.'s don't even know the long

> term effects of these drugs on the brain. Very scary indeed.

>

>

>

>

>>

>> I had the shocks in my arms and hands from Paxil. The doctor did

> not

>> mention anything when he started me on it. I had no idea it was

> related to

>> the Paxil. When I withdrew from it the shocks came back. What

> fun!

>>

>> Kim

>>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jan

The only testing I've done for heavy metals is a very comprehensive hair analysis test. It showed no heavy metals at all. Interestingly, though, it showed severe adrenal exhaustion just like all the saliva tests I've had do. Blood test shows normal cortisol,even though I only have one adrenal gland.

I do believe that blood levels aren't the whole story for me. I am taking all the Armour and DHEA that Dr. R. allows. He won't prescribe testosterone or cortisol since those blood levels are normal. So, probably, I'm one of those that things won't ever be normal for.

Course the big thing for me is pain. Unlike many people, my pain didn't go away with Armour. Dr. R. had me do blood tests 7 weeks ago for free cortisol and other stuff, but he hasn't talked with me about it. I've called several times but keeps saying he needs to talk to Dr. R. I wonder how long it takes?

Its all so frustrating, but I know I'm not alone!

Helen

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:09 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

With women, the biochemistry is not the whole picture.

And blood levels do not always reflect tissue levels of hormones. Have you tried higher doses of the hormones to see if any resistance could be overcome. . . . . without growing a beard?

Also, when you have been hypothyroid or hypoadrenal for a very long time, some things never do return to normal.

The other thing you might want to look into is testing for heavy metals and possible chelation therapy. Helen wrote:

Maybe at 62, I'm too old for libido? My hormonal levels are good, but still no LIbido. Dr. R. doesn't have any suggestions for me.

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:18 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

There is not another doc in Texas who has Dr. R's breadth of knowledge and understanding of how the hormones all work together. Manzanero in Austin is the only one who even comes close.

There may be half a dozen other docs in the whole country who might be considered his peers when it comes to treating thyroid and other hormonal disorders: Brownstein in Michigan, Woodhouse in Michigan, Woliner in Florida, Runels in Alabama, Friedman in California, maybe Shames in California, maybe Boyle in Connecticut, maybe in Indiana.

In the long run, the husbands are usually Dr. 's chief supporters, as their wives acquire L*I*B*I*D*O* on his treatment protocols. . . . .no aphrodisiacs, just normalization of all hormone levels. . . . .

>> I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the > recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was diagnosed > as hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or > antibodies. I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years, > which none seemed to work very well until I started taking Synthroid > for my thyroid. Even now with what my endocrinologists thinks is an > adequate dose of Synthroid I have to take Lithium Carbonate to > augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to keep from sleeping my > life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and bowel resection > because of extensive endometriosis. I though that would make me feel > a lot better but I'm still struggling with excessive tiredness all > the time.> > After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the > Houston area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston who > will Rx Armour I didn't get any resounding endorsements about any of > the doctors in the Houston area. I've have been following the posts > for the last couple months and have learned many of you travel to see > Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a doctor in > Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.> > Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time and > expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do you have > to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he recommend any > doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?> > I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the > time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what! 's worse > missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone soon > and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping all the > time. > > Thanks for any advice/info in advance> > Houston

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Seven weeks seems like an awfully long time to get results on a blood test. Seems like you may need to be more aggressive about this and remind that you've already called several times now. Why would this take so long?

RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

Thanks, Jan

The only testing I've done for heavy metals is a very comprehensive hair analysis test. It showed no heavy metals at all. Interestingly, though, it showed severe adrenal exhaustion just like all the saliva tests I've had do. Blood test shows normal cortisol,even though I only have one adrenal gland.

I do believe that blood levels aren't the whole story for me. I am taking all the Armour and DHEA that Dr. R. allows. He won't prescribe testosterone or cortisol since those blood levels are normal. So, probably, I'm one of those that things won't ever be normal for.

Course the big thing for me is pain. Unlike many people, my pain didn't go away with Armour. Dr. R. had me do blood tests 7 weeks ago for free cortisol and other stuff, but he hasn't talked with me about it. I've called several times but keeps saying he needs to talk to Dr. R. I wonder how long it takes?

Its all so frustrating, but I know I'm not alone!

Helen

[Guest guest]

So you may have tissue resistance to cortisol, perhaps at the receptor level. I am not saying you should do this, but if I wanted to try something that my doc will not usually allow, I would put my request in writing, stating what I would like to try "as an experiment" for a set period of time, perhaps 3-6 months. I would include some kind of "hold blameless statement" with which to cover his legal/medical derriere and a promise to document on a daily basis your dosing and symptoms. In your particular case, I would cite the discrepancies between blood and saliva (and hair) tests as evidence that the hormones are not getting from the blood into the cells. If there are

urine tests available, I would want those tests, too. You might also want to consider seeking out a doc who uses and believes in the saliva and hair tests. Solvents, insecticides and other environmental toxins can cause damage to receptors and leave no evidence except the damage itself. Helen wrote: Thanks, Jan The only testing I've done for heavy metals is a very comprehensive hair analysis test. It showed no heavy metals at all. Interestingly, though, it showed severe adrenal exhaustion just like all the saliva tests I've had do. Blood test shows normal cortisol,even though I only have one adrenal gland. I do believe that blood levels aren't the whole story for me. I am taking all the Armour and DHEA that Dr. R. allows. He won't prescribe testosterone or cortisol since those blood levels are

normal. So, probably, I'm one of those that things won't ever be normal for. Course the big thing for me is pain. Unlike many people, my pain didn't go away with Armour. Dr. R. had me do blood tests 7 weeks ago for free cortisol and other stuff, but he hasn't talked with me about it. I've called several times but keeps saying he needs to talk to Dr. R. I wonder how long it takes? Its all so frustrating, but I know I'm not alone! Helen From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:09 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr. With women, the biochemistry is not the whole picture. And blood levels do not always reflect tissue levels of hormones. Have you tried higher doses of the hormones to see if any resistance could be overcome. . . . . without growing a beard? Also, when you have been hypothyroid or hypoadrenal for a very long time, some things never do return to normal. The other thing you might want to look into is testing for heavy metals and possible chelation therapy. Helen wrote: Maybe at 62, I'm too old for libido? My hormonal levels are good, but still no LIbido. Dr. R. doesn't have any suggestions for me. __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I had a consultation phone call with Dr. Lowe and he said that too; that it sounded like I had a resistance to cortisol at the receptor level.

Your suggestion is a good one that I may try in the future. I hadn't thought of all the statements you've thought of, but those are good.

Thanks, Jan!!

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:24 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

So you may have tissue resistance to cortisol, perhaps at the receptor level.

I am not saying you should do this, but if I wanted to try something that my doc will not usually allow, I would put my request in writing, stating what I would like to try "as an experiment" for a set period of time, perhaps 3-6 months. I would include some kind of "hold blameless statement" with which to cover his legal/medical derriere and a promise to document on a daily basis your dosing and symptoms.

In your particular case, I would cite the discrepancies between blood and saliva (and hair) tests as evidence that the hormones are not getting from the blood into the cells. If there are urine tests available, I would want those tests, too.

You might also want to consider seeking out a doc who uses and believes in the saliva and hair tests.

Solvents, insecticides and other environmental toxins can cause damage to receptors and leave no evidence except the damage itself.

Helen wrote:

Thanks, Jan

The only testing I've done for heavy metals is a very comprehensive hair analysis test. It showed no heavy metals at all. Interestingly, though, it showed severe adrenal exhaustion just like all the saliva tests I've had do. Blood test shows normal cortisol,even though I only have one adrenal gland.

I do believe that blood levels aren't the whole story for me. I am taking all the Armour and DHEA that Dr. R. allows. He won't prescribe testosterone or cortisol since those blood levels are normal. So, probably, I'm one of those that things won't ever be normal for.

Course the big thing for me is pain. Unlike many people, my pain didn't go away with Armour. Dr. R. had me do blood tests 7 weeks ago for free cortisol and other stuff, but he hasn't talked with me about it. I've called several times but keeps saying he needs to talk to Dr. R. I wonder how long it takes?

Its all so frustrating, but I know I'm not alone!

Helen

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:09 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

With women, the biochemistry is not the whole picture.

And blood levels do not always reflect tissue levels of hormones. Have you tried higher doses of the hormones to see if any resistance could be overcome. . . . . without growing a beard?

Also, when you have been hypothyroid or hypoadrenal for a very long time, some things never do return to normal.

The other thing you might want to look into is testing for heavy metals and possible chelation therapy. Helen wrote:

Maybe at 62, I'm too old for libido? My hormonal levels are good, but still no LIbido. Dr. R. doesn't have any suggestions for me.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

My new GYN says that when we get older we do lose it, and it is more of a mental game. I think some of us just don't have it. I know my stress and tiredness have more to do with it for me than anything.)

RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

Maybe at 62, I'm too old for libido? My hormonal levels are good, but still no LIbido. Dr. R. doesn't have any suggestions for me.

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:18 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr.

There is not another doc in Texas who has Dr. R's breadth of knowledge and understanding of how the hormones all work together. Manzanero in Austin is the only one who even comes close.

There may be half a dozen other docs in the whole country who might be considered his peers when it comes to treating thyroid and other hormonal disorders: Brownstein in Michigan, Woodhouse in Michigan, Woliner in Florida, Runels in Alabama, Friedman in California, maybe Shames in California, maybe Boyle in Connecticut, maybe in Indiana.

In the long run, the husbands are usually Dr. 's chief supporters, as their wives acquire L*I*B*I*D*O* on his treatment protocols. . . . .no aphrodisiacs, just normalization of all hormone levels. . . . .

>> I'm fairly new to the group, joined a couple of months ago on the > recommendation of the Houston Endometriosis Group. I was diagnosed > as hypothyroid about 8 years ago, but never tested for Hashi's or > antibodies. I've been on meds for depression for about 10 years, > which none seemed to work very well until I started taking Synthroid > for my thyroid. Even now with what my endocrinologists thinks is an > adequate dose of Synthroid I have to take Lithium Carbonate to > augment my antidepressants, and Adderall to keep from sleeping my > life away. Last March I had a total hysterectomy and bowel resection > because of extensive endometriosis. I though that would make me feel > a lot better but

I'm still struggling with excessive tiredness all > the time.> > After first joining I asked about Doctor Recommendations in the > Houston area, and although I received names of Docs in Houston who > will Rx Armour I didn't get any resounding endorsements about any of > the doctors in the Houston area. I've have been following the posts > for the last couple months and have learned many of you travel to see > Dr. in Lubbock. When I mentioned going to see a doctor in > Lubbock to my husband he thought I was nuts.> > Anyway for those of you who see Dr. has the travel time and > expense been worth the results you're getting. How often do you have > to go see him, and what about long term care? Does he recommend any > doctors in Houston with a similar practice and belief system?> > I am just so frustrated and fed up with feeling like crap all the

> time. I feel like I'm totally missing out on my life and what! 's worse > missing out on my children's lives, they'll be grown and gone soon > and all I'll remember is being tired and crabby and sleeping all the > time. > > Thanks for any advice/info in advance> > Houston>

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Guest guest]

I would add one other thing. The cortisol resistance is what I would work on first, as cortisol is crucial for getting the other hormones into the cells.Helen wrote: I had a consultation phone call with Dr. Lowe and he said that too; that it sounded like I had a resistance to cortisol at the receptor level. Your suggestion is a good one that I may try in the

future. I hadn't thought of all the statements you've thought of, but those are good. Thanks, Jan!! From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:24 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr. So you may have tissue resistance to

cortisol, perhaps at the receptor level. I am not saying you should do this, but if I wanted to try something that my doc will not usually allow, I would put my request in writing, stating what I would like to try "as an experiment" for a set period of time, perhaps 3-6 months. I would include some kind of "hold blameless statement" with which to cover his legal/medical derriere and a promise to document on a daily basis your dosing and symptoms. In your particular case, I would cite the discrepancies between blood and saliva (and hair) tests as evidence that the hormones are not getting from the blood into the cells. If there are urine tests available, I would want those tests,

too. You might also want to consider seeking out a doc who uses and believes in the saliva and hair tests. Solvents, insecticides and other environmental toxins can cause damage to receptors and leave no evidence except the damage itself. Helen wrote: Thanks, Jan The only testing I've done for heavy metals is a very comprehensive hair analysis test. It showed no heavy metals at all. Interestingly, though, it showed severe adrenal exhaustion just like all the saliva tests I've had do. Blood test shows normal cortisol,even though I only have one adrenal gland. I do believe that blood levels aren't the whole story for me. I am taking all the Armour and DHEA that Dr. R. allows. He won't prescribe testosterone or cortisol since those blood levels are normal.

So, probably, I'm one of those that things won't ever be normal for. Course the big thing for me is pain. Unlike many people, my pain didn't go away with Armour. Dr. R. had me do blood tests 7 weeks ago for free cortisol and other stuff, but he hasn't talked with me about it. I've called several times but keeps saying he needs to talk to Dr. R. I wonder how long it takes? Its all so frustrating, but I know I'm not alone! Helen From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jan Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:09 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: RE: Re: Questions for those who travel to see Dr. With women, the biochemistry is not the whole picture. And blood levels do not always reflect tissue levels of hormones. Have you tried higher doses of the hormones to see if any resistance could be overcome. . . . . without growing a beard? Also, when you have been hypothyroid or hypoadrenal for a very long time, some things never do return to normal. The other thing you might want to look into is testing for heavy metals and possible chelation therapy. Helen wrote: Maybe at 62, I'm too old for libido? My hormonal levels are good, but still no LIbido. Dr. R. doesn't have any suggestions for me.

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

When I was with DH#2, he took so many drugs that he couldn't do it and

didn't even think about it. I put it in the back of my mind as well,

and could've sworn my libido was gone by the time he died. When I

remarried DH#1, however, I decided to give it a try again even though I

wasn't that enthused, and was surprised to find that the more we did

it, the better it got... TMI, I am sure.

Marti

> My new GYN says that when we get older we do lose it, and it is more

> of a mental game. I think some of us just don't have it. I know my

> stress and tiredness have more to do with it for me than anything.)

> RE: Re: Questions for those who travel

> to see Dr.

>

> Maybe at 62, I'm too old for libido?  My hormonal levels are good, but

> still no LIbido.  Dr. R. doesn't have any suggestions for me. 

>