Petra it's FOG!

[Guest guest]

Petra, I would recommend that you read some books on codependency such

as Codependent No More and " Emotional Blackmail " . The suicide thing is

a classic way of controlling you. Mine has tried that one and this list

helped me get over that fear. Nadas like to use fear, obligation and

guilt to control...this is emotional abuse. She is making you

responsible for her feelings and you aren't. You may have given your

gift out of obigation rather than Love...when you have to keep someone

happy, then you are hooked into obligation and you CAN " T give out of

love...love is freely given. I'm beginning to think that it may be

harder for the " good " child to sever the realtionship than the " bad "

child, but neither of them has a healthy mother that lets them grow up

and become independent. You have the right to say what you will accept

and not accept and you are not responsible for how she handles

that...she is! For instance, at Christmas if my child chooses to go

somewhere rather than come home, then I may be unhappy...but it's my

wants that are being denied and I have to accept that and deal with it.

We have limits on where we can be at one time or what we can spend or

whatever and we have to accept those boundaries on ourselves and others.

Nadas are like little children...they want it when they want it and

will throw a tantrum to get it.

Here's a quote from " Changes that Heal " .. " As adults, we can never blame

anyone for what we choose to do. If others try to make us feel guilty

for a choice we make, we must choose our own attitudes about that. We

must realize that we choose the attitudes that make us feel guilty. If

someone tries to manipulate me, and I know that manipulation is evil,

then I will not feel guilty for saying no. Instead, I will think, my

aren't they being controlling? But, if I believe that I should keep

them happy, I'll think, I should do what they want, and I'm guilty if I

don't. The point is, I can choose whether or not I will continue in the

attitudes that make me feel guilty, or I can choose to develop new

attitudes that will not allow for guilt manipulation. "

It's taken me two years of work on this list and with a therapist to be

able to even understand this completely, but it only took about 6mos to

understand I didn't have to feel guilty. It still jumps up once in

awhile, but now I recognize the nada voice behind the guilt and can

choose my own response and not hers.

Ilene

Petra wrote:

> Hi Ilene,

>

> Thanks for responding! You're right, the Christmas gift was something I

> agonized over. A year ago, my relationship with Nada still seemed quite

> normal and these developments of her living in the Netherlands with

> another woman are very recent. I'm still coming to grips with it and

> the vicious way she is treating all of us, not just my dad.

> I don't find it all as cut and dry as it seems on paper. She and I were

> very close, over the past year I've come to realize that this behavior

> is not something of just the past year, but the wounds are fresh.

> And yes, I do love her, but I don't want to talk to her, because a

> normal conversation is not possible. I've tried that, but the

> boundaries I try to set keep being ignored.

> As for my nephew, I don't know if " mad " was the right word, it just irks

> me, that she can get away with all this and we're still tiptoeing around

> her, as if she's not hurting everyone left and right.

> What gets me, is that, even after reading SWOE, we're still too afraid

> of her to put our foot down and say " to here and no further " , I wish I

> knew what wisdom was in this case, partly, I'm afraid (and I know my

> siblings are too), that what I do will finally drive her to commit

> suicide. She has threatened this all through my life and part of me

> fears to be the reason behind it (and suicide does run in her family in

> a major way, so it's not unlikely she would do it).

>

> Petra (mailto:Petra@...) Homepage: http://www.kjsl.com/~petra

> <http://www.kjsl.com/%7Epetra>

> Maaammmiiieee!!! to Katja ('90), Kai ('92) and Saskia ('95)

>

> ~~Exercise is important, but too many people confine their exercise to

> jumping to conclusions, running up bills, stretching the truth, bending

> over backward, sidestepping responsibility and pushing their luck.~~

>

>

> First two questions...why did you reengage her with a Christmas

> present? You had been saying " no I don't want to talk to you " and now

> " I want to send you a Gift because I " love " you " ? You need to decide

> what your boundaries are and stick to them to avoid confusing the

> situation. Second, why does it make you mad that she didn't visit your

> nephew? We all have choices and she made her choice - we can't be mad

> at some one for making a choice any more than they should be mad at us

> for doing the same! She should not be allowed to talk to your children

> if she is lying. My kids don't talk to my husband's mother for those

> reasons...we don't trust her and her view of things. They don't talk to

>

> mine either except by mail and they have very sound discernment.

> Unfortunately, in the early stages of healing ourselves we want to take

> our BP and chain them up until they admit to their wrong - doings, but

> life doesn't work that way. As SWOE says, we have to set boundaries and

>

> what we are actually doing is changing our responses and our

> behaviors....not theirs! You can say most anything to a nada, but

> they'll just turn it around and twist is and give it back to you with

> hate. You can write a letter if you think it will help you, but don't

> expect it to change anything...nadas don't do the " normal " thing.

> If you pointed out that it hurt when she stepped on your toes, she'd

> just say that you shouldn't have had your toes there! I hope you

> understand what I'm trying to say. Good luck!

> Ilene

>

> Petra wrote:

>

> > Hello everyone,

> >

> > I read this group, but have very little time to participate,

> > unfortunately. Now I need some advice though. It is complicated,

> > because it involves 2 languages, as I'm Dutch and communicate with

> Nada

> > in Dutch.

> > Despite all having read SWOE, I find my dad, my siblings and I are

> still

> > all walking on eggshells. Mainly because we feel there is no use in

> > making our true feelings/needs/wants known, as they'll be ignored

> > anyway.

> > My Nada moved to the Netherlands to live with another woman in

> > September. I have not talked to her on the phone since late

> September,

> > as I've refused to answer her calls (she can't stand that). I have

> > however sent her a Christmas gift, which somehow sent her the message

> > that all was well again (my fear already, but I was the all good child

> > for 40 years, one does not just scratch that).

> > Anyway, we've been emailing, with me biting my tongue, holding my

> > fingers etc.

> > Then, on Christmas Eve, she had an instant message conversation with

> my

> > 12 year old and among other things told her that her grandfather was

> > mean and that I was lying to her about the Christmas gifts we have not

> > received, making me furious!

> > Then, yesterday, I got an email from her and it's the usual

> pleasantries

> > with hidden jabs. I wrote back with how I felt and told her the truth

> > (my 8 months old nephew was in the hospital the past few weeks, very

> > ill, she's 1 hour away and didn't go to visit, just an example of what

> > infuriates me). I read it to my dad and my husband and they both

> think

> > it's certainly right on for the truth, but it's sharp and does not

> spare

> > her.

> > Should I send it or not?

> >

> > Petra (mailto:Petra@...)

> >

> >

> >