Re: Conditioning (Heidi)

[Guest guest]

Hi Heidi,

Comments inserted below

>

> I have gone inside. I don't know that TFAH is always my experience

> but I do find it to be most of the time, and more importantly it

> doesn't really matter. When there is a disturbance and it feels

> stressful, i can inquire on my thoughts. I have experienced

> sometimes when there seem to be feelings with no thought attached --

> those are wonderful times... even in the midst of deep grief, when

> it's just the grief without thoughts about how it should be

> different, it is a true opening of my heart.

> Sometimes it's a feeling of love too, without thoughts, just

> love... until of course a thought pops in about how wonderful that

> is.

The wonderful thing about reality is that it doesn't wait on my

recognition. A feeling of grief is quite impossible without a thought

of grief. A feeling of love is quite impossible without a loving

thought. I can understand how anyone could miss the original thought,

if you are not looking for it. That is why I always suggest the

opposite, if someone really wants to know what's true. Try to feel

grief without thinking a thought of great loss. Try to feel love

without having a loving thought.

>

> I just don't think the TFAH order is worth beating to death. It's

> your truth and you say that it is 's (i've never heard her

> say: " this is true! " even in telling her experience... in all

> likelihood she'd be asking " is it true? " ) -- And so, feeling the

> need to convince others of TFAH doesn't seem it would feel

> peaceful, at least from over here. So, i'm still curious: If

> everyone on the list agreed and said you are right about

> TFAH, would you be happy and at peace?

>

That I am " beating to death " TFAH or trying to convince anyone of its

truth is just your projection. I cannot convince anyone of anything.

If I thought there was " someone " to be convinced I would be confused

indeed! As I have said before " it " writes, and then I get to tell the

story that " I " did it.

I would be insane if I thought everyone on this list would understand

TFAH, some will others won't. I really don't have anything to do with

it. My happiness and peace have NOTHING to do with what ANYONE says

on this list, my happiness and peace depend ONLY on my thinking

(story).

LOL, " it " really needed to hear what was written above, even if no

one else hears it

Love,

Neo

[Guest guest]

> The wonderful thing about reality is that it doesn't wait on my

> recognition. A feeling of grief is quite impossible without a

> thought of grief. A feeling of love is quite impossible without a

> loving thought. I can understand how anyone could miss the original

> thought, if you are not looking for it. That is why I always

> suggest the opposite, if someone really wants to know what's true.

> Try to feel grief without thinking a thought of great loss. Try to

> feel love without having a loving thought.

*****Neo, this is how it is for me. In the main, there is agreement

with what you say. So help me out here. There are times, more and

more frequent, when a " feeling " of happiness - or, better yet, joy,

appears. The sensation is similar to floating in the ocean on one's

back, and a gentle wave comes under you, picks you up, and carries -

entirely without any effort on your part - towards the shore.

This ... feeling arises here. It is only joy or love or whatever one

chooses to call it, after the fact, when, in reflection, it

is " named " as such-and-such a feeling. The naming, the recognition

of " Ahhhh...this is joy " comes afterwards when thought arises. But,

in my experience, there is some feeling actualizes prior to the

cognition of it as a specific feeling. It is for this reason that it

seems to me that feelings may arise in a bodymind mechanism prior to

thought. The *identification* of the feeling (as joy, grief, love,

sadness) is the action of thought - post the appearance of the

feeling.

> > I just don't think the TFAH order is worth beating to death. It's

> > your truth and you say that it is 's (i've never heard her

> > say: " this is true! " even in telling her experience... in all

> > likelihood she'd be asking " is it true? " ) -- And so, feeling the

> > need to convince others of TFAH doesn't seem it would feel

> > peaceful, at least from over here. So, i'm still curious: If

> > everyone on the list agreed and said you are right about

> > TFAH, would you be happy and at peace?

> That I am " beating to death " TFAH or trying to convince anyone of

> its truth is just your projection. I cannot convince anyone of

> anything. If I thought there was " someone " to be convinced I would

> be confused indeed! As I have said before " it " writes, and then I

> get to tell the story that " I " did it.

> I would be insane if I thought everyone on this list would

> understand TFAH, some will others won't. I really don't have

> anything to do with it. My happiness and peace have NOTHING to do

> with what ANYONE says on this list, my happiness and peace depend

> ONLY on my thinking (story).

*****What reads better to me is this: your happiness and peace depend

ONLY on your investment in your thinking (story). It seems to me

that without the investment in thought (one way or the other), there

is just thought happening, stories spinning, neither pleasant nor

upsetting. Not that we can " make " such a state-of-affairs happen.

It either does or it doesn't. Any thoughts on this?