Guest guest Posted December 17, 2003 Report Share Posted December 17, 2003 > > *****I have found that judgments do become less and less. And yet, > some persist. The turning point here was the discovery that what > naturally dropped away was the concern and the desire that > judgments should stop. No thought is an issue, ones that please > ones that hurt ones that aggravate ... NONE are 'issues' if there > is no investment in them. " I am upset. " So WHAT??? The upset is > only an issue if one is holding on to a notion that one " shouldn't > be upset. " Seeing that upset is the reality of the moment, nothing > more need be done. It is there. It may not " feel " good. But, > like everything else, it will not persist forever. If there is a > feeling to get rid of thoughts, that ties one to the thoughts. And > round and round, like a dog chasing its tail, you go! Better then > ~ if possible ~ to just allow the judgments to be. If any energy > is to be expended in this issue, seek to exert it in erasing the > stake in the thoughts. In the absence of any attachment to a > thought, it has no power to compel. > And there is peace (even if the midst of a shitstorm). > Hi Andy, Yes, believing our judgemental thoughts is what causes the pain. As I understand it Inquiry is used to undo that belief. If upset is the reality of the moment, then I am obviously confused and I am believing a thought which is not true. Since being upset is painful it would be in my best interests to inquire and undo it. I'm sorry but I can't agree with your suggestion " to just allow the judgments to be " . Inquiry does not ask us to just sit and watch our judgements, but rather it asks us to actively inquire using the four questions and the turn around. " In my experience, we can be happy RIGHT NOW if we question our thoughts " Byron . If painful thoughts arise " loving what is " means that we welcome them into Inquiry as confused friends where they at last can be undone and find resolution. It does not mean that we sit around saying its okay to be upset/depressed/angry. LOL, that would really be insane! Loving what is, angel, and that would be you, Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Thanks Neo. You make a very important point here. Many believe that The Work is about becoming a doormat for whatever. This could not be further from the Truth. Happy Holidys, Steve D. > > > > *****I have found that judgments do become less and less. And yet, > > some persist. The turning point here was the discovery that what > > naturally dropped away was the concern and the desire that > > judgments should stop. No thought is an issue, ones that please > > ones that hurt ones that aggravate ... NONE are 'issues' if there > > is no investment in them. " I am upset. " So WHAT??? The upset is > > only an issue if one is holding on to a notion that one " shouldn't > > be upset. " Seeing that upset is the reality of the moment, nothing > > more need be done. It is there. It may not " feel " good. But, > > like everything else, it will not persist forever. If there is a > > feeling to get rid of thoughts, that ties one to the thoughts. And > > round and round, like a dog chasing its tail, you go! Better then > > ~ if possible ~ to just allow the judgments to be. If any energy > > is to be expended in this issue, seek to exert it in erasing the > > stake in the thoughts. In the absence of any attachment to a > > thought, it has no power to compel. > > And there is peace (even if the midst of a shitstorm). > > > > Hi Andy, > > Yes, believing our judgemental thoughts is what causes the pain. As I > understand it Inquiry is used to undo that belief. > > If upset is the reality of the moment, then I am obviously confused > and I am believing a thought which is not true. Since being upset is > painful it would be in my best interests to inquire and undo it. > > I'm sorry but I can't agree with your suggestion " to just allow the > judgments to be " . Inquiry does not ask us to just sit and watch our > judgements, but rather it asks us to actively inquire using the four > questions and the turn around. " In my experience, we can be happy > RIGHT NOW if we question our thoughts " Byron . > > If painful thoughts arise " loving what is " means that we welcome them > into Inquiry as confused friends where they at last can be undone and > find resolution. It does not mean that we sit around saying its okay > to be upset/depressed/angry. LOL, that would really be insane! > > Loving what is, angel, and that would be you, > > > Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 > *****I have found that judgments do become less and less. And yet, > some persist. The turning point here was the discovery that what > naturally dropped away was the concern and the desire that > judgments should stop. No thought is an issue, ones that please > ones that hurt ones that aggravate ... NONE are 'issues' if there > is no investment in them. " I am upset. " So WHAT??? The upset is > only an issue if one is holding on to a notion that one " shouldn't > be upset. " Seeing that upset is the reality of the moment, nothing > more need be done. It is there. It may not " feel " good. But, > like everything else, it will not persist forever. If there is a > feeling to get rid of thoughts, that ties one to the thoughts. And > round and round, like a dog chasing its tail, you go! Better then > ~ if possible ~ to just allow the judgments to be. If any energy > is to be expended in this issue, seek to exert it in erasing the > stake in the thoughts. In the absence of any attachment to a > thought, it has no power to compel. > And there is peace (even if the midst of a shitstorm). > Hi Andy, Yes, believing our judgemental thoughts is what causes the pain. As I understand it Inquiry is used to undo that belief. If upset is the reality of the moment, then I am obviously confused and I am believing a thought which is not true. Since being upset is painful it would be in my best interests to inquire and undo it. I'm sorry but I can't agree with your suggestion " to just allow the judgments to be " . Inquiry does not ask us to just sit and watch our judgements, but rather it asks us to actively inquire using the four questions and the turn around. " In my experience, we can be happy RIGHT NOW if we question our thoughts " Byron . If painful thoughts arise " loving what is " means that we welcome them into Inquiry as confused friends where they at last can be undone and find resolution. It does not mean that we sit around saying its okay to be upset/depressed/angry. LOL, that would really be insane! *****I hear you, Neo, and I fully agree. I think there was so misunderstanding on your part, or, quite possibly, I didn't make it clear (a common infliction, I've noticed! Hahaha!!!). The notion that one just sits back and says " Here is a judgment that is presenting itself to me, and it is causing upset ... I accept that I must feel upset now because that is what God has 'assigned' for me at this moment " is a concept that, in some circles, is referred to as the Advaita Shuffle. I wasn't suggesting one do that (although some will, and that too is dictated by It). IMO, ALL upset is an invitation...an offer to go deep into the manufacturing process of the upset, to See the mechanism at work, and, perhaps, in that Seeing, have the upset dissolve in the light of inquiry. I am a relative neophyte at The Work. Perhaps I don't understand it well enough. But my impression - and please correct me if I'm wrong here -- my impression is that The Work is NOT to be done to fix problems (e.g., an immediate upset). That may be a *result* of doing the work, either now, or in a few weeks, or months or ... But the motivation for The Work is not to be as a " cure " for Life's apparent travils. As I understand it, the ONLY " valid " reason to do The Work is the love of truth, the joy of inquiry, the pleasure derived from experiencing the light of discovery. This is how I understand The Work and the motivation behind it. So...if this is correct, one DOES, in fact, 'just let the judgments be.' Either they will shift, perhaps be undone, or they won't. Do The Work anyway, and let the chips fall where they may! In my comment above I was saying that if there is an *investment* in removing a judgment which is causing upset, that investment is the issue, not the judgment. And if that is driving the inquiry ( " I've got to undo this judgment which is causing me pain " ), that type of mindset ties one to the judgment and undermines The Work. I deeply enjoy your dialogues Neo. Thank you. ~andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 > > I am a relative neophyte at The Work. Perhaps I don't understand > it well enough. But my impression - and please correct me if I'm > wrong here -- my impression is that The Work is NOT to be done to > fix problems (e.g., an immediate upset). That may be a *result* of > doing the work, either now, or in a few weeks, or months or ... > But the motivation for The Work is not to be as a " cure " for Life's > apparent travils. As I understand it, the ONLY " valid " reason to > do The Work is the love of truth, the joy of inquiry, the pleasure > derived from experiencing the light of discovery. This is how I > understand The Work and the motivation behind it. So...if this is > correct, one DOES, in fact, 'just let the judgments be.' Either > they will shift, perhaps be undone, or they won't. Do The Work > anyway, and let the chips fall where they may! > Hi Andy, As I understand it the Work is about uncovering the " truth " . I personally think you can come to it with any motivation. What determines whether a thought is undone or not is how honest I am in asking and answering the questions. Do I honestly want to see what is really going on or am I more comfortable with my story (lies). Also I don't do the work on a judgement just once and then let it be. If I am still in pain because I believe a thought, I will inquire again and again until the belief is undone. I may also shift my Inquiry to a belief which is smaller and more manageable and slowly work up to the big issues. If the Inquiry does not " work " then I simply know that at this moment I am too afraid to let my painful beliefs go, perhaps I will try again in an hour or a few hours and see how it is then. The process could take weeks or even years. Honestly if I was depressed I don't know if I would be doing the Work for the love of truth in the beginning. I would be doing it to get some relief from the pain. However, if I honestly saw that I was only feeling depressed because I was believing some stupid thought like " Everyone hates me, I am worthless " , then that would be a moment of great freedom and much peace. I don't think the chips could fall any other way Loving what is, angel, and that would be you, Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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