Re: Never know if suicide was BP or not

[Guest guest]

Dear Nicky,

I am so very sorry to hear of your tremendous loss of life~ Perhaps I

am stepping out of my shoes here, but I think this sounds pretty

classic to me as far as BPD off-spring. Edith or someone will surely

have the name of the new book about the " BPD MOTHER " .

For some reason I keep reading the first few chapters of eggshells

over and over again, until it has SEEPED into my brain. A few things

to let you know is #1. GET A LAWYER ASAP(oh i see you have one good

gal!) #2. BPD's have a very hard upbringing, being the child of an

raging lunatic is no fun. You do not play unless you are all alone.

The SWOE book explains that BPD off-spring have tendency to abuse

drugs (self medicate), to drink, to do many risky things including

suicide. The book specifically tells you to seek help ASAP if you

feel you are about to. I am sure your husband found the book very

painful to read, I know for me it has been a hard thing to deal with.

Undoing all the years of craziness is just insane, for me my mother

was OK from time to time + she got rid of me a great deal of the time

so I did not grow up with her 100%/only perhaps 40%.

I can see how sad this must be, also how angry you may feel that you

have been left with such kinds of things to deal with =(

Kubler Ross, has written some wonderful books on grieving, my

father's girlfriend lost her husband when her children were only 3,

5, 7~ She has used those books through the years to get her through

the pain and agony. Sounds like he fits the shell of a BPD offspring,

and (please if I am wrong someone correct me) when you are rasied

with a BPD mother/ one really do need a lot of therapy, or they can

end up in pain all the time as your husband may have.

For you, it is probably very important to have a support system or

therapist, I cannot imagine doing this (taking care of my children)

all alone, with my in-laws, my mother and oh the finances would be a

disaster (my husband is in a family business, so they would take full

advantage of me in that way).

I just don't have much in the advice arena to give you, but I can

offer you some support. Please know I am so very sorry for your

family and the loss you have suffered. My baby is climbing, I will

try to write more later ok?

Gentle Hug's to you!

You sound like you are doing a great job with the children.

Sincerely,

Kim

> Hello everyone,

>

> I posted here a few years ago, and had wondered if my late

husband

> was BP or not. Now I have a serious delemna of trying to figure out

> how to deal with my in-laws. I'm absolutely certain that they are

> both Narcissistic (oh, how is that spelled?) They were a great

source

> of difficulty as my husband tried so hard to resolve himself to not

> being guilty for wanting to parent his children differently. He

would

> rage about them and how they messed him up, and he tried to look at

> his issues, but had pretty much repressed all of his childhood.

There

> were confessions from his nutsy biological mother during a visit

last

> Christmas. She had had no interest in him until he was required to

> take guardianship of her during an alcohol induced coma. Her

> confessions included that of sexual abuse duriong his infancy. His

> heritage has some very disturbing acceptances of some horendous

> things due to isolation and the likes,...I believe that may be why

> people just disappearing without anyone showing conscern for

looking

> for them may be because there is an understanding that that is one

of

> the few ways to escape the horrible ways they treat eachother....

> Thus my husbands childhood. While pretending normal after

being

> taken in by a normal looking step-familyNeglegence and bullying

> dictatorship by father...mother comtrols to the best of her ability

> by projecting emotional responsibility on to anyone but herself.

> I fell for the illusion for a while. But my sweet souled

husband

> just lost his battle to standing up to the hierarchy!!

> Now they try to take his belongings from his work and lie to

the

> worters to claim them...'supposedly to bring to me'...NOT!There are

> suspicious dealings with all sorts of finances, and I simply

stopped

> having anything to do with them after my husbands tools were

brought

> home to me. Now I have a lawyer, and a big mess of an estate to

> figure out, and two young children to see through this...there was

no

> will left, and I tried to stay in the house we were in together for

a

> while, but just couldn't.

> My MIL just won't accept my boundary. I asked 3 months ago for

> her to let me get ahold of her when I was ready to talk with them

> about what things would need to change in the way we relate to

> eachother as well as that there will be no alcohol or drugs of any

> kind used around my children...one of the factors to their daddy's

> poor choice. My MIL has not let more than 2 weeks go by without

> attempting contact. Now she is trying to go through my step-son's

> guardian, as well as through notes sent in Christmas packages.

> I know they have suffered a loss too, but this was my husband.

> It had turned into doomestic violence as he projected his rage onto

> me...a rage fired by his contacts with them and the battle he had

> going as the result of....I just want them to give me the time I

need

> to take care of all that I have to do before pouring my energy into

> trying to make sure they are okay. That they feel okay. That they

> don't feel guilty.

>

> IT " S NOT MY JOB!! It won't help anyone right now for them to keep

> pushing. My kids are doing so well, and then I try to write them a

> letter because they have gotten another message through, and I get

> all angry and guilt starts to come up...I just don't have the eor

> this right now. My kids have got to come first. I'm definately up

> there too. Then all the rest of the job ahead of me..I feel like

> calling them and telling them to just grow-up. I was his wife and

> should not be asked to be making sure anyone else is feeling fine

> right now..!..?..!

> I'm conscerned about the way they relate to my kids now too.

There

> have been so many things I havn't been comfortable with, and now I

> just can't let the dysfunction continue. My kids lives may depend

on

> alot of things changing now. I can't let the same patterning

> continue. I need to lead by example.

>

> I wonder...does anyone know of a websight for narcissistic

> offspring? Perhaps I can pull my thoughts together there. It's been

a

> long time since I read Eggshells, because it seemed to bother my

> husband after he took a look at it. I sooo wish he could have found

> some help, but I don't know how with so much of his history

> repressed!

>

> Any help out there? Anyone ever have something like this to deal

> with? If this is an inappropriate place to be posting this stuff,

I'm

> sorry. I just needed to vent alot of it. Thankyou for letting me..

>

> Trying to move forward gently......Nicky

[Guest guest]

Nicky,

I just want to echo Kim's message of support...I can't imagine how

hard it must be for you to deal with all of this heartache, and I

think you are demonstrating a great deal of strength and

resilience. If it is possible for you to make some time to talk

with a therapist, the additional personal support may really help

bring you comfort and courage. Hopefully you will also find that

here! I am sorry I can not offer concrete " advice, " but I do want

to tell you that I think you need not feel responsible for his

parents' emotions...the most important thing now is for you to take

care of yourself and your children. You can not be expected to tend

to their needs (a task that may be nearly impossible for *anyone* in

fact, given their own problems).

Best to you and your family,

Gin

[Guest guest]

#2. BPD's have a very hard upbringing, being the child of an

> raging lunatic is no fun. You do not play unless you are all alone.

> The SWOE book explains that BPD off-spring have tendency to abuse

> drugs (self medicate), to drink, to do many risky things including

> suicide.

Yes, I can attest to that. My Nada is most definately the

raging type. My husband's parents had a very well structured

illusion. I really am just beginning to pull it all together because

to get between his parents and him was not a safe place to be, as I

would get the bad end of the rage. I sensed long ago that it was best

to just let them play their illusion. I stopped participating some

time ago, and ofcourse was quite often indirectly pointed out as the

one that was ruining everyone's fun...for such things as asking for a

life jacket for my kids while out on a boat. My Fada in laws response

was... " if they fall over and drown, they drown.. " What a silencing

and shaming environment my late husband grew up in. He was spanked

for creating fear in his father after falling down a lengthy and

steep cement staircase at 5 years old. My mother in law dismissed it

as that he reacted with anger when he was afraid. Okay, so that makes

it acceptable to punish a child for showing pain??@!!!!

Juat as easily dismissed was his previous attempt at suicide.

His ex-wife told me that he had taken half of a bottle of her

prescription medication and when she called his parents to ask for

their assistance she was told that he probably could see that her

meds made her feel better and he just wanted to feel better too.!!!

So easily dismissed was this, that I did not have the information to

get him some urgent help because I was not told of this insident

until it was too late.

How could she not tell me about this when I called her in March

of last year to ask for a safe place for myself and my girls to stay

if he started drinking again, and her response was no; that he would

hunt us down there. Guess she was more conscerned for her own safety.

When I told her that I was conscerned about his depressive states and

that I was afraid of what he may do to himself, she said nothing of

his previous attempt, just said that it wouldn't be my fault if he

did!!! Why didn't she tell me he had tried before?!

In his notes he directly held me responsible for his decision,

but my nada-in-law wants me to aleviate her guilt because she had

yelled at him on the phone for hurting her feelings just a few days

before he did this. He said something sarcastic about her thinking

she had all the answers for everyone, and she allegedly burst into

tears and said horrible things to him.

I can't help her with her guilt, because he only mentioned blame

of me in his notes.!!....How am I supposed to help her feel better?

I honestly don't know if his parents are any disorder or of what

kind. They looked so normal to me because they didn't rage like my

nada and fada. I don't have anything to do with either of them. My

kids have only had my in-laws to call family until now. My husband

was a wonderful man and we were good together until we moved far from

his parents and his dad kept trying to keep him busy with overtime

work all the time. His motto was to produce babies and provide. My

husband hated his father for 'ignoring him' throughout his childhood.

He became a wonderful carpenter, but wanted to spend time with his

family. All his dad had to do was say 'there's work' and DJ justr

couldn't say no. He never even asked...just announced...

When they lied and took his tools and put them in storage, 40

days for religious reasons...I didn't even know they had lied to get

them. So after 40 days I asked my nada-in-law what their intentiones

were and she stated that they wanted to give them to his briothers. I

contacted my husband's boss whom then became angry because he had

been lied to and recollected the tools himself and brought them to

me. I was absolutely disgusted that they had even taken things that

were half made gifts for my children and many personal items that

were about myself and our kids. They had even taken a blanket chest

that his boss had crafted as a gift for us. I can't believe they just

felt they were entitled to these things.

I don't understand them at all. Now of all times it's just

absurd. His memorial was a little lala land fantasy romanticising

things that had given him nightmares, while my 'stoned on something'

nada-in-law was nearly sitting in my lap and crying and clinging to

me. No doubt with the hopes of appearing to be supportive or

suffering thegreatest or something very self-centered. All I could do

was just cry and wait for them toleave the church so I could go look

closer at the picture of him. They even wrote into the service an

announcement that 'the widow will now speak a few words about her

husband. I just had no idea how to respond as how could anyone in any

kind of right mind expect the widow of a suicide to bravely stand up

and say a few words after all that had taken place.

They knew he had been drinking, so what did everyobne do after

the memorial?....go to the in'-laws house and get drunk?!!

Oh, I'm just going on and on. I do have a therapist but the

transmission in my vehicle burned up and I have yet to get more

reliable transportation, which is why I'm here. I wonder how my kids

have come through this so well. I'm working really hard on trying to

stay stable for them. They are my focus. Their counsellor had some

time with my 5 yr old, and covered the possibility of her

internalising a feeling of responsibility. She asked the question of

my very shy and thoughtful little one, gave her a few minutes to

quietly play while thinking it through...as she does...she a very

interesting child...and then she looked her square in the eye and

said... " my daddy tied the rope around his own neck...HE killed

himself. " ....I wish I has such clarity. I think my little ones are

very well watched over....

Of all the things I had tried so hard to prevent from happening in

their young lives, how could I have even immagined that this would be

something they would have to live with? I hope I can see them through

it well. They are such wonderful little beings. I hope I'm not just a

big mess and can't see it, and that they will suffer from my illusion

too. How does one know when they are living in an illusion? My in-

laws can't see it, even now that it has been shattered.

Thanks for letting me go on again. I'm grateful this list is

still here. Nicky

[Guest guest]

Nicky, I'm glad you've got a therapist, because I found the one on one

immediate feedback was very helpful to me. Your little one sounds

pretty secure! She's so right about your husband making a choice. He

could have chosen to seek help. His parents sound absolutely

nutso..have you read about narcissism? the father sounds like he is the

king of the hill and that might fit. there's definitely plenty of

codependency in that family. I'd do anything to keep my kids away from

someone that unsafe. Can your lawyer help with that? Keep posting!

Ilene

nicky2trees wrote:

>

>

>

>

> #2. BPD's have a very hard upbringing, being the child of an

> > raging lunatic is no fun. You do not play unless you are all alone.

> > The SWOE book explains that BPD off-spring have tendency to abuse

> > drugs (self medicate), to drink, to do many risky things including

> > suicide.

>

> Yes, I can attest to that. My Nada is most definately the

> raging type. My husband's parents had a very well structured

> illusion. I really am just beginning to pull it all together because

> to get between his parents and him was not a safe place to be, as I

> would get the bad end of the rage. I sensed long ago that it was best

> to just let them play their illusion. I stopped participating some

> time ago, and ofcourse was quite often indirectly pointed out as the

> one that was ruining everyone's fun...for such things as asking for a

> life jacket for my kids while out on a boat. My Fada in laws response

> was... " if they fall over and drown, they drown.. " What a silencing

> and shaming environment my late husband grew up in. He was spanked

> for creating fear in his father after falling down a lengthy and

> steep cement staircase at 5 years old. My mother in law dismissed it

> as that he reacted with anger when he was afraid. Okay, so that makes

> it acceptable to punish a child for showing pain??@!!!!

> Juat as easily dismissed was his previous attempt at suicide.

> His ex-wife told me that he had taken half of a bottle of her

> prescription medication and when she called his parents to ask for

> their assistance she was told that he probably could see that her

> meds made her feel better and he just wanted to feel better too.!!!

> So easily dismissed was this, that I did not have the information to

> get him some urgent help because I was not told of this insident

> until it was too late.

> How could she not tell me about this when I called her in March

> of last year to ask for a safe place for myself and my girls to stay

> if he started drinking again, and her response was no; that he would

> hunt us down there. Guess she was more conscerned for her own safety.

> When I told her that I was conscerned about his depressive states and

> that I was afraid of what he may do to himself, she said nothing of

> his previous attempt, just said that it wouldn't be my fault if he

> did!!! Why didn't she tell me he had tried before?!

> In his notes he directly held me responsible for his decision,

> but my nada-in-law wants me to aleviate her guilt because she had

> yelled at him on the phone for hurting her feelings just a few days

> before he did this. He said something sarcastic about her thinking

> she had all the answers for everyone, and she allegedly burst into

> tears and said horrible things to him.

> I can't help her with her guilt, because he only mentioned blame

> of me in his notes.!!....How am I supposed to help her feel better?

>

> I honestly don't know if his parents are any disorder or of what

> kind. They looked so normal to me because they didn't rage like my

> nada and fada. I don't have anything to do with either of them. My

> kids have only had my in-laws to call family until now. My husband

> was a wonderful man and we were good together until we moved far from

> his parents and his dad kept trying to keep him busy with overtime

> work all the time. His motto was to produce babies and provide. My

> husband hated his father for 'ignoring him' throughout his childhood.

> He became a wonderful carpenter, but wanted to spend time with his

> family. All his dad had to do was say 'there's work' and DJ justr

> couldn't say no. He never even asked...just announced...

> When they lied and took his tools and put them in storage, 40

> days for religious reasons...I didn't even know they had lied to get

> them. So after 40 days I asked my nada-in-law what their intentiones

> were and she stated that they wanted to give them to his briothers. I

> contacted my husband's boss whom then became angry because he had

> been lied to and recollected the tools himself and brought them to

> me. I was absolutely disgusted that they had even taken things that

> were half made gifts for my children and many personal items that

> were about myself and our kids. They had even taken a blanket chest

> that his boss had crafted as a gift for us. I can't believe they just

> felt they were entitled to these things.

> I don't understand them at all. Now of all times it's just

> absurd. His memorial was a little lala land fantasy romanticising

> things that had given him nightmares, while my 'stoned on something'

> nada-in-law was nearly sitting in my lap and crying and clinging to

> me. No doubt with the hopes of appearing to be supportive or

> suffering thegreatest or something very self-centered. All I could do

> was just cry and wait for them toleave the church so I could go look

> closer at the picture of him. They even wrote into the service an

> announcement that 'the widow will now speak a few words about her

> husband. I just had no idea how to respond as how could anyone in any

> kind of right mind expect the widow of a suicide to bravely stand up

> and say a few words after all that had taken place.

> They knew he had been drinking, so what did everyobne do after

> the memorial?....go to the in'-laws house and get drunk?!!

>

>

> Oh, I'm just going on and on. I do have a therapist but the

> transmission in my vehicle burned up and I have yet to get more

> reliable transportation, which is why I'm here. I wonder how my kids

> have come through this so well. I'm working really hard on trying to

> stay stable for them. They are my focus. Their counsellor had some

> time with my 5 yr old, and covered the possibility of her

> internalising a feeling of responsibility. She asked the question of

> my very shy and thoughtful little one, gave her a few minutes to

> quietly play while thinking it through...as she does...she a very

> interesting child...and then she looked her square in the eye and

> said... " my daddy tied the rope around his own neck...HE killed

> himself. " ....I wish I has such clarity. I think my little ones are

> very well watched over....

>

> Of all the things I had tried so hard to prevent from happening in

> their young lives, how could I have even immagined that this would be

> something they would have to live with? I hope I can see them through

> it well. They are such wonderful little beings. I hope I'm not just a

> big mess and can't see it, and that they will suffer from my illusion

> too. How does one know when they are living in an illusion? My in-

> laws can't see it, even now that it has been shattered.

>

> Thanks for letting me go on again. I'm grateful this list is

> still here. Nicky

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nicky - Hi. My name's Michele. I'm a lurker who hardly ever posts,

but it just so happens that right before checking this message board

I was looking at this great page that has links to all sorts of

support groups - one of which was for adult children of Narcissitic

parents. Here's the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AdultsRecoveringFrom-NarcissiticParents/

Here's the link to the main list of resources - it's a real wealth of

help & information (it's how I found THIS group several months ago):

http://www.bpdresources.com/supportnons.html#ChildrenBoards

Good luck. Michele.