Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I started this topic because I feel the film is something that does

affect all Americans.

Sure, people who come to this group are primarily interested in Rife

and other natural health remedies. However, I am sure we have all had

contact with allopathic medicine and I personally feel we should be

free to choose the best from both systems.

For example, someone who looses a finger in an accident, has no other

choice than to have surgery - there is no natural health alternative.

And this was one of the examples in the Sicko film where a ring

finger costs $12000 and an index finger $60000 to have reattached,

according to the film.

These costs are hard to absorb without health insurance and the film

looks at the problems where people WITH full health insurance are

being denied treatment by their health insurance companies for profit

reasons.

Whearas in countries with universal health care, it is no question

that both fingers need to be reattached without charging the patient

anything, in the USA it appears that insurance companies have to be

asked first and they will often try to avoid these costs by looking

for previous conditions not previously declared (e.g. yeast infection)

even if no doctor was asked to treat it. Perhaps just one finger will

be approved, not both!

Here in Germany, private health insurance companies are only allowed

to ask you to declare previous conditions in the past 5 years, not

your entire lifetime!

I feel this topic is relevant as this is a health related group and

these questions can have a major affect to the financial livelihood

of many American members.

Certainly, allopathic medicine for disease conditions is not going to

be the first choice for many here, yet that was not the issue raised

by the film.

Although did not touch on alternative health care, there is a

limit to what can be put into a 2 hour movie and addressing the

problems of denied payment for treatment for those who think they

have full coverage is surely a legitimate reason for a movie

and a discussion in this group.

There are other movies which can tackle the alternative/allopathic

discussion. We could however make a difference by posting relevant

comments about Rife therapy in other forums that discuss Sicko for

example.

Maybe more people, now afraid of the high costs for allopathic

medicine would be glad to learn about Rife not only being more cost

effective, but also being more effective in treating their condition,

too.

Surely the discussions and awareness raised by this film can only

help alternative medicine including Rife.

Sure, many people do eat at Mc's, yet if someone makes these

people aware that there is a better restaurant around the corner with

food that tastes even better and healthier too, maybe some will try

it out.

I do not know about America, but here in Europe so called " Bio "

organic foods have become so popular that all the major supermarket

chains now carry a wide range, despite the higher price tag.

We can offer " Bio " health methods, like Rife, that are healthier non-

toxic alternatives, yet are not even as expensive as " fast food medicine! "

And if that means using the awareness the Sicko movie has created, I

have no problem with that.

Regards

>

> Dear Group,

>

> Reading through the blizzard of responses on this subject, I was

> struck by a near total absence of reference to the self- use of

> alternative therapies, and especially any references to Rife

equipment

> and procedures.

>

> For myself and my wife, with the exception of several unavoidable

> situations, neither of us has needed to see a physician in nearly 40

> years. Alternative therapies work nicely.

>

> When I first started to explore the possibilities available through

> Rife techniques, there were a good number of sellers of suspicious

> equipment and lots of mis-information floating around, with precious

> few people whose recommendations you could follow without worry or

> concern. Prices for equipment ranged from ridiculously low to

> ridiculously high, and, aside from the time-worn frequency tables,

> there was little quality information you could use to guide yourself

> through the maze of possibilities.

>

> Fortunately, much of that has changed. Today, there are a number of

> individuals whose reputations have been established because they

> provide reliable equipment, used by substantial numbers of people.

> Some of those making and selling devices have struggled mightily to

> produce equipment at very reasonable cost- and they have succeeded

> admirably. There are many sources of good, tested formulas

available,

> and there is now quite a large body of reports confirming Rife

works.

>

> Perhaps I have mis-read the letters, because if you have broken your

> back, or if you have been mugged and are cut and bleeding, you don't

> need Rife. True emergency situations, especially those involving

> traumatic injury, are very well treated in American hospitals, and

not

> always at costs which would bankrupt the national treasury of a

medium

> sized country. In that regard, 's movie and the comments of

this

> group are points to be well taken.

>

> However, in terms of overall medical care, I am dismayed at what I

> perceive is a continued reliance, even among members of this group,

> upon " BigMed-BigPharma " . If WE are not able to break free of a

> dependence upon these two health organizations, what chance is there

> for those who know nothing of the tools and techniques we have at

our

> disposal? If you couple that ignorance with widespread disinterest

in

> preventive techniques (we still sell cigarettes) and proper

> nutritional controls (Mac's still reigns supreme), then I fear

> there is little hope for healthcare, no matter what the system of

> administration or who pays for it.

>

> Good health to all,

>

> Dr. S. N. Berger

>

[Guest guest]

Very well said Bruce! I'm totally appalled to hear so

many Americans talk like socialists. We've all been

conditioned to think that more government control is

the solution to all of society's problems, when the

reality is that excessive government control usually

_IS_ the problem. As Paine said, " Government

is at best a necessary evil, and at worst, an

intolerable one. " That statement is why America

exists in the first place, but now it seems that a

significant percentage of Americans would rather

prefer returning back to the days of the big boot of

government stomping on their face, just so they can

have a little soap to wash the mud off afterward. I'm

reminded of the ancient Israelites in the wilderness,

who wanted to return to slavery in Egypt, because they

had a greater variety of foods to eat there. It's so

sad to see that the land of the free and the and the

home of the brave has lost its bravery and no longer

wants freedom.

Regards,

--- " Bruce Guilmette, Ph. D. "

wrote:

> We need a government that does not involve itself in

> our lives. You already

> have a situation where you cannot seek the type of

> care you want without

> approval. Why do you insist on having further

> government intrusion?

>

> EXAMPLE: FDA has just issued another ban against

> Stevia being used as a

> sweetener by Celestial Seasons as well as Coke. It

> is safe and utilized

> around the world as a sweetener yet here it is

> banned.

>

> I cannot legally allow anyone to use my Rife

> equipment and even encourage

> them that it might help with their lyme disease or

> cancer or anything else

> because if I do, I can go to jail for practicing

> medicine without a license.

> I am only a psychologist, not an MD.

>

> I could not (when our kids were minors) even think

> of treating them for

> cancer (if they had faced that) with anything other

> than chemo, surgery,

> and/or radiation because if I did, I would go to

> jail and my children would

> have been taken away.

>

> And these are the people you want to administer

> health care for all of us?

>

> Great choice.

>

> Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D.

> http://survivecancerfoundation.org

[Guest guest]

Hi bruce,

What if you would get your md license and then use the rife technology to

treat people?

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

>

> The United States ranks 41st in the world for life expectancy from birth

> and

> the total cost is twice as much per capita then any other country. The

> U.S.

> healthcare system is bankrupting individuals and our government. The U.S.

> has enough horror stories about our healthcare to fill a 1000 novels. We

> need a single payer healthcare system.

> Leveille

>

> Ringas wrote:

>

> --- polo wrote:

>

>> ,

>>

>> I am sure there is no perfect health care system

>> out there, but you are

>> lucky to have the safety net you have. There will

>> always be disgruntled

>> patients, no matter what system. No system is

>> perfect.

>

> This has nothing to do with disgruntled patients. It

> has to do with people being denied the liberty to

> choose the form of medical treatment they want, and

> being forced to buy into a system that brings

> everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

>

>> You apparently have

>> no idea what it would be like to finance expensive

>> hospital stays in the

>> USA. I was in the hospital in the early 1990s for a

>> spinal cord injury and

>> my expenses were well over $150,000 in a few weeks.

>> Had I not had private

>> insurance, I would have been ruined for the reminder

>> of my life.

>

> Since your insurance paid for your treatment, it is

> apparent that you also have no idea what it's like to

> finance an expensive hospital stay.

>

>> I know of

>> countless less fortunate people who were ruined,

>> lost every thing they

>> worked their lives for and they died from cancer any

>> way. Their families

>> came out of it, destitute.

>

> A more fundamental question is why were you able to

> afford insurance, but they weren't? Also, if America

> was truly the land of the free, there wouldn't be a

> system in place where you're stuck with only two

> choices; insurance or destitution.

>

>> You have no idea how

>> fortunate you are to live in

>> a country that has at least some type of safety net

>> for those that may need

>> it.

>

> Actually, I do know how fortunate I am to live in a

> country that has a safety net, but we're not talking

> about a safety net. We're talking about whether

> people should be responsible for their own lives and

> whether they should have the maximum amount of freedom

> to choose how they're going to live, and how they're

> going to receive medical treatment, and also whether

> they're going to be protected from being defrauded by

> insurance companies. 's film was about people

> who have insurance, but are being shafted by their

> insurance companies.

>

>> As far as your opinion on M. , I say, you

>> simply do not know him.

>

> And how many times have you been over to his house for

> a cup of tea or a beer? Or do you perhaps think you

> know him because you've seen his films?

>

>> Have you actually seen his work?

>

> Yes, I've seen his last three films, and probably some

> bits of some of his other films.

>

>> He has stood up

>> for the little guy for

>> years.

>> If you want to call him a socialist, go

>> ahead, but you are the

>> " propagandist " in this regard.

>

> That's what socialists do; with good intentions, they

> stand up for for one special interest group of people,

> what you call the little guy, instead of standing up

> for all people to have equal rights and maximum

> freedom. It's no different than what the elitists do.

>

>> I think, if you

>> actually saw SICKO, you

>> would know he really did question the mechanism of

>> why the USA health care

>> is so expensive. He goes into great detail how

>> politicians are bought to

>> protect big Pharm's profits. He goes into further

>> detail of why costs in the

>> USA are so out of control with no checks & balances.

>

> I did see it, and like I said, he whitewashes over the

> more fundamental issues. The fundamental issue here,

> and in most other issues is freedom, a subject you

> show little understanding or appreciation for.

> America as the the land of the free with your

> celebrated constitution has become a SICKO joke. If

> and others focused their energies on restoring

> true freedom, issues like health care would naturally

> resolve.

>

>> I never perceived the

>> theme from any of his documentaries that he is

>> trying to tell us what we

>> should do, he is only showing another side to the

>> story which needs to be

>> shown.

>

> As I said before, he's very crafty at his art, and I'm

> not surprised at all the you can't perceive his

> manipulation. If I remember correctly, he admitted

> that his goal with Fahrenheit 9/11 was to sway the

> election. Yes, he does show another side to the

> story, but the way in which he shows it is in a manner

> that manipulates our emotions. I myself have been

> emotionally moved by his films, even while consciously

> being aware that he's manipulating me. He's very good

> at that.

>

>> To you and Dr. G, who seems to think Canadians

>> prefer our health system,

>> I sure don't see any Canadians coming to the USA's

>> pharmacies to buy drugs.

>> True, the wealthy ones may come across for expensive

>> procedures not offered

>> at home, but you will have to prove to me that this

>> is a common occurrence,

>> otherwise, I just don't believe it and it has not

>> been by perception from

>> those Canadians, I have known.

>

> Nobody said that Canadians prefer your system, but I

> would be willing to wager that most of us would like

> the freedom to choose beyond the scraps that are

> handed down to us by the government. As things are

> now, I can use my money on all sorts of things that

> are ruinous to my health, but I can use my money to

> buy better health care than what the government

> offers. I can buy insurance and better care for my

> cat, but not myself.

>

>> At any rate, you are

>> really missing the

>> point, is not saying he has the answer to any

>> thing, only that every

>> USA citizen deserves to have minimal health care

>> without losing his life

>> savings.

>

> If that's the only point he was trying to make, then

> he shouldn't have held up systems like the Canadian

> one, where we're stuck with a monopoly and are taxed

> through the nose to support it. Having a minimal

> " safety net " as you call it would be a good thing, but

> anything beyond that is a violation of liberty. You

> can't have justice for one person at the expense of

> another.

>

>> We live in a country dictated by legalized

>> drug/health care sharks

>> that know they can charge the highest prices in the

>> world and get away with

>> it.

>

> Well, that is a far more fundamental issue that

> underlies why so many people can't afford health care.

> To implement a socialized system that these sharks are

> still in control of is a simple-minded proposition

> indeed.

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Got a little couch potato?

> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are there any medical doctors that use rife machines at all?

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

> Very well said Bruce! I'm totally appalled to hear so

> many Americans talk like socialists. We've all been

> conditioned to think that more government control is

> the solution to all of society's problems, when the

> reality is that excessive government control usually

> _IS_ the problem. As Paine said, " Government

> is at best a necessary evil, and at worst, an

> intolerable one. " That statement is why America

> exists in the first place, but now it seems that a

> significant percentage of Americans would rather

> prefer returning back to the days of the big boot of

> government stomping on their face, just so they can

> have a little soap to wash the mud off afterward. I'm

> reminded of the ancient Israelites in the wilderness,

> who wanted to return to slavery in Egypt, because they

> had a greater variety of foods to eat there. It's so

> sad to see that the land of the free and the and the

> home of the brave has lost its bravery and no longer

> wants freedom.

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- " Bruce Guilmette, Ph. D. "

> wrote:

>

>> We need a government that does not involve itself in

>> our lives. You already

>> have a situation where you cannot seek the type of

>> care you want without

>> approval. Why do you insist on having further

>> government intrusion?

>>

>> EXAMPLE: FDA has just issued another ban against

>> Stevia being used as a

>> sweetener by Celestial Seasons as well as Coke. It

>> is safe and utilized

>> around the world as a sweetener yet here it is

>> banned.

>>

>> I cannot legally allow anyone to use my Rife

>> equipment and even encourage

>> them that it might help with their lyme disease or

>> cancer or anything else

>> because if I do, I can go to jail for practicing

>> medicine without a license.

>> I am only a psychologist, not an MD.

>>

>> I could not (when our kids were minors) even think

>> of treating them for

>> cancer (if they had faced that) with anything other

>> than chemo, surgery,

>> and/or radiation because if I did, I would go to

>> jail and my children would

>> have been taken away.

>>

>> And these are the people you want to administer

>> health care for all of us?

>>

>> Great choice.

>>

>> Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D.

>> http://survivecancerfoundation.org

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem is that you are treating people with an " unapproved " medical

device and therefore subject to prosecution. The only difference is that

you have spent a lot more money to become an MD before you go to jail than

if you just start where you are.

It is a real touchy situation and some places you can get away with a lot

more, but frankly if I were a DO or MD, I would not jeopardize my license to

prove the point.

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D.

http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

Hi bruce,

What if you would get your md license and then use the rife technology to

treat people?

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

>

> The United States ranks 41st in the world for life expectancy from birth

> and

> the total cost is twice as much per capita then any other country. The

> U.S.

> healthcare system is bankrupting individuals and our government. The U.S.

> has enough horror stories about our healthcare to fill a 1000 novels. We

> need a single payer healthcare system.

> Leveille

>

> Ringas wrote:

>

> --- polo wrote:

>

>> ,

>>

>> I am sure there is no perfect health care system

>> out there, but you are

>> lucky to have the safety net you have. There will

>> always be disgruntled

>> patients, no matter what system. No system is

>> perfect.

>

> This has nothing to do with disgruntled patients. It

> has to do with people being denied the liberty to

> choose the form of medical treatment they want, and

> being forced to buy into a system that brings

> everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

>

>> You apparently have

>> no idea what it would be like to finance expensive

>> hospital stays in the

>> USA. I was in the hospital in the early 1990s for a

>> spinal cord injury and

>> my expenses were well over $150,000 in a few weeks.

>> Had I not had private

>> insurance, I would have been ruined for the reminder

>> of my life.

>

> Since your insurance paid for your treatment, it is

> apparent that you also have no idea what it's like to

> finance an expensive hospital stay.

>

>> I know of

>> countless less fortunate people who were ruined,

>> lost every thing they

>> worked their lives for and they died from cancer any

>> way. Their families

>> came out of it, destitute.

>

> A more fundamental question is why were you able to

> afford insurance, but they weren't? Also, if America

> was truly the land of the free, there wouldn't be a

> system in place where you're stuck with only two

> choices; insurance or destitution.

>

>> You have no idea how

>> fortunate you are to live in

>> a country that has at least some type of safety net

>> for those that may need

>> it.

>

> Actually, I do know how fortunate I am to live in a

> country that has a safety net, but we're not talking

> about a safety net. We're talking about whether

> people should be responsible for their own lives and

> whether they should have the maximum amount of freedom

> to choose how they're going to live, and how they're

> going to receive medical treatment, and also whether

> they're going to be protected from being defrauded by

> insurance companies. 's film was about people

> who have insurance, but are being shafted by their

> insurance companies.

>

>> As far as your opinion on M. , I say, you

>> simply do not know him.

>

> And how many times have you been over to his house for

> a cup of tea or a beer? Or do you perhaps think you

> know him because you've seen his films?

>

>> Have you actually seen his work?

>

> Yes, I've seen his last three films, and probably some

> bits of some of his other films.

>

>> He has stood up

>> for the little guy for

>> years.

>> If you want to call him a socialist, go

>> ahead, but you are the

>> " propagandist " in this regard.

>

> That's what socialists do; with good intentions, they

> stand up for for one special interest group of people,

> what you call the little guy, instead of standing up

> for all people to have equal rights and maximum

> freedom. It's no different than what the elitists do.

>

>> I think, if you

>> actually saw SICKO, you

>> would know he really did question the mechanism of

>> why the USA health care

>> is so expensive. He goes into great detail how

>> politicians are bought to

>> protect big Pharm's profits. He goes into further

>> detail of why costs in the

>> USA are so out of control with no checks & balances.

>

> I did see it, and like I said, he whitewashes over the

> more fundamental issues. The fundamental issue here,

> and in most other issues is freedom, a subject you

> show little understanding or appreciation for.

> America as the the land of the free with your

> celebrated constitution has become a SICKO joke. If

> and others focused their energies on restoring

> true freedom, issues like health care would naturally

> resolve.

>

>> I never perceived the

>> theme from any of his documentaries that he is

>> trying to tell us what we

>> should do, he is only showing another side to the

>> story which needs to be

>> shown.

>

> As I said before, he's very crafty at his art, and I'm

> not surprised at all the you can't perceive his

> manipulation. If I remember correctly, he admitted

> that his goal with Fahrenheit 9/11 was to sway the

> election. Yes, he does show another side to the

> story, but the way in which he shows it is in a manner

> that manipulates our emotions. I myself have been

> emotionally moved by his films, even while consciously

> being aware that he's manipulating me. He's very good

> at that.

>

>> To you and Dr. G, who seems to think Canadians

>> prefer our health system,

>> I sure don't see any Canadians coming to the USA's

>> pharmacies to buy drugs.

>> True, the wealthy ones may come across for expensive

>> procedures not offered

>> at home, but you will have to prove to me that this

>> is a common occurrence,

>> otherwise, I just don't believe it and it has not

>> been by perception from

>> those Canadians, I have known.

>

> Nobody said that Canadians prefer your system, but I

> would be willing to wager that most of us would like

> the freedom to choose beyond the scraps that are

> handed down to us by the government. As things are

> now, I can use my money on all sorts of things that

> are ruinous to my health, but I can use my money to

> buy better health care than what the government

> offers. I can buy insurance and better care for my

> cat, but not myself.

>

>> At any rate, you are

>> really missing the

>> point, is not saying he has the answer to any

>> thing, only that every

>> USA citizen deserves to have minimal health care

>> without losing his life

>> savings.

>

> If that's the only point he was trying to make, then

> he shouldn't have held up systems like the Canadian

> one, where we're stuck with a monopoly and are taxed

> through the nose to support it. Having a minimal

> " safety net " as you call it would be a good thing, but

> anything beyond that is a violation of liberty. You

> can't have justice for one person at the expense of

> another.

>

>> We live in a country dictated by legalized

>> drug/health care sharks

>> that know they can charge the highest prices in the

>> world and get away with

>> it.

>

> Well, that is a far more fundamental issue that

> underlies why so many people can't afford health care.

> To implement a socialized system that these sharks are

> still in control of is a simple-minded proposition

> indeed.

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Got a little couch potato?

> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

>

>

[Guest guest]

why does it matter whether or not it's approved? the fact is that it works.

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

>>

>> The United States ranks 41st in the world for life expectancy from birth

>> and

>> the total cost is twice as much per capita then any other country. The

>> U.S.

>> healthcare system is bankrupting individuals and our government. The U.S.

>> has enough horror stories about our healthcare to fill a 1000 novels. We

>> need a single payer healthcare system.

>> Leveille

>>

>> Ringas wrote:

>>

>> --- polo wrote:

>>

>>> ,

>>>

>>> I am sure there is no perfect health care system

>>> out there, but you are

>>> lucky to have the safety net you have. There will

>>> always be disgruntled

>>> patients, no matter what system. No system is

>>> perfect.

>>

>> This has nothing to do with disgruntled patients. It

>> has to do with people being denied the liberty to

>> choose the form of medical treatment they want, and

>> being forced to buy into a system that brings

>> everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

>>

>>> You apparently have

>>> no idea what it would be like to finance expensive

>>> hospital stays in the

>>> USA. I was in the hospital in the early 1990s for a

>>> spinal cord injury and

>>> my expenses were well over $150,000 in a few weeks.

>>> Had I not had private

>>> insurance, I would have been ruined for the reminder

>>> of my life.

>>

>> Since your insurance paid for your treatment, it is

>> apparent that you also have no idea what it's like to

>> finance an expensive hospital stay.

>>

>>> I know of

>>> countless less fortunate people who were ruined,

>>> lost every thing they

>>> worked their lives for and they died from cancer any

>>> way. Their families

>>> came out of it, destitute.

>>

>> A more fundamental question is why were you able to

>> afford insurance, but they weren't? Also, if America

>> was truly the land of the free, there wouldn't be a

>> system in place where you're stuck with only two

>> choices; insurance or destitution.

>>

>>> You have no idea how

>>> fortunate you are to live in

>>> a country that has at least some type of safety net

>>> for those that may need

>>> it.

>>

>> Actually, I do know how fortunate I am to live in a

>> country that has a safety net, but we're not talking

>> about a safety net. We're talking about whether

>> people should be responsible for their own lives and

>> whether they should have the maximum amount of freedom

>> to choose how they're going to live, and how they're

>> going to receive medical treatment, and also whether

>> they're going to be protected from being defrauded by

>> insurance companies. 's film was about people

>> who have insurance, but are being shafted by their

>> insurance companies.

>>

>>> As far as your opinion on M. , I say, you

>>> simply do not know him.

>>

>> And how many times have you been over to his house for

>> a cup of tea or a beer? Or do you perhaps think you

>> know him because you've seen his films?

>>

>>> Have you actually seen his work?

>>

>> Yes, I've seen his last three films, and probably some

>> bits of some of his other films.

>>

>>> He has stood up

>>> for the little guy for

>>> years.

>>> If you want to call him a socialist, go

>>> ahead, but you are the

>>> " propagandist " in this regard.

>>

>> That's what socialists do; with good intentions, they

>> stand up for for one special interest group of people,

>> what you call the little guy, instead of standing up

>> for all people to have equal rights and maximum

>> freedom. It's no different than what the elitists do.

>>

>>> I think, if you

>>> actually saw SICKO, you

>>> would know he really did question the mechanism of

>>> why the USA health care

>>> is so expensive. He goes into great detail how

>>> politicians are bought to

>>> protect big Pharm's profits. He goes into further

>>> detail of why costs in the

>>> USA are so out of control with no checks & balances.

>>

>> I did see it, and like I said, he whitewashes over the

>> more fundamental issues. The fundamental issue here,

>> and in most other issues is freedom, a subject you

>> show little understanding or appreciation for.

>> America as the the land of the free with your

>> celebrated constitution has become a SICKO joke. If

>> and others focused their energies on restoring

>> true freedom, issues like health care would naturally

>> resolve.

>>

>>> I never perceived the

>>> theme from any of his documentaries that he is

>>> trying to tell us what we

>>> should do, he is only showing another side to the

>>> story which needs to be

>>> shown.

>>

>> As I said before, he's very crafty at his art, and I'm

>> not surprised at all the you can't perceive his

>> manipulation. If I remember correctly, he admitted

>> that his goal with Fahrenheit 9/11 was to sway the

>> election. Yes, he does show another side to the

>> story, but the way in which he shows it is in a manner

>> that manipulates our emotions. I myself have been

>> emotionally moved by his films, even while consciously

>> being aware that he's manipulating me. He's very good

>> at that.

>>

>>> To you and Dr. G, who seems to think Canadians

>>> prefer our health system,

>>> I sure don't see any Canadians coming to the USA's

>>> pharmacies to buy drugs.

>>> True, the wealthy ones may come across for expensive

>>> procedures not offered

>>> at home, but you will have to prove to me that this

>>> is a common occurrence,

>>> otherwise, I just don't believe it and it has not

>>> been by perception from

>>> those Canadians, I have known.

>>

>> Nobody said that Canadians prefer your system, but I

>> would be willing to wager that most of us would like

>> the freedom to choose beyond the scraps that are

>> handed down to us by the government. As things are

>> now, I can use my money on all sorts of things that

>> are ruinous to my health, but I can use my money to

>> buy better health care than what the government

>> offers. I can buy insurance and better care for my

>> cat, but not myself.

>>

>>> At any rate, you are

>>> really missing the

>>> point, is not saying he has the answer to any

>>> thing, only that every

>>> USA citizen deserves to have minimal health care

>>> without losing his life

>>> savings.

>>

>> If that's the only point he was trying to make, then

>> he shouldn't have held up systems like the Canadian

>> one, where we're stuck with a monopoly and are taxed

>> through the nose to support it. Having a minimal

>> " safety net " as you call it would be a good thing, but

>> anything beyond that is a violation of liberty. You

>> can't have justice for one person at the expense of

>> another.

>>

>>> We live in a country dictated by legalized

>>> drug/health care sharks

>>> that know they can charge the highest prices in the

>>> world and get away with

>>> it.

>>

>> Well, that is a far more fundamental issue that

>> underlies why so many people can't afford health care.

>> To implement a socialized system that these sharks are

>> still in control of is a simple-minded proposition

>> indeed.

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ---------------------------------

>> Got a little couch potato?

>> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Well, if you want to find out whether or not it is approved because it

works, I suggest you set up shop, advertise and see what happens. Just drop

a note as to where they stick you in prison and if it is in the neighborhood

I will drop by. Otherwise I do promise I will write a letter or two.

Whether it works or not is irrelevant. The FDA is not interested in facts

(My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts) that they do not generate.

Stevia is a good example. It is used all over the world. There are

hundreds of well documented studies showing it is safe, cheap, etc... You

cannot use it in the US to sweeten anything on a commercial level because it

is not an approved sweetener.

I cannot emphasize enough the numbers of people who have fought with the FDA

over the years about what is documented as safe and what they accept as

documentation.

I have fought the government on a lot of stuff including taxes over the

years and this is one fight I would not take on because I guarantee I would

loose the battle before it even starts.

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D.

http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

why does it matter whether or not it's approved? the fact is that it works.

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

>>

>> The United States ranks 41st in the world for life expectancy from birth

>> and

>> the total cost is twice as much per capita then any other country. The

>> U.S.

>> healthcare system is bankrupting individuals and our government. The U.S.

>> has enough horror stories about our healthcare to fill a 1000 novels. We

>> need a single payer healthcare system.

>> Leveille

>>

>> Ringas wrote:

>>

>> --- polo wrote:

>>

>>> ,

>>>

>>> I am sure there is no perfect health care system

>>> out there, but you are

>>> lucky to have the safety net you have. There will

>>> always be disgruntled

>>> patients, no matter what system. No system is

>>> perfect.

>>

>> This has nothing to do with disgruntled patients. It

>> has to do with people being denied the liberty to

>> choose the form of medical treatment they want, and

>> being forced to buy into a system that brings

>> everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

>>

>>> You apparently have

>>> no idea what it would be like to finance expensive

>>> hospital stays in the

>>> USA. I was in the hospital in the early 1990s for a

>>> spinal cord injury and

>>> my expenses were well over $150,000 in a few weeks.

>>> Had I not had private

>>> insurance, I would have been ruined for the reminder

>>> of my life.

>>

>> Since your insurance paid for your treatment, it is

>> apparent that you also have no idea what it's like to

>> finance an expensive hospital stay.

>>

>>> I know of

>>> countless less fortunate people who were ruined,

>>> lost every thing they

>>> worked their lives for and they died from cancer any

>>> way. Their families

>>> came out of it, destitute.

>>

>> A more fundamental question is why were you able to

>> afford insurance, but they weren't? Also, if America

>> was truly the land of the free, there wouldn't be a

>> system in place where you're stuck with only two

>> choices; insurance or destitution.

>>

>>> You have no idea how

>>> fortunate you are to live in

>>> a country that has at least some type of safety net

>>> for those that may need

>>> it.

>>

>> Actually, I do know how fortunate I am to live in a

>> country that has a safety net, but we're not talking

>> about a safety net. We're talking about whether

>> people should be responsible for their own lives and

>> whether they should have the maximum amount of freedom

>> to choose how they're going to live, and how they're

>> going to receive medical treatment, and also whether

>> they're going to be protected from being defrauded by

>> insurance companies. 's film was about people

>> who have insurance, but are being shafted by their

>> insurance companies.

>>

>>> As far as your opinion on M. , I say, you

>>> simply do not know him.

>>

>> And how many times have you been over to his house for

>> a cup of tea or a beer? Or do you perhaps think you

>> know him because you've seen his films?

>>

>>> Have you actually seen his work?

>>

>> Yes, I've seen his last three films, and probably some

>> bits of some of his other films.

>>

>>> He has stood up

>>> for the little guy for

>>> years.

>>> If you want to call him a socialist, go

>>> ahead, but you are the

>>> " propagandist " in this regard.

>>

>> That's what socialists do; with good intentions, they

>> stand up for for one special interest group of people,

>> what you call the little guy, instead of standing up

>> for all people to have equal rights and maximum

>> freedom. It's no different than what the elitists do.

>>

>>> I think, if you

>>> actually saw SICKO, you

>>> would know he really did question the mechanism of

>>> why the USA health care

>>> is so expensive. He goes into great detail how

>>> politicians are bought to

>>> protect big Pharm's profits. He goes into further

>>> detail of why costs in the

>>> USA are so out of control with no checks & balances.

>>

>> I did see it, and like I said, he whitewashes over the

>> more fundamental issues. The fundamental issue here,

>> and in most other issues is freedom, a subject you

>> show little understanding or appreciation for.

>> America as the the land of the free with your

>> celebrated constitution has become a SICKO joke. If

>> and others focused their energies on restoring

>> true freedom, issues like health care would naturally

>> resolve.

>>

>>> I never perceived the

>>> theme from any of his documentaries that he is

>>> trying to tell us what we

>>> should do, he is only showing another side to the

>>> story which needs to be

>>> shown.

>>

>> As I said before, he's very crafty at his art, and I'm

>> not surprised at all the you can't perceive his

>> manipulation. If I remember correctly, he admitted

>> that his goal with Fahrenheit 9/11 was to sway the

>> election. Yes, he does show another side to the

>> story, but the way in which he shows it is in a manner

>> that manipulates our emotions. I myself have been

>> emotionally moved by his films, even while consciously

>> being aware that he's manipulating me. He's very good

>> at that.

>>

>>> To you and Dr. G, who seems to think Canadians

>>> prefer our health system,

>>> I sure don't see any Canadians coming to the USA's

>>> pharmacies to buy drugs.

>>> True, the wealthy ones may come across for expensive

>>> procedures not offered

>>> at home, but you will have to prove to me that this

>>> is a common occurrence,

>>> otherwise, I just don't believe it and it has not

>>> been by perception from

>>> those Canadians, I have known.

>>

>> Nobody said that Canadians prefer your system, but I

>> would be willing to wager that most of us would like

>> the freedom to choose beyond the scraps that are

>> handed down to us by the government. As things are

>> now, I can use my money on all sorts of things that

>> are ruinous to my health, but I can use my money to

>> buy better health care than what the government

>> offers. I can buy insurance and better care for my

>> cat, but not myself.

>>

>>> At any rate, you are

>>> really missing the

>>> point, is not saying he has the answer to any

>>> thing, only that every

>>> USA citizen deserves to have minimal health care

>>> without losing his life

>>> savings.

>>

>> If that's the only point he was trying to make, then

>> he shouldn't have held up systems like the Canadian

>> one, where we're stuck with a monopoly and are taxed

>> through the nose to support it. Having a minimal

>> " safety net " as you call it would be a good thing, but

>> anything beyond that is a violation of liberty. You

>> can't have justice for one person at the expense of

>> another.

>>

>>> We live in a country dictated by legalized

>>> drug/health care sharks

>>> that know they can charge the highest prices in the

>>> world and get away with

>>> it.

>>

>> Well, that is a far more fundamental issue that

>> underlies why so many people can't afford health care.

>> To implement a socialized system that these sharks are

>> still in control of is a simple-minded proposition

>> indeed.

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ---------------------------------

>> Got a little couch potato?

>> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

ok so since stevia cannot be used in the United States then just import it

and don't tell anyone what you're importing.

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

>>>

>>> The United States ranks 41st in the world for life expectancy from birth

>>> and

>>> the total cost is twice as much per capita then any other country. The

>>> U.S.

>>> healthcare system is bankrupting individuals and our government. The

>>> U.S.

>>> has enough horror stories about our healthcare to fill a 1000 novels. We

>>> need a single payer healthcare system.

>>> Leveille

>>>

>>> Ringas wrote:

>>>

>>> --- polo wrote:

>>>

>>>> ,

>>>>

>>>> I am sure there is no perfect health care system

>>>> out there, but you are

>>>> lucky to have the safety net you have. There will

>>>> always be disgruntled

>>>> patients, no matter what system. No system is

>>>> perfect.

>>>

>>> This has nothing to do with disgruntled patients. It

>>> has to do with people being denied the liberty to

>>> choose the form of medical treatment they want, and

>>> being forced to buy into a system that brings

>>> everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

>>>

>>>> You apparently have

>>>> no idea what it would be like to finance expensive

>>>> hospital stays in the

>>>> USA. I was in the hospital in the early 1990s for a

>>>> spinal cord injury and

>>>> my expenses were well over $150,000 in a few weeks.

>>>> Had I not had private

>>>> insurance, I would have been ruined for the reminder

>>>> of my life.

>>>

>>> Since your insurance paid for your treatment, it is

>>> apparent that you also have no idea what it's like to

>>> finance an expensive hospital stay.

>>>

>>>> I know of

>>>> countless less fortunate people who were ruined,

>>>> lost every thing they

>>>> worked their lives for and they died from cancer any

>>>> way. Their families

>>>> came out of it, destitute.

>>>

>>> A more fundamental question is why were you able to

>>> afford insurance, but they weren't? Also, if America

>>> was truly the land of the free, there wouldn't be a

>>> system in place where you're stuck with only two

>>> choices; insurance or destitution.

>>>

>>>> You have no idea how

>>>> fortunate you are to live in

>>>> a country that has at least some type of safety net

>>>> for those that may need

>>>> it.

>>>

>>> Actually, I do know how fortunate I am to live in a

>>> country that has a safety net, but we're not talking

>>> about a safety net. We're talking about whether

>>> people should be responsible for their own lives and

>>> whether they should have the maximum amount of freedom

>>> to choose how they're going to live, and how they're

>>> going to receive medical treatment, and also whether

>>> they're going to be protected from being defrauded by

>>> insurance companies. 's film was about people

>>> who have insurance, but are being shafted by their

>>> insurance companies.

>>>

>>>> As far as your opinion on M. , I say, you

>>>> simply do not know him.

>>>

>>> And how many times have you been over to his house for

>>> a cup of tea or a beer? Or do you perhaps think you

>>> know him because you've seen his films?

>>>

>>>> Have you actually seen his work?

>>>

>>> Yes, I've seen his last three films, and probably some

>>> bits of some of his other films.

>>>

>>>> He has stood up

>>>> for the little guy for

>>>> years.

>>>> If you want to call him a socialist, go

>>>> ahead, but you are the

>>>> " propagandist " in this regard.

>>>

>>> That's what socialists do; with good intentions, they

>>> stand up for for one special interest group of people,

>>> what you call the little guy, instead of standing up

>>> for all people to have equal rights and maximum

>>> freedom. It's no different than what the elitists do.

>>>

>>>> I think, if you

>>>> actually saw SICKO, you

>>>> would know he really did question the mechanism of

>>>> why the USA health care

>>>> is so expensive. He goes into great detail how

>>>> politicians are bought to

>>>> protect big Pharm's profits. He goes into further

>>>> detail of why costs in the

>>>> USA are so out of control with no checks & balances.

>>>

>>> I did see it, and like I said, he whitewashes over the

>>> more fundamental issues. The fundamental issue here,

>>> and in most other issues is freedom, a subject you

>>> show little understanding or appreciation for.

>>> America as the the land of the free with your

>>> celebrated constitution has become a SICKO joke. If

>>> and others focused their energies on restoring

>>> true freedom, issues like health care would naturally

>>> resolve.

>>>

>>>> I never perceived the

>>>> theme from any of his documentaries that he is

>>>> trying to tell us what we

>>>> should do, he is only showing another side to the

>>>> story which needs to be

>>>> shown.

>>>

>>> As I said before, he's very crafty at his art, and I'm

>>> not surprised at all the you can't perceive his

>>> manipulation. If I remember correctly, he admitted

>>> that his goal with Fahrenheit 9/11 was to sway the

>>> election. Yes, he does show another side to the

>>> story, but the way in which he shows it is in a manner

>>> that manipulates our emotions. I myself have been

>>> emotionally moved by his films, even while consciously

>>> being aware that he's manipulating me. He's very good

>>> at that.

>>>

>>>> To you and Dr. G, who seems to think Canadians

>>>> prefer our health system,

>>>> I sure don't see any Canadians coming to the USA's

>>>> pharmacies to buy drugs.

>>>> True, the wealthy ones may come across for expensive

>>>> procedures not offered

>>>> at home, but you will have to prove to me that this

>>>> is a common occurrence,

>>>> otherwise, I just don't believe it and it has not

>>>> been by perception from

>>>> those Canadians, I have known.

>>>

>>> Nobody said that Canadians prefer your system, but I

>>> would be willing to wager that most of us would like

>>> the freedom to choose beyond the scraps that are

>>> handed down to us by the government. As things are

>>> now, I can use my money on all sorts of things that

>>> are ruinous to my health, but I can use my money to

>>> buy better health care than what the government

>>> offers. I can buy insurance and better care for my

>>> cat, but not myself.

>>>

>>>> At any rate, you are

>>>> really missing the

>>>> point, is not saying he has the answer to any

>>>> thing, only that every

>>>> USA citizen deserves to have minimal health care

>>>> without losing his life

>>>> savings.

>>>

>>> If that's the only point he was trying to make, then

>>> he shouldn't have held up systems like the Canadian

>>> one, where we're stuck with a monopoly and are taxed

>>> through the nose to support it. Having a minimal

>>> " safety net " as you call it would be a good thing, but

>>> anything beyond that is a violation of liberty. You

>>> can't have justice for one person at the expense of

>>> another.

>>>

>>>> We live in a country dictated by legalized

>>>> drug/health care sharks

>>>> that know they can charge the highest prices in the

>>>> world and get away with

>>>> it.

>>>

>>> Well, that is a far more fundamental issue that

>>> underlies why so many people can't afford health care.

>>> To implement a socialized system that these sharks are

>>> still in control of is a simple-minded proposition

>>> indeed.

>>>

>>> Regards,

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> ---------------------------------

>>> Got a little couch potato?

>>> Check out fun summer activities for kids.

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

You can use it in the States, you cannot advertise it as a sweetener.

Therein is the issue. You can use Rife, but you had best not advertise that

you can treat or cure a disease with it. In 1911(?)the FDA put out an edict

that said, " Only doctors (MD's) can diagnose a disease and only a

prescription pharmaceutical can treat or cure a disease. That was the

beginning of the problems and it has gone down hill from there.

Old story of an orange or any form of citrus fruit you choose. For over 400

years it has been common knowledge that citrus fruits are " the " effective

treatment for scurvy. Now with the 1911 ruling of the FDA, if you were to go

out and stand on any street corner, hold up a piece of citrus fruit and

proclaim, " This is an orange/grapefruit/lemon/etc.... and by eating it you

can treat and cure scurvy, " you could go to jail for claiming that a

non-pharmaceutical substance can treat or cure a disease. That is the

reality and the stupidity of the laws we live under.

So if you want to market stevia as a sweetener, go for it. If you want to

market citrus fruit as a cure for scurvy, go for it. If you want to

advertise that your RIFE machine will treat and cure diseases, go for

it...just leave a forwarding address so we can all write to you.

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, Ph.D.

http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

ok so since stevia cannot be used in the United States then just import it

and don't tell anyone what you're importing.

Josh

email: jkenn337@...

msn: kenn6498ku@...

AOL: kutztownstudent

skype: jkenn337

RE: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

> Well, if you want to find out whether or not it is approved because it

> works, I suggest you set up shop, advertise and see what happens. Just

> drop

> a note as to where they stick you in prison and if it is in the

> neighborhood

> I will drop by. Otherwise I do promise I will write a letter or two.

> Whether it works or not is irrelevant. The FDA is not interested in facts

[Guest guest]

This thread has certainly been interesting. Its interesting

how " government " is perceived by many of the respondents. Surely a

review of the history of the practice of medicine in various

countries is worth reviewing. Government run services might mean

something quite different to people in various countries. A consensus

in most western countries would admit to partial democratization of

medical services. I'm sure the practice in prior times is that

doctors could only be afforded by the rich. The poorer classes who

needed service relied on the benificence of their employers or lords.

Maybe times haven't changed much at all but it's worth remembering

that socialized medicine has been hard won in many countries through

much pain and suffering.

But when we talk of government services, are we all talking about the

same thing? If I were to make a case for the role of socialized

medicine in US history where would I begin? Would the AMA's history,

the role of the FDA and close ties with BigPharma be relevant? Could

it be reasonably suggested that the record of the US government is

more intimately involved with big business interests than with those

of the voting public? I'm familiar with some of the rhetoric of

business interests who would lose significant power (and probably

their backbones!) if the public were ever sufficiently informed and

allowed to partake in government - despite our increased access to

information over the past couple of decades, this hasn't improved our

access in decision making processes!

In response to the previous posters insistence that government run

services must by definition be inefficient and limiting in choices,

all I can say is that doesn't have to be the way. At the very least a

government run service does not profit from the public ill-health.

Regards to all,

Stenhouse

> >

> > While this is off topic I shall indulge once more. We

> > already have a government health care system and its

> > called Medicare. From what I have experienced so far

> > Medicare is the best health insurance I've either

> > experienced or heard about compared with others. The

> > idea of health care for profit by which other health

> > insurance companies run has led to needless suffering

> > and death from for profit agencies. I do believe we

> > need insurance reform if we are not to go the way of

> > socialized medicine for all. We need to embrace

> > alternatives as well as allopathic care. It would not

> > do us harm to study other countries that have good

> > health care and dedicate our tax dollars to that rather

> > than rebuilding other countries, bigger and better

> > monuments to wars etc. While you WILL find some

> > lackluster systems in other countries it usually is not

> > for its existence of socialized medicine itself but for

> > corruption. Government control in some agencies is not

> > necessarily an evil but only when it's not done right

> > does it share it reputation for money wasting,

> > corruption and stupidity. Lets not through out the

> > baby with the bathwater but address the pot holes of a

> > system and correct the machine so it may run better.

> >

> > medusa

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with that fact, that if people want help, they will find it.

My mother suffers tremendously with Rheumatoid arthritis every day and I

send her information that may help with the inflammation but she doesn't use

it. So when she complains about the pain, I have to just say, " Well, I hope

you feel better " . I even have a Rife Machine that she could come use and

she doesn't even do that.

~Dene

-- Re: Re: Sicko ( ) and US Health Care

What is missed most in all these posts is that those who want help, get it.

Those who want sympathy and have victimitis get that.

The mistake is by those who give the sympathy rather than help.

Being a doctor for 27 years and investigating this phenomenon deeply

you begin to realize that those who want help find it offered and get

it.

Those who seem to want help, find it and do not get it are almost all

holding on to something creating illness because of a perception it is

needed. Do not tell me it does not make sense, I know that, they do

not.

You have not lived this until you find a kid with asthma who, upon

being asked who in his life had asthma talks and cries about the

failure and death of his grandmother who had difficulty breathing.

Then, realizing he was carrying this on since the age of 4 (he was

then 18) immediately stopped needing medication, chiropractic

adjustments and anything else to breathe just fine.

People then ask me if I think others are doing this on purpose. The

answer is no, but they ARE doing it.

There is knowing, willing cause -- unknowing, unwilling cause, and

every step you can think of between those extremes.

People who do not get help and well are causing it though they might

no know it or want it.

--

Dr. Jutkowitz www.ADVBIOSTRUCTURALCORR.com

Advanced BioStructural Correction™

618 Stratfield Rd, Fairfield, CT 06825

Have an opinion about ABC™ or something else but have not investigated

to get all the data? I enjoy this statement from JFK:

" Too often we. . . enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort

of thought. "