Re: Jan

[Guest guest]

Heidi said: Love to you, sweet soft gentle beautiful, Jan.

[FB] You could sure turn that one around. )

[Guest guest]

" Heidi " wrote:

> Dear Jan,

>

> I have been so in your business and for that i am sorry.

I am sorry too when I abandon myself and jump into someone else's

business. I miss the mark. I think that I am hurting them when the

only person I can ever injure is me.

>

> I respect your growth and integrity in knowing that you need to be

alone at this time.

Gosh Heidi I'm totally clueless about what I need. Truth is I'm never

alone or I'm always alone - just can't figure out the difference! I

accept whatever it is right now - I'm alone with a diet Dr. Pepper. I

think the whole object of this earth game is loving it no matter how

IT show up - alone/with...with/alone....and on and on.

>

> Love to you, sweet soft gentle beautiful, Jan. I love that you are

here, as you, as me.

I do have a problem with this above line. Residual story line has it

so that for me it is so much easier to believe your not so nice post

to me as that seemed more authentic and real. I happen to like

authentic and real - I find I learn a lot more by staying with that.

I'm not feelin' the love in these lines - doesn't mean it's not there

- just can't feel it. That's about me - not you....

Thanks Heidi - Jan

>

> Heidi

[Guest guest]

You did me a big favor in writing the below, Jan. My first reaction was to feel

badly,

that you doubted my sincerity. And then, very quickly, i realized how right you

are

when you say that your reaction to my post is not about me but about you. Your

having an easier time feeling my " not so nice post " than this one is sad for me

until i

realize that not-so-nice and nice are also just labels/meanings/stories i tack

onto

something.

For what it's worth, it was in writing that last line to you when my heart just

melted

into soft tears and i could have just embraced and kissed your sweet face all

over.

The words before that were my reporting my realizations to you, telling you " out

loud " my part in what had been happening. When i went to sign off, i was just

going

to write " Love, Heidi " and the other just came flowing out. Huge release. And

love. For

that moment, pure love without needing or wanting anything to be different. Was

it

love for you or love for me? I ask... And you know what, it doesn't matter. I

felt it

toward you and in that moment my whole being was filled with it, so, you--me--,

in

this case (and always?) same.

I know you use a lot of other modalities for your growth, Jan, and i've been

reading a

book that, if you haven't read it, i think you might really like it. It's called

" Awareness "

by de Mello. It really emphasizes stuff that says, for me. I'm

very happy

though, to have the wonderful tool of the 4 questions though... without those,

some

of what he says would be frustrating b/c i'd be like, " yeah, but how?! " Anyhow,

take it

or leave it, but i thought of you as i read it.

Love to you, sweet Jan, whether you feel it or not (I don't always fell it,

but did

yesterday and do now)

Heidi

> > Love to you, sweet soft gentle beautiful, Jan. I love that you are

> here, as you, as me.

>

> I do have a problem with this above line. Residual story line has it

> so that for me it is so much easier to believe your not so nice post

> to me as that seemed more authentic and real. I happen to like

> authentic and real - I find I learn a lot more by staying with that.

>

> I'm not feelin' the love in these lines - doesn't mean it's not there

> - just can't feel it. That's about me - not you....

>

> Thanks Heidi - Jan

>

>

> >

> > Heidi

[Guest guest]

frank wrote:

> Heidi said: Love to you, sweet soft gentle beautiful, Jan.

>

> [FB] You could sure turn that one around. )

.....do you remember telling me how much you loved me? And then

you felt " picked " on my me? Got a little crusty in your reply and

joined Heidi et al.

What I love is neutrality. Enlightened numbness. I have the

beautiful defect of not being able to fully access my feelings but

that is coming along nicely, but also I read and I really believe

neither - the " attack " or the " sweet words " . But for me the " attack "

appears to be the more genuine of the two...but I still feel joy in

either experience. Most unusual for me.

Fascinating place to be.....it allows me a clarity of seeing that any

shift in " reaction " or " feelings " allow me to see me move away from

the love or buy into the fear.

The gift of my childhood + is that I so get that no matter how

it shows up - it is I who have the choice to see IT as either love or

fear. Wanting it to be different than it is I suspect that that is an

act of my fear-based Ego....

Blessings - Jan

[Guest guest]

frank wrote:

> Heidi said: Love to you, sweet soft gentle beautiful, Jan.

>

> [FB] You could sure turn that one around. )

.....do you remember telling me how much you loved me? And then

you felt " picked " on my me? Got a little crusty in your reply and

joined Heidi et al.

[FB] Yep I remember all of that.

But for me the " attack " appears to be the more genuine of the two...but I still

feel joy in either experience. Most unusual for me.

[FB] You do occur to me as predisposed to believe the negative in my expressions

to you. There have been times when it seemed that you just couldn't let in the

positive and other times when you saw negative which wasn't even there. And this

isn't about being right or wrong. I'm just saying that's how it seems from over

here. You might consider it and try it on the thought that perhaps there is more

positive regard for you than you let in and less negative regard than you

perceive. Even if I'm wrong, it seems that that game couldn't hurt.

" When I walk into a room I already know that everyone there already loves me. I

just don't expect them to realize it yet. " --bk

Fascinating place to be.....it allows me a clarity of seeing that any shift in

" reaction " or " feelings " allow me to see me move away from the love or buy into

the fear.

The gift of my childhood + is that I so get that no matter how it shows up

- it is I who have the choice to see IT as either love or fear.

[FB] There you go. It could be that we literally create it as love or fear by

our attitude towards it (outside stimulus).

" I know that you know that I love you. What I want you to get is that I know

that you love me. " --Warner Erhard

Maybe whether I feel loved or not is the result of my stand.

" Things are neither good nor bad, but thinking makes them so. " --Shakespeare

So of course you love me Jan. I appologize for doing you the disservice of ever

believing that you didn't. ;o)

Love,

(whose job is not to un-disappoint you) (Thanks again for that quote. It's

really meant a lot in my life.)

Wanting it to be different than it is I suspect that that is an act of my

fear-based Ego....

Blessings - Jan

[Guest guest]

> In your emails lately you sound like a yogi.. equal minded... uneffected by

> the outer appearances...

> A brother told me.. we can only have our feelings hurt when we are in the

> ego...

> the soul or spirit can never have its feelings hurt...

> I wish I was there... guess I like playing sad.. still... and in the ego..I

> hurt my feelings ....

> thanks roslyn

>

>

I don't think I'm a yogi.... - I've opened yet another door of stuff and out it

flies!!!!

Is this an endless process or what. Peel that onion!!!!! Suddenly I'm

realizing

that I'm not all that removed from Tabrina's place - I have areas where I so get

it and then I'm right there in despair with Tabrina as I am allowed the grace to

see what's really true - or how deeply I'm buying in to this illusion. I'm

positively fascinated as I take yet another step back and watch the game at a

whole new level - it's scary and unknown. I have a suspicion that at each

level you get to sit for a while and then suddenly there you go again at a

deeper level - that's why whatever is going on internally is infinitely more

fascinating than chasing some outer thing at least for me - for now. How

comforting to know that there is a place inside where feelings cannot be hurt.

Jan

[Guest guest]

" marianne " wrote:

> Jan,

>

> Is it true that if I call you wise that I am trying to get love from

> you? Wow! Nope don't need love from Jan...got all here now...just

> seeing it in the mirror sometimes and I call it wise!

Thanks for asking. I don't know! Geez, I'm realizing that what someone says

can be wise - but the person themself???? Interesting. I notice that people

appear to prefer truth in agreement form. People appear to like to connect

through social ways that appear ingenuine to me because if I were saying

them - that's exactly what they would be. reflection of me only.

>

> I see Jan as trying to push away love until she feels it for herself...

Not seeing this either. so this must be what marianne would be doing if Jan's

words were coming from marianne....

>

> Totally in love with Jan,

You're right, this appears delightfully artificial. None of the boys from India

or

or anyone *there* said this to me - they just were this to me. Saying it

somehow misses the mark for me... don't know if that makes sense ...just

looking at it...thanks Jan

[Guest guest]

Hi Jan,

You wrote:

> Is this an endless process or what. Peel that onion!!!!!

> I'm positively fascinated as I take yet another step back and watch

the game at a whole new level - it's scary and unknown. I have a

suspicion that at each level you get to sit for a while and then

suddenly there you go again at a deeper level -

-------------

You are like an onion that has many layers.

You need to be peeled.

The process is endless.

Is that true?

There are different levels?

How do you know?

Where is *deep*?

With love,

*mona

[Guest guest]

" Mona " wrote:

>

> Hi Jan,

>

> You wrote:

> > Is this an endless process or what. Peel that onion!!!!!

>

> > I'm positively fascinated as I take yet another step back and watch

> the game at a whole new level - it's scary and unknown. I have a

> suspicion that at each level you get to sit for a while and then

> suddenly there you go again at a deeper level -

> -------------

>

> You are like an onion that has many layers.

> You need to be peeled.

> The process is endless.

> Is that true?

>

> There are different levels?

> How do you know?

> Where is *deep*?

>

> With love,

> *mona

I love that you wrote me back and invited me to look at this. I'm

just noticing my experience....for me the levels are true right now -

ultimately just a story about all this illusion - one level - -

Reality - another level, but I'm a long way of inquiring my way out of

that one.

I don't know who wrote about me " defending " my stories. All I can be

is exactly who I am - the feeling of depth is a feeling I sometimes

have especially during a moment of surrender to this moment. None of

these stories are stressful for me at this point.

In fact the idea of inquiring myself out of them - dropping them - is

stressful. Guess I'm not ready to toss in this towel yet. May that's

a defense - could be...Thanks also for the mention of Tolle's new

book...Yes, I've already ordered it too....Thank you Mona, Jan

[Guest guest]

Glenn Godin wrote:

>

>

> Love, Glenn

>

> Who's buying?

You men from the Nawth...Lao Tse say only man born north of mason

dixon line would ask such a question - page 64, paragraph 7, line 2 -

tranlated by Rush Limbaugh.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jan. I had to sit with this a while before I knew what I wanted to

say...

> " Carol " wrote:

> > Dear Jan,

> >

> > I appreciate your honesty; in this moment I celebrate it. I have a

> > confrontative way of trying to understand stuff, have ya noticed?!!?

>

> Nah - I don't do confrontational stuff myself - *smile*.

>

> I had a big ah - ha while reading your post to me about love being

> just a story.

>

> I don't view all stories as being harmful - ultimately you have to

> drop them all - every one of em - but what I find stressful is having

> to drop em all right here right now on this board - that's the

> expectation I get.

Where do you experience that expectation coming from?

> NO story is honored here mentality. For me, when I do that, I begin

> to be untrue to myself. I find it much more comfortable to go - yeah

> - I believe the story about three brains and that you can change your

> reality by having an alkaline ph blood system and brain research on

> enlightenment that say that thoughts come from emotion. I know they

> are all stories and I get to use them until they become traps and then

> I move on - but for me today these are helpful stories. It's about

> being okay with myself where I am right here - not having to be

> somewhere else.

Yes. My experience here on the list has been one of seeing through

stories I find uncomfortable and playing with and enjoying the ones

where I find laughter and fun.

> When they cease being helpful TO ME, I inquire and drop em. But for

> where I am right now - just like Tim - these stories are helpful and

> make a big difference in what's happening for me.

>

> I haven't loved my life since I was alone and little standing on a

> farm's hillside looking at the expansive countryside realizing how

> wonderful it was simply to be alive and breathing and free - that is

> what's coming alive for me all over again - no stories - just me -

> looking at the magic of life.....

Cool.

> ....and yes Carol - I so cherish my integrity because when I lean into

> it - I like where I go -

Tom

[Guest guest]

Tom Barron wrote:

>

> Where do you experience that expectation coming from?

The expectation that all stories must be dropped comes from me

pressuring me to drop 'em all - geez Tom can't YOU feel MY pressure?

>

>

> Yes. My experience here on the list has been one of seeing through

> stories I find uncomfortable and playing with and enjoying the ones

> where I find laughter and fun.

Undoing is serious business Tom. Those stories you are laughing at -

they are just happy traps as opposed to painful, sad, angry, fearful,

resentful traps. *smile* - Jan

[Guest guest]

> Tom Barron wrote:

>

> >

> > Where do you experience that expectation coming from?

>

> The expectation that all stories must be dropped comes from me

> pressuring me to drop 'em all - geez Tom can't YOU feel MY pressure?

Oh, sorry, I wasn't paying attention. Now I do.

> > Yes. My experience here on the list has been one of seeing through

> > stories I find uncomfortable and playing with and enjoying the ones

> > where I find laughter and fun.

>

> Undoing is serious business Tom. Those stories you are laughing at -

> they are just happy traps as opposed to painful, sad, angry, fearful,

> resentful traps. *smile* - Jan

Aha! Yes, I see. Sticking my nose into *this* mousetrap is painful,

but that one over there just tickles.

Thank you, Jan

Tom

[Guest guest]

> >>If I am not the " doer, " it's not my freakin' problem;

> > let God deal with it. :)

> >

>

> Congratulations - you are now a full card-carrying Christian - ya know

> Jesus died for you and you need never have another responsible thought

> for the rest of your life and all thoughts are sanctified!!!! *smile*<<

>

> Is that what Christians believe? I can't say as that's my

experience of the

> ones I've spoken with. And I know you are " joking, " but maybe there's

> fodder for a worksheet here?

>

> Love, Carol

>

>

I've never met a Christian - met lots of folks who had stories about

being a Christian - does that mean I still need to do a worksheet -

*smile* - Jan

[Guest guest]

Jan,

Well with my daughter she took the Tylenol when we could talk. She

chose not to talk. I have been having these late night talks going on

for a long long time, and she did not. That was disturbing because I

naturally thought that if she had the chance she would. She didn't she

chose to try to kill her liver.

She felt ugly worthless, stuck in a mature looking body that she hated,

her dad had come on to her, she could not find anything that I could

give her.

Oh I have talks with my girls that my mother is not capable of having

with me. She has too many demons and if we bring up bad feelings she

just says " well I was abused as a kid, no one could be as abused as I

was, I lived in fear " and she can't hear another word. She can't take

the pain of any of it. I understand that, she is not ready, it hurts

her. It always hurt her. And perhaps this is my husband. It hurts him

too. My therapist said that I married the worst parts of both parents!

LOL My dad was an orphan who was abused daily, my mom was " Miss

England " and used being objectified to get what she wanted. They both

were volatile and didn't ever get their perceived needs met as kids and

were stuck in trying as adults. They had kids but were both still the

kids saying " hey look at me " so that is what their kids did! We

parented them. I met a husband who also wants that. The kids, the wife,

we take care and parent him. No responsibility for him as he is needy.

If he makes a mistake we take the blame and he has someone to help him,

protect him....well it stopped and he left!

As far as my childhood? I had the most imaginative childhood you can

fathom. I had more pretend friends and adventures! I went to over 18

schools by the time I was 12! I had met so many people and while I

often just watched I got a good eye full. I would not change a thing

about it. For some reason that childhood has taught me how to love my

kids, and appreciate a whole lot of things, yeah, it might have confused

me a little, but on the whole I am less confused and I would not change

any part of me, I want to be less self serving and more clear in my

actions, but at least I recognize that and I am open to admitting it and

try not to blame anyone else for that. So when I do not hear my mom, I

see it is not her fault for talking to me in triangular communication

styles, it is my fault for judging that she will somehow drag me in and

hurt me so now, no fear, no dragging in and just maybe a little quieter

in my head. I find that my mind sure can size up a situation way too

quick instead of just being present. I can work on that! So mostly I

get the late teen chats, it is really warm to sit on my bed, or lie on

the floor just having " chick chat " . I am very lucky. And the one who

took the Tylenol, she didn't think I had any answers. I don't.... the

bottom line is that they talk to me to hear themselves and I hear them

too.

Lovingly,

April

[Guest guest]

> My therapist said that I married the worst parts of both parents!

>LOL

Is that funny? Really? I could do the work on my beliefs " April

should not laugh at things that hurt her - April should manipulate

her world to be safe etc " . But April is just a concept - I vaguely

wish her well, amongst the six billion others on the planet.

What has juice for me is : " I must manipulate to get what I want "

Is it true? - something inside is screaming YES I should - I must - I

have to. When I believe it - supertense - on emergency alert,

terrified I want be able to do it. If I didn't believe it? What a

relief, but very vulnerable, very open - something to stay with and

quietly observe. TA I can trust the universe to give exactly what is

good for me. I'd love to believe that - dare I? Is it too good to be

true? Tim

[Guest guest]

Tim,

yes, if you think about it... why would anyone want to marry their

parents in the first place and then to pick the worst parts... I find

that hilarious! How absurd! I mean I had a choice... here is the

clincher... what if I picked the best parts and my therapist only thinks

they are the worst ones? LOL It is just a funny statement.

It is kind of like him saying well you picked a cat that you thought

would bark. And it hunts elk! LOL or you chose a puppy that you

thought would act like one of those commercial dogs in front of a

fireplace and this one wants to catch Frisbees. It was just funny. No

one in their right mind would chose the worst parts of their parents...

so I wonder what that says! Either my therapist was very confused.. .

and I think it is possible... or I have been, same deal. And the way I

see it, I am here so I must have gotten the best parts! Thems my genes!

LOL

April

[Guest guest]

Jan,

What part of California do you live in? I live in the Bay Area,

ez. Shirley

[Guest guest]

Jan:

Thanks so much for the info. re: the difference between Assisted

Living and a nh. Here in Canada I don't think we have an Assisted

Living facility. The closest thing to that is a retirement home

which really is little more than a condo for the elderly.

The more I think about it the more I think it's time for him to be

placed in a dementia unit. I mentioned this to the nurse today and

she seemed pretty non-committal. This is the same nurse who I spoke

to last weekend re: my father falling and him not being changed.

She doesn't seem too eager to listen to us.

Unfortunately, she's the in-charge nurse and I was told by the

Facility Coordinator to arrange a Care Conference for my father

through her. I intend to do that tomorrow. Today I was too busy

arranging for a physio-therapist to come to see my dad and meeting

with the Facility Coordinator. I have to pay for the physio

therapist because my dad has been waiting for one paid for by the

province since mid-October (good old Canadian health and social

services - gotta love them!). My dad can no longer afford to wait

and if we want the province to help us pay for his wheelchair, we

need a physio therapist to do an assessment re: what is the best

chair for my father. The nh rustled up a chair for my dad today but

it's not in good shape or the right size for him.

During the Care Conference (which the family, resident, dietary

consultants, nursing and physical therapy staff as well as the Home's

administration attend), I plan on being honest about my thoughts re:

my dad's care and needs and I will do whatever we all agree is best

for my father.

Lots to do before returning to work next Monday and I've just

discovered that my kids have a day off from school on Friday which

was a day I was going to spend doing all sorts of last-

minute " stuff " . Oh well.

Hope you're having a good day Janet and that things are relatively

calm for your husband today. Oh and by the way, my dad is pretty

clear re: where the bathroom is during the day but on some nights and

early morning hours he pretty much pees on his window sill so I

completely understand your story re: your husband's wandering pee

places.

Abby

[Guest guest]

Jan:

Now they're posting but all out of order....

Like I said before ...weird stuff going on with my computer. And

like I've said for years, sometimes these things are seriously

overrated!!!

Anyway, sorry for the multiple posts. I didn't want you to think I

wasn't responding so I responded in triplicate.. just in case. Just

part of my OCD I suppose.

Thanks again,

Abby

[Guest guest]

Dear Jan:

It is so touching that your husband is holding it so you can sleep. Are you

sure it is from fear? I think he just realized what it was doing to you. He

is doing what he can to help. I a glad you are feeling better now that you

are sleeping more. Give a big hug to that wonderful husband of yours for me.

Be well,

Josie

[Guest guest]

Jan:

I loved the quotations. Every day I put a quotation on my blackboard

and you have just added to my ever-growing " stash " of great

quotations.

I love the one from Lola May re: knowing what we are stuffing. So

true.

Thanks for thinking of me. Your quotations are printing as I type

this response to you.

Abby

By the way, going back was strangely conforting in spite of me

missing my dad all day. However, in the long run, I think it is the

best thing for all of us.

Abby

[Guest guest]

> " Sometimes we are blinded by our own struggles and

> taking time to focus elsewhere can only help us see

> our way more clearly in our daily life. " Jan Colello

>

That is so apropos!!! Thanks for that...

Abby

[Guest guest]

Donna,

Wanted to agree big time that we should continue to talk away with our LO's.

Some days you can barely get a word out of my mom but I just keep on yacking

up a storm regardless. Even during times where it looks as though she is

asleep and I'm talking to my dad I'll look over at mom and she is smiling

about something funny we were discussing.

Gosh, this reminds me of the beginning stages where mom would have these

almost manic stages where she would talk and talk and you couldn't get a

word in edgewise. Now its not very much at all. I miss hearing moms voice

when shes having her quiet days.

Courage

Re: Re: Jan

>Abby,

>

>Sometimes it is to hard to eat for the dementia patient. I use to watch

>some of the patients eating in the nh, and the process is just to hard.

>Mom would eat all I fed her. Course she liked home made food better,

>and if that is what it takes and your Mom will do it never mind what

>they say at the nh. On the other hand, maybe he has decided he will

>chose his life course. You may need to support him in his decision which

>will be the hardest thing you ever had to do.

>

>If you go after school and he is not in a talking mood, you can still

>explain your day to him. They understand a lot more than they are given

>credit for, I think. It may just be difficult for him to talk back.

>Mom could do one word or short sentence answers. Maybe you need to ask

>him if he wants to hear about your day. It might work. I have heard

>that the basic message they all understand is that you love him. And

>you telling him about your day in a loving way, may be just what he

>needs to hear.

>

>Donna

>

>

>Welcome to LBDcaregivers.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jan:

I'm not surprised that it's all part of the LBD. The only thing is

is that we're not bothered by his spilling of the food - he is. I

think he's embarrassed by it all. Either that or he just doesn't

think it's worth the bother anymore.

The LBD is treacherous. I know my dad also has a brain tumor but the

LBD is a much stonger force than the tumor on his cerebellum.

Abby