bed wetting

[Guest guest]

my son also went thru a spell of wetting. he is 6 1/2 and in 1st grade. we

first thought it was a bladder infect (he is non-verbal). test was neg. there

was no change in meds. we thought it was sensory since he has major issues.

dr g thought it might be bladder spasms and that a warm bath would help.

anyway, it eventually stopped on its own. vicki in los angeles

[Guest guest]

----Original Message Follows----

From: Jerri Gann <njgann@...>

Reply-

< >

Subject: Bed wetting

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:51:47 -0800

I know there has been many discussions on this but I have spent most of

the morning trying to get into the site. It keeps saying I am

not a member yet it recognizes my email address. I searched through Dr

G's site too. Anyway, my question is, What have you all found to be some

of the causes of your children bed wetting if they have not done this in

a long time. My son now is wetting the bed every night and he wet his

pants at school today. He is seven and in first grade. He has not done

this since early kindergarten so I am stunned. I'm wondering if it could

be medical or behavioral. We have not changed meds in quite awhile. I do

think he needs a new anti-fungal as we have been on Nizerol close to six

months now. My son is also on Famvir, Wellbutrin, Celexa, Triaminic,

Flo-nase and Culturelle lactobacillus. In input would be greatly

appreciated. Thanks, Jerri Gann

Hi Jerri,

My son tends to have problems when he's dealing with a bacterial

infection/OCD. It's always possible that the probiotic could be a problem

by itself or in combination with some other type of immune stimulus. I

definitely wouldn't give this bacteria to any child with PANDAS.

Cheryl

Culturelle is manufactured in gelatin capsules providing 20 billion colony

forming units (CFUs) per capsule of Lactobacillus GG.

J Leukoc Biol. 2003 Sep; 74(3): 395-402.

Lactobacilli and streptococci induce inflammatory chemokine production in

human macrophages that stimulates Th1 cell chemotaxis.

Veckman V, Miettinen M, Matikainen S, Lande R, Giacomini E, Coccia EM,

Julkunen I.

Department of Microbiology, National Public Health Institute, Helsinki,

Finland. ville.veckman@...

Macrophages have a central role in innate-immune responses to bacteria. In

the present work, we show that infection of human macrophages with

Gram-positive pathogenic

Streptococcus pyogenes or nonpathogenic Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG enhances

mRNA expression of inflammatory chemokine ligands CCL2/monocyte

chemoattractant protein-1 (MCP-1), CCL3/macrophage-inflammatory

protein-1alpha (MIP-1alpha), CCL5/regulated on activation, normal T

expressed and secreted, CCL7/MCP-3, CCL19/MIP-3beta, and CCL20/MIP-3alpha

and CXC chemokine ligands CXCL8/interleukin (IL)-8, CXCL9/monokine induced

by interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), and CXCL10/IFN-inducible protein 10.

Bacteria-induced CCL2, CCL7, CXCL9, and CXCL10 mRNA expression was partially

dependent on ongoing protein synthesis.

The expression of these chemokines and of CCL19 was dependent on

bacteria-induced IFN-alpha/beta production. CCL19 and CCL20 mRNA expression

was up-regulated by IL-1beta or tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha), and

in addition, IFN-alpha together with TNF-alpha further enhanced CCL19 gene

expression. Synergy between IFN-alpha and TNF-alpha was also seen for CXCL9

and CXCL10 mRNA expression.

Bacteria-stimulated macrophage supernatants induced the migration of T

helper cell type 1 (Th1) cells, suggesting that in human macrophages, these

bacteria can stimulate efficient inflammatory chemokine gene expression

including those that recruit Th1 cells to the site of inflammation.

Furthermore, L. rhamnosus-induced Th1 chemokine production could in part

explain the proposed antiallergenic properties of this bacterium.

PMID: 12949243 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Food Prot. 2003 Mar; 66(3): 466-72. Links

Interactions of lactic acid bacteria with human intestinal epithelial cells:

effects on cytokine production.

Wallace TD, Bradley S, Buckley ND, Green- JM.

Department of Biology, Acadia University, Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada B0P

1X0.

As a participant in the mucosal immune response, the intestinal epithelial

cell must respond to a variety of stimuli, including lactic acid bacteria

(LAB) consumed in the diet. The objective of this study was to compare the

abilities of several strains of LAB to modulate cytokine secretion by human

intestinal epithelial cell (IEC) line HT-29. Certain strains of

Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Lactobacillus delbrueckii, and Lactobacillus

acidophilus suppressed the production of the chemokine RANTES by stimulated

HT-29 IEC, although the magnitude of this suppression varied depending on

the nature of the bacterial growth medium. Similarly, specific strains

showed growth condition-dependent suppression of HT-29 interleukin-8 (IL-8)

production. Strain-dependent effects were also seen for the suppression of

tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) and transforming growth factor beta

(TGF-beta) production. The binding of several of these bacterial strains to

the HT-29 cell line was also examined. Different strains were found to have

differing abilities to interact with IEC, with L. rhamnosus R0011 being the

strain that generally had the most extensive effects on HT-29 cytokine

production and also bound to HT-29 IEC most effectively. Modulation of IEC

cytokine production has the potential to profoundly affect the mucosal

microenvironment, influencing the immune response to pathogens and other

ingested antigens.

PMID: 12636302 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

: Salminen MK, Rautelin H, Tynkkynen S, Poussa T, Saxelin M, Valtonen V,

Jarvinen A.

Lactobacillus bacteremia, clinical significance, and patient outcome, with

special focus on probiotic L. rhamnosus GG.

Clin Infect Dis. 2004 Jan 1; 38(1): 62-9. Epub 2003 Dec 04.

PMID: 14679449 [PubMed - in process]

Scand J Infect Dis. 2003; 35(6-7): 404-8.

Six cases of Lactobacillus bacteraemia: identification of organisms and

antibiotic susceptibility and therapy.

Arpi M, Vancanneyt M, Swings J, Leisner JJ.

Arhus University Hospital, Skejby, Arhus, Denmark.

Six cases of bacteraemia in hospitalized patients, 5 with a depressed immune

status, were caused by lactobacilli. Sodium dodecyl sulfate-polyacrylamide

gel electrophoresis of whole-cell proteins and API 50 CH carbohydrate

patterns assigned the causative agents to the species Lactobacillus

rhamnosus, Lactobacillus curvatus, Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. lactis

and Lactobacillus paracasei subsp. paracasei.

Publication Types:

Case Reports

PMID: 12953954 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Notario R, Leardini N, Borda N, Gambande T, Cerutti H. Related Articles,

Links

[Hepatic abscess and bacteremia due to Lactobacillus rhamnosus]

Rev Argent Microbiol. 2003 Apr-Jun; 35(2): 100-1. Review. Spanish.

PMID: 12920992 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

Jerri,

We hav had same problem every time Celexa increases. We still having

trouble since Last time we tried the max dose of Celea about two or

three month ago. Too high dose of zoloft make him having trouble at

night too. Now he is having trouble because he is taking antibiatic

for trep throat.

He is only having trouble at night.

Mine is 9 and usually does not have trouble go to washroom.

Jin

> I know there has been many discussions on this but I have spent

most of

> the morning trying to get into the site. It keeps saying

I am

> not a member yet it recognizes my email address. I searched through

Dr

> G's site too. Anyway, my question is, What have you all found to be

some

> of the causes of your children bed wetting if they have not done

this in

> a long time. My son now is wetting the bed every night and he wet

his

> pants at school today. He is seven and in first grade. He has not

done

> this since early kindergarten so I am stunned. I'm wondering if it

could

> be medical or behavioral. We have not changed meds in quite awhile.

I do

> think he needs a new anti-fungal as we have been on Nizerol close

to six

> months now. My son is also on Famvir, Wellbutrin, Celexa,

Triaminic,

> Flo-nase and Culturelle lactobacillus. In input would be greatly

> appreciated. Thanks, Jerri Gann

[Guest guest]

Hi Jerri.

We just went through this with my 5 year old son, who has been toilet

trained since 2.5 and NEVER ever wet his bed, or even had an accident in 2

years. In his blood work we noticed that his creatinine was high on one of

Dr. G's metabolic panels that we do every 6 months or so. Since it was

high, we now test it every month and it has remained high. As creatinine

has to do with the kidney, it would seem that there was more stress on my

son's kidneys. As it didn't come down, even with increase in water

consumption and more frequent urination encouragement, Dr. G did mention

that it is most likely indicative of a viral issue. We have just recently

changed to Famvir from Valtrex as a side effect of Valtrex can be kidney

stress. Dr. G thinks that this in unlikely as he has never seen a child

have a negative kidney side effect from Valtrex. However, we have made the

change, and will continue to monitor the creatinine monthly. If it doesn't

come down , then we will know it is viral. As you are already on Famvir, I

would definitely run creatinine in your next bloodwork and check for

elevated levels. If that is the case, Dr. G might rule viral issues and

switch to Valtrex as it is I believe a slightly stronger anti viral. I

would definitely let his office know and request a creatinine test ASAP. I

also eliminated the Epsom salt baths, although Dr. G seemed to think that it

wouldn't likely have any effect on the kidney.

Good luck, it is a tough one, and a little frightening too.

Lori ,

Oakville, ON

> Bed wetting

>

>

> I know there has been many discussions on this but I have spent most of

> the morning trying to get into the site. It keeps saying I am

> not a member yet it recognizes my email address. I searched through Dr

> G's site too. Anyway, my question is, What have you all found to be some

> of the causes of your children bed wetting if they have not done this in

> a long time. My son now is wetting the bed every night and he wet his

> pants at school today. He is seven and in first grade. He has not done

> this since early kindergarten so I am stunned. I'm wondering if it could

> be medical or behavioral. We have not changed meds in quite awhile. I do

> think he needs a new anti-fungal as we have been on Nizerol close to six

> months now. My son is also on Famvir, Wellbutrin, Celexa, Triaminic,

> Flo-nase and Culturelle lactobacillus. In input would be greatly

> appreciated. Thanks, Jerri Gann

>

>

>

> Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

> the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

> opinion of the Research Institute.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jerri,

We have had this same problem with our son for about 6 months now. It goes away

and comes back. Dr. Goldberg doesn't seem to be too concerned with this, we

usually mention " frequent urination " in our updates. I also took him to his

regular Pediatrician and they did a urine test and NO INFECTION. She referred

us to a Urologist...we're seeing our regular GI dr. first. (by the way the

Gastroenterologist is not too concerned about it either). He says the meds Dr.

G prescribed are safe and shouldn't cause any of those side effects. We've

noticed that he gets the frequent urination when he is getting sick...it's very

hard to tell when my son gets sick because the only sign is crankiness and he

normally is cranky anyway.

Good luck! If you find out what is causing the " frequent urination " please let

me know!

THANKS!

Argie

Bed wetting

I know there has been many discussions on this but I have spent most of

the morning trying to get into the site. It keeps saying I am

not a member yet it recognizes my email address. I searched through Dr

G's site too. Anyway, my question is, What have you all found to be some

of the causes of your children bed wetting if they have not done this in

a long time. My son now is wetting the bed every night and he wet his

pants at school today. He is seven and in first grade. He has not done

this since early kindergarten so I am stunned. I'm wondering if it could

be medical or behavioral. We have not changed meds in quite awhile. I do

think he needs a new anti-fungal as we have been on Nizerol close to six

months now. My son is also on Famvir, Wellbutrin, Celexa, Triaminic,

Flo-nase and Culturelle lactobacillus. In input would be greatly

appreciated. Thanks, Jerri Gann

Responsibility for the content of this message lies strictly with

the original author(s), and is not necessarily endorsed by or the

opinion of the Research Institute.

[Guest guest]

Before my son was day-time potty-trained, he was dry through the night.

Over the past year, there have been some temporary bed-wetting times with a

medication or dosage change, usually involving the SSRI. Over a month ago,

he got sick. He's better now, but has been wetting the bed every night

since. In desperation to get a night's sleep without changing sheets, we

gave in last week and put him in a pull-up. He's been potty-trained since

last August, but one morning he woke up with a dry pull-up and I tried to

get him moving and immediately to the potty, but he stalled so he could wet

in his pull-up. Now (I guess because of the pull-up) he's wet a few times

in his underwear in the morning or right before bed. We quickly moved him

back into underwear overnight and changing wet sheets, but he's saying now

that he wants a pull-up. I had no idea he would backslide like this. When

does this bed wetting end? Has anyone else had such a problem with

medication and dosage changes? Or a child that just starts wetting the bed

when he's sick and doesn't stop once he's better? He took great pride in

being potty-trained and liked being clean and dry. What on earth is going

on?!

[Guest guest]

April,

You could try a couple of things :

1) some form of reinforcement every morning for staying dry then

fade to intermittent schedule, like in ABA therapy. Lots of positive

reinforcement and praise.

2) I have found with my son limiting water and making him go pee

right before he goes to bed helps alot with dryness and getting him

to go first thing when he wakes up as step 1 in his morning routine.

3) this will sound horrible but we night trained him with a

bedwetting alarm. He hated the sound of the alarm (which is quite

loud) and hates to wear it. It stops him pretty quickly from

reverting back.

4) Buy a bedwetting sheet to put underneath him at night while he

is in his underwear, so all you have to do is change that mat. It

should protect the sheets underneath. I bought these at Wal Mart or

you can get the alarm and sheets on the web at the bed wetting store.

I can't remember the exact address but if you do a google search

you'll find them.

Above all don't be hard on yourself for putting him back in pullups

because you needed some sleep. Remember his body is healing and

kids that don't have immune dysfunction go back and forth with potty

training as well.

Cecilia Vespa

[Guest guest]

Colleen.

Yes and it is a good sign. Deep cycle sleep is when the brain forms connections,

longterm memory and more.

One of the meds that it seems to be related to is the SSRI. When we stated Zolof

it went on for months and restarted with each increase. Eventually it did slack

off as we reached the proper dosage.

We recently changed to Celex and it restarted but slack off after a couple of

days, much better.

Bill

From: colleen.waguespack <colleendesigns@...>

Subject: bed wetting

Date: Friday, April 9, 2010, 9:28 AM

 

One of the problems we have had since starting the anti-viral protocol is

our son began wetting the bed at night. He never has an accident during the

day, but unless we wake him up at 11 PM and 6AM, he is consistently wetting the

bed. Has anyone had the same experience or have any suggestions?

Thank you!

Colleen