Metal Free

[Guest guest]

whats in metal free(components?) ?

Bernie

ps, I know someone who says they've had good experience with NDF,

which has colloid chlorella, cilantro, etc.

[Guest guest]

We use Metal Free on our son. We are up to 5 sprays a day. It is very

powerful and has to be increased slowly. I spray it into a spoon, take it up

into a 1cc syringe after removing the needle and dropper it under his tongue.

It can precipitate a strong detox if given in too high a dose which appears

as a worsening of symptoms. In this case, decrease the dose by one spray. The

manufacturer's Website has data on metal removal but I would like to see

anyone using it get a urine or stool collection to see what is actually

coming out so we can get outside validation what it is doing. We should have

that information on our son soon. One good thing is that it seems to be

gentler on the system than DMSA.

Ken Sokolski

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/01 2:29:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,

KKSOKOLSKI@... writes:

>

> We use Metal Free on our son. We are up to 5 sprays a day. It is very

> powerful and has to be increased slowly. I spray it into a spoon, take it

> up

> into a 1cc syringe after removing the needle and dropper it under his

> tongue.

> It can precipitate a strong detox if given in too high a dose which appears

>

> as a worsening of symptoms. In this case, decrease the dose by one spray.

> The

> manufacturer's Website has data on metal removal

Hi Ken and Everyone:

This is the first time I've heard of Metal Free. Would someone please post

the website so I can read about it.

Thank you.

Tina

[Guest guest]

>We use Metal Free on our son. We are up to 5 sprays a day. It is very

>powerful and has to be increased slowly. I spray it into a spoon, take it up

>into a 1cc syringe after removing the needle and dropper it under his

tongue.

>It can precipitate a strong detox if given in too high a dose which appears

>as a worsening of symptoms. In this case, decrease the dose by one spray.

The

>manufacturer's Website has data on metal removal but I would like to see

>anyone using it get a urine or stool collection to see what is actually

>coming out so we can get outside validation what it is doing. We should have

>that information on our son soon. One good thing is that it seems to be

>gentler on the system than DMSA.

>Ken Sokolski

Hello Ken,

Could you please say something about your basis for comparing to DMSA?

I am not aware of DMSA as " harsh " (or whtever the opposite of " gentle "

may be), so I'm concerned that you say this.

thanks,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Their website is metal-free.com

We also use MF on our son. The first stool test we did, which was done after

five days on the product, pulled lots of uranium, some arsenic, bismuth, and

beryllium. We will be doing another stool test this week, about one month

after the last one was done.

Jean

Re: [ ] Metal Free

In a message dated 10/28/01 2:29:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,

KKSOKOLSKI@... writes:

>

> We use Metal Free on our son. We are up to 5 sprays a day. It is very

> powerful and has to be increased slowly. I spray it into a spoon, take

it

> up

> into a 1cc syringe after removing the needle and dropper it under his

> tongue.

> It can precipitate a strong detox if given in too high a dose which

appears

>

> as a worsening of symptoms. In this case, decrease the dose by one

spray.

> The

> manufacturer's Website has data on metal removal

Hi Ken and Everyone:

This is the first time I've heard of Metal Free. Would someone please

post

the website so I can read about it.

Thank you.

Tina

[Guest guest]

> >We use Metal Free on our son. We are up to 5 sprays a day. It is

very

> >powerful and has to be increased slowly. I spray it into a spoon,

take it up

> >into a 1cc syringe after removing the needle and dropper it under

his

> tongue.

> >It can precipitate a strong detox if given in too high a dose which

appears

> >as a worsening of symptoms. In this case, decrease the dose by one

spray.

> The

> >manufacturer's Website has data on metal removal but I would like

to see

> >anyone using it get a urine or stool collection to see what is

actually

> >coming out so we can get outside validation what it is doing. We

should have

> >that information on our son soon. One good thing is that it seems

to be

> >gentler on the system than DMSA.

> >Ken Sokolski

>

> Hello Ken,

>

> Could you please say something about your basis for comparing to

DMSA?

> I am not aware of DMSA as " harsh " (or whtever the opposite of

" gentle "

> may be), so I'm concerned that you say this.

Most of these things compare to DMSA 500 mg every other day, which is

only slightly better for you than a baseball bat upside the head. So

of course anything other than a .45 caliber dose of vitamin lead comes

out looking great. The question is how many of them are better than

doing nothing? You can see why the placebo controlled trial came to

be - it covers for the doc's who really DON'T know what they are doing

but want to invent drugs anyway.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't mean to harsh out on you in the earlier message, Ken. I know

you are a reasonable guy. I was pointing out that I have seen info on

a variety of products (I think mostly from " BioRay " ) that compare them

to DMPS injections and DMSA every other day, and describe the same

patient progress on their stuff as for those who do nothing, then

proclaim the product effective because it does better than the harmful

protocols. This obviously rubbed me the wrong way - I hope that I

haven't drifted from a reasonable level of skepticism off into overt

prejudice here.

Whatever the case, I am glad you have something that is working for

your son.

Andy

> We use Metal Free on our son. We are up to 5 sprays a day. It is

very

> powerful and has to be increased slowly. I spray it into a spoon,

take it up

> into a 1cc syringe after removing the needle and dropper it under

his tongue.

> It can precipitate a strong detox if given in too high a dose which

appears

> as a worsening of symptoms. In this case, decrease the dose by one

spray. The

> manufacturer's Website has data on metal removal but I would like to

see

> anyone using it get a urine or stool collection to see what is

actually

> coming out so we can get outside validation what it is doing. We

should have

> that information on our son soon. One good thing is that it seems to

be

> gentler on the system than DM

[Guest guest]

Hi,

We have used metal free in the spray form recently. I read with interest

that Andy did not think this was a chealator. It does contain ALA plus a

host of other known natural chealation agents. I had e-mailed him privately

some time ago, and got no response when I asked him why he thought it was not

a good thing to use. I have heard some amazing results with this product,

but my only question was that it was given in the spray form under the

tongue, but only twice a day. That made me worry about the redistribution

issue. From what I have learned from our DAN! doctor they say that it

totally binds the mercury and other metals and takes it directly out of the

body, and that it shortens the chealation process dramatically. What I have

chosen to do is give it twice a day and give a low dose of ALA every four

hours also round the clock. I just use the spray for two of those doses.

Pulling out mercury can cause ugly regressions since it is being pulled out

into the system. It should get better as time goes on and you should see

improvements along with some increased stimming etc...

Hope this helps,

Jane

[Guest guest]

> Hi,

>

> We have used metal free in the spray form recently. I read with

interest

> that Andy did not think this was a chealator. It does contain ALA

plus a

> host of other known natural chealation agents.

How much ALA? Less than a few mg is not significant.

What other natural chelating agents?

>I had e-mailed him privately

> some time ago, and got no response when I asked him why he thought

it was not

> a good thing to use.

My apologies to you (and to everyone else relevant) for not always

having the time to respond to private messages.

>I have heard some amazing results with this product,

> but my only question was that it was given in the spray form under

the

> tongue, but only twice a day. That made me worry about the

redistribution

> issue. From what I have learned from our DAN! doctor they say that

it

> totally binds the mercury and other metals and takes it directly out

of the

> body, and that it shortens the chealation process dramatically.

What I have

> chosen to do is give it twice a day and give a low dose of ALA every

four

> hours also round the clock. I just use the spray for two of those

doses.

> Pulling out mercury can cause ugly regressions since it is being

pulled out

> into the system. It should get better as time goes on and you

should see

> improvements along with some increased stimming etc...

>

> Hope this helps

[Guest guest]

Dear Tina,

Their website is http://www.metal-free.com.

Ken

[Guest guest]

DMSA can cause some severe agitation, abdominal cramping in SOME children.

Most tolerate it fine. In those children who do not tolerate it well, the

metal-free might be an alternative. Children who are very sensitive might

start with metal-free and move to the DMSA later. It is also possible that

both could be done at the same time. I have not been able to confirm this.

Ken

[Guest guest]

Thank you

I appreciate the information. We will also do stool and urine tests to see

what is coming out.

Ken

[Guest guest]

Dr. Cutler,

Have you thorougly evaluated the Metal-Free to honestly tell everyone that is

is entirely useless? Have you tested it and done studies on it? If so please

present the data. If you are certain that it is no better than placebo and

worthless compared to DMSA please back this up. My doctor uses DMSA regularly

and knows how to use it very well. He recommended starting out with

Metal-Free on a very reactive child and will probably use DMSA as well. Some

children have been slowly chelated using natural chelators. I am not doubting

that DMSA is a good drug but maybe it is not the only way to go. If you are

personally familiar with Metal-Free and have data that it does not work,

please share this with everyone.

Ken Sokolski

[Guest guest]

O.K. Andy,

Forget my previous message but if you say the products state they help a

great deal and that is no better than just giving placebo, that confuses me.

I do clinical trials and it is true that placebo responses are often very

high. Placebo responses in trials with autistic children can be high too as

the parents want to see something happen. The only thing that isn't placebo

is what is coming out (heavy metals) in the stool and urine. That's why I am

asking for outside confirmation of this product. At least one parent has

provided some data. Remember that a number of autistic children treated with

DMSA have had urine and stool samples tested and NOTHING is coming out. Many

of these children are doing better. Why? Either placebo response or the DMSA

is doing something else. At the recent DAN conference in San Diego Dr.

Laidler brought this up and it was a topic of discussion. Some people believe

the DMSA works as an antioxidant for some children and helps in ways that

have nothing directly to do with heavy metals. This injects even more

controversy into the subject which gets more complicated over time. In my

son's case and my wife's case there is no doubt they are heavy metal toxic.

We did six months of DMSA and DMSA + ALA on my son. We started with Dr.

Amy's protocol and changed to your protocol. We definitely saw heavy metals

coming out in large quantities so the treatment met the test but my son would

become so agitated that he could not attend school. His doctor who uses both

the Metal-Free and DMSA thought he would back off and try the Metal-Free for

now but I am prepared to return to DMSA at a lower dosage or possibly to do

both. Metal-Free is given every day. The DMSA is 3 days out of 11 so it might

be possible to do both safely. Any way, that is a long-winded response. I am

not in any way against the DMSA. I have followed the posts and the meeting

information closely. We are just looking into this other stuff which a very

reputable doctor recommended to see if it might also be helpful.

All the best,

Ken Sokolski

[Guest guest]

Dear Jane,

We actually only give it once a day but it is interesting that you also give

the ALA. I have wondered if it could be given along with DMSA + ALA given

three days every two weeks. I am thinking that this might speed chelation

even more.

Ken Sokolski

[Guest guest]

>Dear Jane,

>We actually only give it once a day but it is interesting that you also give

>the ALA. I have wondered if it could be given along with DMSA + ALA given

>three days every two weeks. I am thinking that this might speed chelation

>even more.

>Ken Sokolski

Ken,

Based only on your last note, I would think that " speeding chelation " is

exactly what you do NOT want to do. Since your son is getting too

agitiated to go to school, I would think that you would want to

" slow chelation " not " speed it " . But perhaps there is something

I've missed here.

best,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Ken,

Yes I was wondering about this. Would it not be the mercury (that mobilised)

making him 'agitated' as opposed to the DMSA? Are you finding mercury being

excreted whilst giving Metal Free only?

Sorry if this has been addressed. I only seem to have your posts and none

of the ones you are responding to.

Celia

From: Moria Merriweather <moriam@...>

>

> Ken,

>

> Based only on your last note, I would think that " speeding chelation " is

> exactly what you do NOT want to do. Since your son is getting too

> agitiated to go to school, I would think that you would want to

> " slow chelation " not " speed it " . But perhaps there is something

> I've missed here.

>

> best,

> Moria

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

He got agitated on high dose DMSA (900 mg per day) as recommended by the DAN

protocol. On lower doses such as 50 mg every 4 hours he is o.k.

Ken

[Guest guest]

Dear Celia,

The agitation on either DMSA or Metal Free could be due to detox. I am

setting up to do some tests on the Metal Free to see what is coming out. At

least one other parent has measured large amounts of heavy metals coming out

on Metal Free. I may eventually combine Metal Free with DMSA treatments

however would like to heal my son's gut more first so he can absorb necessary

minerals like zinc. At the moment he is very low on this mineral and DMSA

might bring it dangerously low.

Ken

[Guest guest]

> Are you saying that there is a product called metal free that is not

> effective for detoxing mercury? I did write down the wrong name for

the

> product. It is called metal free.

Correct. I do not believe metal free is effective.

Andy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Guest guest]

It too has been my experience that Metal Free is something you get lots of

opinions on. I took Dr. Cave's opinion and the fact that she had chosen to

chelate her own body with it as a strong indication it was for us. Metal Free

has worked for us per lab test Dr. Cave and Dr. Layton have felt it is working.

I read Andy's board daily and value his opinion but he does seem a bit biased

about his own protocol. I sometimes wonder if it is because of book sales?

That may be unfair and I don't mean to knock him because I love anyone

passionate about helping our kids! I just like a open mind. I also spoke with

Dorfmann and she thinks highly of Metal Free. I think one problem

according to Dr. Cave is when I questioned why Dr. Holmes said it did nothing is

she said that she must have been testing urine. Metal Free doesn't pull through

urinary tract but comes out in feces. Metal Free does have a website. We use

metal Free twice a day 5 sprays each time. We also do ALA per Andy's protocol.

Re: towson DAN Dr

>

>

> Interesting to hear different views on Layton. We have been

seeing

> him since April. My 5 yr old son has bad allergies, tics, adhd,

and

> sensory issues. When we first saw Layton we didn't know about

.

> We raised it with him in our last visit. He didn't close the door

on

> it and said that Dr. G has a lot of good ideas, but he didn't

suggest

> we pursue the protocol either. I think this may be because

because he

> believes that allergies are at the core of my son's problems.

Yet, I

> fear something else may be going on. Everytime gets sick, he

has

> to take antibiotics or he doesn't get better. They also stop his

> tics. We explored PANDAS but his titers were always negative.

>

> Anyway, I didn't realize that Layton might be willing to run

tests

> along the Goldberg protocol. Did he do them for you? What did

you

> think of Cave? My son has high metal levels. Layton wanted to

> chelate with Metal Free but another expert told me DMSA is the

only

> way to go. Layton feels my son's history is " very complex even

for

> someone like himself, " but since my son's problems are not PDD or

> full blown autism related, I think he wants to be conservative.

>

> Kim in Kensington, MD

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[Guest guest]

What were your negative results? I would like to know all the results of people

using it, good and bad too.

Diane

Re: [ ] Metal free

Has

anyone tried it with negative or neutral results?

Yes.

[Guest guest]

>

> Has

> anyone tried it with negative or neutral results?

>

>

> Yes.

>

If you are willing to share, could you please let us know your

feelings/results with this product...Good, Bad and Ugly please...

[Guest guest]

After six months of use we discovered that METAL-FREE doesn't chelate mercury.

[ ] Re: Metal free

>

> Has

> anyone tried it with negative or neutral results?

>

>

> Yes.

>

If you are willing to share, could you please let us know your

feelings/results with this product...Good, Bad and Ugly please...

=======================================================