Re: Re: People poisoning themselves

[Guest guest]

Yep, a lot of us (I think I'd include myself in that) can appear to do fine

eating a fairly crappy diet. I always ate on the healthy side of the SAD thanks

to my parents (but nowhere near as good a diet as mine is now) and had almost no

health issues.

But while some people are just better at dealing with grains and dairy and

highly processed foods through heredity, we should also not forget that some

people had parents and grandparents who ate much more traditionally (in the WAPF

sense) than others. Some of us have great grandparents who ate loads of white

flour and sugar and passed poor eating habits and ways of life along to their

offspring. Due to the nutritional debt which those people have inherited,

they're going to be much worse off than someone whose parents ate well, even if

they eat like crap.

Recall the experiment that Price mentioned, done in the 1930s, which found that

pigs fed a diet lacking in Vitamin A had blind offspring (lacking eyes!), but if

the blind offspring were fed a proper diet, they would go on to give birth to

healthy pigs with normal eyes. This demonstrates that expression of genes

depends to a huge degree on the condition of the parents, and the genes

themselves are just the template.

So the good news is, even if some of us are not in ideal shape and maybe never

will be, if we continue to eat a near-ideal diet, health will improve over the

generations.

Tom

>

> Hi , i share your frustration, as i'm sure a lot if not most of

> the people here do.

>

> like you said, a lot of us came to eat healthy because of health

> problems we had, and i fall into that category. but, i also didn't

> really 'move my butt' into healthy eating until my problems got

> worse. and it seems like most people fall into 3 categories: 1.

> people like us, 2. people who eat crap but seem to suffer little to

> no ill effect, and 3. people who eat crap, are made ill, but have

> faith in the medical establishment. i personally think they are

> brainwashed to think that if they go on medication, all will be well

> but sometimes it just makes things worse.

>

> and so, to answer your question, i think people basically have not

> much motivations to change, if they are brought up eating crap, like

> i was, until they have problems...and they realize the medical

> establishment will NOT help them but might make things worse.

>

> i have wondered like you...how long will it take? and will it even

> happen at all? i think we are making progress but i also think it

> won't happen til a lot of the older generation dies off. my mother

> is so entrenched in modern med., problems and all, and won't listen

> to a word i say. she thinks i'm a nut.

>

> a woman at the church we used to go to, told me i was obsessed with

> nutrition; and that was because the children were fed juice and

> donuts after church during sunday school. every sunday!! our son

> was not allowed to eat that way...so how could i not fight it? i

> lost. no one else shared my belief!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> a wapf friend and i talk about this often; we've wondered if junk

> food might be the next step in human 'evolution'...those it doesn't

> kill will be made stronger by it. 'survival of the fittest'. only

> those that are not made unhealthy by it will reproduce and survive.

> then i realized that a lot of the health problems are not made

> manifest until people are past their reproductive years, so there

> goes that theory. by the time people are dying of cancer, heart

> disease, etc., they've already had their children.

>

> i was reading my new issue of Nourishing Traditions and there's a

> book i want to get: Modern Medicine: the new world religion.

>

> sounds interesting, doesn't it? here's the link on amazon:

>

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-

> /1932181148/qid=1118501443/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4162204-9450514?

> v=glance & s=books

>

> but it's not just modern medicine and the drug companies, it's the

> food companies and modern ag as well...and it all revolves around

> money and power.

>

> thank God that the WAPF is using their resources to fight all

> this...and they need all our support.

>

> laura in nj

>

[Guest guest]

This conversation could so easily go off in many different directions. Many of

you have touched on some of the things that have been in my mind for a while

too. I came to this list shortly after buying the Jeavons book " how to

grow more vegetables.. " . I hope to grow more of my own food, firstly to save

money, but also because I've always been interested in self sufficiency. If you

grow your own food I think you can't help but eat healthier. Jeavons puts some

emphasis on grains (due to the fact that he thinks they are necessary). Not

being into grains I wasn't sure what to do with the raw product. Somehow I came

to this list. Still not sure if I want to grow any grains. With limited space

I think I'd be better off concentrating on fruits and vegetables, especially the

darker colored ones with plenty of antioxidants. I think the Jeavons philosophy

fits in well with this because he advocates growing your own compost, improving

the soil without bringing in any other fertilizers etc because a healthy soil is

the basis of all else. And that bears some parallel to a healthy body and even

to the locavore conversation. Grow and eat local produce. I wish I could live

in a small hamlet. Relying on the supermarket for food and other things has got

to be a bad idea. They have too much power and can easily bankrupt the hundreds

of farmers who provide goods to them. With the push to increase profits the

bigger supermarkets are sourcing goods from overseas, virtually bankrupting

local communities on a whim. It has started to happen.

I used to sit on the bus twenty years ago thinking about all the garbage that

each person put out for collection each and every week to go to landfill. (how

weird am I?). I have a romantic notion of how native communities live or lived.

(I think that might be the next research tangent that I might take off on). I

do see some benefits to the techno world but in my heart believe that it's not

the way it should be. Ah, I've started to go off now...better reign it back

in.

I've just had a chuckle at PanamaBob's post. What do I need to do to earn 250k

exactlly? Grow opium poppies? Trust you to come up with the answer. LIVE IT

AND THEY WILL COME.

Re: People poisoning themselves

> I imagine that some, or many, of you have come to the WAPF or

similar type of lifestyle (I say lifestyle because I hate calling it

a diet) due to a serious illness eg diabetes, celiac, etc. For me,

it wasn't as serious, thankfully and now I am on a path to better

health for myself and hopefully for my family (eventually).

>

> How many of you have wondered " What the HELL is it going to take

for the rest of the world to WAKE UP and realise that they are

seriously poisoning themselves with too many processed foods - sugar

and grains and vegetable oils " . On my TV tonight I saw a commercial

advising people with a history of Macular Degeneration in their

family to have regular checks of their eyes with their optometrist.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It was as if this disease was

only a problem for people who had a family member with it already.

In my non-internet life, I do not know of one single person who is

avoiding processed foods. Not one. I feel like I am on the edge of a

wave about to crash. But it seems that the wave is getting bigger

and bigger and I am wondering just how big, or bad, it has to get

before it crashes and people really start to turn things around with

better food. Does it have to crash? Do you feel that your wave is

only a swell that will just get bigger and will just take over the

world or are you like me and fear for the worst?

>

> I dunno. I'm constantly dumbfounded at supposedly intelligent

people - doctors that still back the current food pyramid. Sure, I

have heard a few telling us to cut down, but I haven't heard anyone

go hard enough. Well only in isolation it seems. It's all very sad

I think.

>

> How long do you think it will be before whole, unprocessed,

fermented, organic foods are the norm? I reckon 30 years.

>

> am I off base? My apologies if you think I am ranting....just need

like minded people to bounce sensible thoughts back at me and there

aren't any that I can touch <sigh>.

>

>

>

Hi , i share your frustration, as i'm sure a lot if not most of

the people here do.

like you said, a lot of us came to eat healthy because of health

problems we had, and i fall into that category. but, i also didn't

really 'move my butt' into healthy eating until my problems got

worse. and it seems like most people fall into 3 categories: 1.

people like us, 2. people who eat crap but seem to suffer little to

no ill effect, and 3. people who eat crap, are made ill, but have

faith in the medical establishment. i personally think they are

brainwashed to think that if they go on medication, all will be well

but sometimes it just makes things worse.

and so, to answer your question, i think people basically have not

much motivations to change, if they are brought up eating crap, like

i was, until they have problems...and they realize the medical

establishment will NOT help them but might make things worse.

i have wondered like you...how long will it take? and will it even

happen at all? i think we are making progress but i also think it

won't happen til a lot of the older generation dies off. my mother

is so entrenched in modern med., problems and all, and won't listen

to a word i say. she thinks i'm a nut.

a woman at the church we used to go to, told me i was obsessed with

nutrition; and that was because the children were fed juice and

donuts after church during sunday school. every sunday!! our son

was not allowed to eat that way...so how could i not fight it? i

lost. no one else shared my belief!!!!!!!!!!!!

a wapf friend and i talk about this often; we've wondered if junk

food might be the next step in human 'evolution'...those it doesn't

kill will be made stronger by it. 'survival of the fittest'. only

those that are not made unhealthy by it will reproduce and survive.

then i realized that a lot of the health problems are not made

manifest until people are past their reproductive years, so there

goes that theory. by the time people are dying of cancer, heart

disease, etc., they've already had their children.

i was reading my new issue of Nourishing Traditions and there's a

book i want to get: Modern Medicine: the new world religion.

sounds interesting, doesn't it? here's the link on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-

/1932181148/qid=1118501443/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-4162204-9450514?

v=glance & s=books

but it's not just modern medicine and the drug companies, it's the

food companies and modern ag as well...and it all revolves around

money and power.

thank God that the WAPF is using their resources to fight all

this...and they need all our support.

laura in nj

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[Guest guest]

On Sunday, June 12, 2005, at 09:50 PM, wrote:

> I think the Jeavons philosophy fits in well with this because he

> advocates growing your own compost, improving the soil without

> bringing in any oth!

> er fertilizers etc because a healthy soil is the basis of all else.

What about fish emulsion is that ok as fertilizer?

Sandty

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

There are hundreds of things one can do to earn what many consider to be large

amounts of money full time or even part time

:-)

I m sure we ALL know several LEGAL ways if we just think or look around for a

minute...

The issue is that it usually means changing what ever we are doing already, and

that's really hard.

In fact, many of us would pooh-pooh many of the simpler ways of making money

just because of ingrained " learning " from others around us that it isn't

possible (isn't " moral " ) to earn lots of money.

If it was easy / possible, wouldn't everyone be doing it ? :-) (If eating

healthier was easy, wouldn't everyone be doing it ?)

Actually the key to making copious amounts of money is usually VERY moral...it

really amounts to finding ways to benefit others. The more people we benefit

(volume) the more money we make, or the greater the per person benefit

(individual value) the more money we make.

If I could show you how to make a million dollars, would you begrudge me 25% of

it? If I could show a million people how to save $100, would they not be

willing to pay me 25c each?

You can pick any model of effort / compensation you wish....

Of course you have to use your noggin, and do something, usually outside the

" box " for yourself though... and believe it or not, one can be working 16 hours

a day and still be " lazy " because they don't want to take the effort to change

the habits or use their heads... :-(

Many will say they don't have the time to find better ways of making more money

/ serving their fellow humans better.... So be it. Same people may also be

eating poorly and should make the time to learn / do things differently.

The internet is an overwhelmingly fantastic resource that most have no idea

what it can do.... and almost everyone has access to it cheaply.

Subscribing to this list is but a needle-prick of the possible...and if you have

mastered this simple procedure, you probably have the ability to do almost

anything else that you would need to succeed.

I myself for now do home mortgages...getting people into homes for no money out

of their pocket. Fees for what I do is usually around 3% of the loan amount.

It takes between two and five hours to collect data for a loan package for

underwriting. Trust me, there is no shortage of folks that want to buy a home...

immigrants new to this country are abundant. Apartment dwellers are abundant .

I personally usually only do one family a month or so, and I use the rest of my

time working on a vision- project that is my choice to do (Southern

Latitudes.org) ... But colleagues in my line of work do 10-loans a month

making a substantial income by many standards. Sadly many of these loan

originators have had 10 hours or so training and are limited to traditional /

conventional procedures... but that's good enough to serve a goodly number of

the market, so they can do well enough with that... (point being that its not a

boatload of schooling needed to be employed in the line of work..., mostly

finding people and getting information from them).

Figure $125k as average home loan amount, $3,50 compensation per, about $37,500

a month, easily over the $250,000 benchmark.

What homebuyer-wanna-be, with no cash-downpayment available would balk at

getting a home for no money out of pocket, especially if their new monthly

payment is around the same as what they were paying before in rent? No brainer

huh? I daresay that there are hundreds of other employment opportunities similar

that are based on sales that one can do...(of course the average person shy's

away from sales for some reason, probably why sales opportunities have to pay so

much to get people, , , go figure).

The USA has around 3% of the worlds population....discounting other " 1st " world

populations, you easily have several hundreds of million people who are doing

worse than even the most suffering American. People for whom $100 is a

considerable amount of cash.

Today, with relatively simple world wide UPS shipping available and the

internet for communication, one can connect with a very large and willing

population base that can be applied to produce any number of goods or services.

Hey globalization at the grass roots level :-)

I can not start to name ALL the possibilities...everyone has their own interests

/ talents / skills that they have that can probably be of value to SOMEone in

this world, and get compensation for it. One does have to do the research and

formulate their own plan.

It does not have to be complicated...

we talk about NN food... and how so many people would benefit from this

resource. Yet how plentiful and accessible IS the foods we search for? Could

one not become a resource for the unaware and become the bridge (with a toll) to

better health?

There are many public lands available even in city areas for growing healthy

foods...some have a small fee that's more than affordable. Growing high profit

items like herbs and " spring mix " greens for sale to restaurants or small

grocery stores or even over the internet to individuals can be very lucrative.

There IS a growing demand for NN type foods. It's been very well documented as

well by the succesmany entrepreneurs...so its not pie in the sky. :-)

It's just a matter of one thinking of a business plan, i.e. doing the numbers to

see what they have to do to make the monies they wish.... one $250,000 sale, or

250,000 one dollar sales...

Lets say that one isn't as good as one could be in " seeing " opportunities and

" only " makes $50k a year instead of $250k...is it not worth doing? That's up to

you.

30 years ago, there was only a handful of real estate investment

speakers... , Carlton Sheets...today there are easily several hundred

making good money teaching others how...

In NN there were are a handful of speakers...is there not room / demand for

more grass roots speakers that can take folks by the hand and help them set up a

healthier lifestyle...teaching how to shop, how to prepare foods, and do it in a

way that's not more trouble overall than " traditional " methods?

Heck I see people making a good living decorating people homes, being personal

shoppers for clothes and gifts, organizing closets, and coaching in hobbies,

amateur sports ....could there not be an opening for nutrition coaching or even

shoppers?

Think of Merry Maids franchises,,,they charge to come and clean your home...

Many older people hire them for a couple of hours a week to keep things

tidy...easily $25-$50 an hour. What would a graying population pay for someone

to come twice a week to prepare meals and keep their health tidy?

There are many chefs that have a route of clients that they deliver preprepared

meals to once a day or twice a week, entree's being frozen or sealed in " boiling

bags " . They charge restaurant pricing plus a service /delivery fee. Some Chefs

have clients come to the 'back door " for pickup of the preprepared meals, saving

delivery charges.

I'm sure you have seen TV commercials from many restaurants like Chili's or

Applebee's or Olive Garden promoting meal pick-ups, and pizza places have had

delivery for a mainstay for many years and have done quite well with it.

Hope that has been helpful.

-----

I've just had a chuckle at PanamaBob's post. What do I need to do to earn

250k exactlly? Grow opium poppies? Trust you to come up with the answer. LIVE

IT AND THEY WILL COME.