Re: People poisoning themselves/ loooong

[Guest guest]

please delete this if you don't have time to kill. i would have done it too had

it not taken me so long to write this drivel...and realizing that it's a

subversive way to ask for help, really. help to see hope again from those of

you who do. i never do ask for help.

hello claire,

i enjoyed reading your post.

mainly because it was interesting how our observations of americans differ. i

find myself thinking that i'm sure a lot more cynical than you are.

what you observe as " trusting, " i see as pure and simple " lazy. "

what this observation of mine is formed by is the apparent unsatiable and

voracious demand for time-savers in our society and unwillingness to exert any

effort that doesn't offer an instant return of sorts.

tv-dinners, fast food, drive-through foods, drive-through pharmacies,

drive-through banking, flash-networking, speed-dating, drive-through car washes,

walk-in clinics, quick answers, instant gratification, instant oatmeal,

microwaves, email, prepackaged DEAD food in a bag for our pets requiring only a

10 second scoop-and-pour attention, quick solutions, band-aid treatments,

feel-good now stuff, menstrual symptoms instant eliminators (who cares that it

hurts because we're supposed to REST, we need to work. NOW), cold eliminators

(same reason), tummy tucks instead of sit ups, instant tans (probably more a

time saver than uv avoidance), INSTANT real-time news (making rip-and-read

reporting the norm, not enabling journalists to do their due diligence research

if they want to keep their job !!!!) ...

we want things that keep us going NOW, we don't have time to think of later or

the future. if it ain't broke, don't fix it now attitude. we don't want to

hear the whispers from our bodies. we want to shut them up with pain killers

and steroids and hormones and feel good herbs. we don't have time to listen to

them. it would require taking responsibility. it would require making extra

effort. it would require extra work on our part (without making money on it

NOW), time for learning new ways, slowing down, breathing, thinking, listening,

learning, questioning, searching...

no, i'm so disgusted and frankly just plain scared that there is no way my

disillusioned mind could explain the reason for the mainstream ignorance being

that we are " trusting. "

i'm envious that you see it that way. i wish i were that nice and positive

still and that non-disgusted, non-disillusioned, non-frustrated, non-depressed

about the sorry state of our situation. scared for my children, scared of

doctors, scared because i have no one in my court to go to bat for me " my way "

if i get sick, no one interested or willing or educated enough to be able to

swing what needs to be a humongous monster bat to counteract all the

brainwashing and scepticism and resistance from the western/allopathic health

attitudes. scared for the 70 year old little helpless lonely man trusting the

doctor to save his wife by doing chemo, scared for all the fighters of our cause

catching my " disillusionement bug. "

it really is different in other countries. it's not just lip service. still,

to some degree. but unfortunately, with money & power being progressively more

important in terms of survival in every corner of this planet - the speed with

which money can be acquired, dictates our hunger for time savers and

corner-cutters everywhere. and sadly, the places that used to have a healthier

lifestyle are all modelling the us-way at increasing rates.

maybe there is a wave that is rising now. we have the internet. we can

connect, find each other, group together. there is strength in numbers, no

doubt about it. exponentially grow our knowledge through organic sharing of it,

through contributing to it, pooling it and drawing from it. there are a lot

more books about it and a lot more demand for it due to inadequacies in healing

through allopathics. but still, it's not really a wave, in the big scheme of

things.

it's barely a ripple. so vulnerable to being disrupted by the massive forces it

is surrounded by.

i'm a downer with this post, and sorry. i don't know why i'm even posting this,

except for selfish reasons, to diffuse my depressed feelings about the whole

thing. or maybe hope that still positive people like claire will persuade me

that there is great hope out there...

i'm angry at times. at myself. for having been curious. for having

questioned the status quo. for having " wasted " my time learning, informing

myself. because i'm not happier now than i was when i didn't KNOW.

i was happier then,

i fit in with people around me better then.

life was less complicated then.

i was comforted by knowing that such things as " doctors " existed.

doctors who were experts in " me " released me from having to become one myself

i had more time for mindless activities instead of this constant reading and

learning and preparing food.

i had more friends then.

i didn't feel judged and separated then

i belonged, i wasn't " weird "

i didn't have to constantly defend and explain my choices

i was more hopeful.

the world and it's future had rosy hues that gave me peace

i wasn't scared.

i wasn't on constant, heavy defense & demand & negotiation mode with medics

i wasn't in despair about how to help loved ones who're ill and unwilling to try

new ways

i thought any solution had an expert out there for hire to fix it

i'm not happy anymore. but that's maybe the price of knowledge. the curse of

knowledge, of awareness, of introspection. one can't ever un-know what one once

knows. it's no wonder poets and songwriters have the highest suicide rate of

any profession/occupation consistently through history of humanity. once we

start thinking deeply, connecting to the essence of things instead of the buzz

around us, we see all the wrongs around us and their magnitude and the

helplessness is overwhelming.

i'm shutting up and hoping my drivel bores you enough to just delete it.

angel on a bad day

Message: 23

Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 07:55:58 -0700

From: " West " <clairewest@...>

Subject: Re: People poisoning themselves

" What the HELL is it going to take for the rest of the world to WAKE UP and

realise that they are seriously poisoning themselves with too many processed

foods - sugar and grains and vegetable oils " .

I don't know how it is in other countries, but Americans seem to be a

basically trusting people, and given the barage of processed-foods

advertising they are subject to, it's not likely they will soon make the

connection between what they eat and the obesity and illness that is slowly

killing them. Nor will they quickly see through the lies of the

medical/pharamceutical industries. Last night I heard of a man whose wife

was misdiagnosed with cancer and then killed (yes, a jury granted that she

was killed) with the chemotherapy " treatment. "

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

Angel,

I'm sorry you're having such a bad day, but while I certainly hope you're

soon feeling a whole lot better, I won't try to talk you out of any of your

feelings. Mostly because I know when I'm really down (often these days when

I'm detoxing), I just need time to get through it. But also because I can't

really argue the " results " that you're reporting. I say " results " because I

think you're describing reality, only seeing it in a different light than I

do. For instance, when I look at Americans wanting the quick and easy in

everything, my take is that they are so incredibly exhausted from bad food,

drugs (over the counter and other) and pollutants, from a too long working

day and commute, from too much bad news, misinformation, and violent

" entertainment " , from worries about their future, and perhaps their

children's future, they don't have the energy to do anything except rely on

the quick and easy way in everything.

Blessings on you for wanting to make things better for other folks, but

really you just need to start with yourself. Do what is good for you, what

makes you happy and well, and others will follow. Or if they don't, or they

follow later, when you don't get to see it, you'll still be happy and well.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

My two cents: yes, we are a culture driven by convenience, but we are also

extremely busy. Busiest nation in the world with the longest working hours.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed. I am not justifying that

busy-ness. It's just a trait America has come to cherish.

And yes, knowledge of how things really work can make you suicidal. (Read

The Fluoride Deception for a big picture on how things work in this country.

Hollywood couldn't dream up something so crazy.) But our individual thoughts

shape the reality of this planet and the more peace you can find within

yourself the more you're going to help out the bigger picture. It's asking a

lot but it's doable.

Elaine

> please delete this if you don't have time to kill. i would have done it too

> had it not taken me so long to write this drivel...

[Guest guest]

> what you observe as " trusting, " i see as pure and simple " lazy. "

and what you observe as 'lazy' i see as pure and simple 'lack of

energy'.

it is my firm belief that the unhealthy foods consumed here in the

u.s. in such huge quantities are not life giving but life

destroying...not energy producing but energy sapping.

and i think this is a huge problem.

chronic fatigue is practically at epidemic proportions.

i have never been an energetic person and have been looking for

energy for decades and have tried everything (except liver...i was

just reading about it in the new edition of Nourishing Traditions).

i would consider myself to be lazy, and getting lazier with age (i'm

now 50). or you could just say i'm tired and getting even more tired.

i would give or do almost anything (except maybe eating liver?) to

get some get up and go in my life...to get done what needs to be

done. some days i have it but most days i drag myself thru each day.

i have found exercise to be very helpful. but not in this awful

heat!!!

i just wish i had been raised to eat healthy (e.g. wapf foods) and be

active. then i might not have such a wt. problem and such lack of

energy issues.

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<<<< i was happier then,

i fit in with people around me better then.

life was less complicated then.

i was comforted by knowing that such things as " doctors " existed.

doctors who were experts in " me " released me from having to become one

myself

i had more time for mindless activities instead of this constant reading and

learning and preparing food.

i had more friends then.

i didn't feel judged and separated then

i belonged, i wasn't " weird "

i didn't have to constantly defend and explain my choices

i was more hopeful.

the world and it's future had rosy hues that gave me peace

i wasn't scared.

i wasn't on constant, heavy defense & demand & negotiation mode with medics

i wasn't in despair about how to help loved ones who're ill and unwilling to

try new ways

i thought any solution had an expert out there for hire to fix it

- angel on a bad day >>>>>>>>>

Thanks for writing all this down. It's helpful. Really. And your whole post

was extremely well-stated. I appreciate it. Can relate.

Just know that you have a friend in california...

~Robin

[Guest guest]

>And yes, knowledge of how things really work can make you suicidal.

You know, it IS depressing to see how things

really work, but the thing is, I was horribly (and

at times literally suicidally) depressed for 15 years

or so. I was also very busy and tired all the

time, and did everything " the easy way " . Typical

American!

When I lost the gluten, it was like being on

Prozac. Some awful things have happened:

deaths and surgeries, including seeing how

awful things can be in this society. And how

things weren't really much better in the past.

But for the life of me I *can't* get that

depressed any more. Cynical yes ... getting

into sarcastic conversations yes ... depressed,

no. When I do find myself getting seriously

depressed, it's always after some food

reaction, about 20 hours after eating whatever

it was.

Sooooo ... even though I deny it like mad

if anyone brings it up at while I'm going

through it!!! .... when I get so depressed I chalk

it up to chemicals at this point. There are people

who have life a LOT worse than we do, and they

aren't nearly as sad or as lacking in energy

as Americans tend to be.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>i have never been an energetic person and have been looking for

energy for decades and have tried everything (except liver...I was

just reading about it in the new edition of Nourishing Traditions).

I was never an energetic person either. Addicted to sweets at a very young age

and shunning most food (being practically anorexic) until my teenage years. In

my 30's I had an attack of thyroiditis when my thyroid apparently destroyed

itself. For a while I was hyperthyroid and my whole system revved up - what a

wonderful feeling! Only then could I appreciate how my friends felt and how

they could cycle and swim and x-country ski without feeling totally exhausted.

As the disease progressed, I turned hypothyroid, but with meds I am now " normal "

and doing a lot better than before.

All this to say that perhaps you should get your thyroid checked????

and the K9's

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

very nice of you to write.

i'm sorry to hear all what you went thru, but i'm glad you are more

or less straightened out.

i was pretty much convinced i had a thyroid problem...i went to see

dr. rind in wash. d.c. as he spoke at the last wapf conference.

it turns out i DO have somewhat of a low thyroid...but he had me

taking handfuls of supplements (including non-prescription thyroid).

Not only was it really not doing anything for me, but it was costing

me a fortune to go down there to see him plus all the tests and

supplements, plus i want to learn how to use food as my medicine, not

supplements. so i gave up on him. i gave it 3-4 mo.

so now i don't know what to do actually. was thinking about going to

see dr. ron schmid in CT...once we catch up financially.

winter and summer i tend to have NO energy... but it picks up in the

spring and fall.

was diagnosed with bipolar 30 years ago. i can still be a little

manic in the spring and/or fall and i'm usually depressed in summer

and winter. summer cuz it's too damn hot (HATE the heat; another

symptom of low thyroid, heat intolerance) and as much as i LOVE

winter i tend to sleep a LOT in winter (like a hibernating bear) and

so i'm just tired all winter. i think i read that bipolar is a

thyroid thing actually...

anyway, i tried coc. oil but got sick of it and didn't stick with

it. maybe i should just give it another go, stick with it for at

least a month and see if it does anything.

also, after reading heidi all this time am considering trying going

off wheat or gluten in general and see if i feel better.

thanks for writing, .

laura in nj

> I was never an energetic person either. Addicted to sweets at a

very young age and shunning most food (being practically anorexic)

until my teenage years. In my 30's I had an attack of thyroiditis

when my thyroid apparently destroyed itself. For a while I was

hyperthyroid and my whole system revved up - what a wonderful

feeling! Only then could I appreciate how my friends felt and how

they could cycle and swim and x-country ski without feeling totally

exhausted. As the disease progressed, I turned hypothyroid, but

with meds I am now " normal " and doing a lot better than before.

>

> All this to say that perhaps you should get your thyroid checked????

>

> and the K9's

[Guest guest]

,

<anyway, i tried coc. oil but got sick of it and didn't stick with it.

maybe i should just give it another go, stick with it for at least a month

and see if it does anything. also, after reading heidi all this time am

considering trying going off wheat or gluten in general and see if i feel

better.>

For many years I experimented with magic bullets to cure me of my ills (most

of them very costly). None of them worked really, although some were truly

good foods. I don't think there is much our bodies can do to heal us,

regardless of the good stuff we give them, if they are overwhelmed with

damage control on the bad stuff.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

So ...

what exactly are you trying to say? i'm not exactly sure what you mean.

laura

> For many years I experimented with magic bullets to cure me of my

ills (most

> of them very costly). None of them worked really, although some were

truly

> good foods. I don't think there is much our bodies can do to heal

us,

> regardless of the good stuff we give them, if they are overwhelmed

with

> damage control on the bad stuff.

>

>

> http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

,

I was responding to your comments about coco oil and avoiding gluten. My

point is that if your body (esp. your liver) is exhausted trying to cope

with gluten (supposing that is really a problem for you), then coconut oil,

as wonderful as it is (and I do use it) is not really going to make much

difference in your health and well-being.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> I was responding to your comments about coco oil and avoiding

gluten. My

> point is that if your body (esp. your liver) is exhausted trying to

cope

> with gluten (supposing that is really a problem for you), then

coconut oil,

> as wonderful as it is (and I do use it) is not really going to make

much

> difference in your health and well-being.

>

>

> http://www.taichi4seniors.com

so what you are saying, claire, is that i can try adding coc. oil,

but it might be a better idea to try eliminating gluten first?

i think i REALLY need some help and encouragement in this dept. Am

sick and tired of being sick and tired...haven't been willing to give

up gluten thus far but maybe i should just commit myself to just

TRYING it.

thanks claire.

laura

[Guest guest]

> i think i REALLY need some help and encouragement in this dept. Am

> sick and tired of being sick and tired...haven't been willing to give

> up gluten thus far but maybe i should just commit myself to just

> TRYING it.

Paging PanamaBob! I think this may be an area where an NT health

coach could make some $$, of course assuming that there are clients out

there with $$... I know if I had $$ I'd love a health coach, though

truthfully you guys have been that for me, and I thank you.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, I think avoidance of gluten would definitely be the priority for you.

However, if it's been such a struggle to even think about giving up wheat

etc., it's very likely there's a real addiction going on and it will be hard

for you to do this. It might help to get a test first, to convince yourself

the sacrifice will be worth it. (Though my personal belief is that giving

up grains would have a big payoff even if you have no gluten problems.) It

might also help your commitment to get hold of a book that goes into depth

about what gluten intolerance means in terms of physical and mental

problems. Finally, you might set yourself a deadline -- say, 21 days, which

is often the amount of time needed for an addictive substance to come under

control in the biochemical sense of " cravings. " (The psychological cravings

may take longer to disappear.) If you think from the start in terms of

" forever " , you might lose courage.

Good luck!

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> Yes, I think avoidance of gluten would definitely be the priority

for you.

> However, if it's been such a struggle to even think about giving up

wheat

> etc., it's very likely there's a real addiction going on and it

will be hard

> for you to do this. It might help to get a test first, to convince

yourself

> the sacrifice will be worth it. (Though my personal belief is that

giving

> up grains would have a big payoff even if you have no gluten

problems.) It

> might also help your commitment to get hold of a book that goes

into depth

> about what gluten intolerance means in terms of physical and mental

> problems. Finally, you might set yourself a deadline -- say, 21

days, which

> is often the amount of time needed for an addictive substance to

come under

> control in the biochemical sense of " cravings. " (The psychological

cravings

> may take longer to disappear.) If you think from the start in

terms of

> " forever " , you might lose courage.

>

> Good luck!

>

>

Hi ,

well, i have given up things in the past i thought i never

could...but it took me years to get off sugar as i was so very, very

addicted. but now that i'm off sugar...i'm very happy without it,

except on rare occasions i get a craving.

one reason i've been hanging onto breads and things is because it was

so hard getting off sugar...and i feel like i've already given up so

much (sugar is a real BIGGIE) i really don't want to give up anything

else.

but if it will help my energy levels and depression...well...maybe

it'll be worth going thru that, and having a life. i've always

wanted to have a life...and at 50, i'm been so tired and depressed

most of my life, i've never really had a life, ya know? that might

be a slight exaggeration but the last 10 years or so haven't been so

great really. ups and downs, really, but...

i think i can do this, but i think i need some guidelines, either

advice here or a book or something. (i think i do better with

advice).

i mean, should i go whole hog? or should i just start out

eliminating just wheat? then spelt? what about corn and rice and

oats?

i never wanted to get all that gluten free stuff...should i just cave

and try them?

i got some rice pasta recently but couldn't stop eating it.

anyway, any advice anyone can offer...

thanks so very much.

laura in nj

p.s. i really don't want to spend any more money on tests.

[Guest guest]

,

I'll have to leave it to others on the list to suggest a book. The

encouragement I felt in moving forward grain-free came mostly from research

about grains on the net, not from a book. And I don't think I can really

give advice about how to move forward, as I probably did it the hard way --

cold turkey withdrawal, throwing away every grain or grain-related product

in my cupboards. But I was facing cancer, so that was an enormous

motivator. I also had a positive goal to move toward in the guise of a

paleo diet that made sense to me.

I hope others will be able to make some suggestions here.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

>one reason i've been hanging onto breads and things is because it was

>so hard getting off sugar...and i feel like i've already given up so

>much (sugar is a real BIGGIE) i really don't want to give up anything

>else.

>

Hi ,

I just wanted to comment that if you are eating grains, which are very

concentrated sources of carbohydrates, then you are still eating sugar,

indirectly anyway. Starches start to get broken down in the mouth to

sugar. Of course, fruit has sugar too, especially modern fruit, but it

is not nearly so dense. I think it's wise to moderate these foods,

especially as we age. I feel so much better eating this way,

personally. I eat corn and rice very rarely, and that is it. No GF

breads and other stuff.

And if you feel you are giving up too much, then bring in something new

to your life, like exercise. It may to tough to begin, but once you get

into the habit for a few weeks, health and mood improve vastly.

Deanna

" Exhaustion is the shortest way to equality and fraternity. " ~

Friedrich Nietzsche

[Guest guest]

>i never wanted to get all that gluten free stuff...should i just cave

>and try them?

>

>i got some rice pasta recently but couldn't stop eating it.

The way I finally gave up dairy was to do a " one week test "

with no dairy. I.e. DON'T say " I'm giving this up for life " ...

just " do an experiment " .

When stopping eating gluten, I think it helps a lot

to let yourself pig out on say, rice pasta. Your body

does tend to learn that the gluten just isn't there,

then you stop craving the pasta. But meanwhile

you don't have to fight the psychological trauma

of " Oh no, I can't have pasta!!!!! " ... which is hard,

esp. if you are already kinda depressed. Better to

be depressed and eat some GFCF brownies.

Anyway, I don't crave any of that stuff anymore,

nor does the rest of the family (people have

started eating the pasta sauce without the

pasta lately!), tho we do have it sometimes. It's

sort of a leap of faith ...

You could also look at it like this: to do a good

experiment, you should just do one variable

at a time. So if you are testing if GLUTEN is the

issue, go ahead and have carbs that are gluten

free. The Tinkyada brown rice pasta is pretty

NT friendly (the brown rice is enzymatically

treated, kinda like soaking/fermenting it).

Buckwheat pudding, as was recently posted,

is NT friendly too. You can make NT friendly

cookies too, but if you are off sugar

you shouldn't miss those anyway.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> And if you feel you are giving up too much, then bring in something

new

> to your life, like exercise. It may to tough to begin, but once

you get

> into the habit for a few weeks, health and mood improve vastly.

>

> Deanna

Deanna, i love to exercise...i bike, rollerblade, cross country ski

in winter...walk the rest of the time.

i hardly ever eat fruit anymore...my diet is made up mostly of

rawdairy, meat and grains. i've also given up on veggies...i was

just throwing them away anyway, they would rot either before or after

i cooked them.

have been thinking of just having some raw dairy instead of

grains...i think that would work for me. kefir, yogurt, milk and

cheese...

what i find the most difficult is where bread

seems 'necessary'...like with a burger. or some tuna salad. or a

slice of liverwurst.

laura

[Guest guest]

> The way I finally gave up dairy was to do a " one week test "

> with no dairy. I.e. DON'T say " I'm giving this up for life " ...

> just " do an experiment " .

Heidi, good idea...so if i can do one week...what should i be looking

for after that week? seeing if i feel different, better? and if so,

then go another week?

>

> When stopping eating gluten, I think it helps a lot

> to let yourself pig out on say, rice pasta. Your body

> does tend to learn that the gluten just isn't there,

> then you stop craving the pasta. But meanwhile

> you don't have to fight the psychological trauma

> of " Oh no, I can't have pasta!!!!! " ... which is hard,

> esp. if you are already kinda depressed.

Heidi, i figured i was pigging out on the rice pasta cuz i'm addicted

to starch...you think maybe it was cuz there wasn't any--or as much--

gluten?

>

> You could also look at it like this: to do a good

> experiment, you should just do one variable

> at a time. So if you are testing if GLUTEN is the

> issue, go ahead and have carbs that are gluten

> free. The Tinkyada brown rice pasta is pretty

> NT friendly (the brown rice is enzymatically

> treated, kinda like soaking/fermenting it).

okay heidi i'll give it a go...but i have my favorite bread in the

house, a sourdough whole spelt (from Whole Foods) and it's going to

be tough, til it's gone. sometimes when i have a hard time resisting

something i say to myself...i can always have it at a later date,

just not today.

> Buckwheat pudding, as was recently posted,

> is NT friendly too. You can make NT friendly

> cookies too, but if you are off sugar

> you shouldn't miss those anyway.

i have the occasional chocolate or ice cream craving. been meaning

to get an ice cream maker to make very low sugar ice cream...this

should probably be a separate post, but can anyone recommend one and

from where?

maybe i should wait to go off gluten til i get my ice cream maker,

LOL! it would be something to look forward to, to substitute. ice

cream made with fruit only or very low sugar (actually maple syrup).

thanks heidi!

laura

[Guest guest]

I guess the question is not so much if you CAN afford a health coach, but rather

can you afford NOT to have a health coach?

General consensus is that we got one shot at Life... how you gonna use it?

People go all out for a prom, getting just the right outfit, having a contracted

limo, just the right dinner restaurant before the dance... go all out, and

that's just ONE night.... and weddings...wow...caterers, cake makers, music,

dress, flowers, photog / video, rings.... easily $10,000 + to make the " right "

start of a new life together...

Imagine if you invested that kind of planning and money on nutrition...where

would you be??

:-))

Re: Re: People poisoning themselves/ loooong

> i think i REALLY need some help and encouragement in this dept. Am

> sick and tired of being sick and tired...haven't been willing to give

> up gluten thus far but maybe i should just commit myself to just

> TRYING it.

Paging PanamaBob! I think this may be an area where an NT health

coach could make some $$, of course assuming that there are clients out

there with $$... I know if I had $$ I'd love a health coach, though

truthfully you guys have been that for me, and I thank you.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

<HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN "

" http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><BODY><FONT

FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " >

<B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B>

<UL>

<LI><B><A

HREF= " / " >NATIVE

NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI>

<LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.com/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire message

archive with Onibasu</LI>

</UL></FONT>

<PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A

HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B>

Idol

<B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer

Wanita Sears

</FONT></PRE>

</BODY>

</HTML>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

where bread is necessary....?

I saw a fast food burger joint offering hamburgers wrapped in lettuce...no bun.

Make ya think when bread really IS absolutely necessary...

OK, peanut butter and jelly on lettuce may be a bit weird.

:-)

>what i find the most difficult is where bread

>seems 'necessary'...like with a burger. or some >tuna salad. or a slice of

liverwurst.

[Guest guest]

:

>Heidi, good idea...so if i can do one week...what should i be looking

>for after that week? seeing if i feel different, better? and if so,

>then go another week?

It is different for everyone. After one day GF for me,

I felt like I'd got kicked by a horse ... brain dead,

couldn't move, couldn't think. Which tipped me

off that *something* was wrong. I substituted rice

for wheat, so it wasn't like I was giving up carbs at all,

and there is no way I should have been so sick. But

after 3 days, I felt calm and refreshed, better than

I had for years.

The weeks after were up and down, mainly because

I kept getting " accidental " gluten. A month later I

tried eating 2 slices of pizza and kind of went

nuts for awhile ... got major anxiety and depression.

THAT was what finally convinced me. Also scared me

enough that I didn't dare repeat the experiment (I've

had bits of gluten here and there accidentally, but

there is no way I'd eat a visible amount!).

A lot of people report that they don't feel all

that different after going GF, but then feel really

ill after a GF period when they DO eat it. Others report

feeling far different after about 3 days. Some people

who get tested and absolutely ARE celiac, don't show

any visible reaction to gluten at all.

But in the best case, you'll start feeling better after

about 3 days. Keeping a food diary ( with feelings

etc.) helps.

>

>Heidi, i figured i was pigging out on the rice pasta cuz i'm addicted

>to starch...you think maybe it was cuz there wasn't any--or as much--

>gluten?

It's hard to say. There are a few factors in the equation:

1. The body might be " looking for " the gluten, which

acts as an opiate.

2. If a person has gut problems they aren't

absorbing their food well, and they well crave

simple, easily digested calories (aka sugar

and starches). I used to eat a box of candy at

a sitting, but now I rarely can finish one or two

pieces, and it has to be REALLY GOOD chocolate

or I won't bother.

3. Psychological deprivation (one tends to

feel deprived as soon as you say " I'm giving up ... " )

4. Some people DO just get addicted to starch.

But overeating starchy foods

when a person goes GF is really typical. Those same

people a year or so later, often give up starches

altogether (they just don't like them as much).

okay heidi i'll give it a go...but i have my favorite bread in the

>house, a sourdough whole spelt (from Whole Foods) and it's going to

>be tough, til it's gone. sometimes when i have a hard time resisting

>something i say to myself...i can always have it at a later date,

>just not today.

I do that too. Keep in around (like in the freezer). I didn't

do that with gluten because of the scariness of

my pizza experiment (I was really, really glad there

was no loaded firearm around at that point!).

I think if you are used to having bread with your

liverwurst or whatever then you should get some

GF bread (which they sell at a lot of Whole Foods markets)

or crackers, which will make for a better experiment

anyway. My family really doesn't miss the " gluten " diet,

mainly because the food around the house is similar

(albeit better quality and more yummy) to our

old diet. So I would NOT give up " bread " ... just switch

brands for a bit!

>i have the occasional chocolate or ice cream craving. been meaning

>to get an ice cream maker to make very low sugar ice cream...this

>should probably be a separate post, but can anyone recommend one and

>from where?

I think mine is a Cuisinart ... it has a part you put in the

freezer, so you don't need salt and ice. Works

good but takes a long time and doesn't make

much ice cream. The salt and ice ones work a

lot faster. I still haven't found the perfect ice

cream maker though. The " McFlurry " maker they

sell the kids is actually the easiest one I've seen: I

wish there was an adult version!

>maybe i should wait to go off gluten til i get my ice cream maker,

>LOL! it would be something to look forward to, to substitute. ice

>cream made with fruit only or very low sugar (actually maple syrup).

It's really easy to make. If you are waiting though, go

look for some good GF bread (or try my recipe: it's

pretty easy. Chebe bread is really easy too).

We've been making more smoothies than ice

cream lately though. Smoothies are just EASY.

2 bananas, a handful of coconut (or some coconut milk),

some ice and some water, blend ... REALLY YUMMY.

The ice moooshes up and you end up with something

like a Marguerita without the tequila. Or with the tequila,

if you prefer!

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> where bread is necessary....?

>

> I saw a fast food burger joint offering hamburgers wrapped in

lettuce...no bun.

oh really? which one? i might have to pay them a (rare) visit.

>

laura

[Guest guest]

Heidi...what about potatoes? sweet potatoes? they're okay, right?

when i want a starch i tend to gravitate toward bread and crackers

cuz they need no cooking or preparation...like rice or potatoes. or

beets!

did you ever have (raw) sour cream (or creme fraiche) on a sweet

potato or baked beets? awesome!

when i read the Diet Cure by julia ross (author of the Mood cure) she

said to lose wt. you need to stay away from wheat (she's seen it over

and over, give up wheat and lose wt.) and instead, had people eating

potatoes, rice and corn tortillas.

laura

>

> But overeating starchy foods

> when a person goes GF is really typical. Those same

> people a year or so later, often give up starches

> altogether (they just don't like them as much).