Re: weird water-fasting poop

[Guest guest]

BTW, I feel MUCH better after that poop! It's like a huge load was lifted

off me. This is the best I've felt since starting my fast.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze,

<Well speaking of poop and colons,

You might enjoy the following article. Well or not you believe the guy,

he's pretty funny.

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/activities/rest/story/0,8642,666182,00.html

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of West

>

>

>Suze,

>

><Well speaking of poop and colons,

>

>You might enjoy the following article. Well or not you believe the guy,

>he's pretty funny.

>

>http://travel.guardian.co.uk/activities/rest/story/0,8642,666182,00.html

Wow - GREAT article! It was hilarious and amazing. I wish I'd been

doing enemas all along! I just ordered an enema kit from

http://www.optimalhealthnetwork.com before reading it. The owner of this

site is a WAPF chapter leader, BTW.

So my coffee enemas won't begin until I've already transitioned to potassium

broth it seems (since i won't get the enema kit till next week). But I'll do

a cheap drugstore enema today. I decided on that yesterday cuz I want to get

out as much stuff as I can.

Thanks - it was a fun read!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>The weird thing is that the poop was peppered with all these little hard

>things that looked like small lemon seeds. I'm not in the habit of eating

>lemon seeds, except by accident. The sheer amount of these things would

>account for more lemon seeds than I've consumed in my lifetime though. So

>I'm doubting they were lemon seeds. They were the general shape and color.

>Maybe they were undigested popcorn kernels? But they weren't popcorn color.

>Could they be stones of some sort? I really don't know what to make of it!

>

>

>Suze Fisher

OK, at the risk of being gross ... you get something like that when you

have tapeworms, maybe some other parasites. You probably have

seen them in dogs though?

Heidi

[Guest guest]

On 8/18/05, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

> Suze,

>

> <Well speaking of poop and colons,

>

> You might enjoy the following article. Well or not you believe the guy,

> he's pretty funny.

>

> http://travel.guardian.co.uk/activities/rest/story/0,8642,666182,00.html

Hi ,

I was laughing my butt of the whole time! Thanks for finding that.

Reminded me of my early days of fasting and I wasn't even using

enemas!

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Heidi

>Schuppenhauer

>

>

>

>>The weird thing is that the poop was peppered with all these little hard

>>things that looked like small lemon seeds. I'm not in the habit of eating

>>lemon seeds, except by accident. The sheer amount of these things would

>>account for more lemon seeds than I've consumed in my lifetime though. So

>>I'm doubting they were lemon seeds. They were the general shape and color.

>>Maybe they were undigested popcorn kernels? But they weren't

>popcorn color.

>>Could they be stones of some sort? I really don't know what to make of it!

>>

>>

>>Suze Fisher

>

>OK, at the risk of being gross ... you get something like that when you

>have tapeworms, maybe some other parasites. You probably have

>seen them in dogs though?

I don't understand what lemon seeds have to do with tapeworms? I think I've

seen tapeworms before but they look like worms. This looked like lemon seeds

and no sign of worms in the stool. Yes I did manipulate it a bit. <weg>

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

The eggs look like grains of rice.

RE: weird water-fasting poop

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Heidi

I don't understand what lemon seeds have to do with tapeworms? I think I've

seen tapeworms before but they look like worms. This looked like lemon seeds

and no sign of worms in the stool. Yes I did manipulate it a bit. <weg>

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of L.L.

>

>

>The eggs look like grains of rice.

OK, but my things were quite a bit bigger than grains of rice. They were

lemon seed sized and roundish, not oblong. And hard!

It's a stinkin' mystery....

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

This thread and that story have reminded me of the time, as a

teenager, doing anything BUT fasting, I passed a long string of

fishing line during a bowel movement. I took it, and pulled it, and

it kept coming out, and out, and out. It appeared to be made of

nylon.

And to this day I have forever wondered how that got there in the

first place, and whether or not any of the pot I was smoking then had

really given me the munchies THAT bad.

Chris

--

Want the other side of the cholesterol story?

Find out what your doctor isn't telling you:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

> OK, at the risk of being gross ... you get something like that when

you

> have tapeworms, maybe some other parasites. You probably have

> seen them in dogs though?

>

>

> Heidi

Does anyone know if tapeworms or other " large " parasites are visible

during a colonoscopy?

Connie

[Guest guest]

> OK, but my things were quite a bit bigger than grains of rice. They were

> lemon seed sized and roundish, not oblong. And hard!

>

> It's a stinkin' mystery....

Suze,

Except for one salient point--the fuzziness--they sound similar to

what Doug on calls " fuzzies:

" ...I was shocked when...I passed quite a number of strange looking

things into the toilet. They were approximately one centimeter in

diameter, and generally of a whitish or grey color, with black or

brown feelers or tentacles attached to them. People in Body

Electronics politely refer to them as 'fuzzies'. These are carcinoid

tumors, and they are frequently found in people's intestines...Only

when I saw these first few fuzzies did it really become obvious to me

that my knee troubles were the least of my problems. " --How We Heal

FWIW.

B.

[Guest guest]

>Does anyone know if tapeworms or other " large " parasites are visible

>during a colonoscopy?

>Connie

You kinda wonder how they could NOT be visible. Given that

a tiny, tiny cyst the size of a pinhead looks pretty big under

that magnification. But if you want to see them life size in

a colon there are some pretty disgusting pictures:

http://www.mgm.ufl.edu/~gulig/mmid/parasitology-davidson-color04.pdf

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>[] Except for one salient point--the fuzziness--they sound similar to

>what Doug on calls " fuzzies:

>

> " ...I was shocked when...I passed quite a number of strange looking

>things into the toilet. They were approximately one centimeter in

>diameter, and generally of a whitish or grey color, with black or

>brown feelers or tentacles attached to them. People in Body

>Electronics politely refer to them as 'fuzzies'. These are carcinoid

>tumors, and they are frequently found in people's intestines...Only

>when I saw these first few fuzzies did it really become obvious to me

>that my knee troubles were the least of my problems. " --How We Heal

>

[suze] Luckily, none of these hard things in my stool have the

characteristic

tentacles of tumors so I'm not worried about that.

[Deanna] Dr. on may delve into (or latch onto) native nutrition,

however, I would like to know where he gets the idea that stool

" fuzzies " are carcinoid. Furthermore, the entire notion of " body

electronics " is a complete laugh to anyone familiar with even basic

electronic knowledge (I realize we are few and far between) on this

list. JC is an engineer, perhaps he will comment. My comments of his

Body Electronics mumbo jumbo from his site are this: he never once

speaks of electrons or qualities or equations or graphs or pictures.

And where the hell is any basic knowledge of biology, pray tell?

http://www.howweheal.com/be.htm

" Body Electronics is a unique system of self healing. Through nutrient

saturation (proper diet and natural supplementation), a revolutionary

method of sustained acupressure, and the understanding and application

of the basic laws governing the physical, emotional and mental bodies,

one can achieve health. "

What laws? I see no F = ma, e = mc^2, W = 1/2mv^2, no nothing spelled

out in the language of science. Basically this whole notion is a

pathetic attempt to hoodwink an ignorant lay class of people; 50 years

ago stale shit from Dr. Ray when Vanda graphs and fluoroscopes would be

the ultimate solution to what ails you. Basically it draws from a

version of yogic philosophy of sorts (note: philosophy, not science).

You want to learn electronics, then take calculus, physics and

electronics. Electronics has yet to be applied to the body in any real

sense. You can fool some of the people some of the time ...

This guy somehow managed to get a BA (instead of BS) in applied math (is

that advanced arithmetic?). What a waste of four years and money. But

most brilliant among the yawnable items in his resume is this:

" While in Maui from 1986 to 1989, Doug attended four Visual &

Consciousness courses with Dr. Ray. At the 1989 Advanced V & C course,

Doug passed through the Time-Space-Continuum-Warp. (For a more extensive

discussion of this experience, please refer to the three books in Dr.

Ray's Logic In Sequence series or Doug's first book Body Electronics

Fundamentals.) "

Yee hee hee, he passed through and never came back! Where's Sagan's

Baloney Detection Kit when you need it?

He is selling something. Get it?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> [Deanna] Dr. on may delve into (or latch onto) native nutrition,

> however, I would like to know where he gets the idea that stool

> " fuzzies " are carcinoid. Furthermore, the entire notion of " body

> electronics " is a complete laugh to anyone familiar with even basic

> electronic knowledge (I realize we are few and far between) on this

> list. JC is an engineer, perhaps he will comment. My comments of his

> Body Electronics mumbo jumbo from his site are this: he never once

> speaks of electrons or qualities or equations or graphs or pictures.

> And where the hell is any basic knowledge of biology, pray tell?

>

> http://www.howweheal.com/be.htm

> " Body Electronics is a unique system of self healing. Through nutrient

> saturation (proper diet and natural supplementation), a revolutionary

> method of sustained acupressure, and the understanding and application

> of the basic laws governing the physical, emotional and mental bodies,

> one can achieve health. "

>

> What laws? I see no F = ma, e = mc^2, W = 1/2mv^2, no nothing spelled

> out in the language of science. Basically this whole notion is a

> pathetic attempt to hoodwink an ignorant lay class of people; 50 years

> ago stale shit from Dr. Ray when Vanda graphs and fluoroscopes would be

> the ultimate solution to what ails you. Basically it draws from a

> version of yogic philosophy of sorts (note: philosophy, not science).

> You want to learn electronics, then take calculus, physics and

> electronics. Electronics has yet to be applied to the body in any real

> sense. You can fool some of the people some of the time ...

>

> This guy somehow managed to get a BA (instead of BS) in applied math

(is

> that advanced arithmetic?). What a waste of four years and money. But

> most brilliant among the yawnable items in his resume is this:

>

> " While in Maui from 1986 to 1989, Doug attended four Visual &

> Consciousness courses with Dr. Ray. At the 1989 Advanced V & C course,

> Doug passed through the Time-Space-Continuum-Warp. (For a more

extensive

> discussion of this experience, please refer to the three books in Dr.

> Ray's Logic In Sequence series or Doug's first book Body Electronics

> Fundamentals.) "

>

> Yee hee hee, he passed through and never came back! Where's Sagan's

> Baloney Detection Kit when you need it?

>

> He is selling something. Get it?

Deanna,

Displaced aggression or what? What Suze described reminded me of

something Doug on--with whom I studied several years ago and who

introduced me to WAPF and NT--once mentioned. I thought it might be

relevant to her.

I have no interest in defending him or his racket from you so just

back off. Doug didn't coin the term Body Electronics. I was repelled

by the copious supplements and other factors. BE is frankly marma

therapy with a spin. Do I think Doug is sincere and trying to

help/helping people? Yes. He is, for example, not smug or self-serving.

B.

[Guest guest]

>Displaced aggression or what? What Suze described reminded me of

>something Doug on--with whom I studied several years ago and who

>introduced me to WAPF and NT--once mentioned. I thought it might be

>relevant to her.

>

>I have no interest in defending him or his racket from you so just

>back off. Doug didn't coin the term Body Electronics. I was repelled

>by the copious supplements and other factors. BE is frankly marma

>therapy with a spin. Do I think Doug is sincere and trying to

>help/helping people? Yes. He is, for example, not smug or self-serving.

>

,

Why is it whenever I say something you find disagreeable, you start to

attack me as a person, usually calling me an aggressive pitta.

often rails Mercola's bs, but you don't chastise him. I have no

aggression. I was laughing as I read more from this guy's site (which

ain't nearly as factually informative as Mercola's), which you quoted.

No one asked you to defend him. I was stating my take on it, and you

are not my mother nor are you a doctor to tell me to back off. If I

want to have a field day with Doug on's effervescent quackery,

then I will do just that. Thank you very much and have a great day. I

am off for my morning run.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

.......

> Furthermore, the entire notion of " body

> electronics " is a complete laugh to anyone familiar with even basic

> electronic knowledge (I realize we are few and far between) on this

> list. JC is an engineer, perhaps he will comment. My comments of

his

> Body Electronics mumbo jumbo from his site are this: he never once

> speaks of electrons or qualities or equations or graphs or pictures.

> And where the hell is any basic knowledge of biology, pray tell?

>

> http://www.howweheal.com/be.htm

....

> Deanna

Oh, Deanna, thank you for remembering me and reminding me that I'm an

engineer. Actually I'm an engineer, but I'd rather say I was one,

because almost since I graduated, about 30 years ago, I've been

operating in the bureaucratic field rather than in engineering itself.

And I'm a civil engineer, anyway, Eletronics and Electricity not being

my forte, you know. I'm sorry to disappoint you.

However, speaking as an individual rather than an engineer, but without

aiming to have the last word on Body Electronics or whatever, I'd say

that I'm usually wary of novelties and smart nomenclaturas. This is my

usual predisposition, you know. I may be wrong, but I still believe

that wisdom is as old as the hills.

Cheers to you,

JC

[Guest guest]

> ,

> Why is it whenever I say something you find disagreeable, you start to

> attack me as a person, usually calling me an aggressive pitta.

> often rails Mercola's bs, but you don't chastise him. I have no

> aggression. I was laughing as I read more from this guy's site (which

> ain't nearly as factually informative as Mercola's), which you quoted.

> No one asked you to defend him. I was stating my take on it, and you

> are not my mother nor are you a doctor to tell me to back off. If I

> want to have a field day with Doug on's effervescent quackery,

> then I will do just that. Thank you very much and have a great day. I

> am off for my morning run.

Deanna,

Wasn't quoting from the site. What Suze asked reminded me of

something Doug once said and I looked it up in his book. Just now,

for the first time in several years, I've looked at his site and I

can't even read it, my head spinning. I can see it's easy to

criticize especially if you have no experience or knowledge whatsoever

of his person or practice.

If you care to read a well-written overview, you'll find one here:

http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/healing-body-electronics.html

As I said, I don't care a fig for Body Electronics and don't wish to

misrepresent myself by defending it in any way but I feel obligated to

respond when your posts are addressed to me and something I've written.

The " electronics " part undoubtedly refers to prana and the nadis and

I'm not sure why you are unable to understand that unless you missed a

class at Iyengar school.

B.

[Guest guest]

>

>If you care to read a well-written overview, you'll find one here:

>

>http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/healing-body-electronics.html

>

>

Oh yes, I was going to bring up the melanin concerning the claim of more

thoughts and failed to do so. From the site (which is a fair review) above:

" 1) that many people with dark eyes experienced iris color change from

brown to green or blue as a result of practicing BE, often after having

practiced for only a very short time

2) that many people with any kind of dark pigmentation to their skin

(tan, dark skin, etc.) experienced a drastic lightening of skin color as

a result of practicing BE, or, as Ray put it " as they healed and

got rid of toxins and sun damage "

3) that some people with dark hair color experienced a lightening of

their hair color toward blonde as a result of healing due to practice of

BE (this is a more marked change than the more-common effect which he

claimed of loss of grey or white hair and return to original natural

hair color) "

Maybe that's how did it <tic>. Seriously, these are the

claims I have seen in the various raw foods movement. Shazzie's eyes

change back and forth depending on the photo you see. But unless we

scrutinize and investigate these claims for their validity, they are

useless. How do we know what is doing something (if it is really

occurring in the first place) unless we apply observation and

experimentation? If these practitioners are really doing what they

claim, wouldn't they want to demonstrate it to the world and increase

popularity (a la yoga in the west)?

>As I said, I don't care a fig for Body Electronics and don't wish to

>misrepresent myself by defending it in any way but I feel obligated to

>respond when your posts are addressed to me and something I've written.

>

>

Oh. Well, please don't feel obliged to respond to me just because I may

have quoted you. It was nothing personal at all. It's good on

brought you to the science of Dr. Price. I didn't know your history

with BE, but I do know a bit about electronics. It is the control of

electrons in electro-mechanical devices using complex number

mathematics. Things like TVs, semiconductors and stereo components are

electronic. So when the term electronics is used for something having

nothing whatsoever to do with " electronics " it is not very accurate at

the very least. Furthermore, since electronics is a branch of testable

science, using such a name is very misleading to the public. This is

how I feel about it generally:

http://www.skeptic.com/ (from the link " Skeptic Manifesto " a Javascript

frame)

" The second popular notion that skeptics are closed-minded to certain

beliefs comes from a misunderstanding of skepticism and science.

Skeptics and scientists are not necessarily " closed-minded " (though they

may be since they are human). They may once have been open-minded to a

belief, but when the evidence came up short they rejected it. There are

already enough legitimate mysteries in the universe for which evidence

provides scientists fodder for their research. To take the time to

consider " unseen " or " unknown " mysteries is not always practical. When

the non-skeptic says, " you're just closed-minded to the unknown forces

of the universe, " the skeptic responds: " We're still trying to

understand the known forces of the universe. " "

>The " electronics " part undoubtedly refers to prana and the nadis and

>I'm not sure why you are unable to understand that unless you missed a

>class at Iyengar school.

> B.

>

Again, electronics is a specific sort of thing, and while the nadis in

particular are analogous to " electrical flow " , in no way are they

electronic or even electrical in nature, afaik. If they were, we could

easily measure, test and manipulate the 72,000 reported nadis in a very

real, physical way. Electronics is a branch of physics. Yoga is a

philosophy. Big difference.

Guruji (BKS Iyengar), in his infinite wisdom, prefaces comments on

subjects not relating to the gross physical plane throughout his many

books by saying, " It is said... " He does not make bold claims and has

spent decades helping people in real tangible ways. His approach is

practical. I respect him immensely, but I do not worship him, nor do I

believe he is infallible. Finally, I can derive benefit from yoga

without subscribing, believing or adhering to all of the tenets.

More than space-time exists most likely as higher dimensions are

mathematically quite groovy. But it is like religion: we can all dream

up the playing field and games rules for anything supernatural.

Concerning my health, which is in space-time, I would like a proven or

evidence-supported model(s). Is my aura as blue-white as I am told? Is

my temperament based on my dosha, astrological sign and/or numerology?

Will the saints pray for me? I don't know. I do know that the placebo

effect works. And whatever folks want to believe to help them get by is

fine. I tend to see it as an innate power of survival. But stating a

belief as fact and selling it as such is not okay, imho.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> Again, electronics is a specific sort of thing, and while the nadis in

> particular are analogous to " electrical flow " , in no way are they

> electronic or even electrical in nature, afaik. If they were, we could

> easily measure, test and manipulate the 72,000 reported nadis in a very

> real, physical way. Electronics is a branch of physics. Yoga is a

> philosophy. Big difference.

Deanna,

Did they not teach you yoga anatomy in Iyengar school? Are you aware

of Guru-ji's understanding of anatomy? Do you really live in a world

void of metaphor?

B.

[Guest guest]

,

>>Again, electronics is a specific sort of thing, and while the nadis in

>>particular are analogous to " electrical flow " , in no way are they

>>electronic or even electrical in nature, afaik. If they were, we could

>>easily measure, test and manipulate the 72,000 reported nadis in a very

>>real, physical way. Electronics is a branch of physics. Yoga is a

>>philosophy. Big difference.

>>

>>

>

> Deanna,

>Did they not teach you yoga anatomy in Iyengar school? Are you aware

>of Guru-ji's understanding of anatomy? Do you really live in a world

>void of metaphor?

> B.

>

>

Sure I learned yogic anatomy. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with

electronics. You said the nadis and prana are electronic, and this is simply

false. I learned physics and mathematics at university. Metaphors are great,

but they ain't literal. My body and its constituents are literal, not

metaphorical, regardless at which plane or dimension or

whatever-you-want-to-call-it the subtleties of my self reside. If the nadis,

prana and chakras are indeed electrical or electronic, then we can easily detect

them with medical instruments right now. Today. Have you studied physics

and/or calculus? If not then how can you even comment on a subject like

electronics for which the other subjects are prerequisite?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>

Furthermore, the entire notion of " body

electronics " is a complete laugh to anyone familiar with even basic

electronic knowledge (I realize we are few and far between) on this

list.

Hmm. Well Deanna, I am an engineer and while I have not looked into

this Body-electronics idea, I am most fascinated by most types

of " Energy Medicine " . Why? Because they have worked on me when nothing

else would.

I can see how such things " could " have an effect. The body is more

than a physical form, we have many subtle energy fields that we can't

see, nor even test with current technologies.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

We will see it in the end and eventually technology will catch up.

Remember it was decades before accupuncture was accepted. Reminds me

of another quote:

As Arthur Schopenhaur said, " There are three steps in the revelation

of any truth: in the first, it is ridiculed; in the second, resisted;

in the third, it is considered self-evident. "

Try not to judge too harshly, that which you /personally/ do not

understand.

Cheers,

*S*

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

> Sure I learned yogic anatomy. But it has nothing whatsoever to do

with electronics. You said the nadis and prana are electronic, and

this is simply false.

Nope. I never said that. I said the term Body Electronics

undoubtedly refers to prana and the nadis. It's a repackaging of

marma therapy. It seems the term was coined in the fifties--I don't

know the history--so its greatest offense, to me, is its quaintness.

The sick thing is I so don't care about this.

I learned physics and mathematics at university. Metaphors are

great, but they ain't literal.

a-hahahaha.

My body and its constituents are literal, not metaphorical,

regardless at which plane or dimension or whatever-you-want-to-call-it

the subtleties of my self reside. If the nadis, prana and chakras are

indeed electrical or electronic, then we can easily detect them with

medical instruments right now. Today. Have you studied physics

and/or calculus?

Yes, I have. At university, even.

If not then how can you even comment on a subject like electronics

for which the other subjects are prerequisite?

I'm not commenting on electronics; you seem unable to grasp that it's

just a figure of speech and I'm attempting to assist you with that.

I'm commenting on figures of speech. Enjoy your meat sheath.

B.

[Guest guest]

Sue,

>Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

>

>

True, but that Body Electronics is anything but body electronics.

>We will see it in the end and eventually technology will catch up.

>Remember it was decades before accupuncture was accepted.

>

Has acupuncture been accepted? I thought the jury was still out on

that. Interestingly, it seems that people respond to the needles in the

skin effect in non traditional points, according to some studies. Does

that mean it works?

http://skepdic.com/acupunc.html

" The most frequently offered defense of acupuncture by its defenders

commits the pragmatic fallacy. It is argued that acupuncture works! What

does this mean? It certainly does not mean that sticking needles into

one's body opens up blocked chi. At most, it means that it relieves some

medical burden. Most often it simply means that some customer is

satisfied, that is, feels better at the moment. The NCAHF issued a

position paper on acupuncture that asserts, " Research during the past

twenty years has failed to demonstrate that acupuncture is effective

against any disease " and that " the perceived effects of acupuncture are

probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion,

counter-irritation, operant conditioning, and other psychological

mechanisms. " In short, most of the perceived beneficial effects of

acupuncture are probably due to mood change, the placebo effect, and the

regressive fallacy. Just because the pain went away after the

acupuncture doesn't mean the treatment was the cause. Much chronic pain

comes and goes. An alternative treatment such as acupuncture is sought

only when the pain is near its most severe level. Natural regression

will lead to the pain becoming less once it has reached its maximum

level of severity. Also, much of the support for acupuncture is

anecdotal in the form of testimonial evidence from satisfied customers.

Unfortunately, for every anecdote of someone whose pain was relieved by

acupuncture there may well be another anecdote of someone whose pain was

not relieved by acupuncture But nobody is keeping track of the failures

(confirmation bias). "

>Reminds me

>of another quote:

>

>As Arthur Schopenhaur said, " There are three steps in the revelation

>of any truth: in the first, it is ridiculed; in the second, resisted;

>in the third, it is considered self-evident. "

>Try not to judge too harshly, that which you /personally/ do not

>understand.

>Cheers,

>*S*

>

Of course. But not all things pan out to be " truths. " Remember " cold

fusion " that made it all the way to Capitol Hill only to be subsequently

ridiculed, and never passing the other stages? I am not passing

judgment. I am differentiating between proven treatments and things

that people find working for them individually, which may include the

placebo effect and things with no real merit to the populous at large.

Cheers!

Deanna

" Nature must be obeyed, not orthodoxy. " - Weston A. Price

[Guest guest]

>Enjoy your meat sheath.

> B.

>

Enjoy your control issues.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 8/21/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> Sure I learned yogic anatomy. But it has nothing whatsoever to do with

> electronics. You said the nadis and prana are electronic, and this is

> simply false. I learned physics and mathematics at university. Metaphors

> are great, but they ain't literal. My body and its constituents are

> literal, not metaphorical, regardless at which plane or dimension or

> whatever-you-want-to-call-it the subtleties of my self reside. If the

> nadis, prana and chakras are indeed electrical or electronic, then we can

> easily detect them with medical instruments right now. Today. Have you

> studied physics and/or calculus? If not then how can you even comment on a

> subject like electronics for which the other subjects are prerequisite?

Hmm. Maybe I'm reading too much into this here, but I think there is

a sort of " metaphor " or something similar in atomic/molecular theory

with respect to electrons. Just look at molecular orbital theory and

the classic (forgot the name!) paradigm-- totally different views

about how electrons are arranged, but both are used, depending on the

situation. They're, to some degree, theoretical constructs that are

in some sense, sort of similar to metaphor.

Chris

--

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