Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

[Guest guest]

Hi , I am considering and have priced out system I may get if and

when house is properly clean of any mold problems. I just wonder do

new air handling systems -NOT- have fiberglass components any longer?

We have discussed off line before but ductwork I have in this home has

no fiberglass. I is all large round metal ducts, EXCEPT in main unit

around blower. I am guessing to dampen noise of air blower engine.

Looking at it, it looks old and is kind of orangey in color but not

black or dirty in color. Still I am on with this post not

questioning whether there is contamination in it, but just whether

newer unit would be fiberglass free.

>

> What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding

contamination in the air handler?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , I am considering and have priced out system I may get if and

when house is properly clean of any mold problems. I just wonder do

new air handling systems -NOT- have fiberglass components any longer?

We have discussed off line before but ductwork I have in this home has

no fiberglass. I is all large round metal ducts, EXCEPT in main unit

around blower. I am guessing to dampen noise of air blower engine.

Looking at it, it looks old and is kind of orangey in color but not

black or dirty in color. Still I am on with this post not

questioning whether there is contamination in it, but just whether

newer unit would be fiberglass free.

>

> What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding

contamination in the air handler?

>

[Guest guest]

This is true. In the course of our indoor assessments we always inspect inside register boots, ductwork and air handler plenums, coils, etc. (if any). In commercial buildings with union requirements they generally arrange for a union representative or union engineer to provide access to the interior of the handler. If EC's are conducting assessments but not inspecting certain components of the air handler and ductwork they are at risk of missing (or ruling out) significant sources of contamination (mold, water accumulation, bacteria, fiberglass shedding, pest infestation, debris accumulation, biofilm, even asbestos). Some of the cleanest appearing buildings have the dirtiest air handling systems.

I respectfully disagree with , however, that an EC needs to be an expert on how to "properly repair the inspection point". The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert (perhaps NADCA certified) if contamination is suspected or confirmed by sampling and analysis.

Unfortunately, many of the duct cleaning and HVAC folks I've encountered are heavy handed with biocides and other sanitizing products. I always recommend that clients read the EPA documentation on the subject if cleaning is recommended. Some of you might remember last year when I posted about being called in to an assessment after a chrysanthemum-based product was used in a client's ductwork because, according to the duct cleaning company, it is a "safe and green product" but after application her asthma became significantly exacerbated. After insight from many of you, from the EPA, and other sources it was determined that the product should not have been used in ductwork and could easily cause her symptoms. Yet people use this particular company because of the natural and green remedies they sell. We often find printed material that duct cleaning companies hand out claiming a product is "EPA Approved" and yet if you do the research, it is not "approved" specifically for ductwork application. The consumer should beware.

Amy S.

Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

[Guest guest]

Just keep the new unit clean with good quality air filters.

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

Hi , I am considering and have priced out system I may get if and when house is properly clean of any mold problems. I just wonder do new air handling systems -NOT- have fiberglass components any longer? We have discussed off line before but ductwork I have in this home has no fiberglass. I is all large round metal ducts, EXCEPT in main unit around blower. I am guessing to dampen noise of air blower engine. Looking at it, it looks old and is kind of orangey in color but not black or dirty in color. Still I am on with this post not questioning whether there is contamination in it, but just whether newer unit would be fiberglass free. >> What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air

handler?>

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

Just keep the new unit clean with good quality air filters.

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

Hi , I am considering and have priced out system I may get if and when house is properly clean of any mold problems. I just wonder do new air handling systems -NOT- have fiberglass components any longer? We have discussed off line before but ductwork I have in this home has no fiberglass. I is all large round metal ducts, EXCEPT in main unit around blower. I am guessing to dampen noise of air blower engine. Looking at it, it looks old and is kind of orangey in color but not black or dirty in color. Still I am on with this post not questioning whether there is contamination in it, but just whether newer unit would be fiberglass free. >> What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air

handler?>

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

Just keep the new unit clean with good quality air filters.

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

Hi , I am considering and have priced out system I may get if and when house is properly clean of any mold problems. I just wonder do new air handling systems -NOT- have fiberglass components any longer? We have discussed off line before but ductwork I have in this home has no fiberglass. I is all large round metal ducts, EXCEPT in main unit around blower. I am guessing to dampen noise of air blower engine. Looking at it, it looks old and is kind of orangey in color but not black or dirty in color. Still I am on with this post not questioning whether there is contamination in it, but just whether newer unit would be fiberglass free. >> What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air

handler?>

We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Guest guest]

Amy said ...

"The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"

What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books. com

Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

Amy said ...

"The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"

What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books. com

Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

,

Why do you dissect statements and spin quotes out of context? While the primary context of my post was in agreement with your statements (surprise, surprise), and in agreement with you that EC's should check these areas, you seemed to miss the point that I clearly stated that we do look inside ductwork and air handlers, indeed I even stated that we have union representatives open the units if required for us to have access in certain cases. I also clearly stated if a suspect condition is observed or verified by testing (condition may be microbial contamination, it may be water infiltration, it may be that a duct is torn open in a filthy, wet crawlspace, it could be a myriad of things!) it should then be noted (condition described in the report) and deferred an HVAC expert - meaning recommendation for further assessment of the mechanical condition, or appropriate cleaning, or repair should be conducted by the HVAC expert - based on the initial findings of the assessment whatever that condition may be. In the same way, as an analogy, if a general home inspector sees that wiring is amiss in an electrical panel he should make note of the condition and defer to an electrical specialist for further inspection and evaluation or correction of the condition. -Amy

Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books. com

Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

,

Keep in mind, I believe in Florida someone said Fl.

Requires a licensed HV/AC tech to open the system (is that true?).

EnviroBob

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 3:01

PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold

Assessments and Air Handlers

Amy said ...

" The condition should be noted in the report

and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert "

What condition? You need to open it up to see if

there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside

an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of

the mold training courses.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Mlold

Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding

contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding

the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the

use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass

plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You

Have the Air Ducts in Your Home

Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated

with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually

inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect

the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms

have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small

amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air

quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are

actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or

remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity

sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores

in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.

com

Looking for earth-friendly autos?

Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Yahoo!

Autos' Green Center.

Expecting? Get great news right away with email

Auto-Check.

Try the Yahoo!

Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

Amy,

You wrote: I respectfully

disagree with ,

however, that an EC needs to be an expert on how to " properly repair

the inspection point " . The condition should be noted in the report

and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert (perhaps NADCA

certified) if contamination is suspected or confirmed by sampling and analysis.

May I disrespectfully disagree and humbly present

my response: If an EC creates an opening, it would be the EC’s

responsibility to close the inspection port thereafter especially when as you

stated there is suspect of (or potential for) contamination dissemination beyond

the system above normal pathways already in place. Such an opening may cause greater

concentrations of a dispersal to reach the building occupants during the interim (or until the

tech arrives to resecure the opening). We may not like it or it may pose an

issue but I think

has a good point here.

EnviroBob

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Amy Siedlecki

Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 1:12

PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Mold

Assessments and Air Handlers

This is true. In the course of our indoor assessments we always inspect

inside register boots, ductwork and air handler plenums, coils, etc. (if

any). In commercial buildings with union requirements they generally

arrange for a union representative or union engineer to provide

access to the interior of the handler. If EC's

are conducting assessments but not inspecting certain components of

the air handler and ductwork they are at

risk of missing (or ruling out) significant sources of

contamination (mold, water accumulation, bacteria, fiberglass shedding, pest

infestation, debris accumulation, biofilm, even asbestos). Some of

the cleanest appearing buildings have the dirtiest air handling

systems.

I respectfully disagree with ,

however, that an EC needs to be an expert on how to " properly repair

the inspection point " . The condition should be noted in the report

and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert (perhaps NADCA

certified) if contamination is suspected or confirmed by sampling and analysis.

Unfortunately, many of the duct cleaning and HVAC folks I've

encountered are heavy handed with biocides and other sanitizing products. I

always recommend that clients read the EPA documentation on the subject if

cleaning is recommended. Some of you might remember last year when I posted

about being called in to an assessment after a chrysanthemum-based

product was used in a client's ductwork because, according to the duct

cleaning company, it is a " safe and green product " but

after application her asthma became significantly exacerbated. After

insight from many of you, from the EPA, and other sources it was

determined that the product should not have been used in ductwork and could

easily cause her symptoms. Yet people use this particular company

because of the natural and green remedies they sell. We often find printed

material that duct cleaning companies hand out claiming a product is " EPA

Approved " and yet if you do the research, it is not " approved "

specifically for ductwork application. The consumer should beware.

Amy S.

Mlold

Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding

contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in

understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct

work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal,

fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned?

www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is

contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually

inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training

programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor

inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related

symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small

amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air

quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are

actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor

or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity

sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores

in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Looking for earth-friendly autos?

Browse

Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

[Guest guest]

I agree with . The first place I look at when beginning my inspection is at the air-handling unit. I also believe that for about 70-80% of people lliving in a sick house, the cause is the air-handling unit, associated ducts and plenum and presence of holes in walls that allow air from inner wall cavities to enter air-handling unit. Let's not forget about the figerglass insulation present on inside of air-handling unit or the pathetic "filter" included in many new air-handlers. Add in a/c contractors that never really clean the unit, but charge for it. To top it off, people like to store cleaning chemicals in the air-handling unit closet. The whole house can be spotless, and then you find dust throughout air-handling unit closet. These things are obvious problems to me, but yet many professionals who do mold inspections, do not bother with these issues. In south florida, these situations are the norm.

Sherrygary rosen wrote: Amy said ... "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert" What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses. Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-Books.com Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler? What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting. See the EPA pub: Should

You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new. How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point? Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs? Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor? In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work? In our experience there is

too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated. And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick. What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space. Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects? Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-Books. com Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. Expecting? Get great news right away

with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

I agree with . The first place I look at when beginning my inspection is at the air-handling unit. I also believe that for about 70-80% of people lliving in a sick house, the cause is the air-handling unit, associated ducts and plenum and presence of holes in walls that allow air from inner wall cavities to enter air-handling unit. Let's not forget about the figerglass insulation present on inside of air-handling unit or the pathetic "filter" included in many new air-handlers. Add in a/c contractors that never really clean the unit, but charge for it. To top it off, people like to store cleaning chemicals in the air-handling unit closet. The whole house can be spotless, and then you find dust throughout air-handling unit closet. These things are obvious problems to me, but yet many professionals who do mold inspections, do not bother with these issues. In south florida, these situations are the norm.

Sherrygary rosen wrote: Amy said ... "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert" What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses. Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-Books.com Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler? What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting. See the EPA pub: Should

You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new. How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point? Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs? Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor? In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work? In our experience there is

too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated. And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick. What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space. Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects? Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-Books. com Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. Expecting? Get great news right away

with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

I agree with . The first place I look at when beginning my inspection is at the air-handling unit. I also believe that for about 70-80% of people lliving in a sick house, the cause is the air-handling unit, associated ducts and plenum and presence of holes in walls that allow air from inner wall cavities to enter air-handling unit. Let's not forget about the figerglass insulation present on inside of air-handling unit or the pathetic "filter" included in many new air-handlers. Add in a/c contractors that never really clean the unit, but charge for it. To top it off, people like to store cleaning chemicals in the air-handling unit closet. The whole house can be spotless, and then you find dust throughout air-handling unit closet. These things are obvious problems to me, but yet many professionals who do mold inspections, do not bother with these issues. In south florida, these situations are the norm.

Sherrygary rosen wrote: Amy said ... "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert" What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses. Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-Books.com Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler? What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting. See the EPA pub: Should

You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new. How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point? Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs? Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor? In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work? In our experience there is

too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated. And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick. What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space. Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects? Rosen, Ph.D. www.Mold-Books. com Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. Expecting? Get great news right away

with email Auto-Check.Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Guest guest]

Amy,

I misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks for the explanation. Agreed!

(I thought you were saying that an air duct cleaner was somehow an HVAC expert.)

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books. com

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[Guest guest]

said ... many professionals who do mold inspections do not check the AC or ducts.

Shouldn't there be a disclosure that the home owner signs so that he understands that the inspection does not cover the AC and ducts? Isn't there a conflict of interest when the EC does not disclose the limited nature of the inspection. After all, said that for 70-80% of people living in a sick house .. the cause in the AH, ducts, plenum or AC closet related leaks.

No wonder mold assessors don't have mold insurance! They miss the problem making people sick 70-80% of the time if they don't thoroughly check the AC system!

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Mlold Assessments and Air Handlers

What responsibility does the mold assessor have to understanding contamination in the air handler?

What responsibility does the mold assessor have in understanding the EPA recommendations regarding cleaning air handlers and duct work and the use of chemicals/ biocides to clean/ sanitize metal, fiberglass plenums, and plastic lined ducting.

See the EPA pub:

Should You Have the Air Ducts in Your Home Cleaned? www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airduct.html

According to the EPA, once fiberglass duct liner is contaminated with mold it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced with new.

How many mold assessors are trained to know how to visually inspect inside fiberglass plenums and properly repair the inspection point?

Why is this not part of mold assessor standard training programs?

Is there a conflict of interest to have the mold assessor inspect the air handler and components rather than a licensed AC contractor?

In our experience 80% of the people ill from mold related symptoms have mold contamination in their air handlers and/or duct work?

In our experience there is too much focus on removing small amounts of mold hidden in wall cavities that does not impact the indoor air quality and will eventually die if the water source is eliminated.

And not enough focus is on contaminated AC systems that are actually making people sick.

What are the legal and ethical concerns of a mold assessor or remediator focusing on removing mold in a wall cavity because a wall cavity sample showed mold inside the wall, but there are no elevated mold spores in the living space.

Why are there no industry guidelines on these subjects?

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books. com

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[Guest guest]

wow. now we have "certified mold assessors" checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an "air handling unit", it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with "some minimal training".

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

mailto:wab@... On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

"To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham

> Amy said ...> > "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"> > What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.> > Rosen, Ph.D.> www.Mold-Books.com> >

[Guest guest]

wow. now we have "certified mold assessors" checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an "air handling unit", it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with "some minimal training".

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

mailto:wab@... On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

"To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham

> Amy said ...> > "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"> > What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.> > Rosen, Ph.D.> www.Mold-Books.com> >

[Guest guest]

Wane,

You are right in all you say. However if you look at the AmIAQC web site it states that if you hire a CIE after a 4 day course you get:

An Environmental Consultant is a professional who can identify the causes of poor indoor air quality – even when problems seem vague or unrelated to visible causes. The Environmental Consultant is trained to see a building the way a general practitioner sees the body of his patient – as an organic whole with dozens of inter-related systems contributing to overall health. In order to diagnose the patient properly, the Consultant must be able to gather and interpret data from various systems operating in a building. His experience and training must therefore come from a wide range of disciplines:

Industrial Hygiene – The Environmental Consultant understands the sources and potential effects of chemicals and other substances in the indoor environment, from asbestos to formaldehyde to VOCs.

Building Sciences – The Environmental Consultant understands the building envelope and has experience in the disciplines related to the design, construction and operation of buildings. These disciplines include architecture, building codes, HVAC, plumbing, insulation, concrete and building materials, weather proofing, facilities maintenance, acoustics, ergonomics, air and moisture flows, pressure relationships, temperature and humidity monitoring, infrared thermography and diagnostic air sampling.

Environmental Risk Assessment – The Environmental Consultant understands the consequences (intended and unintended) of building design, operation and maintenance decisions and their potential to impact overall environmental quality.

He/she actually thinks he can diagnose a sick house after the course. There are no restrictions. He carries no E & O insurance so why does he care if he errs or omits? Unlike the CRMI course the CIE does not need to have any training in home inspection.

There is no disclosure that he is not qualified to check the AC and will not even look at it ... even though 70-80% of sick people (per Sherry) are sick from mold contaminated ACs at least in S FLA.

He just skips the AC and finds some surface mold so he can refer a job to a remediator buddy and get called in to do a PRV on remediating 1 sq in of mold.

Wane. Why is there no hands-on training in any mold assessor courses on inspecting air handlers, leaky closets, or ducts? For residential this is not brain surgery.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

wow. now we have "certified mold assessors" checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an "air handling unit", it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with "some minimal training".

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com On the web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

"To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham

> Amy said ...> > "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"> > What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.> > Rosen, Ph.D.> www.Mold-Books. com> >

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Wane,

You are right in all you say. However if you look at the AmIAQC web site it states that if you hire a CIE after a 4 day course you get:

An Environmental Consultant is a professional who can identify the causes of poor indoor air quality – even when problems seem vague or unrelated to visible causes. The Environmental Consultant is trained to see a building the way a general practitioner sees the body of his patient – as an organic whole with dozens of inter-related systems contributing to overall health. In order to diagnose the patient properly, the Consultant must be able to gather and interpret data from various systems operating in a building. His experience and training must therefore come from a wide range of disciplines:

Industrial Hygiene – The Environmental Consultant understands the sources and potential effects of chemicals and other substances in the indoor environment, from asbestos to formaldehyde to VOCs.

Building Sciences – The Environmental Consultant understands the building envelope and has experience in the disciplines related to the design, construction and operation of buildings. These disciplines include architecture, building codes, HVAC, plumbing, insulation, concrete and building materials, weather proofing, facilities maintenance, acoustics, ergonomics, air and moisture flows, pressure relationships, temperature and humidity monitoring, infrared thermography and diagnostic air sampling.

Environmental Risk Assessment – The Environmental Consultant understands the consequences (intended and unintended) of building design, operation and maintenance decisions and their potential to impact overall environmental quality.

He/she actually thinks he can diagnose a sick house after the course. There are no restrictions. He carries no E & O insurance so why does he care if he errs or omits? Unlike the CRMI course the CIE does not need to have any training in home inspection.

There is no disclosure that he is not qualified to check the AC and will not even look at it ... even though 70-80% of sick people (per Sherry) are sick from mold contaminated ACs at least in S FLA.

He just skips the AC and finds some surface mold so he can refer a job to a remediator buddy and get called in to do a PRV on remediating 1 sq in of mold.

Wane. Why is there no hands-on training in any mold assessor courses on inspecting air handlers, leaky closets, or ducts? For residential this is not brain surgery.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

wow. now we have "certified mold assessors" checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an "air handling unit", it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with "some minimal training".

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com On the web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

"To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham

> Amy said ...> > "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"> > What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.> > Rosen, Ph.D.> www.Mold-Books. com> >

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Wane,

You are right in all you say. However if you look at the AmIAQC web site it states that if you hire a CIE after a 4 day course you get:

An Environmental Consultant is a professional who can identify the causes of poor indoor air quality – even when problems seem vague or unrelated to visible causes. The Environmental Consultant is trained to see a building the way a general practitioner sees the body of his patient – as an organic whole with dozens of inter-related systems contributing to overall health. In order to diagnose the patient properly, the Consultant must be able to gather and interpret data from various systems operating in a building. His experience and training must therefore come from a wide range of disciplines:

Industrial Hygiene – The Environmental Consultant understands the sources and potential effects of chemicals and other substances in the indoor environment, from asbestos to formaldehyde to VOCs.

Building Sciences – The Environmental Consultant understands the building envelope and has experience in the disciplines related to the design, construction and operation of buildings. These disciplines include architecture, building codes, HVAC, plumbing, insulation, concrete and building materials, weather proofing, facilities maintenance, acoustics, ergonomics, air and moisture flows, pressure relationships, temperature and humidity monitoring, infrared thermography and diagnostic air sampling.

Environmental Risk Assessment – The Environmental Consultant understands the consequences (intended and unintended) of building design, operation and maintenance decisions and their potential to impact overall environmental quality.

He/she actually thinks he can diagnose a sick house after the course. There are no restrictions. He carries no E & O insurance so why does he care if he errs or omits? Unlike the CRMI course the CIE does not need to have any training in home inspection.

There is no disclosure that he is not qualified to check the AC and will not even look at it ... even though 70-80% of sick people (per Sherry) are sick from mold contaminated ACs at least in S FLA.

He just skips the AC and finds some surface mold so he can refer a job to a remediator buddy and get called in to do a PRV on remediating 1 sq in of mold.

Wane. Why is there no hands-on training in any mold assessor courses on inspecting air handlers, leaky closets, or ducts? For residential this is not brain surgery.

Rosen, Ph.D.

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

wow. now we have "certified mold assessors" checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an "air handling unit", it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with "some minimal training".

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

mailto:wab@michaels engineering. com On the web at: http://www.michaels engineering. com

"To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham

> Amy said ...> > "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"> > What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.> > Rosen, Ph.D.> www.Mold-Books. com> >

8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Wane:

All so very eloquently stated!

wow. now we have " certified mold assessors " checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an " air handling unit " , it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with " some minimal training " .

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@...

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com <http://www.michaelsengineering.com/>

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun? "

- Graham

> Amy said ...

>

> " The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert "

>

> What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.

>

> Rosen, Ph.D.

> www.Mold-Books.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wane:

All so very eloquently stated!

wow. now we have " certified mold assessors " checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an " air handling unit " , it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with " some minimal training " .

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@...

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com <http://www.michaelsengineering.com/>

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun? "

- Graham

> Amy said ...

>

> " The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert "

>

> What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.

>

> Rosen, Ph.D.

> www.Mold-Books.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wane:

All so very eloquently stated!

wow. now we have " certified mold assessors " checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an " air handling unit " , it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with " some minimal training " .

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><>

Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH

Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality

MICHAELS ENGINEERING

" Real Professionals. Real Solutions. "

St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484

Cell

Fax

mailto:wab@...

On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com <http://www.michaelsengineering.com/>

" To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun? "

- Graham

> Amy said ...

>

> " The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert "

>

> What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.

>

> Rosen, Ph.D.

> www.Mold-Books.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good Morning, Wane!

For the record, in the posts concerning HVAC I used the term "air handler" generically for the purpose of simplicity. My posts were also ridden with typos as a result of using text messaging to communicate this weekend. But I must chime in here and mention that not all residential forced air units are classified as furnaces. Heat pumps, for example, move warm air through ducts but do not use combustion. Amy

Re: Mold Assessments and Air Handlers

wow. now we have "certified mold assessors" checking air handling equipment. that's just great.

since this listserv seems to be endlessly stuck on residential work, let's start here. it's not an "air handling unit", it's a forced-air furnace. in most residential forced-air furnace installations, the A-coil (evaporator) is inaccessible. and if you're cutting into the sheet metal supply air plenum to access the A-coil, you'd damn well better know what you're doing -- otherwise, you could slice into the refrigerant lines or the coil itself. this is not a task for mold inspectors with "some minimal training".

if there is a reason to examine a residential evaporator, have an HVAC contractor create that opening for you. and of course! --make sure it's patched properly. this does NOT mean an oversized blank and a few zip screws. the patch must be hemmed, cross-broken and caulked or ideally, gasketed.

if we're talking about anything other than residential work, and you don't have an appropriate background in engineering or HVAC contracting -- STOP!! do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or two cents, for that matter). commercial, institutional and industrial air handling systems get complex in a hurry. and more often that not, problems with those systems are in the operating controls. so again, unless you're an expert in the associated controls, call for someone who does know what they're doing --please? this does not mean a CIH, one of the Council's certs, or a Pizza hut Delivery in biochemistry.

finally, for a residential investigation of elevated humidity levels, many times the first place to look is the water heater -- not the forced-air furnace. if you don't know why, stop doing mold work right now and go back to whatever it is you were doing last week.

Wane

<><><><><><><><><><><> Wane A. Baker, P.E., CIH Division Manager, Indoor Air Quality MICHAELS ENGINEERING"Real Professionals. Real Solutions." St. , La Crosse, Milwaukee

Phone , ext. 484 Cell Fax

mailto:wabmichaelsengineering On the web at: http://www.michaelsengineering.com

"To love what you do and feel that it matters - how could anything be more fun?" - Graham

> Amy said ...> > "The condition should be noted in the report and deferred for further inspection by an HVAC expert"> > What condition? You need to open it up to see if there is a condition. You don't need to be an expert to check inside an air handler. Just some minimal training that is not provided by any of the mold training courses.> > Rosen, Ph.D.> www.Mold-Books.com> >