RE: Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab

[Guest guest]

Hi Angel, I would look to the person who was originally given the results--AND who wrote the report. The lab will analyze and give results for any/all samples that were submitted. EmLAB is a very reputable lab--they also give results in a couple of different formats. DawneAngel says NO MORE 2 Clarins wrote: I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY interesting in the following

ways:1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples were taken and only 4 reports were generated?3. Is is "NORMAL" to somehow "DECIDE" not to use actual swab samples?4. When a report is "GENERATED" isn't some description of the type of equipment used to be discussed?5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it "NORMAL" to provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?ThanksAngel

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[Guest guest]

Hi Angel, Your story wasn't exactly complete, but I will try my best. (1) It is not the lab's responsibility to oversee your project and make sure you got all the reports. It's your consultant's/inspector's. The lab analyzes samples together or separately depending on the turn-around-time and/or the type of analysis requested by your consultant/inspector. Several lab reports could be generated from one project. (2) When consultants/inspectors send samples to the lab, they should have submitted a Chain-of-Custody (COC) listing all the samples taken with that project. Check the COC to see how many samples were taken. If the consultant/inspector told the lab not to analyze certain samples listed on the COC, the lab should have kept a record. (3) If someone is purposely trying to lie to you, s/he could have submited your samples in two batches

to the lab (2 COCs), and only give one set of results to you. The lab will have no idea that those two batches of samples come from the same building. Ultimately, the lab is responsible to the consultant/inspector, and the consultant/inspector is reponsible to you, or whoever pays them. (4) The consultant/inspector should have written a complete report with ALL the lab reports along with his/her own investigation report. Ask to see the whole report. (5) The lab only see the devices that collected the samples, not the equipment. The devices should have been listed on the lab report. That's all I can think of now. If you describe your story competely, we might be able to share more. Wei TangQLab Angel says NO MORE 2 Clarins wrote: I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY interesting in the following ways:1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples were taken

and only 4 reports were generated?3. Is is "NORMAL" to somehow "DECIDE" not to use actual swab samples?4. When a report is "GENERATED" isn't some description of the type of equipment used to be discussed?5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it "NORMAL" to provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?ThanksAngel Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Angel, Your story wasn't exactly complete, but I will try my best. (1) It is not the lab's responsibility to oversee your project and make sure you got all the reports. It's your consultant's/inspector's. The lab analyzes samples together or separately depending on the turn-around-time and/or the type of analysis requested by your consultant/inspector. Several lab reports could be generated from one project. (2) When consultants/inspectors send samples to the lab, they should have submitted a Chain-of-Custody (COC) listing all the samples taken with that project. Check the COC to see how many samples were taken. If the consultant/inspector told the lab not to analyze certain samples listed on the COC, the lab should have kept a record. (3) If someone is purposely trying to lie to you, s/he could have submited your samples in two batches

to the lab (2 COCs), and only give one set of results to you. The lab will have no idea that those two batches of samples come from the same building. Ultimately, the lab is responsible to the consultant/inspector, and the consultant/inspector is reponsible to you, or whoever pays them. (4) The consultant/inspector should have written a complete report with ALL the lab reports along with his/her own investigation report. Ask to see the whole report. (5) The lab only see the devices that collected the samples, not the equipment. The devices should have been listed on the lab report. That's all I can think of now. If you describe your story competely, we might be able to share more. Wei TangQLab Angel says NO MORE 2 Clarins wrote: I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY interesting in the following ways:1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples were taken

and only 4 reports were generated?3. Is is "NORMAL" to somehow "DECIDE" not to use actual swab samples?4. When a report is "GENERATED" isn't some description of the type of equipment used to be discussed?5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it "NORMAL" to provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?ThanksAngel Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

[Guest guest]

Angel,

IMHO, your take on the situation is correct. Press for the missing

information.

In all candidness, I am also guilty of taking quite some time to issue

reports, so the five months doesn't seem out of the realm of reality,

although it's not ideal. Depends on the seriousness and timeliness that

the situation would dictate.

Chuck Reaney

I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY

interesting in the following ways:

1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they

include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my

opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave

me, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap

report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture

samples that he took.

2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6

samples

were taken and only 4 reports were generated?

3. Is is " NORMAL " to somehow " DECIDE " not to use actual swab

samples?

4. When a report is " GENERATED " isn't some description of the type of

equipment used to be discussed?

5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it " NORMAL " to

provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?

Thanks

Angel

__________________________________________________

Alpha Environmental, Inc.

Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting

624 W. Saint s Dr.

Media, PA 19063

Phone: Fax: Cell:

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Angel,

The report arriving 5 months after the sampling

regiment occurred may have a degree that some of the samples are missing. Maybe

due to being soooooo behind the consultant missed something (just a different perspective).

I am just giving the benefit of the doubt. Regardless it is not the best

situation nor would I say it is normal or professional i.e. to provide a report

5 months later and secondly the report missing sampling information. The

greater of the two is that the sampling information is missing. Basically the

report could be seen as skewed and worthless in the end (as well the samples).

Even if it was an innocent oversight, it doesn’t look good to the client

or those who have been affected.

EnviroBob

From:

iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Angel says NO MORE 2 Clarins

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 8:58

PM

To: iequality

Subject: Incomplete

mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab

I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY

interesting in the following ways:

1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include

in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is

completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me

rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing

was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.

2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples

were taken and only 4 reports were generated?

3. Is is " NORMAL " to somehow " DECIDE " not to use actual

swab samples?

4. When a report is " GENERATED " isn't some description of the type of

equipment used to be discussed?

5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it " NORMAL " to

provide

BOTH rather than just releasing just one?

Thanks

Angel

[Guest guest]

Angel,

This is NOT the proper forum to air “dirty

laundry” or to write potentially libelous claims. You are involved in an

on-going law suit that apparently is not going well for you. If you have

competent representation for your case he/she should be able to shed light on

your questions and concerns.

Ken Duvall

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Angel says NO MORE 2 Clarins

Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 5:58

PM

To: iequality

Subject: Incomplete

mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab

I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY

interesting in the following ways:

1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include

in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is

completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me

rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing

was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.

2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples

were taken and only 4 reports were generated?

3. Is is " NORMAL " to somehow " DECIDE " not to use actual

swab samples?

4. When a report is " GENERATED " isn't some description of the type of

equipment used to be discussed?

5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it " NORMAL " to

provide

BOTH rather than just releasing just one?

Thanks

Angel

[Guest guest]

I do not know Brevin and have never seen his work but it is nonetheless my opinion that it is inappropriate to use a public forum such as this to issue a complaint, especially when using an individual's name in the context of strong language such as "incompetent". There are appropriate avenues for making complaints where both parties can present their side of the story.

While stories like this are good discussion fodder, it is my opinion that, to be fair and for the sake of privacy, we should keep specific names anonymous in this type of post unless both parties agree to openly discuss the situation on the forum.

Amy S.

Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab

I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY interesting in the following ways:1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples were taken and only 4 reports were generated?3. Is is "NORMAL" to somehow "DECIDE" not to use actual swab samples?4. When a report is "GENERATED" isn't some description of the type of equipment used to be discussed?5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it "NORMAL" to provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?ThanksAngel

[Guest guest]

Angel,

It’s been a while since I’ve

posted on here, but here is my take on the situation you (Angel) described:

I’m

sure your consultant had a reason, but 5 months to generate a report for a

site assessment wherein only 6 samples were collected is excessive. There

is only so much information to be gleaned from half a dozen samples.

Although

I definitely make it a point to explain why, there have been times where I’ve

collected samples but not analyzed them. Here are several reasons

why I might not analyze a collected sample:

Perhaps

the samples were damaged in transit to the office/lab/wherever.

Perhaps

two samples overlapped and I personally didn’t want to waste

everyone’s money analyzing two samples testing the same area for

the same thing. This is also described in the report.

Perhaps

the client decided that they didn’t want to pay for some of the

analyses.

Perhaps

the lab lost them during incubation due to overcrowding in the incubator

or overgrowth of a plate. Some fungi, Mucor for example, completely takes over a plate

during incubation and frequently makes further analysis impossible.

Attorneys,

more often than not, complicate matters a great deal. That isn’t

to say they aren’t sometimes necessary, but it’s entirely

possible the consultant’s report sat on an attorney’s desk for

much of that 5 months, because they were either busy with other cases or

weren’t paid timely or simply forgot (just like the rest of the

world).

EMLab

enjoys a good reputation that is well deserved. They do nothing more

than analyze whatever the consultant has sent them and issue a

report. That is the length and breadth of their involvement in any

given project.

It

is up to the consultant to decide how they want to release analytical results.

Typically they write several reports, one prior to remediation and one

following the work. In the interest of saving time and money, they

might only issue one report upon completion of the remedial work. In

either case, however, it is usually in the consultant’s best

interests to release all analytical data with proper interpretation.

In any case, it makes sense to CALMLY

bring your concerns to your consultant, or CALMLY request your attorney do the

same. That’s the only way to get the truth (or some form of it).

Good luck.

A. Walsh

IAQ Manager

ECC Inc.

1 Emery Avenue

Randolph, NJ 07869

Off:

x 47

Fax:

From:

iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck Reaney

Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:26

AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re:

Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab

Angel,

IMHO, your take on the situation is correct. Press for the missing

information.

In all candidness, I am also guilty of taking quite some time to issue

reports, so the five months doesn't seem out of the realm of reality,

although it's not ideal. Depends on the seriousness and timeliness that

the situation would dictate.

Chuck Reaney

I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY

interesting in the following ways:

1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they

include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my

opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave

me, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap

report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture

samples that he took.

2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6

samples

were taken and only 4 reports were generated?

3. Is is " NORMAL " to somehow " DECIDE " not to use actual

swab

samples?

4. When a report is " GENERATED " isn't some description of the type of

equipment used to be discussed?

5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it " NORMAL " to

provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?

Thanks

Angel

__________________________________________________

Alpha Environmental, Inc.

Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting

624 W. Saint s Dr.

Media, PA

19063

Phone: Fax: Cell:

__________________________________________________

Spam

Not

spam

Forget

previous vote

[Guest guest]

I agree. I would like to see this to become a policy/rule/guideline for this group. Let's leave the names out of this discussion. Discuss the "facts" but not "who". After all, it's only your personal opinions. Of course, unless it's public enemy #1. Then we probably need to know "who". Wei Tang QLabAmy Siedlecki wrote: I do not know Brevin and have never seen his work but it is

nonetheless my opinion that it is inappropriate to use a public forum such as this to issue a complaint, especially when using an individual's name in the context of strong language such as "incompetent". There are appropriate avenues for making complaints where both parties can present their side of the story. While stories like this are good discussion fodder, it is my opinion that, to be fair and for the sake of privacy, we should keep specific names anonymous in this type of post unless both parties agree to openly discuss the situation on the forum. Amy S. Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY interesting in the following ways:1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me

rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples were taken and only 4 reports were generated?3. Is is "NORMAL" to somehow "DECIDE" not to use actual swab samples?4. When a report is "GENERATED" isn't some description of the type of equipment used to be discussed?5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it "NORMAL" to provide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?ThanksAngel Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com

[Guest guest]

This is not the first time that his name has been brought by me. I can

assert my opinion, predicated on what I observed and TAPED during his

" sampling " . Along with his verbal " testimony " in a hearing.

I am no stranger to controversy or walking the so called " fine line " in

voicing my opinion whether it be in a discussion group, or in legal

pleadings.

My post was to solicit opinions regarding turn around time and non full

disclosure of test results.

I understand what you are saying and thank you for your opinion also,

> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:46:07 -0700

>

> Reply-To: iequality

> To: iequality

> Subject: Re: Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental

> Microbiology Lab

>

> I do not know Brevin and have never seen his work but it is nonetheless

my opinion that it is inappropriate to use a public forum such as this to issue

a complaint, especially when using an individual's name in the context of strong

language such as " incompetent " . There are appropriate avenues for making

complaints where both parties can present their side of the story.

>

> While stories like this are good discussion fodder, it is my opinion that, to

be fair and for the sake of privacy, we should keep specific names anonymous in

this type of post unless both parties agree to openly discuss the situation on

the forum.

>

> Amy S.

>

> Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental

Microbiology Lab

>

>

>

>

> I have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY

> interesting in the following ways:

>

> 1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do they include

> in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in my opinion is

> completely incomptent in providing full results, only gave me, or let me

> rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trap report) nothing

> was alluded to being from the wall and furniture samples that he took.

>

> 2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 samples

> were taken and only 4 reports were generated?

>

> 3. Is is " NORMAL " to somehow " DECIDE " not to use actual swab samples?

>

> 4. When a report is " GENERATED " isn't some description of the type of

> equipment used to be discussed?

>

> 5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it " NORMAL " to provide

> BOTH rather than just releasing just one?

>

> Thanks

>

> Angel

>

>

>

" Disease is the retribution of outraged nature. "

Hosea Ballou

" Some remedies are worse than the disease. "

Pubilius Syrus

" Toliet water was MEANT to be FLUSHED, not WORN! "

Angel

" If having endured much, we at last asserted our 'right to know' and if,

knowing, we have concluded that we are being asked to take senseless and

frightening risks, then we should no longer accept the counsel of those

who tell us that we must fill our world with poisonous chemicals, we

should look around and see what other course is open to us. "

Carson

" My toxicasa (world) is your toxicasa (world). "

Judith Goode

" For cheese does not prove equally injurious to all men, for there are

some who can take it to satiety, without being hurt by it in the least,

but, on the contrary, it is wonderful what strength it imparts to those it

agrees with; but there are some who do not bear it well, their

constitutions are different, they differ in this respect, that what in

their body is incompatible with cheese, is roused and put it in commotion

by such a thing; and those in whose bodies such a humor happens to prevail

in greater quantity and intensity, are likely to suffer the more from it.

But if the thing had been pernicious to the whole nature of man, it would

have hurt all. "

Hippocrates

[Guest guest]

Pat, You stated: "Perhaps the lab lost them during incubation due to overcrowding in the incubator or overgrowth of a plate. Some fungi, Mucor for example, completely takes over a plate during incubation and frequently makes further analysis impossible." (1) Lose plates in the incubator? That would be horrible, but not impossible. (2) Spreader: Thanks for bring that up. It's the reality, but not too many people pays attention to that. If you see one of the common spreaders (Mucor, Rhizopus, Trichoderma) reported observed on MEA , it means others could be "significantly" inhibited. However, they grow slow on DG18. Add DG18 to the media list should take care of

that. Wei Tang QLabPat Walsh wrote: Angel, It’s been a while since I’ve posted on here, but here is my take on the situation you (Angel) described: I’m sure your consultant had a reason, but 5 months to generate a report for a site assessment wherein only 6 samples were collected is excessive. There is only so much information to be gleaned from half a dozen samples. Although I definitely make it a point to explain why, there have been times where I’ve collected samples but not analyzed

them. Here are several reasons why I might not analyze a collected sample: Perhaps the samples were damaged in transit to the office/lab/wherever. Perhaps two samples overlapped and I personally didn’t want to waste everyone’s money analyzing two samples testing the same area for the same thing. This is also described in the report. Perhaps the client decided that they didn’t want to pay for some of the analyses. Perhaps the lab lost them during incubation due to overcrowding in the incubator or overgrowth of a plate. Some fungi, Mucor for example, completely takes over a plate during incubation and frequently makes further analysis impossible. Attorneys, more often than not, complicate matters a great deal. That isn’t to say they aren’t sometimes necessary, but it’s entirely possible the consultant’s report sat on an attorney’s desk for much of that 5 months, because they were either busy with other cases or weren’t paid timely or simply forgot (just like the rest of the world). EMLab enjoys a good reputation that is well deserved. They do nothing more than analyze whatever the consultant has sent them and issue a report. That is the length and breadth of their involvement in any given project. It is up to the consultant to decide how they want to release analytical results. Typically they write several reports, one prior to remediation and one following the work. In the interest of saving time and money, they might only issue one report upon completion of the remedial work. In either case, however, it is usually in the consultant’s best interests to release all analytical data with proper interpretation. In any case, it makes sense to CALMLY bring your concerns to your consultant, or CALMLY request your attorney do the same. That’s the only way to get the truth (or some form of it). Good luck. A. Walsh IAQ Manager ECC Inc. 1 Emery Avenue Randolph, NJ 07869 Off: x 47 Fax: From: iequality

[mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Chuck ReaneySent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:26 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Incomplete mold report/ Brevin/Environmental Microbiology Lab Angel,IMHO, your take on the situation is correct. Press for the missing information.In all candidness, I am also guilty of taking quite some time to issue reports, so the five months doesn't seem out of the realm of reality, although it's not

ideal. Depends on the seriousness and timeliness that the situation would dictate.Chuck ReaneyI have just received after 5 MONTHS a mold report and it's VERY interesting in the following ways:1. When Environmental Microbiology Lab sends a report, do theyinclude in ONE report both air and swab samples? As who in myopinion is completely incomptent in providing full results, only gaveme, or let me rephrase that the ATTORNEY only gave me air (spore trapreport) nothing was alluded to being from the wall and furnituresamples that he took.2. How RELIABLE is this Environmetnal Microbiology Lab when 6 sampleswere taken and only 4 reports were generated?3. Is is "NORMAL" to somehow "DECIDE" not to use actual swab samples?4. When a report is "GENERATED" isn't some description of the type ofequipment used to be

discussed?5. If a pre and post air sampling was done ISN'T it "NORMAL" toprovide BOTH rather than just releasing just one?ThanksAngel__________________________________________________Alpha Environmental, Inc.Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting624 W. Saint s Dr.Media, PA 19063Phone: Fax: Cell:__________________________________________________ SpamNot spamForget previous vote Wei Tang, Ph.D. Lab Director QLab5 DriveCherry Hill, NJ 08003www.QLabUSA.com