American IAQ Council's list of insured companies

[Guest guest]

I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks about the

American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with

" professional " or " errors & omissions " insurance.

I think it is great for many good reasons:

1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do

investigations or write remediation plans.

2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet

scared marketplace.

3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance carriers

look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc. Insurance

carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by economic

necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that was concerned

about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.

4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's

certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for

themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look look

and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).

It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send

copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at the

customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance certificate,

I would be a fool to do anything but give great service. This is a step

in the right direction for an industry that wants to self police itself

rather than let states regulate.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

[Guest guest]

Greg,

And will force the cost of remediation

even higher. And if you read the policy, most don’t even cover the RC.

What a joke.

EnviroBob

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Greg Weatherman

Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007

4:59 PM

To: iequality

Subject: American IAQ

Council's list of insured companies

I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks about the

American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with

" professional " or " errors & omissions " insurance.

I think it is great for many good reasons:

1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do

investigations or write remediation plans.

2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet

scared marketplace.

3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance carriers

look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc. Insurance

carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by economic

necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that was concerned

about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.

4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's

certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for

themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look look

and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).

It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send

copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at the

customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance certificate,

I would be a fool to do anything but give great service. This is a step

in the right direction for an industry that wants to self police itself

rather than let states regulate.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

[Guest guest]

Greg and Bob,

I agree with Bob completely, and I resent the inference that

because I carry only General Liability, and not E & O/Professional

Liability that I fit into the category of " fly by night " as you put it.

I have busted my ass for the past 21+ years to provide to my

clients with the best services humanly and professionally possible.

Initially as a remediation contractor for five years and subsequently

as a consultant, never as both at one time.

I have NEVER (not ONCE) even been looked in the direction of for

being sued for anything I've done in my profession. NEVER.

Why?? Because I know what I'm doing, I stick to what I know, I'm

honest, and I strive for perfection and cost efficiency for each and

every client, every time.

Greg, are you or your brother-in-law in the insurance sales game or

something? Is the Council getting commissions or kick-backs from

this portion of their web site? They're SUPPOSED to be a

Certification Organization, NOT insurance salesmen. It'd be

interesting to see if there are reciprocal or similar statements and/or

links on the insurance company's web page extollling the virtues of

the Council's certifications as well. Talk about CONFLICT OF

INTEREST!!

I find the Council's presentation of this information to be highly

prejudicial, and this information doesn't even belong on thier site as

a Certification Organization. If they WANTED to add just a little bit

of objectivity to this inappropriate and out of place propaganda,

they would indicate which members have General Liability in one

column and which have E & O in another column in tabular form.

But it's all about the E & O, isn't it?

Another issue is that since they are SUPPOSED to ONLY be

involved in the certification game and NOT in the insurance game,

and since they ONLY certifiy INDIVIDUALS and NOT

COMPANIES, what business is it of theirs to promote COMPANIES

who have E & O insurance. Again, talk about Conflict of Interest!

The whole thing stinks of the possibility of money changing hands,

mutual back-scratching or both, IMHO, and I as a Council multi-

certificant holder am NOT HAPPY.

I find your attitude and statements to be inconsiderate, rude,

unrealistic and highly offensive.

Yes, there are problems in our industry. But driving up the cost of

services that capable and honest practitioners with smaller firms

provide to clients, many of whom can barely afford us to begin with,

even at reduced rates, for the sake of feeding the insurance

machine is NOT the solution. Maybe it is in polyanna land where

practitioners can AFFORD to do sloppy work.

Sorry, that's not the planet where I live or practice my profession.

Chuck Reaney, CIEC, CIAQC, CIAQP

Greg,

And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if you read

the policy, most don’t even cover the RC. What a joke.

EnviroBob

_____

From: iequality

[mailto:iequality ] On

Behalf Of Greg Weatherman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007

4:59 PM

To: iequality Subject: American IAQ

Council's list of insured companies

I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks

about

the American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone

with

" professional " or " errors & omissions " insurance.

I think it is great for many good reasons:

1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do

investigations or write remediation plans.

2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet

scared marketplace.

3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance

carriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc.

Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by

economic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that

was

concerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100

years ago.

4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's

certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for

themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look

look

and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).

It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send

copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at

the

customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance

certificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great service.

This is a step in the right direction for an industry that wants to

self police itself rather than let states regulate.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

__________________________________________________

Alpha Environmental, Inc.

Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting

624 W. Saint s Dr.

Media, PA 19063

Phone: Fax: Cell:

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Very well said.

Bob

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Bob. That reallly pushed my buttons!

Regards,

Chuck

Chuck,

Very well said.

Bob

[Guest guest]

Dear Chuck, Let's step back, take a deep breath and rethink the whole thing about insurance. The success of the Council will be their ability to sell memberships and to do that they MUST provide one or more essential services. Let's agree their involvement in the insurance game is to enhance the value of their memberships. Now let's look at your logic regarding GL vs. E & O. Here I question what you are saying. For the professional in the mold remediation or IAQ business I'd say the E & O is needed to protect against lawsuits related to certifications, protocols or designs. Yes, it will be by far the most expensive in the insurance package but it is the only insurance protecting against claims relating to the advice or decisions rendered. GL insurance covers claims primarily resulting from "accidents" resulting in property damage or bodily injury or personal injury if that coverage is also available. Unfortunately property owners usually only ask for the GL coverage and that is the easiest to procure. Regarding your comments toward Greg: I don't think they are warranted. Greg is proud of his shop and obviously wishes his clients to know he is as "fully" covered as possible. Being such is a mark of distinction. Is it necessary for you or I to be as fully covered? That's a business decision for you and I to make. Now what is the value of the GL coverage? It does satisfy most clients who are quick to demand an insurance certificate. IMO it is absolutely necessary when the professional is using or handling equipment, having electric cords across the floors [tripping hazards], renting equipment, putting hands on thermostats or switches, etc, etc. etc. However if your business is only to inspect without opening doors, do some sniffing about and take a few swabs or air samples then there is little exposure to justify the GL coverage. However, if those are the only exposures then the premiums should be so low to be insignificant. The reason I don't like to see the Council publishing lists of members with coverage is such is a violation of privacy... those lists are obsolete the day following their publication, ...there are NO STANDARDS for E & O insurance therefore such a publication is giving a false sense of security to the general public... The privacy issue should be moot as that is a question for the potential customer to ask. Ken =================== American IAQCouncil's list of insured companiesI would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks aboutthe American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with"professional" or "errors & omissions" insurance.I think it is great for many good reasons:1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, doinvestigations or write remediation plans.2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yetscared marketplace.3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurancecarriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc.Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force byeconomic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that wasconcerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization'scertifications are worth the money. Our customers can see forthemselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look lookand run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and sendcopies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at thecustomer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurancecertificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great service.This is a step in the right direction for an industry that wants toself police itself rather than let states regulate.Regards,Greg WeathermanaerobioLogical Solutions Inc.__________________________________________________Alpha Environmental, Inc.Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting624 W. Saint s Dr.Media, PA 19063Phone: Fax: Cell:__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Chuck, Let's step back, take a deep breath and rethink the whole thing about insurance. The success of the Council will be their ability to sell memberships and to do that they MUST provide one or more essential services. Let's agree their involvement in the insurance game is to enhance the value of their memberships. Now let's look at your logic regarding GL vs. E & O. Here I question what you are saying. For the professional in the mold remediation or IAQ business I'd say the E & O is needed to protect against lawsuits related to certifications, protocols or designs. Yes, it will be by far the most expensive in the insurance package but it is the only insurance protecting against claims relating to the advice or decisions rendered. GL insurance covers claims primarily resulting from "accidents" resulting in property damage or bodily injury or personal injury if that coverage is also available. Unfortunately property owners usually only ask for the GL coverage and that is the easiest to procure. Regarding your comments toward Greg: I don't think they are warranted. Greg is proud of his shop and obviously wishes his clients to know he is as "fully" covered as possible. Being such is a mark of distinction. Is it necessary for you or I to be as fully covered? That's a business decision for you and I to make. Now what is the value of the GL coverage? It does satisfy most clients who are quick to demand an insurance certificate. IMO it is absolutely necessary when the professional is using or handling equipment, having electric cords across the floors [tripping hazards], renting equipment, putting hands on thermostats or switches, etc, etc. etc. However if your business is only to inspect without opening doors, do some sniffing about and take a few swabs or air samples then there is little exposure to justify the GL coverage. However, if those are the only exposures then the premiums should be so low to be insignificant. The reason I don't like to see the Council publishing lists of members with coverage is such is a violation of privacy... those lists are obsolete the day following their publication, ...there are NO STANDARDS for E & O insurance therefore such a publication is giving a false sense of security to the general public... The privacy issue should be moot as that is a question for the potential customer to ask. Ken =================== American IAQCouncil's list of insured companiesI would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks aboutthe American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with"professional" or "errors & omissions" insurance.I think it is great for many good reasons:1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, doinvestigations or write remediation plans.2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yetscared marketplace.3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurancecarriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc.Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force byeconomic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that wasconcerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization'scertifications are worth the money. Our customers can see forthemselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look lookand run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and sendcopies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at thecustomer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurancecertificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great service.This is a step in the right direction for an industry that wants toself police itself rather than let states regulate.Regards,Greg WeathermanaerobioLogical Solutions Inc.__________________________________________________Alpha Environmental, Inc.Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting624 W. Saint s Dr.Media, PA 19063Phone: Fax: Cell:__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Chuck, Let's step back, take a deep breath and rethink the whole thing about insurance. The success of the Council will be their ability to sell memberships and to do that they MUST provide one or more essential services. Let's agree their involvement in the insurance game is to enhance the value of their memberships. Now let's look at your logic regarding GL vs. E & O. Here I question what you are saying. For the professional in the mold remediation or IAQ business I'd say the E & O is needed to protect against lawsuits related to certifications, protocols or designs. Yes, it will be by far the most expensive in the insurance package but it is the only insurance protecting against claims relating to the advice or decisions rendered. GL insurance covers claims primarily resulting from "accidents" resulting in property damage or bodily injury or personal injury if that coverage is also available. Unfortunately property owners usually only ask for the GL coverage and that is the easiest to procure. Regarding your comments toward Greg: I don't think they are warranted. Greg is proud of his shop and obviously wishes his clients to know he is as "fully" covered as possible. Being such is a mark of distinction. Is it necessary for you or I to be as fully covered? That's a business decision for you and I to make. Now what is the value of the GL coverage? It does satisfy most clients who are quick to demand an insurance certificate. IMO it is absolutely necessary when the professional is using or handling equipment, having electric cords across the floors [tripping hazards], renting equipment, putting hands on thermostats or switches, etc, etc. etc. However if your business is only to inspect without opening doors, do some sniffing about and take a few swabs or air samples then there is little exposure to justify the GL coverage. However, if those are the only exposures then the premiums should be so low to be insignificant. The reason I don't like to see the Council publishing lists of members with coverage is such is a violation of privacy... those lists are obsolete the day following their publication, ...there are NO STANDARDS for E & O insurance therefore such a publication is giving a false sense of security to the general public... The privacy issue should be moot as that is a question for the potential customer to ask. Ken =================== American IAQCouncil's list of insured companiesI would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks aboutthe American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with"professional" or "errors & omissions" insurance.I think it is great for many good reasons:1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, doinvestigations or write remediation plans.2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yetscared marketplace.3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurancecarriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc.Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force byeconomic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that wasconcerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization'scertifications are worth the money. Our customers can see forthemselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look lookand run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and sendcopies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at thecustomer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurancecertificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great service.This is a step in the right direction for an industry that wants toself police itself rather than let states regulate.Regards,Greg WeathermanaerobioLogical Solutions Inc.__________________________________________________Alpha Environmental, Inc.Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting624 W. Saint s Dr.Media, PA 19063Phone: Fax: Cell:__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ken,

Thanks for your comments. My response to each is as follows:

1. I can't agree that the Council's involvement in the insurance game

provides any enhancement to their membership services whatsoever.

In fact, I'm going to venture a guess that their current presentation is

harmful to the majority of their certificants, assuming that there are

more of us " small shops " out there than the bigger ones. WE, the

former members and the certificants are the meat and potatos of the

Council. Our support over the years is why they still even exist. Now

that they've got a bit of power, through their greater numbers, they're

misusing that power to cast harmful and doubtful shadows over the

smaller shops who are capable, are not idiots, are not dishonest, and

are not fly by night. I believe it's called biting the hand that feeds, or at

least fed you. And it's quite possible that it's for some type of side-door

financial benefit. If ANYONE is going to publish that kind of info, it

would more appropriately be IAQA, after approval by the BOD,

representing the membership, NOT like the Council's dictatorial

structure.

2. I understand the differences between GL & E & O, Ken. There are

other ways to structure your company and shield yourself from

liabilities. If you are honest and capable, your exposure is minimal.

Not non-existant, I grant you, but minimal. Besides, as has been

proven over and over again, HAVING insurance is one thing, having

the insurer actually pay a CLAIM, after working through their maze of

exclusions is quite another.

As an aside, the " promo " is that the insurer that the Council is

supporting claims to offer savings, of what...10% - 15% over " other "

policies. I actually shopped them for both GL and E & O, and guess

what...they did NOT provide the best rates for the coverages offered

compared to other quotes I got.

3. That's fine for Greg to be proud of his shop. I'm also very proud of

mine and of the levels of service and value that I provide to clients. I

don't have a problem with his being proud. I have a HUGE problem

with his blindly buying into the propaganda of the Council and their

insurance " partner " , and his thinly veiled attempts to further the causes

of that propaganda by making generalized, stereotypical and

disparaging statements about others who don't dance to the same tune

that Greg does. HE and the Council both have overstepped their

boundaries by doing that, and infringed upon mine. That obviously got

my Irish up, and from my perspective, with very good cause.

4. I agree with your violation of privacy statement. Following the same

line of logic, if the stance of the Council is correct, what information will

they publish next? Financial statements, credit reports, criminal

background checks?

I stand by my original statements regarding this. The Council has no

business promoting ANYTHING other than certifications. If the

unification wasn't beneficial to them financially in hindsight, that's their

problem. Don't make it ours.

Chuck Reaney, CIAQetc.

Dear Chuck,

Let's step back, take a deep breath and rethink the whole thing about

insurance.

The success of the Council will be their ability to sell memberships

and to do that they MUST provide one or more essential services.

Let's agree their involvement in the insurance game is to enhance the

value of their memberships.

Now let's look at your logic regarding GL vs. E & O.

Here I question what you are saying. For the professional in the mold

remediation or IAQ business I'd say the E & O is needed to protect

against lawsuits related to certifications, protocols or designs.

Yes, it will be by far the most expensive in the insurance package but

it is the only insurance protecting against claims relating to the

advice or decisions rendered. GL insurance covers claims primarily

resulting from " accidents " resulting in property damage or bodily

injury or personal injury if that coverage is also available.

Unfortunately property owners usually only ask for the GL coverage

and

that is the easiest to procure.

Regarding your comments toward Greg: I don't think they are

warranted. Greg is proud of his shop and obviously wishes his clients

to know he is as " fully " covered as possible. Being such is a mark of

distinction. Is it necessary for you or I to be as fully covered?

That's a business decision for you and I to make.

Now what is the value of the GL coverage? It does satisfy most

clients who are quick to demand an insurance certificate. IMO it is

absolutely necessary when the professional is using or handling

equipment, having electric cords across the floors [tripping hazards],

renting equipment, putting hands on thermostats or switches, etc,

etc. etc. However if your business is only to inspect without opening

doors, do some sniffing about and take a few swabs or air samples

then

there is little exposure to justify the GL coverage However, if those

are the only exposures then the premiums should be so low to be

insignificant.

The reason I don't like to see the Council publishing lists of members

with coverage is such is a violation of privacy... those lists are

obsolete the day following their publication, ...there are NO

STANDARDS for E & O insurance therefore such a publication is giving

a

false sense of security to the general public... The privacy issue

should be moot as that is a question for the potential customer to

ask.

Ken

===================

American IAQ Council's list of insured

companies

I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks about

the American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with

" professional " or " errors & omissions " insurance.

I think it is great for many good reasons:

1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do

investigations or write remediation plans.

2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet

scared marketplace.

3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance

carriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc.

Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by

economic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that

was concerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100

years ago.

4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's

certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for

themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look

look and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I

admit).

It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send

copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at

the customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance

certificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great

service. This is a step in the right direction for an industry that

wants to self police itself rather than let states regulate.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

__________________________________________________

Alpha Environmental, Inc.

Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting

624 W. Saint s Dr.

Media, PA 19063

Phone: Fax: Cell:

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

I did not mean to say "all" who are not covered with "professional" insurance are "fly-by-night". I apologize for make too broad of a brush stroke with my simple statements. There are always exceptions to the rule. I am more than sure you are one of those many exceptions.

I will use one person as an example: Dr. Lipsey, PhD Toxicologist (I think he has 3 PhDs to be precise). He has been testifying in court - including federal - for more than 35 years. He can pass a Daubert examination easily. He does not carry "professional" insurance because he thinks it puts a big target on his back for those who are "sue happy". His wife is an attorney and there is little to no chance he will ever be sued unless someone wants to throw money into a big, black hole. His contracts state all arguments will happen in ville FL where he and his wife are probably known to any judge in civil court. I would never say Dr. Lipsey is a "fly-by-night' consultant.

Example of another exception to the rule: A local guy (member of this chatboard) carried professional insurance for years. He decided to have an environmental attorney write a boilerplate contract to have the customer agree to complete indemnification for his services no matter what happens. This guy is good at investigations and I refer people to him if I have projects where I am the remediation company. I have had customers choose to use someone else because his contract gives no protection to the customer. I can't tell this consultant he must change his ways. It is his path to choose and no one else's. He makes a good living. I still point people his way.

Fly-by-night example: a local guy spent several years as an "independent" insurance adjuster working for his dad's company. One day, he decided there was a need for a mold tester. Low and behold, he became a M.A.S or microbial air sampler. I encountered this guy at a condominium community managed by a property management firm called Legum & Norman (EnviroBob they are in your neck of the woods also). Mr. Fly-by-night was investigating any condos with water damage claims which turned out to be most of them due to shoddy construction. Mr. Fly-by-night's dad was the "independent" insurance adjuster for the insurance company that held the master policy for the condominium community. Did Mr. Fly-by-night discover any construction defects? NO. He found problems that were the condo owner's problem and covered by the condo owner's insurance policy or worse…….surprise. In another instance, he said a problem that was in a unit should be covered by the condo association but never identified the cause (construction defect) while claiming Cladosporium is dangerous. The remediation was bungled greatly, the occupants lived with more than 2 years of misery and the HVAC was ruined. I guarantee you this guy could never get professional insurance for microbial consulting.

Financial fact of life: It cost $25,000.00 to $35,000.00 to litigate a claim in Virginia's circuit court. I will be glad to pay my insurance premium to avoid paying more than the deductible to prove I did no harm. How is $5,000.00 to $8,000.00 too much compared to the cost to defend yourself? I might do an investigation that may lead to leases getting busted for non-performance on the building owner's part with a government office renting the space. I have not had a claim or suit either but, I have been threatened until it is discovered I carry professional insurance.

The cost for the consumer is 2% to 3%. It helps to have some history of no claims – just like workmen's compensation insurance. I can't imagine why you would have trouble getting the insurance I carry. I have no connection to any insurance company or person……

Sorry for the poor choice of words,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

**************************************

> > Greg,> > And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if you read> the policy, most don't even cover the RC. What a joke.> > EnviroBob> > > > _____ > > From: iequality > [mailto:iequality ] On> Behalf Of Greg Weatherman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 > 4:59 PM> To: iequality Subject: American IAQ> Council's list of insured companies> > > > > I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks > about> the American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone > with> "professional" or "errors & omissions" insurance.> > I think it is great for many good reasons:> > 1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do> investigations or write remediation plans.> > 2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet> scared marketplace.> > 3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance> carriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc.> Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by> economic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that > was> concerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 > years ago.> > 4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's> certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for> themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look > look> and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).> > It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send> copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at > the> customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance> certificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great service.> This is a step in the right direction for an industry that wants to> self police itself rather than let states regulate.> > Regards,> > Greg Weatherman> > aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.> > > > > __________________________________________________> Alpha Environmental, Inc.> Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting> 624 W. Saint s Dr.> Media, PA 19063> Phone: Fax: Cell:> __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

EnviroBob,

My professional insurance policy covers RC or remediation cost to the

policy limit which is $2 million in my case. I have insurance through

the American IAQ Council's group plan as a CMC. I can't imagine why you

could not easily get the same. No joke here.

See you in Las Vegas,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

**************************************************

>

> Greg,

>

>

>

> And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if you read

the

> policy, most don't even cover the RC. What a joke.

>

>

>

> EnviroBob

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On

Behalf

> Of Greg Weatherman

> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:59 PM

> To: iequality

> Subject: American IAQ Council's list of insured companies

>

>

>

>

> I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks about

the

> American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with

> " professional " or " errors & omissions " insurance.

>

> I think it is great for many good reasons:

>

> 1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do

> investigations or write remediation plans.

>

> 2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet

> scared marketplace.

>

> 3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance

carriers

> look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc. Insurance

> carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by economic

> necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that was

concerned

> about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.

>

> 4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's

> certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for

> themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look look

> and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).

>

> It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send

> copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at the

> customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance

certificate,

> I would be a fool to do anything but give great service. This is a

step

> in the right direction for an industry that wants to self police

itself

> rather than let states regulate.

>

> Regards,

>

> Greg Weatherman

>

> aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

>

[Guest guest]

EnviroBob,

The cost does not impact my price by much. Except for expert witness

work, my insurance costs between 2% and 3% of my gross which is a low

percentage for professional insurance for a company that consults. You

don't even want to know what it cost 4 years ago.

Regards,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

**************************************

>

> Greg,

>

>

>

> And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if you read

the

> policy, most don't even cover the RC. What a joke.

>

>

>

> EnviroBob

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On

Behalf

> Of Greg Weatherman

> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:59 PM

> To: iequality

> Subject: American IAQ Council's list of insured companies

>

>

>

>

> I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks about

the

> American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone with

> " professional " or " errors & omissions " insurance.

>

> I think it is great for many good reasons:

>

> 1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do

> investigations or write remediation plans.

>

> 2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet

> scared marketplace.

>

> 3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance

carriers

> look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc. Insurance

> carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by economic

> necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that was

concerned

> about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 years ago.

>

> 4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's

> certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for

> themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look look

> and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit).

>

> It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send

> copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at the

> customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance

certificate,

> I would be a fool to do anything but give great service. This is a

step

> in the right direction for an industry that wants to self police

itself

> rather than let states regulate.

>

> Regards,

>

> Greg Weatherman

>

> aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

>

[Guest guest]

Ken,

There are some statements that are not exactly true in your statements. My only goal with my original posting was to stir debate and get people to focus on a powerful tool for righting the ship:

************************************************************************

> > Greg, > > And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if you read > the policy, most don't even cover the RC. What a joke. > > EnviroBob > > _____ > > From: iequality <mailto:iequality > [mailto:iequality <mailto:iequality ] On > Behalf Of Greg Weatherman Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 > 4:59 PM > To: iequality <mailto:iequality Subject: American IAQ > Council's list of insured companies > > I would like to know what the members of this chatboard thinks > about > the American IAQ Council listing companies that have someone > with > "professional" or "errors & omissions" insurance. > > I think it is great for many good reasons: > > 1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give opinions, do > investigations or write remediation plans. > > 2) It will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet > scared marketplace. > > 3) It will help standardize industry practices since insurance > carriers look at your contracts, standard operating procedures, etc. > Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and idiots are force by > economic necessity to do what is right. I just had a customer that > was > concerned about Cladosporium in a house built more than 100 > years ago. > > 4) It will put any arguments to rest about what organization's > certifications are worth the money. Our customers can see for > themselves who is open and honest versus what organizations look > look > and run like an old FIAT (an age dependent description I admit). > > It would be nice if the Council would take it another notch and send > copies of insurance certificates to customers who request them at > the > customer's expense. If I know my customer has my insurance > certificate, I would be a fool to do anything but give great service. > This is a step in the right direction for an industry that wants to > self police itself rather than let states regulate. > > Regards, > > Greg Weatherman > > aerobioLogical Solutions Inc. > > __________________________________________________ > Alpha Environmental, Inc. > Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting > 624 W. Saint s Dr. > Media, PA 19063 > Phone: Fax: Cell: > __________________________________________________>

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I apologize for taking so long to reply. Your apology accepted, and thank

you for that.

Sometimes it's tough to NOT paint various groups or segments with

broad brush strokes, and that's almost always wrong to some degree as

there are always exceptions.

While I certainly made it clear that I have " issues " with some of the

stances and policies of the AmIAQC, I also recognize that they have

made immense positive contributions to the industry over the years. I

was one of the ones ranting about the need for cooperation many years

ago, which was " resolved " by the unification, and has resulted in other

problems both for the organizations and for our industry. Growing

pains.

Before unification I was a member of the Council for quite some time.

I know it's not easy, and is usually impossible to represent all of the

various interests of any large group. I still however stand strongly by

my stated positions on the Council " pushing " insurance, whether

intentionally or " informationally " .

I share Dr. Lipsey's perspective that I will NOT paint a large target on

my forehead for sue-happy attorneys and their clients. I have my

business and my life structured so that if someone decides to sue me

they might end up, after a LOT of legal expenses, with a couple of older

vehicles, and a few thousand dollars worth of equipment. That hardly

makes it worth the effort and expense of pursuing litigation.

Does that occasionally cost me a job? Certainly. But in the long run it

doesn't matter because I'm saving one hell of a lot more than I am

missing out on, and I often don't accept projects if I get an uneasy

feeling about the clients and their demeanor. Knock wood, so far I've

been fortunate, in addition to being thorough and capable.

I realize that anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything, but any

of my clients would have a VERY difficult time proving that I was ever

negligent in any manner. That's another reason that I don't have E & O, I

basically can't afford it. I consistenly put in substantially more effort

than I am able to bill for in order to make sure that the services I provide

are significantly above and beyond the necessary minimums.

Poor business practices, yes...but very good professional practice. I

will never get wealthy doing what I do, but I also sleep well and don't

worry about not having E & O insurance.

There's more, the way my contract is set up, etc., etc., that discourages

anyone from being tempted to file nuisance litigation, etc., but I think

you get the point.

If you and others are more comfortable having the insurance than not,

that's fine with me, but like many other things in life, including religion,

politics, and AA, to name a few, I think we would all be well advised to

" advise " our colleagues, based upon our own perspectives, than to make

statements that infer that our way is the only correct way, and applies to

everyone. That's rarely, if ever the case.

Thanks again, Greg.

Chuck Reaney

Chuck,

I did not mean to say " all " who are not covered with " professional "

insurance are " fly-by-night " . I apologize for make too broad of a

brush stroke with my simple statements. There are always exceptions

to the rule. I am more than sure you are one of those many

exceptions.

I will use one person as an example: Dr. Lipsey, PhD

Toxicologist (I think he has 3 PhDs to be precise). He has been

testifying in court - including federal - for more than 35 years. He

can pass a Daubert examination easily. He does not carry

" professional " insurance because he thinks it puts a big target on his

back for those who are " sue happy " . His wife is an attorney and there

is little to no chance he will ever be sued unless someone wants to

throw money into a big, black hole. His contracts state all arguments

will happen in ville FL where he and his wife are probably

known to any judge in civil court. I would never say Dr. Lipsey is a

" fly-by-night' consultant.

Example of another exception to the rule: A local guy (member of this

chatboard) carried professional insurance for years. He decided to

have an environmental attorney write a boilerplate contract to have

the customer agree to complete indemnification for his services no

matter what happens. This guy is good at investigations and I refer

people to him if I have projects where I am the remediation company.

I have had customers choose to use someone else because his contract

gives no protection to the customer. I can't tell this consultant he

must change his ways. It is his path to choose and no one else's. He

makes a good living. I still point people his way.

Fly-by-night example: a local guy spent several years as an

" independent " insurance adjuster working for his dad's

company. One day, he decided there was a need for a mold tester. Low

and behold, he became a M.A.S or microbial air sampler. I encountered

this guy at a condominium community managed by a property

management

firm called Legum & Norman (EnviroBob they are in your neck of the

woods also). Mr. Fly-by-night was investigating any condos with

water damage claims which turned out to be most of them due to shoddy

construction. Mr. Fly-by-night's dad was the " independent " insurance

adjuster for the insurance company that held the master policy for the

condominium community. Did Mr. Fly-by-night discover any construction

defects? NO. He found problems that were the condo owner's problem

and covered by the condo owner's insurance policy or

worse…….surprise.

In another instance, he said a problem that was in a unit should be

covered by the condo association but never identified the cause

(construction defect) while claiming Cladosporium is dangerous. The

remediation was bungled greatly, the occupants lived with more than 2

years of misery and the HVAC was ruined. I guarantee you this guy

could never get professional insurance for microbial consulting.

Financial fact of life: It cost $25,000.00 to $35,000.00 to litigate

a claim in Virginia's circuit court. I will be glad to pay my

insurance premium to avoid paying more than the deductible to prove I

did no harm. How is $5,000.00 to $8,000.00 too much compared to the

cost to defend yourself? I might do an investigation that may lead to

leases getting busted for non-performance on the building owner's part

with a government office renting the space. I have not had a claim or

suit either but, I have been threatened until it is discovered I carry

professional insurance.

The cost for the consumer is 2% to 3%. It helps to have some history

of no claims – just like workmen's compensation insurance. I can't

imagine why you would have trouble getting the insurance I carry. I

have no connection to any insurance company or person……

Sorry for the poor choice of words,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

**************************************

> >

Greg, > > And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if

you read > the policy, most don't even cover the RC. What a joke. > >

EnviroBob > > > > _____ > > From: iequality >

[mailto:iequality ] On > Behalf Of Greg Weatherman

Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 > 4:59 PM > To:

iequality Subject: American IAQ >

Council's list of insured companies > > > > > I would like to know

what the members of this chatboard thinks > about > the American IAQ

Council listing companies that have someone > with > " professional " or

" errors & omissions " insurance. > > I think it is great for many good

reasons: > > 1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give

opinions, do > investigations or write remediation plans. > > 2) It

will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet > scared

marketplace. > > 3) It will help standardize industry practices since

insurance > carriers look at your contracts, standard operating

procedures, etc. > Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and

idiots are force by > economic necessity to do what is right. I just

had a customer that > was > concerned about Cladosporium in a house

built more than 100 > years ago. > > 4) It will put any arguments to

rest about what organization's > certifications are worth the money.

Our customers can see for > themselves who is open and honest versus

what organizations look > look > and run like an old FIAT (an age

dependent description I admit). > > It would be nice if the Council

would take it another notch and send > copies of insurance

certificates to customers who request them at > the > customer's

expense. If I know my customer has my insurance > certificate, I would

be a fool to do anything but give great service. > This is a step in

the right direction for an industry that wants to > self police itself

rather than let states regulate. > > Regards, > > Greg Weatherman > >

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc. > > > > >

__________________________________________________ > Alpha

Environmental, Inc. > Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting >

624 W. Saint s Dr. > Media, PA 19063 > Phone:

Fax: Cell: >

__________________________________________________ >

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I apologize for taking so long to reply. Your apology accepted, and thank

you for that.

Sometimes it's tough to NOT paint various groups or segments with

broad brush strokes, and that's almost always wrong to some degree as

there are always exceptions.

While I certainly made it clear that I have " issues " with some of the

stances and policies of the AmIAQC, I also recognize that they have

made immense positive contributions to the industry over the years. I

was one of the ones ranting about the need for cooperation many years

ago, which was " resolved " by the unification, and has resulted in other

problems both for the organizations and for our industry. Growing

pains.

Before unification I was a member of the Council for quite some time.

I know it's not easy, and is usually impossible to represent all of the

various interests of any large group. I still however stand strongly by

my stated positions on the Council " pushing " insurance, whether

intentionally or " informationally " .

I share Dr. Lipsey's perspective that I will NOT paint a large target on

my forehead for sue-happy attorneys and their clients. I have my

business and my life structured so that if someone decides to sue me

they might end up, after a LOT of legal expenses, with a couple of older

vehicles, and a few thousand dollars worth of equipment. That hardly

makes it worth the effort and expense of pursuing litigation.

Does that occasionally cost me a job? Certainly. But in the long run it

doesn't matter because I'm saving one hell of a lot more than I am

missing out on, and I often don't accept projects if I get an uneasy

feeling about the clients and their demeanor. Knock wood, so far I've

been fortunate, in addition to being thorough and capable.

I realize that anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything, but any

of my clients would have a VERY difficult time proving that I was ever

negligent in any manner. That's another reason that I don't have E & O, I

basically can't afford it. I consistenly put in substantially more effort

than I am able to bill for in order to make sure that the services I provide

are significantly above and beyond the necessary minimums.

Poor business practices, yes...but very good professional practice. I

will never get wealthy doing what I do, but I also sleep well and don't

worry about not having E & O insurance.

There's more, the way my contract is set up, etc., etc., that discourages

anyone from being tempted to file nuisance litigation, etc., but I think

you get the point.

If you and others are more comfortable having the insurance than not,

that's fine with me, but like many other things in life, including religion,

politics, and AA, to name a few, I think we would all be well advised to

" advise " our colleagues, based upon our own perspectives, than to make

statements that infer that our way is the only correct way, and applies to

everyone. That's rarely, if ever the case.

Thanks again, Greg.

Chuck Reaney

Chuck,

I did not mean to say " all " who are not covered with " professional "

insurance are " fly-by-night " . I apologize for make too broad of a

brush stroke with my simple statements. There are always exceptions

to the rule. I am more than sure you are one of those many

exceptions.

I will use one person as an example: Dr. Lipsey, PhD

Toxicologist (I think he has 3 PhDs to be precise). He has been

testifying in court - including federal - for more than 35 years. He

can pass a Daubert examination easily. He does not carry

" professional " insurance because he thinks it puts a big target on his

back for those who are " sue happy " . His wife is an attorney and there

is little to no chance he will ever be sued unless someone wants to

throw money into a big, black hole. His contracts state all arguments

will happen in ville FL where he and his wife are probably

known to any judge in civil court. I would never say Dr. Lipsey is a

" fly-by-night' consultant.

Example of another exception to the rule: A local guy (member of this

chatboard) carried professional insurance for years. He decided to

have an environmental attorney write a boilerplate contract to have

the customer agree to complete indemnification for his services no

matter what happens. This guy is good at investigations and I refer

people to him if I have projects where I am the remediation company.

I have had customers choose to use someone else because his contract

gives no protection to the customer. I can't tell this consultant he

must change his ways. It is his path to choose and no one else's. He

makes a good living. I still point people his way.

Fly-by-night example: a local guy spent several years as an

" independent " insurance adjuster working for his dad's

company. One day, he decided there was a need for a mold tester. Low

and behold, he became a M.A.S or microbial air sampler. I encountered

this guy at a condominium community managed by a property

management

firm called Legum & Norman (EnviroBob they are in your neck of the

woods also). Mr. Fly-by-night was investigating any condos with

water damage claims which turned out to be most of them due to shoddy

construction. Mr. Fly-by-night's dad was the " independent " insurance

adjuster for the insurance company that held the master policy for the

condominium community. Did Mr. Fly-by-night discover any construction

defects? NO. He found problems that were the condo owner's problem

and covered by the condo owner's insurance policy or

worse…….surprise.

In another instance, he said a problem that was in a unit should be

covered by the condo association but never identified the cause

(construction defect) while claiming Cladosporium is dangerous. The

remediation was bungled greatly, the occupants lived with more than 2

years of misery and the HVAC was ruined. I guarantee you this guy

could never get professional insurance for microbial consulting.

Financial fact of life: It cost $25,000.00 to $35,000.00 to litigate

a claim in Virginia's circuit court. I will be glad to pay my

insurance premium to avoid paying more than the deductible to prove I

did no harm. How is $5,000.00 to $8,000.00 too much compared to the

cost to defend yourself? I might do an investigation that may lead to

leases getting busted for non-performance on the building owner's part

with a government office renting the space. I have not had a claim or

suit either but, I have been threatened until it is discovered I carry

professional insurance.

The cost for the consumer is 2% to 3%. It helps to have some history

of no claims – just like workmen's compensation insurance. I can't

imagine why you would have trouble getting the insurance I carry. I

have no connection to any insurance company or person……

Sorry for the poor choice of words,

Greg Weatherman

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc.

Arlington VA 22202

**************************************

> >

Greg, > > And will force the cost of remediation even higher. And if

you read > the policy, most don't even cover the RC. What a joke. > >

EnviroBob > > > > _____ > > From: iequality >

[mailto:iequality ] On > Behalf Of Greg Weatherman

Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 > 4:59 PM > To:

iequality Subject: American IAQ >

Council's list of insured companies > > > > > I would like to know

what the members of this chatboard thinks > about > the American IAQ

Council listing companies that have someone > with > " professional " or

" errors & omissions " insurance. > > I think it is great for many good

reasons: > > 1) Customers will know who is insured to test, give

opinions, do > investigations or write remediation plans. > > 2) It

will expose fly-by-night types who prey on the ignorant yet > scared

marketplace. > > 3) It will help standardize industry practices since

insurance > carriers look at your contracts, standard operating

procedures, etc. > Insurance carriers deny coverage to idiots and

idiots are force by > economic necessity to do what is right. I just

had a customer that > was > concerned about Cladosporium in a house

built more than 100 > years ago. > > 4) It will put any arguments to

rest about what organization's > certifications are worth the money.

Our customers can see for > themselves who is open and honest versus

what organizations look > look > and run like an old FIAT (an age

dependent description I admit). > > It would be nice if the Council

would take it another notch and send > copies of insurance

certificates to customers who request them at > the > customer's

expense. If I know my customer has my insurance > certificate, I would

be a fool to do anything but give great service. > This is a step in

the right direction for an industry that wants to > self police itself

rather than let states regulate. > > Regards, > > Greg Weatherman > >

aerobioLogical Solutions Inc. > > > > >

__________________________________________________ > Alpha

Environmental, Inc. > Indoor Air Quality & Environmental Consulting >

624 W. Saint s Dr. > Media, PA 19063 > Phone:

Fax: Cell: >

__________________________________________________ >