Re: Tongue scrapers and taste

[Guest guest]

> I used a tongue scraper for the first time this morning without any

> dramatically visible success (I tend to have a certain amount of

white crap

> on my tongue, particularly in the middle and towards the back, where

it's

> thicker and tattery and looks kind of like dead tongue skin cells that

> haven't quite let go yet) but now the front of my tongue feels sort

of numb

> and raw, and my sense of taste has been off all day.

,

Just scrape the back part, where the ook is, don't wanna chafe yourself.

BTW what do you call success? Did you end up with a load of goo on

the scraper? That's success. Scrape about 20 times, but not where your

tongue is pink.

I'm curious about the thick and tattery description. While

(surprisingly) I've never seen one live, candida shows up as

white--and blackish, too--hairy, " threads " on the back of the tongue.

Giardiasis OTOH appears as tiny cauliflower-like florets on the back

of the tongue with optional spots of " shaved " papillae.

The white junk is just your run-of-the-mill toxic food waste from poor

digestion/assimilation, but that wouldn't fall under " thick and

tattery " really.

B.

[Guest guest]

> Huh, that latter description sounds alarmingly like me. Any pictorial

> references you can point me to? Or shall I email you a picture of

the back

> of my tongue?

,

I was in a seminar with 50 people and six of them had the giardiasis

tongue--I was shocked. Not one showed candida. Four of the six had

been previously treated for giardia and were under the impression they

were cured.

I can look for a pic but I'm not optimistic about locating one. Feel

free to send me one (or post to the files!)Do you have the shaved

papillae, too?

B.

[Guest guest]

> I don't have the foggiest idea what shaved papillae would look like, so

> your guess is as good as mine.

,

little rings on the tongue. Sorta like, well, ringworm...yeah, that's it.

B.

[Guest guest]

,

Fascinating Google search over here:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap22.html

" About 40% of those who are diagnosed with giardiasis demonstrate

disaccharide intolerance during detectable infection and up to 6

months after the infection can no longer be detected. Lactose (i.e.,

milk sugar) intolerance is most frequently observed. Some individuals

(less than 4%) remain symptomatic more than 2 weeks; chronic

infections lead to a malabsorption syndrome... "

Other sites describe it causing chronic digestive troubles in the

upper intestine, and people with hypochloridia, of course, are highly

susceptible.

We may have a hit!

Most sites I've read so far claim it runs its course in 4-6 weeks but

the people I met in this seminar had apparently been infected for

years. I have since seen several tongues with the signs. It seems

much more common than I ever would have guessed.

B.

/oh, oh, oh--read this:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_2_8/ai_103194437

[Guest guest]

> Yeah, giardia would explain a lot, and obviously there was plenty of

time

> for me to get infected once my stomach acid production was

demolished and

> before I figured out what was going on and started taking

supplements. For

> that matter, I could've gotten infected afterwards.

,

While cyber-stalking you on another subject, I read an account of a

nine-day bout of food-poisoning? Since giardia infections run 7-10

days, might that have been the insult?

It would be helpful to

> have laboratory confirmation, though...

" Giardia lamblia was first described in 1681 after Dutch microscopist

Antonie van Leeuwenhoek observed the protozoan in one of his own

diarrheic stools: '... wherein I have sometimes also seen animalcules

a-moving very prettily ... albeit they made a quick motion with their

paws, yet for all that they made but slow progress.' "

See anything like that? In the home laboratory?

From what I've read, the standard tests seem very sketchy, done in

cycles and rife with false negatives. Also, four people I met in the

seminar with it had all been pronounced cured by their doctors.

> Any suggestions other than the usual (Schulze's formula, ia and

the

> like, Schmid's wormwood formula, grapefruit seed extract) for attacking

> what might be a long-term chronic infection?

Well, I'm liking the link I gave you earlier, but they say to go

low-fat as it thrives on the bile salts in a high-fat diet, and

recommend wheat germ--of all things--to agglutinate and otherwise mess

up the little farkers. Maybe you could work with it somehow anyway?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_2_8/ai_103194437

But I will certainly make some inquiries...

B.

[Guest guest]

Ghislaine,

> When I read this I just had to check out my own tongue. I don't

> really ever remember it being really pink!

> I'm thinking I've got the giardiasis tongue. I've got

> cauliflowerishness at the back and spots of pink that I've always

> thought of as swollen taste buds but who knows. And the white stuff

> that scraped off pretty easily with my finger nail has a definite

> yellowish tinge to it. Not sure what significance that might have.

White-or-otherwise-coated tongue indicates toxins in the GI tract.

Re: giardiasis, I don't know how to confirm your suspicion without

coming up for potential criticism; I can't find any tongue diagnosis

photos on the web and am thinking to make a page myself, heh, but I've

got no skillz. That said, the giardia signs are very specific and

can't be confused with anything else, problem is, you have no

comparison. You can go to a doctor of some sort and get three stool

samples taken over six weeks for an accuracy of > 90%.

Yellow tinge means toxins in the liver. That goes for tongue-coatings,

sclera, skin.

<insert recommendation for copious enemas here...>

I keed, I keed.

> I'm a bit concerned about what's been talked about as the treatment in

> here. I'm part of a group that recreates medieval eras. One of the

> medieval ingredients that's on the banned list these days is wormwood

> because it's an abortifacient. I've always assumed that would mean it

> is a poison if taken in some large quantity. Makes sense that it

> would kill the giardia protozoan but what other side effects might it

> have?

It's an abortive, all right, but that means it induces abortion, not

kills the host. If you aren't pregnant, it wouldn't be problematic,

though as an emmenagogue, it could induce menstruation. Side effects:

liver cleansing and toning.

The article I submitted is very informative and doesn't use wormwood

or other harsh tinctures.

Did you rtfa? Did anybody?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_2_8/ai_103194437

B.

[Guest guest]

> Speaking of which, my tongue has changed dramatically. Before there

was

> this sort of tattery stuff that looked like dead skin, mainly along the

> center and particularly towards the back. Now there are lots of

what look

> like inflamed whitish taste buds and towards the back several enormous

> white growths that definitely look like cauliflower, though they're

hard to

> make out. This change has occurred in tandem with my consumption of

> Schulze's tincture, FWIW.

,

Eww, you're gross. It sounds like die-off to me. That or just dying,

one.

B.

[Guest guest]

> Speaking of which, my tongue has changed dramatically. Before there

was

> this sort of tattery stuff that looked like dead skin, mainly along the

> center and particularly towards the back. Now there are lots of

what look

> like inflamed whitish taste buds and towards the back several enormous

> white growths that definitely look like cauliflower, though they're

hard to

> make out. This change has occurred in tandem with my consumption of

> Schulze's tincture, FWIW.

,

Here's something that could matter:

the back of the tongue corresponds with the colon, so whatever is

going on there reflects the state of the colon. Meaning, looks like

there's a giardia war going on down there right now. A fight to the

death! Thunderdome in your pants!

More towards the center from there is the small intestine. In front of

that is the stomach. But now I'm just talking crazy.

B.

[Guest guest]

But ,

> Yeah, but it advocates a virtual elimination of fat from the diet (not

> possible for me) and heavy use of wheat germ (also not possible for

me). I

> am using rhamnosus, though, and I'm about to experiment with arginine

> (after a little glutamine).

That was therapeutically! I would never expect you to give up your

beloved fat--nor do I even know that the proposed therapy even

works--I just thought it was rather informative about the condition

and it may be that your high-fat diet is contributing to your

*alleged* giardia condition. Oh the irony! And Satan's grain

harnessed to kill the invaders!

There's no way you might consider eating low-fat for, like, two weeks

to ease this up? Then bring the purge!

B.

[Guest guest]

> Yeah, but it advocates a virtual elimination of fat from the diet (not

> possible for me)

,

Just to be clear, it does not advocate a virtual elimination of fat

from the diet:

" Reducing the intake of fat might reduce nausea, steatorrhoea, and

diarrhea often associated with giardiasis. Dietary fat is also the

main stimulator for the release of bile acids into the intestinal

lumen, (58) which Giardia trophozoites depend on for survival in the

small bowel. "

and from the paragraph above that:

" The main aims of dietary modification in giardiasis should be to

reduce the acute symptomatology, promote host defense mechanisms, and

inhibit growth and replication of Giardia trophozoites. These aims can

be achieved by consuming a whole-food, high-fiber, low

simple-carbohydrate, low-fat diet. "

and that is all they say about fat-reduction--that I could find--and

they are speaking in terms of treatment, not lifestyle, so please

don't spread panic on the list. Hey, what if you switched out to

vco/coconut cream for the duration? CO doesn't require bile acids

IIRC...Chris?

B.

[Guest guest]

> Now I know not to check these things until later in the day. While I

> was brushing my teeth that morning I also used the brush on my tongue

> since I have no tongue scraper. The yellow is all gone as is a lot of

> the cauliflowerness. Maybe my tongue was just skanky and I need to

> keep up on brushing my tongue. It's still got a lot of white along

> with what I've always thought of as the swollen taste buds. They are

> all along the sides so that my tongue has a kinda snake skin look to

> it, but pink! *laughs*

>

> I usually read from work, so I hadn't had a chance to RTFA, sorry.

> I'll read the article and consider a week or two of just eating my

> fave veggie soup with the chicken from making the stock from it.

> *scratches head trying to figure out how to make the chicken tasty

> without dribbling fatty goodness all over it*

>

> Good to know about wormwood. And I need to look into enemas too.

Ghislaine,

You can use a spoon, upside-down like, to scrape the tongue. You

definitely want to scrape it, not just brush it, if you have the

coating. Glad to hear it cleaned up nicely! It's actually best to

look at/scrape first thing in the morning. Then drink some hot water

with lemon, and drink hot water throughout the day. The yellow could

have been transitory, or maybe you ate some curry or something? Or

maybe just skank...

Now, as for the sides of the tongue looking like snakeskin (freaky!)

does it look like teeth/chew marks on the sides? Like imprints from

your molars?

Do you have intestinal symptoms? Diarrhea/distress? Steattorhea?

Prithee don't go trimming the the fat prematurely, now.

B.