Re: Any difference between vegan activists & right-to-lifers?

[Guest guest]

<snip>

It's really hard these days to

>keep politics out of natural science!

>By the way, it was *shocking* to see the processed crap these 8-9 year-olds

>brought to eat for lunch!!! Beyond SAD...

>~Robin Ann "

We're in the midst of moving, and took our kids out to eat recently. Off the

kids' menu, we ordered a baked chicken breast (avoiding the gluten) and asked

for the side dish of fresh carrots/celery instead of the french fries. We were

getting a bit frustrated when they still hadn't brought out our food after 45

minutes of waiting. Finally, the waitress returns to our table and admits that

the kitchen didn't have any of the fresh vegetables on hand (they had spent the

last 30 minutes searching the kitchen for them). I asked her if we were the

first people to order them that day, and she said she had never had anybody

order them instead of the fries ! And society wonders why children today are

having difficulty with their health and their learning ability !

Rebekah, who still eats vegetables, but not at restaurants ;(

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

<snip>

It's really hard these days to

>keep politics out of natural science!

>By the way, it was *shocking* to see the processed crap these 8-9 year-olds

>brought to eat for lunch!!! Beyond SAD...

>~Robin Ann "

We're in the midst of moving, and took our kids out to eat recently. Off the

kids' menu, we ordered a baked chicken breast (avoiding the gluten) and asked

for the side dish of fresh carrots/celery instead of the french fries. We were

getting a bit frustrated when they still hadn't brought out our food after 45

minutes of waiting. Finally, the waitress returns to our table and admits that

the kitchen didn't have any of the fresh vegetables on hand (they had spent the

last 30 minutes searching the kitchen for them). I asked her if we were the

first people to order them that day, and she said she had never had anybody

order them instead of the fries ! And society wonders why children today are

having difficulty with their health and their learning ability !

Rebekah, who still eats vegetables, but not at restaurants ;(

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

> [sharon] I'm still a recovering animal rights person

> - it leaks out at times when I feel all woosie and wimpie over

> seeing " who " we'll be having for dinner. For me, the road from

> almost-Peta to lovin'-my-meat was a spiritual one. I had it all

> messed up, worshipping creation over the Creator. When that fell

> into place, my thinking

> got turned around and straightened out..

I think many of us here have gone through the various modes of

eating. I'm pretty sure that I've tried them all :-) It wasn't but a

year and a half ago that I was " cooking " with my excalibur

dehydrator ala raw foodism..

The only problem with virtually every food-style or diet I've tried

was that I simply failed to thrive.

In fact, I got sicker. To put it in a spiritual context I guess you

could say that by doing our best to heal and put our best bodies

forward, we are honoring God's work. To compromise our health, even

to fight a perceived nobler cause like protecting farm animals' from

being eaten, we are disrespecting God.

~Robin Ann

[Guest guest]

<snip>

> To put it in a spiritual context I guess you

> could say that by doing our best to heal and put our best bodies

> forward, we are honoring God's work. To compromise our health, even

> to fight a perceived nobler cause like protecting farm animals'

from

> being eaten, we are disrespecting God.

>

> ~Robin Ann

Hello again:

Even though I don't have a distinct religious belief, I can relate to

this you are saying. In other words, I agree that we do have an

obligation to be healthy or at least to try to be. That's what our

bodies ask of us. On the other hand, and this may sound like a

paradox, being ill now and then can have a function as well. You

know, getting a cold, or an aching belly, or something as light as

that, not very serious, are like short messages or reminders, telling

that even your body has its own limitations, that we often make

mistakes. Essentially, we're frail, aren't we? We aren't made of

steel, are we? That said, I don't much like those persons who sort of

boast of never being ill. I'm afraid they don't know the real value

of health. Being ill now and then may actually help to give you that

knowledge. This is what I think.

José

[Guest guest]

--- In , Rebekah Dowd <rmd1019@y...>

wrote:

>

> <snip>

>

> It's really hard these days to

> >keep politics out of natural science!

> >By the way, it was *shocking* to see the processed crap these 8-9

year-olds

>

> >brought to eat for lunch!!! Beyond SAD...

> >~Robin Ann "

>

>

> We're in the midst of moving, and took our kids out to eat

recently. Off the kids' menu, we ordered a baked chicken breast

(avoiding the gluten) and asked for the side dish of fresh

carrots/celery instead of the french fries. We were getting a bit

frustrated when they still hadn't brought out our food after 45

minutes of waiting. Finally, the waitress returns to our table and

admits that the kitchen didn't have any of the fresh vegetables on

hand (they had spent the last 30 minutes searching the kitchen for

them). I asked her if we were the first people to order them that

day, and she said she had never had anybody order them instead of the

fries ! And society wonders why children today are having difficulty

with their health and their learning ability !

>

>

>

> Rebekah, who still eats vegetables, but not at restaurants ;(

Rebekah:

I hope you can go on eating vegetables for a very long time to come!

Indeed, I found your account rather unusual. How dare a place call

itself a restaurant if it has no vegetables to serve? Unless it was a

fast food restaurant. But even fast food restaurants nowadays serve

the commonplace lettuce or cucumber, you know.

During our trip in the country, we often had lunch and dinner in

restaurants. Fortunately we never went to a place where they lacked

veggies. Okras, carrots, lettuce, cabbage - at least one sort of

vegetable could be ordered. Rather than searching the kitchen in

vain, wasn't there any supermarket near your restaurant where they

could have gone to get in no time the veggies you had ordered? I

think they have forgotten the old precept: Keep the customer

satisfied.

Well, even if we were lucky always to find veggies, it doesn't mean

that the food was always excellent. By no measure. Eating out is more

often than not a disappointing experience. You often pay too much

money for poorly prepared food and discourteous service. Home nearly

always is the best eating place there is.

Cheers,

JC

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Start your day with - make it your home page

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> We're in the midst of moving, and took our kids out to eat

recently. Off the kids' menu, we ordered a baked chicken breast

(avoiding the gluten) and asked for the side dish of fresh

carrots/celery instead of the french fries. We were getting a bit

frustrated when they still hadn't brought out our food after 45

minutes of waiting. Finally, the waitress returns to our table and

admits that the kitchen didn't have any of the fresh vegetables on

hand (they had spent the last 30 minutes searching the kitchen for

them). I asked her if we were the first people to order them that

day, and she said she had never had anybody order them instead of the

fries ! And society wonders why children today are having difficulty

with their health and their learning ability !

>

>

>

> Rebekah, who still eats vegetables, but not at restaurants ;(

Rebekah:

I hope you can go on eating vegetables for a very long time to come!

Indeed, I found your account rather unusual. How dare a place call

itself a restaurant if it has no vegetables to serve? Unless it was a

fast food restaurant. But even fast food restaurants nowadays serve

the commonplace lettuce or cucumber, you know. <snip>

JC

>

It wasn't a fast food restaurant, it was a franchise that serves sit-down meals

for lunch and dinner. The adult menu included options like salads and steamed

vegetables for side dishes. But the only option on the children's menu was

french fries or the carrots/celery for a side dish. I found it both amazing and

sad that we were the only ones who inquired about the vegetables for our kids.

Rebekah

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[Guest guest]

Robin Ann,

>

>Deanna, When I said " legislation " I guess I was only thinking of

>making blanket rules that stop the production of certain foods

>because they are objectionable to a lot of people.

>

>I mean they made a state law here (in a very short time!) to ban foi

>gras while things like aspartame are on the market for years --

>maybe forever --because aspartame has a huge lobby behind it. What

>lobby represented duck livers? How organized are meat eaters going

>to be :-) especially to a cost-prohibitive food like foi gras? Most

>people have never even tasted it... I just think there are shades to

>all these food-production issues and when you come in with a law

>that makes it illegal to make a food in any way, that seems a bit

>intense and absurd. Maybe someone comes up with a more humane way to

>make it?

>

>

Well, the food industry may try to ban all fresh, real foods one of

these days, for all we know. But otoh, high energy costs will make all

but locally grown whole foods ungodly expensive in short order. Already

sashimi grade tuna that I get from the market has doubled in price. But

it is really good quality stuff that I buy on occasion.

I think the crux of the matter is that you live in California. (

, did you know that my native state is known as the land of fruits

and nuts? - in the derogatory sense, lol) CA has always had stricter

environmental laws. Now that it has become a veg/vegan mecca, I guess I

am not surprised about food laws. However, did you also know that many

countries ban the force feeding of geese for foie gras? The UK,

Netherlands, Germany, Ireland, Italy and Israel, to name a few. So it

is not just a wacky CA thing.

Maybe ya ought to come to Texas, the only state in the nation that

slaughters horses for export food to France. The air is cleaner than

the Bay area ime, unless you are in Houston or Dallas. But then there's

no Pacific Ocean, waaaah!

>Regardless, as we all know, there are scores of other abuses having

>to do with treatment of farm animals. Just because " 30 chickens have

>their beaks cut off and look like they were in a concentration camp "

>might lead a group of activists to condemn the eating of eggs for

>example...

>

>

Yes there are serious animal abuses. And it does not follow that all

animals suffer. It is possible to eliminate the suffering without

eliminating the animal food products. I think this might be a common

ground for vegetarians and WAPFers. The vegan model is idealistic and

unattainable, so there is no use working with most vegans, who do want

to outlaw animal foods.

>I don't necessarily think the making of foi gras is a good thing I

>just have a hard time with legislation to stop production of a

>certain food. As I said, a chemical or supplement that has caused

>harm is another story as are the other important concerns you

>mention.

>

Now, I really don't have enough knowledge about goose rearing practices

to know one way or the other about how humane or not force feeding is.

However, many food production realities in the US are disgusting. I

don't want to eat factory farmed meat as it comes from suffering and is

not at all healthy fare. And at restaurants, I often do order

vegetarian. The rest of my meat comes from one local farm where I can

visit anytime, and where I hear stories like how my cow jumped the fence

so my order is going to be late. It is very important to me to know

exactly where my food comes from, and how it lived. A stressed out

suffering beast raised in crowded factory conditions - even if it is

pastured and organic - does not provide the nutrition that relaxed

animals raised on smaller farms do.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

I changed the subject heading about vegan activists = right-to-lifers

because I think the term " right-to-lifers " sounds a bit pejorative and

isn't fair. It's too broad. It's important to be able to make a

distinction between people who feel inside that it is morally wrong to

do a certain thing but allow others to choose their own way versus

people who perform disruptive acts based on those same private

feelings..

I think " vegan activists " is okay and conveys the sense that these

people act disruptively on their beliefs about food but I was

wondering.. what would be a good term to use for people who disrupt

clinics or doctors that perform abortions? Maybe " right-to-life

activists " ? Does that convey the sense here without offending anyone?

By the way, this topic moved over to " Obstacles to meat/dairy

production "

Thanks!

~Robin Ann