Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Tetanus is an anaerobic bacteria. The rusty nail deal came from the fact that dirty puncture wounds are where tetanus can easily strike because the air is kept out. Tetanus is associated w/ horse manure especially. Clean wounds well, and keep them open to drain and that will do well to prevent it. Not from milk… www.majestyfarm.com Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. From: RawDairy [mailto:RawDairy ] On Behalf Of chicsingr2 Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:29 AM To: RawDairy Subject: Re: tetanus from milk? Yes, everything I am finding mentions nothing about contracting it through food, only through wounds. Believe me, if it could be gotten through food, these websites would say so. D. moderator > > Doesm't tetanus have to enter the bloodstream directly? Like > stepping on a rusty nail? I thought it was a bloodstream thing > and that it could not survive if ingested in the digestive tract. > Not many bacteria can withstand stomach acids and the billions > of good bacteria we have in our system. > > Raw milk also protects against foreign invaders like that, esp. > foreign bacteria. It has all kinds of enzymes and peptides > designed to weed out bad bacteria. Since Tetanus is a > bacteria, I bet we're covered there. Raw milk has it's own > immine system. > > I also think that the placenta is a very protective organ. I really > believe it works as a boundary between baby and mom. I got > bronchitis when I was pregnant, took antibiotics and everything > and the babe was fine. (This was pre-raw milk and pre-Weston > Price Foundation). > > Anyway, I will look some more, but I think you can reassure > her that chances are really good that she and the baby are > fine. > D. > moderator > > > > >I have tried to search the database, and have come up empty-handed, so > > > I am hoping someone out there will be able to answer this. I have a > > > friend who is pregnant and drinking raw milk. The cow that was > > > providing her milk was diagnosed with tetanus, and will not live. As > > > she has already just consumed some of the milk from that cow...what are > > > her risks or the babie's risk to getting tetanus? (She has not had a > > > tetanus shot) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2007 Report Share Posted September 1, 2007 Tetanus is caused by an anearobic bacteria and is treatable if caught early enough. I don't think you could get it from the milk but maybe you would be best to talk to a vet? I googled tetanus merck manual and there is piles of info about how it is contracted etc and nothing mentions milk. Debbie Chikousky Manitoba, Canada gdchik@... tetanus from milk? >I have tried to search the database, and have come up empty-handed, so > I am hoping someone out there will be able to answer this. I have a > friend who is pregnant and drinking raw milk. The cow that was > providing her milk was diagnosed with tetanus, and will not live. As > she has already just consumed some of the milk from that cow...what are > her risks or the babie's risk to getting tetanus? (She has not had a > tetanus shot) > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Doesm't tetanus have to enter the bloodstream directly? Like stepping on a rusty nail? I thought it was a bloodstream thing and that it could not survive if ingested in the digestive tract. Not many bacteria can withstand stomach acids and the billions of good bacteria we have in our system. Raw milk also protects against foreign invaders like that, esp. foreign bacteria. It has all kinds of enzymes and peptides designed to weed out bad bacteria. Since Tetanus is a bacteria, I bet we're covered there. Raw milk has it's own immine system. I also think that the placenta is a very protective organ. I really believe it works as a boundary between baby and mom. I got bronchitis when I was pregnant, took antibiotics and everything and the babe was fine. (This was pre-raw milk and pre-Weston Price Foundation). Anyway, I will look some more, but I think you can reassure her that chances are really good that she and the baby are fine. D. moderator > > Tetanus is caused by an anearobic bacteria and is treatable if caught early > enough. I don't think you could get it from the milk but maybe you would be > best to talk to a vet? I googled tetanus merck manual and there is piles of > info about how it is contracted etc and nothing mentions milk. > Debbie Chikousky > Manitoba, Canada > gdchik@... > tetanus from milk? > > > >I have tried to search the database, and have come up empty-handed, so > > I am hoping someone out there will be able to answer this. I have a > > friend who is pregnant and drinking raw milk. The cow that was > > providing her milk was diagnosed with tetanus, and will not live. As > > she has already just consumed some of the milk from that cow...what are > > her risks or the babie's risk to getting tetanus? (She has not had a > > tetanus shot) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Whenever I have been around any animal with tetanus I was always cautioned to wear gloves and wash up well as the neurotoxin and the bacteria that produces it are being secreted in all the body fluids of the affected animal. If a mare gets it her foal is bottle raised because of this risk. Clostridium bacteria are naturally in the dirt just about the world over, but you are exposed in very small doses. When an animal has tetanus the exposure is HUGE so your immune system can be overwhelmed. I have seen animals die of tetanus and it's awful to watch- they smother to death in the end. Was the cow symptomatic when milk was harvested? Certainly if she was then risk is much higher. But, surely no one is dumb enough to milk a sick cow and use it? I have never seen a person die of tetanus, but it happens quite often in countries were medical care is nonexistant. Stats on India, Pakistan, China, show it's a killer. Sad because a vaccine would totally prevent that from happening. It used to kill a lot of women as a result of childbirth, too. I knew (he has since passed away) of a person who had actually survived tetanus as a child. He was born early enough that he missed the vaccine, but antibiotics had just become available so was saved. Another child in hospital at same time as he was died. Knew another fellow whose father was the local doctor and he had seen several people die of tetanus. If they could find the actual entry site wound and clean it out really good then you might survive. His discription of life prior to antibiotics and vaccines left little desire upon my part for that time. I keep my tetanus vaccination current due to being so exposed on the farm. I don't want to have to worry about it. Most animals, especially horses, shed clostridium in gut so it's everywhere on a farm. I get the vaccine with whooping cough in it, too, so I don't have to worry about getting that either. Had a family friend who got whooping cough and her baby nearly died from it. While it won't kill an adult too easily, it sure will kill an infant. Cattle rarely get tetanus due to their being slow to heal over. Horses, goats and cats get it quite often because they do heal so fast. Tetanus thrives in the absence of oxygen so likes a wound that is deep and heals over fast. If it were me, I would be talking to the doctors and figuring it out really fast. I don't know about humans, but horses have this interesting phenomenon (and I have seen a case first hand of it so I know!) where the mare can be injured and NOT get tetanus, but the foal can then be born affected. Had a neighbor loose a foal this way. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > I have tried to search the database, and have come up empty-handed, so > I am hoping someone out there will be able to answer this. I have a > friend who is pregnant and drinking raw milk. The cow that was > providing her milk was diagnosed with tetanus, and will not live. As > she has already just consumed some of the milk from that cow...what are > her risks or the babie's risk to getting tetanus? (She has not had a > tetanus shot) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Yes, everything I am finding mentions nothing about contracting it through food, only through wounds. Believe me, if it could be gotten through food, these websites would say so. D. moderator > > Doesm't tetanus have to enter the bloodstream directly? Like > stepping on a rusty nail? I thought it was a bloodstream thing > and that it could not survive if ingested in the digestive tract. > Not many bacteria can withstand stomach acids and the billions > of good bacteria we have in our system. > > Raw milk also protects against foreign invaders like that, esp. > foreign bacteria. It has all kinds of enzymes and peptides > designed to weed out bad bacteria. Since Tetanus is a > bacteria, I bet we're covered there. Raw milk has it's own > immine system. > > I also think that the placenta is a very protective organ. I really > believe it works as a boundary between baby and mom. I got > bronchitis when I was pregnant, took antibiotics and everything > and the babe was fine. (This was pre-raw milk and pre-Weston > Price Foundation). > > Anyway, I will look some more, but I think you can reassure > her that chances are really good that she and the baby are > fine. > D. > moderator > > > > >I have tried to search the database, and have come up empty-handed, so > > > I am hoping someone out there will be able to answer this. I have a > > > friend who is pregnant and drinking raw milk. The cow that was > > > providing her milk was diagnosed with tetanus, and will not live. As > > > she has already just consumed some of the milk from that cow...what are > > > her risks or the babie's risk to getting tetanus? (She has not had a > > > tetanus shot) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 No, you are confused. Tetanus and other clostridium family bacteria can lay dormant for decades. It's one VERY tough organism!!! This is the family of tetanus, overeating disease (in rumenants), blackleg, anthrax, pulpy kidney (also called redwater), botulism. Stomach acid, enzymes in milk or whatever will not put a dent in it either! What it needs is to be carried into an area of the body that doesn't get any oxygen and their it start to grow and thrive. The toxins it produces are then carried into rest of body by the circulatory system. You most likely have some types of clostridium family in your own gut (tetanus is most common,) but it's harmless because conditions are not right for it to grow. There are just a few present, not an immune system overwhelming amount like if you had consumed contaminated substances. So, it just barely hangs on and has a poor living to make. Let something happen to change that? Like you have intestinal surgery? Or recieve some injury to your gut from a sharp object (like a dog with a bone shard) and you got troubles!! Then if it gets carried into that wound and able to find the right conditions to grow? I nearly lost a great Border Collie, Hit, from tetanus. There is not a vaccine for dogs because they rarely ever get it. In fact the vet had never seen a case in a dog nor had the UT College of Vet Medicine at Knoxville. We think Hit got it from a bone he chewed upon and a shard probably nicked his intestines. We saved him with high doses of pennicillan, but he was one super stiff 'saw horse' for about two weeks. Rumenants are plauged by clostridium (overeating disease) when they are fed something that forms a nice, oxygen excluding 'pudding' in their stomach- like when ol' Bessy gets in the chicken house and eats her head off in the chick starter mash!!! There is a vaccine, but it provides very little protection. Best protection is to always ensure animal has a FULL belly of long stemmed fiber (hay, browse, graze) before you feed any concentrates AND secure all feedroom doors! Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > Tetanus is caused by an anearobic bacteria and is treatable if caught early > > enough. I don't think you could get it from the milk but maybe you would be > > best to talk to a vet? I googled tetanus merck manual and there is piles of > > info about how it is contracted etc and nothing mentions milk. > > Debbie Chikousky > > Manitoba, Canada > > gdchik@ > > tetanus from milk? > > > > > > >I have tried to search the database, and have come up empty- handed, so > > > I am hoping someone out there will be able to answer this. I have a > > > friend who is pregnant and drinking raw milk. The cow that was > > > providing her milk was diagnosed with tetanus, and will not live. As > > > she has already just consumed some of the milk from that cow...what are > > > her risks or the babie's risk to getting tetanus? (She has not had a > > > tetanus shot) > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Donna...there is a limit to everyone's knowledge...even youre. There is no such place in one's body " What it needs is to be carried into an area of the body that doesn't get any oxygen " ...YOUR words. Every single living cell in your and my body gets oxygen, period. Bob > > No, you are confused. > What it needs is to be carried into an area of the body that doesn't > get any oxygen and their it start to grow and thrive.oom doors! > Donna > Safehaven Nubians > Dandridge, TN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 I myself would dump the milk. I don't think it's a good idea to drink milk from an animal that has any sickness. Don't think it matters if it can come through the milk or not. The tetenus vaccine is one that works really well, particularly for farm animals like cows, horses and goats. Nothing wrong with using it to protect a valuable investment like a milk cow. Tetunus does strike farm animals fairly often. -- *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~* @ " Laudo Deum " Farm kinderfolk_n_liddlebuds@... http://laudodeumfarmholisticgoatcare.blogspot.com/ (Exploring ways to raise happy, healthy quality Kinder, Nigerian Dwarf and Mini-Nubian goats for small farms, homesteaders and families with young children. We love our goats too much to let them suffer from preventable diseases so ALL our kids will be on a disease prevention program.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 If this cow is dying of tetanus I highly doubt it is now being milked. I would assume, I know that is a dangerous thing to do, that she was milked before she actually showed symptoms. I would think it would be a good idea to know where the wound was. If it was on her udder then maybe it really could be an issue. As an aside. I do vaccine for tetanus and still have lost goats to it. It is not a sure fire thing and yes it is horrible to watch one die. The best thing I have ever done was learn the symptoms and learn how to treat for it before they are so sick it cannot be treated instead of depending on the vaccine that doesn't always work for us. Spent hours with our vet over this last year. Debbie Chikousky Manitoba, Canada gdchik@... Re: tetanus from milk? >I myself would dump the milk. I don't think it's a good idea to drink > milk from an animal that has any sickness. Don't think it matters if it > can come through the milk or not. > > The tetenus vaccine is one that works really well, particularly for farm > animals like cows, horses and goats. Nothing wrong with using it to > protect a valuable investment like a milk cow. Tetunus does strike farm > animals fairly often. > > > > -- > > *~*~* Jo & Pete *~*~* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Bob, There is a limit to everyone's knowledge, no joke. What I was trying to say is that the bacteria need the type of wound where they are deposited in an area where they will be sealed in without any exposure to air/oxygen. And, yes, your body is quite capable of healing over an injury so fast that tetanus will thrive IF it got in there. Again, go read up on occurances of tetanus in countries where they don't vaccinate like India, Pakistan, China, and others. People die from tetanus in these countries....they do not in the USA. The fear of 'rusty nail' is that any punctures of any kind provide that perfect enviroment for tetanus to thrive- deep wound that gets sealed shut almost immediately. It's the poster child 'perfect storm' of what can cause tetanus. Problem with tetanus is you never know WHICH injury has the bacteria contamination. It can be some slight thing which you don't even recall happening, doesn't have to be a major trauma. I have seen enough animals die from it that I am very motivated to keep my tetanus vaccination up to date. Donna Safehaven Nubians Dandridge, TN > > > > No, you are confused. > > > What it needs is to be carried into an area of the body that doesn't > > get any oxygen and their it start to grow and thrive.oom doors! > > Donna > > Safehaven Nubians > > Dandridge, TN > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Pat Coleby writes in her book, Natural Cattle Care, to use vit C for an animal with tetanus. She says to use it for 14 days on an animal with tetanus prone wounds and that an animal showing the symptoms will respond in hours to an injection of vit C. She says to use 100cc initially and 30 cc every hour until signs cease. After improvement keep animal quiet and give vit C twice a day for a couple of days. Cheyenne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Thanks for this Cheyenne. I really have to get this book. Debbie Chikousky Manitoba, Canada gdchik@... Re: tetanus from milk? > > > Pat Coleby writes in her book, Natural Cattle Care, to use vit C for > an animal with tetanus. She says to use it for 14 days on an animal > with tetanus prone wounds and that an animal showing the symptoms will > respond in hours to an injection of vit C. She says to use 100cc > initially and 30 cc every hour until signs cease. After improvement > keep animal quiet and give vit C twice a day for a couple of days. > > Cheyenne > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2007 Report Share Posted September 4, 2007 I have Pat Colby’s book on Goats and now I want them all. It’s the best all round natural health book on goats I’ve come across yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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