RE: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

February 22, 2007

,

I have a solution: just bid every job at

the $10K mark. If you can do a $50K for $10k (because of the cap) than you can

more easily do a 10, 20, 30 40K for $10k and still make money just like the

$50K you do for the $10K limit.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Jim H. White

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007

10:52 AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Here we

go again [was: Insurance cap...]

Some very good points; as an industry matures it is often

possible to do better for less than we originally used to do. Also, having a

good estimate, with plenty of necessary detail and no obvious padding, can get

you many a job.

Jim H. White SSC

Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

LiveSimply:

You just don’t get it do you.

is performing remediation within a budget allowed/specified by insurance

companies. I imagine he would do just what you advocate, i.e., remediate

to improve people’s health.....IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT!

And if no one is going to pay for it, and the only monies available are

the fees that the insurance company is offering/paying, then that is all that

is going to be spent; and that includes remediation to placate legal

obligations – the insurance company’s legal obligations. Quit

bashing

because he is working within parameters set by the insurance companies.

If you feel so compelled that more needs to be done/spent, then go down

to Florida where works and donate to each and every

remediation effort he performs in order to improve the health of the people

there. You would be a Saint! I imagine can spend your money just as well as he

spends the insurance company’s money. He sure isn’t going to

donate any of his own. And if you are not willing to donate, then start

complaining to the insurance companies that they are not improving

people’s health; instead of that he is not doing enuff. Moreover,

all insurance has limits of coverage based on premiums paid. If the

insured is not willing to pay higher premiums for high levels of coverage, then

the responsibility needs to be shared between the insured and the insurer.

(Pay peanuts, expect monkeys.) IMHO...Your negative comments to are misguided and

not well placed. Your fire-damage analogy proves you don’t get it,

i.e., if an insured had only $10K in coverage for fire damage, then the insurer

is only going to pay $10K for fire damage; no more. is providing a service within specified

bounds set by others. He does not have to be, nor is he expected to be, a

Saint.

Money does not buy happiness, but it is way ahead of whatever is in second

place!

On 2/20/07 8:08 AM, " LiveSimply " <quackadillian@ gmail.com>

wrote:

,

There is a very real disconnect going on here from remediation to improve

people's health and remediation to placate legal obligations. They are two

different goals and they should be identified as such by the use of different

words. Otherwise it gets confusing for the poor commoners like myself. Or maybe

that is the whole point.

Basing these cleanups' scope on the amount of insurance money available is also

bad reasoning. If your house burned down but you only had $10,000 coverage,

would you only do a $10,000 'repair'?

Often, buildings need to be gutted so they can actually be cleaned fully. Or

demolished and replaced.

To do anything else is deceptive because the repair won't stick.

On 2/15/07, gary

rosen <garyrosen72652@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Wane,

All I can say is that if IEPs in general saved people money then the insurance

companies would want to pay for IEPs, but instead they rarely want to pay for

IEPs to write protocols. Does that mean the insurance companies like to

overpay by hiring remediators to overcharge them?

I have no doubt that a qualified IEP can be very cost effective on larger jobs

if the remediator is inexperienced.

>From my point of view, in our area the mold remediators " tend " to

have more experience than IEPs. Why because the remediators have

construction experience and the IEPs have little to nonet. So IEPs don't

add much except extra costs.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books. com <http://www.Mold-

Books.com>

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Search movie showtime shortcut.

February 22, 2007

Quack,

Has anyone though of tenant coverage?

That can make a big difference. Its not up to the landlord to protect others

belongings. That is why the carriers have created a tenant’s policy. Like

the landlord, buy what you need (or can afford).

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Geyer

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007

12:24 AM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Here we

go again [was: Insurance cap...]

LiveSimply:

Granted. I hear what you are saying. But consider this.

Property insurance is “property” insurance, for the sake of

being redundant. It is not health insurance. Moreover, all

insurance has limits of liability and limits of coverage, and those limits are

based on premiums paid. No one wants an event to occur that would

necessitate calling their insurance company to make a claim, because that event

is, more often than not, a loss. Insurance is not necessarily designed to

make someone or some property 100% whole without some contribution from the

insured. This contribution comes in several forms, e.g., deductibles, low

limits, exclusions of coverage, caps, etc. How does the

insured reduce the contribution?.....he/she pays higher premiums...another

form of contribution! Taking myself for example, I pay the minimum level

of property insurance premium for property damage because I am gambling that I

will have no claim. I built my home to withstand an 8.0 earthquake (and I

sit on a block of rock bordered by three significant faults), I have a

fire-proof exterior (and I live in a high fire-hazard area), the home is on a

slope (side of a mountain really) so the chance of flooding is nil, and if anything

happens, it is probably my own fault (or one of my kids) and I will rebuild.

On the other hand, I pay significant premiums for car insurance because

my wife and I seem to attract the un-insured illegal immigrant driver that is

so prevalent here in California,

and we have had 7 significant no-fault car accidents in 20 years, including one

that nearly killed me. I HAVE needed my car insurance and I personally

found out what it is like when there is insufficient coverage to pay a claim.

This said, I clearly understand how a person (or family) can become

hypersensitive to biologicals (e.g., mold) in their home and need more than a

customary remediation effort; the type of effort that costs a significant sum.

However, this is not what most “property” insurance policies

are designed to do, i.e., make the insured 110% whole and damn-near sterilize

their home to a better than pre-loss condition. Now....it IS possible to

get this type of insurance, before the loss, but the premiums are substantial. And

most folks just do not believe that they will ever need such coverage nor are

they willing to pay the premium for this coverage. It is their gamble!

Hence, herein lies the issue.....When people’s health is

compromised due to a water event and resulting biological bloom in their

dwelling unit, making that dwelling unit unsuitable for their habitation, they

cry for help. Moreover, many often accuse the insurance company of not

doing enuff to make their dwelling unit livable to their changed condition, i.e.,

hypersensitivity. I am not being crass, I am pointing out an issue, a

problem, a dilemma, i.e., typical “property” insurance is not

designed nor is it capable of rectifying this situation for the now

hypersensitive. It is only designed to restore the structure to a

pre-loss condition based on average, typical and common suitability standards.

Not higher than average standards; regardless of the health of the

occupants, both pre- or post-loss. Improving occupant health is not part

of a property insurance policy requirement. I have empathy and compassion

for those hypersensitive folks that can no longer live in their dwelling unit.

It is heartbreaking at times. For me, it is especially difficult

when kids are harmed. But I do not fault the insurance companies for

it......UNLESS the occupant paid the premiums for coverage that the insurance

company is now weaseling out of. Then I get pissed.

For what it is worth....

On 2/21/07 1:15 PM, " LiveSimply " <quackadilliangmail>

wrote:

, I understand completely what you are saying but do you understand what

I am saying?

I don't want people to work for free. Thats not what i was talking about.

But there are certain patterns of dysfunction happening and they are happening

because of miscommunications.

These jobs are being represented often as being fixed when they really aren't.

Thats what is really problematic.

What is really needed is for the scope of these jobs to be better defined and

what the final result is expected to be. Different people's expectations are

completely different, clearly.

We could argue about things until we are blue in the face but you know and I

know that when people have been made sick by mold they then after that need to

live in surroundings that have much less mold than what I assume you and the

others discussing this meant by 'pre loss conditions'. (A few people here had

the courage to bring that up, thank you.)

Often, a bad mold situation is the result of years of 'deferred maintenance'.

Lets use an analogy that may fit the worst of these situations.. when a band

aid is put on a gaping wound, it doesn't stick.

To get to the main point for me - when people get sick it is often impossible

for them to move back into these supposedly remediated buildings. What that

tells me is that there needs to be a better way of communicating what the end

goal is and whether it has been achieved. Thats not happening now and I think

that there is an effort coming from a lot of sectors to obscure and muddy the

situation rather than clarify it.

Many people here, yourself included, represent yourselves as being

professionals but we still have no CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS way of determining

whether these jobs have been clearly done.. some way that can be codified in

laws, for example. The goal being defining whether people will get sick in a

space..

People here don't talk about that and what could be done to represent the

situation honestly so that whatever needs to be done to get the right kind of

things done to make spaces habitable is done and also make sure that people are

paid appropriately for their work. (or lack of it)

On 2/20/07, Geyer

<mgeyeratg1> wrote:

LiveSimply:

You just don't get it do you.

is performing remediation within a budget allowed/specified by insurance

companies. I imagine he would do just what you advocate, i.e., remediate

to improve people's health.....IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT! And if

no one is going to pay for it, and the only monies available are the fees that

the insurance company is offering/paying, then that is all that is going to be

spent; and that includes remediation to placate legal obligations – the

insurance company's legal obligations. Quit bashing because he is working within parameters

set by the insurance companies. If you feel so compelled that more needs

to be done/spent, then go down to Florida

where

works and donate to each and every remediation effort he performs in order to

improve the health of the people there. You would be a Saint! I

imagine

can spend your money just as well as he spends the insurance company's money.

He sure isn't going to donate any of his own. And if you are not

willing to donate, then start complaining to the insurance companies that they

are not improving people's health; instead of that he is not doing enuff.

Moreover, all insurance has limits of coverage based on premiums paid.

If the insured is not willing to pay higher premiums for high levels of

coverage, then the responsibility needs to be shared between the insured and

the insurer. (Pay peanuts, expect monkeys.) IMHO...Your negative

comments to

are misguided and not well placed. Your fire-damage analogy proves you

don't get it, i.e., if an insured had only $10K in coverage for fire damage,

then the insurer is only going to pay $10K for fire damage; no more. is providing a

service within specified bounds set by others. He does not have to be,

nor is he expected to be, a Saint.

Money does not buy happiness, but it is way ahead of whatever is in second

place!

February 22, 2007

yep, these days we're all real impressed with the IICRC WRT program. especially since the 11-year old in Anchorage whose dad runs a carpet cleaning business received his WRT certificate.

according to the CleanFax article, he even learned about "psycho-metrics" -- which of course is taught by Alfred Hitchcock.

amazing!

Wane

>> Stacey,> > Have you taken the IICRC ASD training on drying out wall cavities? When you do, then you will be able to comprehend the value of drying out wall cavities before mold forms. It is much cheaper than yanking out the wall after it is full of mold.> > When you take the IICRC WRT training you will know that S500 recommends that flooded materials be sprayed with disinfectant to reduce the growth of microbials.> > I fully support proper drying techniques that prevent mold growth. > > Rosen IICRC WRT, ASD, AMRT> www.Mold-Books.com>

February 23, 2007

Quack,

Has anyone though of tenant coverage? That can make a big difference. Its not up to the landlord to protect others belongings. That is why the carriers have created a tenantâ€™s policy. Like the landlord, buy what you need (or can afford).

Bob/Ma.

Wouldn'tcha know it.... the renters policies have mold exclusions, too.

Steve

February 23, 2007

Quack,

Has anyone though of tenant coverage? That can make a big difference. Its not up to the landlord to protect others belongings. That is why the carriers have created a tenantâ€™s policy. Like the landlord, buy what you need (or can afford).

Bob/Ma.

Wouldn'tcha know it.... the renters policies have mold exclusions, too.

Steve

February 23, 2007

Bob,

Take the IICRC ASD training and they will show you how to dry a whole flooded house with no mold growth.

Go to: http://www.drieaz.com/ and check out there specialty products for drying walls and floors.

Bob, when you consultant types ask these types of questions it is really scary. It means that people are paying you for advice on how to deal with water damage but you never took any training on the subject.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

"There are many things that we have learned that help us reduce costs and at the same time improve quality." - RosenWhat - like duct taping a shop vac to a ladder to dry out a ceiling cavity that's been doused with "Zep"???Give me a break... -Stacey ChampionEven a little dog can piss on a big building.> > > > > > Wane,> > All I can say is that if IEPs in general saved people money then the insurance companies would want to pay for IEPs, but instead they rarely want to pay for IEPs to write protocols. Does that mean the insurance companies like to overpay by hiring remediators to overcharge them? > > I have no doubt that a qualified IEP can be very cost effective on

larger jobs if the remediator is inexperienced. > > >From my point of view, in our area the mold remediators "tend" to have more experience than IEPs. Why because the remediators have construction experience and the IEPs have little to nonet. So IEPs don't add much except extra costs. > > Rosen> www.Mold-Books. com <http://www.Mold- Books.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _____________ ___> TV dinner still cooling? > Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.> http://tv.yahoo. com/>

Never miss an email again!Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

February 23, 2007

,Thats not what I am talking about. What do you think about when a landlord refuses to fix or even acknowledge say, mold coming out of a heater, forcing tenants to not use their central heat. People never think they are going to get sick until they are sick and even then, making the connection between an unhealthy home and the building takes a long time if ever. Don't forget, 'experts' are telling us not to worry, be happy.. All I am getting at is that the explicit contract between a landlord and tenant is lacking many explicit things that need to be spelled out better. It should not be the tenants responsibility to fix these things. They can't afford it. There should not be a financial incentive to landlords to do these things. Because bad landlords always want old tenants to move out and new tenants to move in, as that maximizes their cash flow. (Good landlords realize that a good tenant will often mean more peace of mind in the short run, and less maintenance for the kinds of things bad tenants do - and thats worth the differential. )

In recent years, much of their money is made in appreciation of a property, anyway..not rent.All around the country affordable housing is dissapearing and there is no place for many working people to move to. We need to stop this war as a matter of public policy because if we don't, more and more lives which are currently being ruined will drop off the edge of the map economically. These are not statistics they are real people. These kinds of things could happen to you someday. Or your parents or your friends.

February 23, 2007

By the way, I apologise for anything I may say that annoys people and

also please don't take anything I say personally. I am trying to get

better. Others might not see it by I have seen improvements on certain

levels. I think that everyone in this situation takes a long time to

heal.

You might notice that when people get mold illness that there is a

pattern to the way they write (its also effected my handwriting..

dramatically..)

I have thought that text mining people's writing might be a way of

diagnosing some of what is wrong with people.. semantic analysis. When

someone has written a lot the statistical analysis of that body of

writing could be very interesting as it averages out the effect of

emotional state, day to day health, etc, and could tell someone with

the smarts to find it a lot..

Wonder if anyone has ever tried that..

February 23, 2007

By the way, I apologise for anything I may say that annoys people and

also please don't take anything I say personally. I am trying to get

better. Others might not see it by I have seen improvements on certain

levels. I think that everyone in this situation takes a long time to

heal.

You might notice that when people get mold illness that there is a

pattern to the way they write (its also effected my handwriting..

dramatically..)

I have thought that text mining people's writing might be a way of

diagnosing some of what is wrong with people.. semantic analysis. When

someone has written a lot the statistical analysis of that body of

writing could be very interesting as it averages out the effect of

emotional state, day to day health, etc, and could tell someone with

the smarts to find it a lot..

Wonder if anyone has ever tried that..

February 24, 2007

,

I now know how you keep microbial projects

under 10K. You as a CIEC [see hyper http://www.iaqcouncil.org/Consumers/Certificants/All-Certifications/certifications-R.htm

and hyper http://www.iaqcouncil.org/cgi/membersearchV2.pl?Zip= & First_Name= & Last_Name= & City=Davie & Company= & Image1.x=0 & Image1.y=0

under Rosen, ( Rosen = CIE, CIEC, CRMI)] apparently reflect yourself more representative

of an uneducated microbial remediation contractor and this thought is derived by

your own admission. Why is it you have no credentials as a remediation technician

through the council? Is it because the council’s certification is the

hardest to challenge? As you know, it is the only certification that has CESB accreditation.

Your CRMI, CIE, & CIEC are all investigative certifications only. They do

not allow one to perform duties in other tracks.

While there doing the remediation work I cut open her AC

ducts. They were 25 year old rigid duct and were quite nasty. Her shag

carpets are 15 years old. I explained that for her house to be like new

(mold free) she would need new ducts as the current ducts cannot be

cleaned. And she would need new carpet as the current carpet is way

beyond cleaning.

and

This is looking at the mold and allergen problems from a

" whole house " point of view. You can't just fix a wall and then

as part of that work and with some extensive testing somehow make the house

like new. Often there needs to be big money spent on AC duct

replacement, new carpet, mold remediation and sometimes replacing old fabric

furniture and curtains etc.

, it

appears you are more of a contractor than an IEP and it is now clearer than

ever by your own admission(s). Maybe that is why you don’t understand why

it is important to have an IEP brought in on certain losses.

Question, how is it you did not include

the porous materials (carpeting) in the insurance coverage under remediation? I

also though you said you took the IICRC drying classes (see: Stacey, Have

you taken the IICRC ASD training on drying out wall cavities? When you do, then

you will be able to comprehend the value of drying out wall cavities before

mold forms. It is much cheaper than yanking out the wall after it is full of

mold.

Rosen IICRC WRT, ASD, AMRT. I believe that according to your statement I could extrapolate

that you should have been subjected or familiar with the IICRC S500 & 520

documents. Carpets are addressed in these documents.

Bob/Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007

5:39 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Here we

go again [was: Insurance cap...]

Quack,

It is not that simple. I'm doing a small remediation

job for a woman that has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy. She was

never sensitive to mold but now is. She is of modest means but not

poor. She wants a mold free house. This means like new.

This costs money.

I was there to remove and replace part of her front wall

which was water damaged. (Insurance paid her about 2x what I charged.)

While there doing the remediation work I cut open her AC

ducts. They were 25 year old rigid duct and were quite nasty. Her shag

carpets are 15 years old. I explained that for her house to be like new

(mold free) she would need new ducts as the current ducts cannot be

cleaned. And she would need new carpet as the current carpet is way

beyond cleaning.

She has decided to have this work done. When done we

will go back in and clean and test and provide a like new home for her.

This is looking at the mold and allergen problems from a

" whole house " point of view. You can't just fix a wall and then

as part of that work and with some extensive testing somehow make the house

like new. Often there needs to be big money spent on AC duct

replacement, new carpet, mold remediation and sometimes replacing old fabric

furniture and curtains etc.

Poor people cannot afford this. What they can do

is rip out the old carpet and open their windows to keep their homes

well ventillated. In third world countries there is no increase in asthma

or cases of mold illnesses since there is no AC and homes are open to the fresh

outside air.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

I'm

sorry, I should clarify that this was me snapping (I'm sorry that

I got mad, its not for his last post but its for some of the things

he's said previously) at .

The point that I was trying to make is that when poor people rent and

they complain about mold, more often than not the 'solution' that they

often fight for months or even years to get is no solution at all, for

them.

If they haven't moved already, obviously they will have to move

regardless of whether there is anyplace for them to go or not. If they

end up like me then they are so sick that they can't live in many

other places either.

And they can't work in many workplaces.

Look, let me spell it out just the last few days worth..I know that

for me myself and I am in my 40s, too young for this, I can't go into

many places without getting ill. A few days my wife and I went

shopping for cheap - very cheap - GPS units because we both are not

doing well reading maps or finding places.. something I used to be

really good at - that ability is now literally gone.. fried..

whatever..

So we went into some of these big office supply stores and I

immediately got a splitting headache. The result of this is that I

stay at home and don't go out that much because unless the destination

is outdoors, I know that in many places I will get sick and I do. So I

avoid them unless its necessary.

What the hell are people like me supposed to do when (if?) we recover

enough to start looking for jobs?

So please excuse me for getting angry.. but I think we really need

some EFFECTIVE way of TESTING AND CERTIFYING WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT

PLACES ARE ACTUALLY REMEDIATED AND WE NEED TO CODIFY THAT INTO LAW...

Then when you folks accept a job you will have a defined goal and you

will have to price your services to reflect its true cost. If that

means that insurance rates will have to go up so be it. By all

accounts insurance companies have been raking in record profits, even

with Katrina etc. so I don't think that they will be impacted that

much.. The net result will be the purchasers of insurance will have to

do better maintenance rather that rely on insurance companies to bail

them out of situations that are frequently and emphatically their

fault.

if you don't maintain a building, you have problems.

>

> Oh the 'magic of the marketplace' , right?

>

> (I probably should not have brought this up to you because I didn't

> want to give you ideas)

>

Everyone is raving about the

all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

February 24, 2007

Steve,

I am working on a report for a tenant who

had coverage for mold. Hot water leaked and mold resulted. The tenant’s carrier

is covering the loss.

Bob.Ma.

From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of AirwaysEnv@...

Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007

1:15 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Here we

go again [was: Insurance cap...]

In a message dated 2/23/2007 10:18:51 AM

Eastern Standard Time, BobEnvironmentalAirTechs writes:

Quack,

Has anyone though of tenant coverage? That can make a

big difference. Its not up to the landlord to protect others belongings. That

is why the carriers have created a tenant’s policy. Like the landlord, buy what

you need (or can afford).

Bob/Ma.

Wouldn'tcha know it.... the renters policies have

mold exclusions, too.

Steve

February 24, 2007

Bob,

I am IICRC AMRT certified with a paid up certification. I was IAQA CMR certified but do not pay to update the CMR credentials as I don't need it so long as I have the IICRC AMRT.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

I'm sorry, I should clarify that this was me snapping (I'm sorry thatI got mad, its not for his last post but its for some of the thingshe's said previously) at .The point that I was trying to make is that when poor people rent andthey complain about mold, more often than not the 'solution' that theyoften fight for months or even years to get is no solution at all, forthem.If they haven't moved already, obviously they will have to moveregardless of whether there is anyplace for them to go or not. If theyend up like me then they are so sick that they can't live in manyother places either.And they can't work in many workplaces.Look, let me spell it out just the last few days worth..I know thatfor me myself and I am in my 40s, too young for this, I can't go intomany places without getting ill. A few days my wife and I

wentshopping for cheap - very cheap - GPS units because we both are notdoing well reading maps or finding places.. something I used to bereally good at - that ability is now literally gone.. fried..whatever..So we went into some of these big office supply stores and Iimmediately got a splitting headache. The result of this is that Istay at home and don't go out that much because unless the destinationis outdoors, I know that in many places I will get sick and I do. So Iavoid them unless its necessary.What the hell are people like me supposed to do when (if?) we recoverenough to start looking for jobs?So please excuse me for getting angry.. but I think we really needsome EFFECTIVE way of TESTING AND CERTIFYING WITHOUT A DOUBT THATPLACES ARE ACTUALLY REMEDIATED AND WE NEED TO CODIFY THAT INTO LAW...Then when you folks accept a job you will have a defined goal and youwill have to price your

services to reflect its true cost. If thatmeans that insurance rates will have to go up so be it. By allaccounts insurance companies have been raking in record profits, evenwith Katrina etc. so I don't think that they will be impacted thatmuch.. The net result will be the purchasers of insurance will have todo better maintenance rather that rely on insurance companies to bailthem out of situations that are frequently and emphatically theirfault.if you don't maintain a building, you have problems.>> Oh the 'magic of the marketplace' , right?>> (I probably should not have brought this up to you because I didn't> want to give you ideas)>

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

February 24, 2007

Bob,

If the tenant has such coverage it is for contents (cabinets, carpets, etc.) but does not cover any work on wall cavities, ceiling spaces or AC ducting inside of walls or ceilings.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

In a message dated 2/23/2007 10:18:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bob@EnvironmentalAi rTechs.com writes:

Quack,

Has anyone though of tenant coverage? That can make a big difference. Its not up to the landlord to protect others belongings. That is why the carriers have created a tenant’s policy. Like the landlord, buy what you need (or can afford).Bob/Ma.Wouldn'tcha know it.... the renters policies have mold exclusions, too.Steve

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

February 24, 2007

, that

wasn’t a real response; then again, consider the source.

For Bob/ma and Stacey:

I did a case in the Southeast

US at a pediatric medical facility several years ago. It was

flooded to a couple feet (clear water-line mark). Drywall, FG, wood

frame, brick; carpeted floor. It was dried within 72 hours to my

acceptable numbers. Testing of occupant air (ca. 13 samples if I recall

correctly) plus wall cavities were good. After a couple weeks the wall cavities

were opened up in several spots – they were fine. I was shocked,

but I learned a lesson - it is very possible.

Tony

.......................................................................

" Tony " Havics,

CHMM, CIH, PE

pH2, LLC

5250 E US

36, Suite 830

Avon, IN

46123

off

fax

cell

90% of Risk Management is knowing where to

place the decimal point...any consultant can give you the other 10%(SM)

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From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of gary rosen

Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007

1:40 PM

To: iequality

Subject: Re: Re: Here

we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

Bob,

Take the IICRC ASD training and they will show you how to

dry a whole flooded house with no mold growth.

Go to: http://www.drieaz.com/ and

check out there specialty products for drying walls and floors.

Bob, when you consultant types ask these types of

questions it is really scary. It means that people are paying you for

advice on how to deal with water damage but you never took any training on the

subject.

Rosen

www.Mold-Books.com

Re: Here we go again [was: Insurance cap...]

" There

are many things that we have learned that help us reduce

costs and at the same time improve quality. " - Rosen

What - like duct taping a shop vac to a ladder to dry out a ceiling

cavity that's been doused with " Zep " ???

Give me a break...

-Stacey Champion

Even a little dog can piss on a big building.

>

> Wane,

>

> All I can say is that if IEPs in general saved people money then

the insurance companies would want to pay for IEPs, but instead they

rarely want to pay for IEPs to write protocols. Does that mean the

insurance companies like to overpay by hiring remediators to

overcharge them?

>

> I have no doubt that a qualified IEP can be very cost effective on

larger jobs if the remediator is inexperienced.

>

> >From my point of view, in our area the mold remediators

" tend " to

have more experience than IEPs. Why because the remediators have

construction experience and the IEPs have little to nonet. So IEPs

don't add much except extra costs.

>

> Rosen

> www.Mold-Books. com <http://www.Mold-

Books.com>

>

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February 24, 2007