Re: PD causing cancer or abdominal masses? (was: need advice...somewhat desperately)

[Guest guest]

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From:

> >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of

laurainnewjersey

>

>

> >

> >heidi, someone posted over on rawdairy an 'article' about Nature's

> >Biotics...it really was a was long ad but very informative. i

think

> >i posted it here a few months ago. it sounded a lot like the story

> >behind the garden of life primal defense as told by jordan rubin in

> >his books. now of course he said the primal defense was healing

and

> >would help with a lot of problems...but it turned out that tumors

or

> >masses in the abdomen or cancer or something was the result...

>

> Um, care to share the body of evidence showing that PD has caused

cancer or

> abdominal masses?

suze, someone here posted it...that's how i learned that. i don't

remember who posted it or when...a few months ago? i guess you don't

remember? i'm pretty sure it was here...it could have been rawdairy

or onibasu but i'm pretty sure it was here...someone posted it

basically in response to something i said or asked about garden of

life...in order to inform me about it. scared me to death when i

read it. it said people who had been on primal defense for a long

time turned up with masses in their abdomens...that's all i remember

for sure. i didn't keep a copy of it and i'm not very good at

finding things here (i've tried).

maybe someone else here can chime in about this...(i hope).

sorry suze.

but i know it read it...

laura

[Guest guest]

laurainnewjersey <laurabusse@...> wrote:Suze, someone here posted

it...that's how i learned that. i don't

remember who posted it or when...a few months ago? i guess you don't

remember? i'm pretty sure it was here...it could have been rawdairy

or onibasu but i'm pretty sure it was here...someone posted it

basically in response to something i said or asked about garden of

life...in order to inform me about it. scared me to death when i

read it. it said people who had been on primal defense for a long

time turned up with masses in their abdomens...that's all i remember

for sure. i didn't keep a copy of it and i'm not very good at

finding things here (i've tried).

maybe someone else here can chime in about this...(i hope).

sorry suze.

but i know it read it...

laura

Like Suze, I would be interested in some documentation regarding this claim.

I've been on this list for about a year, and I don't recall reading a message

regarding this, but maybe I missed it. Anyone?

Rebekah

---------------------------------

Start your day with - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

I tend to skim what isn't of particular interest to me, but I do recall

reading -- here I think --something about a woman with a similar product to

sell who was badmouthing Primal Defense. The only reason I recall it at all

(though not in its details) is that the basic argument seemed to be: " my

dirt is better than your dirt " -- a sublimated form of mud-slinging if I

ever heard one. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

Suze, someone here posted

it...that's how i learned that. i don't

> remember who posted it or when...a few months ago? i guess you

don't

> remember? i'm pretty sure it was here...it could have been

rawdairy

> or onibasu but i'm pretty sure it was here...someone posted it

> basically in response to something i said or asked about garden of

> life...in order to inform me about it. scared me to death when i

> read it. it said people who had been on primal defense for a long

> time turned up with masses in their abdomens...that's all i

remember

> for sure. i didn't keep a copy of it and i'm not very good at

> finding things here (i've tried).

>

> maybe someone else here can chime in about this...(i hope).

>

> sorry suze.

>

> but i know it read it...

>

> laura

>

>

>

> Like Suze, I would be interested in some documentation regarding

this claim. I've been on this list for about a year, and I don't

recall reading a message regarding this, but maybe I missed it.

Anyone?

>

>

>

> Rebekah

i remember more what happened now...

we were talking about soil organisms here. i think i was going on

and on about how wonderful the pills, such as primal defense, are

supposed to be.

someone posted that the garden of life was problematic...and said

they would try to post the link or something, and someone posted a

LINK, and i think it was actually 2 links.

so i don't think it was an actual post...so if you didn't click on

the link, suze and rebekah, then you wouldn't have read it.

i remember clicking on the links, and the info in the link was very,

very long, but what i got out of it was that there were people, like

i said, who had been on garden of life for a long time and turned up

with masses in their abdomens.

to add to this, a friend of mine told me that she had heard that

there was some kind of problem with primal defense and that they had

reformulated it.

so it's possible that that was the problem...and now it's been fixed,

but i'm just speculating.

also...my brother swears that primal defense has cured his ulcerative

colitis...which he had for many years.

laura in nj

[Guest guest]

,

It just occured to me that my joking around about " dirt " wars might have

been taken by you as a disparagement of PD as a probiotic and your own

interest in it. I hope you weren't offended, as in truth I take a form of

" dirt " -- clay -- every morning, and while I have no personal interest in

the probiotic aspects of PD, I don't discount the possibility of it being

helpful to people.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> It just occured to me that my joking around about " dirt " wars might

have

> been taken by you as a disparagement of PD as a probiotic and your

own

> interest in it. I hope you weren't offended, as in truth I take a

form of

> " dirt " -- clay -- every morning, and while I have no personal

interest in

> the probiotic aspects of PD, I don't discount the possibility of it

being

> helpful to people.

>

>

> http://www.taichi4seniors.com

, i wasn't offended at all...i just thought you were making a

joke. i was actually going to post back but didn't... " claire, don't

you mean dirt slinging? " [rather than mud slinging]. i didn't know

if you said mud slinging on purpose as a play on words.

that's very sweet of you to say that tho...

what is dirt clay?

thanks.

laura

people may disparage dirt pills...but that's like people disparaging

WAPF...you don't know the benefits unless you've tried it. and of

course one has to understand that dirt is not dirt...there is dirt

and then there is dirt. there is variation in soil organisms...hence

the different kinds of cheeses that abound. the particular soil

organisms in PD and the other i mentioned are supposed to be richer

in more beneficial and healing organisms than usual...and as always,

believing in something doesn't make it true...it's either true or it

isn't. kefir is either beneficial or it isn't, or they are for

different people. dirt pills are either beneficial or they're not.

my brother claims they cured him...after many years of trying

everything. anyway.

thanks, claire.

[Guest guest]

>i remember more what happened now...

>

>we were talking about soil organisms here. i think i was going on

>and on about how wonderful the pills, such as primal defense, are

>supposed to be.

>

>someone posted that the garden of life was problematic...and said

>they would try to post the link or something, and someone posted a

>LINK, and i think it was actually 2 links.

>

Hi everyone,

I definitely brought this up recently or not so recently. The BBC

brought up immune system compromise with the bacteria B. Licheniformis,

which I linked to, and also read about in Microbial Nutrition group.

This bacterium is still part of GoL Primal Defense, afaik. I searched

quickly on onibasu, but couldn't find my post here nor on Microbial

Nutrition. Others have brought this up as well. I won't do the

homework. If someone wants to know the pros and cons, then search it

out and come to your own conclusions. Basically, from what I have seen,

this bacteria is associated with infection. The Lancet came out with an

article, which I can not find now, but I believe it was the same as the

BBC article as far as person and gist. Anyone wanting to know more

might seek out, among other things:

, C. M., J. Ravishankar, et al. (2001). " Bacillus licheniformis

causing brain abscess in a normal host. " Clinical Infectious Diseases

33(7): 146.

On NN, someone also suggested that B. Subtilis may be problematic.

And here is the BBC report AGAIN:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2561629.stm

Here's the EPA's angle, but by all means, don't expect these links to

show what you are looking for. I will not vouch for them. Do your own

research and come to your own conclusions. I am merely offering what

bits I see on minor searching.

http://www.epa.gov/oppt/biotech/fra/fra005.htm

" In a 10 year review of records at the YaleNew Haven Hospital, /B.

licheniformis /was isolated four times as a cause of infection (Edberg,

1992). In two patients the species was associated with eye trauma; in

one patient it was associated with a silicone-based implant; and in the

fourth patient it was associated with metastatic lung cancer. "

Deanna

[Guest guest]

,

<what is dirt clay?

I have no idea if clay really comes under the heading of dirt, but I call it

such with the view that, like dirt, most people would be more comfortable

walking on it than eating it.

The clay I'm talking about is the same material you probably, as a child,

mixed with water to make your tiny statues or pots. Both animals and humans

have been using it " forever " as a source of trace minerals and as a healing

modality (internal and external). If you want to know more:

http://freefind.com/servlet/freefind?id=9609505 & pageid=r & mode=ALL & query=clay

http://www.taichi4seniors.com