Re: Raw Milk/Colds -

June 6, 2005

,

I have done a lot of research and have determined that IF you're going to drink

milk, goat's milk is the best, why? Because it is the closest thing to REAL

mothers milk.

In regard to being sick, I have NOT had a cold or sickness in two years since I

cut out sugar. One should exercise moderately, too. Cutting refined sugar [we

all know what I mean by sugar] from your diet is the single greatest thing you

can do for your health. If you do indulge from time to time, I have found AGAVE

to be nothing short than amazing in taste and quality. I purchased mine from

www.rawfood.com - it's organic from the US.

laurainnewjersey <laurabusse@...> wrote:

I have only just learned about raw milk etc - still not sure that I

believe that raw cow's milk is good for you. >

__________________________________________________

June 6, 2005

Hi again:

Well I hope you are the one same I was talking to a while ago

about baldness...

Are you sure goat´s milk is the closest to mother´s? I read

that the first place should be given to mare´s milk. Besides, it

seems that milk from ruminants (horses and mares aren't) usually can

laed to intolerance and allergies.

And why do you think, , if that is what you think, that we as

grown-ups (well I suppose most of us are grown-ups) still need

mother´s milk or a substitute?

José

> I have only just learned about raw milk etc - still not sure that I

> believe that raw cow's milk is good for you. >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

June 6, 2005

,

i gave up sugar for one whole year with no cheating and was 99% off

sugar for another 2 years. i still got colds and sometimes

bronchitis. i was also off alcohol and white flour, and i exercised

regularly. and i took supplements.

i'm glad cutting out sugar did that for you, but for me apparently it

was not enough.

laura>

>

> In regard to being sick, I have NOT had a cold or sickness in two

years since I cut out sugar. One should exercise moderately, too.

Cutting refined sugar [we all know what I mean by sugar] from your

diet is the single greatest thing you can do for your health. If you

do indulge from time to time, I have found AGAVE to be nothing short

than amazing in taste and quality. I purchased mine from

www.rawfood.com - it's organic from the US.

>

June 6, 2005

>

> And why do you think, , if that is what you think, that we

as

> grown-ups (well I suppose most of us are grown-ups) still need

> mother´s milk or a substitute?

>

> José

Dear , are you new to this group? are you familiar with

what this group is based on, the book Nourishing Traditions and the

Weston A. Price Foundation?

raw (animal) milk is a 'superfood' and has been used as a food by

humans for thousands of years and there are cultures for whom it is a

staple; the Masai in Africa, for one, and they are very healthy...

many people say drinking raw milk can do a body many wonderful

things...and i am living proof. not only is my immunity better than

its ever been in my life (haven't had a cold in over a year; unheard

of in my life) , but it has also improved my diabetes, something raw

milk has been known to do.

you ought to pick up a copy of the True Story of Milk by Dr. Ron

Schmid, a naturopath who uses raw milk to heal his patients of

various maladies.

you can also check out rawdairy, another group.

best to you.

laura

June 6, 2005

In what way has it improved your diabetes?

Lower blood sugar? How much lower and how do you quantify it? Do you take less

" pills " than before switching to raw milk?

not only is my immunity better than

its ever been in my life (haven't had a cold in over a year; unheard

of in my life) , but it has also improved my diabetes, something raw

milk has been known to do.

June 6, 2005

Hi ,

To answer your question, yes, raw goat's milk is one of the best to drink or

cook with. Goat's milk is the closest to real human mothers milk - to me it's

just logical to use goat's milk if you decide to drink milk over cow's milk.

It depends on your metabolic type if you should drink dairy as an adult. I for

one do not drink it, however, many people do great on raw milk. I use raw milk

to make butter and other stuff – I love eating raw organic cheese.

Also, if you’re not into diary or milk you can make milk with nuts. I still

make hemp milk [4tbs of hemp seeds and 1 cup of water] and add a little bit of

organic Agave for sweetness. You can also use other nuts to make nut milk. I

have found cashews and hemp seeds to be the best.

FYI: Hemp Seeds can be purchased at Harry’s or Whole Foods – Nutiva Brand. They

are incredible in regard to nutrition – hemp seeds have the proper ratio of the

omegas and good source of protein. I absolutely love hemp seeds and use them in

salads and all kinds of dishes.

In sum, it depends of many factors if milk will work for you. If you do decide

to drink milk though, make sure it is raw organic milk, period!

---------------------------------

Discover

Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

June 6, 2005

> In what way has it improved your diabetes?

> Lower blood sugar? How much lower and how do you quantify it? Do

you take less " pills " than before switching to raw milk?

>

I have never been formally diagnosed...but i had excessive thirst and

peeing, and i had a glucometer to check my blood sugar.

(the last time i went to the doctor, however, in jan., he said i was

borderline... a little 'over'.)

i did atkins and exercised but i would still have nights where i

would have to get up to pee...telltale sign.

i started drinking raw milk and read dr. ron's book around the same

time. he talks about the 'milk cure' that was started at the Mayo

clinic (in the 1800's?). it was used, i believe, to cure

tuberculosis, sometimes diabetes, reduce high blood pressure, promote

wt. loss, and other things.

the milk cure was to just drink whole, raw milk all day long.

i tried it just to see what would happen; i couldn't tolerate that

much raw milk when i first started so i had mostly kefir, yogurt,

cheese, all raw.

i noticed immediately that on the days i stuck to raw dairy, and raw

dairy only, i didn't have to get up at night to pee. and this was

from previously having to get up every single night to pee without

fail, and sometimes more than once. so to wake up in the morning

instead of the middle of the night to pee every night...this was

amazing to me.

the book explains why raw milk is such a good cure; something about

milk resembling blood, and that the raw milk rebuilds your blood,

liver and kidneys.

since drinking raw milk, i also take soil organism pills (see prior

posts, do a search), coconut oil and i drink kombucha. the pills,

coc. oil and the kombucha are also supposed to help with blood

sugar/diabetes.

since taking the soil organisms i am now tolerant of milk! but it

also might be the coc. oil and the kombucha, too.

the thing is, i no longer maintain a strict low-carb diet...and my

exercise has been sporadic at best lately...and my blood sugars are

still normal. and no getting up every single night to pee like i

used to.

i drink a LOT of raw milk; as meal substitutes. i pretty much eat

one meal per day; the rest is raw dairy.

i have more energy, my skin looks better, i think *I* look better,

and i don't get ever get sick anymore.

i still have a major wt. problem but am working on the warrior diet

that heidi loves so much.

laura in nj

June 6, 2005

I must admit that I am in the same camp as when it comes to milk. I

have always believed that cow's milk is for CALVES not humans. There's hundreds

of people that survive just fine without it. I get annoyed hearing " but what

about the calcium? " ...where did the cow get it from, then?

I went on a sugar-free, grain-free, milk-free diet back in 2000 after being

diagnosed with PCOS (poly cystic ovaries). After being told 'low-carb " by the

GP and Specialist, I hit the internet and learned what I could and located a

book by a good doctor. She advocated against dairy. In her personal

experience, it was not good for you. (Gotta wonder now if she would feel the

same about raw milk). I'll have to find the book, but I'm pretty sure that she

was ok with soy milk and I took up soy then (and liked it too). I'm a bit

scared by that now and have ditched all soy from the cupboards. Anyway, once I

gave up milk I found that I didn't catch another cold. I was always pretty

healthy, but always got a cold after being caught in the rain. The lack of

colds and the clearing of my head was amazing to me. But, I hear you say...that

it could be because the milk was pasteurized...I don't think I'll ever know

unless I hunt down someone who has grass fed goats.

Now after eating whatever I liked for over 12 months I have finally gotten the

resolve to do it again properly. I just have a problem not having a 'treat'

food. And that's what yoghurt is to me. I also like to have a coffee when over

my friend's place - I think I could go without it, but have half decided that it

won't hurt me.

I think I will have to get the book that you have suggested to be persuaded

fully. Is there a similar book that would explain how grains (sprouted or

lacto-fermented) are ok, too? Obviously I haven't read Nourishing

Traditions....would that be the one to read? I am very interested in

lacto-fermenting. I have the kefir happening, will do some fruit juice

fermenting next, and would like to do sourdough after that even though I'm not

yet convinced it's any better for you. At least the family will be better fed

by home produced foods without all those additives. I'll be spending all my

time bottling and baking, lol.

Wow, I really haved digressed a bit....Yeah, I realise I am sort of on the wrong

list...I came here by accident, realised I'd joined a group who thought milk was

ok and had intended to renounce my membership but enjoyed the first few messages

that came through...so here I am...

Re: Raw Milk/Colds -

>

> And why do you think, , if that is what you think, that we

as

> grown-ups (well I suppose most of us are grown-ups) still need

> mother´s milk or a substitute?

>

> José

Dear , are you new to this group? are you familiar with

what this group is based on, the book Nourishing Traditions and the

Weston A. Price Foundation?

raw (animal) milk is a 'superfood' and has been used as a food by

humans for thousands of years and there are cultures for whom it is a

staple; the Masai in Africa, for one, and they are very healthy...

many people say drinking raw milk can do a body many wonderful

things...and i am living proof. not only is my immunity better than

its ever been in my life (haven't had a cold in over a year; unheard

of in my life) , but it has also improved my diabetes, something raw

milk has been known to do.

you ought to pick up a copy of the True Story of Milk by Dr. Ron

Schmid, a naturopath who uses raw milk to heal his patients of

various maladies.

you can also check out rawdairy, another group.

best to you.

laura

June 7, 2005

Hello :

I am not exactly new to the group. I was lurking, you know. This is

such an active list that you can hardly catch up with it.

I have got the book you mention myself. By Sally Fallon, you know.

While I will not dispute that raw dairy can be beneficial in many

cases, I have also read about the other side of the history: milk,

whether raw or not, is said to cause insidious problems to many

people. Indeed it is something I have read about, not something I

have experienced myself - I admit - so I don't have the right to

debase raw milk per se, but for just in case I would look at milk

with a grain of caution. The main point around milk consumption could

be this one: what about the long term? It could be a trade-off...

I don't use dairy myself, except a little butter, and I seem to be

all right off it. I don't mean to offend anyone, and I may be wrong

in the long run, but I just wonder if milk couldn't be a double-edged

tool or, just for the sake of colour, a white elephant?

Anyway, I will try to check the site you suggest.

Best wishes to you, too.

José

> >

> > And why do you think, , if that is what you think, that we

> as

> > grown-ups (well I suppose most of us are grown-ups) still need

> > mother´s milk or a substitute?

> >

> > José

>

> Dear , are you new to this group? are you familiar with

> what this group is based on, the book Nourishing Traditions and the

> Weston A. Price Foundation?

>

> raw (animal) milk is a 'superfood' and has been used as a food by

> humans for thousands of years and there are cultures for whom it is

a

> staple; the Masai in Africa, for one, and they are very healthy...

>

> many people say drinking raw milk can do a body many wonderful

> things...and i am living proof. not only is my immunity better

than

> its ever been in my life (haven't had a cold in over a year;

unheard

> of in my life) , but it has also improved my diabetes, something

raw

> milk has been known to do.

>

> you ought to pick up a copy of the True Story of Milk by Dr. Ron

> Schmid, a naturopath who uses raw milk to heal his patients of

> various maladies.

>

> you can also check out rawdairy, another group.

>

> best to you.

>

> laura

June 7, 2005

Hi :

That was a very empathic message. Excuse me for my mistakes in

English. I am from Brazil (South America).

I also feel like a sort of dissident here, simply because I can't

stand up for milk. Of course I sympathize a lot more with the

fermented sort. Well, I hope the other members will not ask me out

for not being in total agreement over milk.

Who can deny that milk is a very controversial subject? It is better

to use it with prudence and never make it into a staple food. (But I

may be wrong...)

José

> >

> > And why do you think, , if that is what you think, that

we

> as

> > grown-ups (well I suppose most of us are grown-ups) still need

> > mother´s milk or a substitute?

> >

> > José

>

> Dear , are you new to this group? are you familiar

with

> what this group is based on, the book Nourishing Traditions and

the

> Weston A. Price Foundation?

>

> raw (animal) milk is a 'superfood' and has been used as a food by

> humans for thousands of years and there are cultures for whom it

is a

> staple; the Masai in Africa, for one, and they are very healthy...

>

> many people say drinking raw milk can do a body many wonderful

> things...and i am living proof. not only is my immunity better

than

> its ever been in my life (haven't had a cold in over a year;

unheard

> of in my life) , but it has also improved my diabetes, something

raw

> milk has been known to do.

>

> you ought to pick up a copy of the True Story of Milk by Dr. Ron

> Schmid, a naturopath who uses raw milk to heal his patients of

> various maladies.

>

> you can also check out rawdairy, another group.

>

> best to you.

>

> laura

June 7, 2005

--- In , " " <harringtonwa@b...>

wrote:

> I must admit that I am in the same camp as when it

comes to milk. I have always believed that cow's milk is for CALVES

not humans. There's hundreds of people that survive just fine

without it. I get annoyed hearing " but what about the

calcium? " ...where did the cow get it from, then?

>

> I went on a sugar-free, grain-free, milk-free diet back in 2000

after being diagnosed with PCOS (poly cystic ovaries). After being

told 'low-carb " by the GP and Specialist, I hit the internet and

learned what I could and located a book by a good doctor. She

advocated against dairy. In her personal experience, it was not good

for you. (Gotta wonder now if she would feel the same about raw

milk). I'll have to find the book, but I'm pretty sure that she was

ok with soy milk and I took up soy then (and liked it too). I'm a

bit scared by that now and have ditched all soy from the cupboards.

Anyway, once I gave up milk I found that I didn't catch another

cold. I was always pretty healthy, but always got a cold after being

caught in the rain. The lack of colds and the clearing of my head

was amazing to me. But, I hear you say...that it could be because

the milk was pasteurized...I don't think I'll ever know unless I hunt

down someone who has grass fed goats.

>

> Now after eating whatever I liked for over 12 months I have finally

gotten the resolve to do it again properly. I just have a problem

not having a 'treat' food. And that's what yoghurt is to me. I also

like to have a coffee when over my friend's place - I think I could

go without it, but have half decided that it won't hurt me.

>

> I think I will have to get the book that you have suggested to be

persuaded fully. Is there a similar book that would explain how

grains (sprouted or lacto-fermented) are ok, too? Obviously I

haven't read Nourishing Traditions....would that be the one to

read? I am very interested in lacto-fermenting. I have the kefir

happening, will do some fruit juice fermenting next, and would like

to do sourdough after that even though I'm not yet convinced it's any

better for you. At least the family will be better fed by home

produced foods without all those additives. I'll be spending all my

time bottling and baking, lol.

>

> Wow, I really haved digressed a bit....Yeah, I realise I am sort of

on the wrong list...I came here by accident, realised I'd joined a

group who thought milk was ok and had intended to renounce my

membership but enjoyed the first few messages that came through...so

here I am...

>

Hi ,

it's amazing to me that the same food, in two different forms, can

either be harmful or healing. i think it's pretty well established,

at least in these circles, and of course it can be argued, that

pasteurized milk causes health problems but that raw milk can be a

wonderful source of nutrition and a healer of some or many disorders.

i used to be of the 'anti-milk' camp (like marilu henner) til i heard

sally speak and read her books, and the book by dr. ron, the Untold

Story of Milk. and i have my own testimony, of course.

now, having said that, it can also be said that raw milk is not for

everyone; some people have difficulty tolerating it.

but it is the opinion of some people that this is because of

digestive health; if you improve digestive health, such as with the

soil organisms, then you can tolerate milk better, as in my case.

the whole subject of soil organisms is fascinating to me...we are

supposed to have healthy bacteria living in our gut to help us digest

and to protect us from various ills.

anyway, it probably is not a good idea for people to put themselves

in a 'milk is evil' or 'milk is good' camp as each individual must

determine that for themselves. it's excellent for some people, and

not so good for others.

there are cultures who have lived for millenia on milk; and cultures

that have probably never touched the stuff and one's tolerance

probably has something to do with which camp one is genetically

derived from.

laura in nj

June 7, 2005

> Hi :

>

> That was a very empathic message. Excuse me for my mistakes in

> English. I am from Brazil (South America).

>

> I also feel like a sort of dissident here, simply because I can't

> stand up for milk. Of course I sympathize a lot more with the

> fermented sort. Well, I hope the other members will not ask me out

> for not being in total agreement over milk.

>

> Who can deny that milk is a very controversial subject? It is

better

> to use it with prudence and never make it into a staple food. (But

I

> may be wrong...)

>

> José

>

,

milk is probably like everything else; best left up to the

individual. there are anti-dairy groups who would just as soon see

milk banned...and like i mentioned, there are peoples on the earth,

who if you took away their milk, you would be taking away a huge part

of their diet.

if i want 2/3 of my daily calories to come from milk...and many days

it does...and i am in robust health with high immunity and my blood

sugars under control...who can argue with that?

'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.

it's upsetting to me when certain people or groups of people, (no one

here i know of) because of their own ideology, which may be false or

misguided, decide how others should live and impose that on them.

it's how wars get started.

just my own opinion.

laura in nj

June 7, 2005

>>>>>>>>>>>> some people have difficulty tolerating raw milk.

but it is the opinion of some people that this is because of

digestive health; if you improve digestive health, such as with the

soil organisms, then you can tolerate milk better, as in my case.

laura in nj >>>>>>>>

Hi , I used to think that improved digestive health would help me to

tolerate milk. I believed people like you who had success stories with milk,

especially raw or fermented milk. But many people, including me, happen to

be IgE allergic to the proteins in milk and shouldn't be encouraged to try

to find a way to make it work for them. Even if they find, through improved

digestion, that they can tolerate raw goat milk yogurt and kefir, for

example, those foods can be causing an inflammatory response on the inside.

I did as you recommend: I improved my digestion so I was able to tolerate

small amounts of fermented goat milk. The only problem is that, while I

showed no symptoms of allergy on the outside, I was tearing up my guts on

the inside. I am now paying the price for consuming milk products.

What I'm getting at is this idea of

digestive-health-improving-assimilation-of-allergic-foods; I really think we

need to be careful to recommend such a thing. A body has " trouble " with

certain foods for good reason and we need to listen carefully to that and

back off if need be. There are plenty of other foods out there that can fill

the gap.

If a person has " difficulty tolerating raw milk " as you suggest, even if

they don't have what most people consider to be allergy symptoms, I think

serious problems may be brewing inside. So get tested to rule out allergies

or stay off any form of milk. Don't push it.

One more thing: I agree with some of the other writers here that there is

maybe too strong an emphasis on so-called " super-food " raw milk products

here.

~Robin

June 7, 2005

Robin:

I appreciate your input. May I ask you if you are into paleo?

Are there paleos on this list?

José

> >>>>>>>>>>>> some people have difficulty tolerating raw milk.

> but it is the opinion of some people that this is because of

> digestive health; if you improve digestive health, such as with the

> soil organisms, then you can tolerate milk better, as in my case.

> laura in nj >>>>>>>>

>

> Hi , I used to think that improved digestive health would help

me to

> tolerate milk. I believed people like you who had success stories

with milk,

> especially raw or fermented milk. But many people, including me,

happen to

> be IgE allergic to the proteins in milk and shouldn't be encouraged

to try

> to find a way to make it work for them. Even if they find, through

improved

> digestion, that they can tolerate raw goat milk yogurt and kefir,

for

> example, those foods can be causing an inflammatory response on the

inside.

>

> I did as you recommend: I improved my digestion so I was able to

tolerate

> small amounts of fermented goat milk. The only problem is that,

while I

> showed no symptoms of allergy on the outside, I was tearing up my

guts on

> the inside. I am now paying the price for consuming milk products.

>

> What I'm getting at is this idea of

> digestive-health-improving-assimilation-of-allergic-foods; I really

think we

> need to be careful to recommend such a thing. A body has " trouble "

with

> certain foods for good reason and we need to listen carefully to

that and

> back off if need be. There are plenty of other foods out there that

can fill

> the gap.

>

> If a person has " difficulty tolerating raw milk " as you suggest,

even if

> they don't have what most people consider to be allergy symptoms, I

think

> serious problems may be brewing inside. So get tested to rule out

allergies

> or stay off any form of milk. Don't push it.

>

> One more thing: I agree with some of the other writers here that

there is

> maybe too strong an emphasis on so-called " super-food " raw milk

products

> here.

>

> ~Robin

June 7, 2005

> > Hi :

> >

> > That was a very empathic message. Excuse me for my mistakes in

> > English. I am from Brazil (South America).

> >

> > I also feel like a sort of dissident here, simply because I can't

> > stand up for milk. Of course I sympathize a lot more with the

> > fermented sort. Well, I hope the other members will not ask me

out

> > for not being in total agreement over milk.

> >

> > Who can deny that milk is a very controversial subject? It is

> better

> > to use it with prudence and never make it into a staple food.

(But

> I

> > may be wrong...)

> >

> > José

> >

> ,

>

> milk is probably like everything else; best left up to the

> individual. there are anti-dairy groups who would just as soon see

> milk banned...and like i mentioned, there are peoples on the earth,

> who if you took away their milk, you would be taking away a huge

part

> of their diet.

>

> if i want 2/3 of my daily calories to come from milk...and many

days

> it does...and i am in robust health with high immunity and my blood

> sugars under control...who can argue with that?

>

> 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'.

>

> it's upsetting to me when certain people or groups of people, (no

one

> here i know of) because of their own ideology, which may be false

or

> misguided, decide how others should live and impose that on them.

> it's how wars get started.

>

> just my own opinion.

>

> laura in nj

Yes, , this is very true. I think you have an English saying

like this: " one person's meat is another person's poison " . (I

substituted person for man in order not to sound too sexist!) And

this seems truer when it comes to nutrition: most people think they

have found the ultimate solution and want to impose it to others,

while there are only a few common truths in this field: parsimony

(eat moderately or little, if you can), organicity (try to avoid too

processed foods) and variation (have a varied diet, not emphasizing

one single ingredient, whether meat, dairy or fruit). If you do that,

you will not make many mistakes, anyway.

José

June 7, 2005

,

I am curious about your hemp-eating. I had looked into it about a

year ago thinking it would be a good sub for my milk-allergic son,

only to find Sally stating that hemp was not good for human

consumption. Not sure where I read it now, I think on their website.

Anyone else heard this??

T.

>

> Hi ,

>

> To answer your question, yes, raw goat's milk is one of the best

to drink or cook with. Goat's milk is the closest to real human

mothers milk - to me it's just logical to use goat's milk if you

decide to drink milk over cow's milk.

>

> It depends on your metabolic type if you should drink dairy as an

adult. I for one do not drink it, however, many people do great on

raw milk. I use raw milk to make butter and other stuff – I love

eating raw organic cheese.

>

> Also, if you're not into diary or milk you can make milk with

nuts. I still make hemp milk [4tbs of hemp seeds and 1 cup of

water] and add a little bit of organic Agave for sweetness. You can

also use other nuts to make nut milk. I have found cashews and hemp

seeds to be the best.

>

> FYI: Hemp Seeds can be purchased at Harry's or Whole Foods –

Nutiva Brand. They are incredible in regard to nutrition – hemp

seeds have the proper ratio of the omegas and good source of

protein. I absolutely love hemp seeds and use them in salads and

all kinds of dishes.

>

> In sum, it depends of many factors if milk will work for you. If

you do decide to drink milk though, make sure it is raw organic

milk, period!

>

> ---------------------------------

> Discover

> Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

>

June 7, 2005

Hi :

Thanks for your message. Well, I am very sceptical about milk and I

don't like the taste of milk anyway. I said in a previous post that I

didn't use dairy, but to be honest I do eat some cheese now and then,

maybe once a month, like a treat. I like cheese better, but I think I

can live without it. I can also use a spoonful of chantilly cream in

my coffee and eat some dark chocolate as a dessert occasionally.

I know you can make " milk " out of nuts. I think almonds make the

best " milk " . But I was not aware about the possibility of using hemp.

You mean marihuana? I don't know the difference between both things.

(English is not my first language, you see.)

Cheers,

José

>

> Hi ,

>

> To answer your question, yes, raw goat's milk is one of the best to

drink or cook with. Goat's milk is the closest to real human mothers

milk - to me it's just logical to use goat's milk if you decide to

drink milk over cow's milk.

>

> It depends on your metabolic type if you should drink dairy as an

adult. I for one do not drink it, however, many people do great on

raw milk. I use raw milk to make butter and other stuff – I love

eating raw organic cheese.

>

> Also, if you're not into diary or milk you can make milk with

nuts. I still make hemp milk [4tbs of hemp seeds and 1 cup of water]

and add a little bit of organic Agave for sweetness. You can also

use other nuts to make nut milk. I have found cashews and hemp seeds

to be the best.

>

> FYI: Hemp Seeds can be purchased at Harry's or Whole Foods – Nutiva

Brand. They are incredible in regard to nutrition – hemp seeds have

the proper ratio of the omegas and good source of protein. I

absolutely love hemp seeds and use them in salads and all kinds of

dishes.

>

> In sum, it depends of many factors if milk will work for you. If

you do decide to drink milk though, make sure it is raw organic milk,

period!

>

June 7, 2005

>Robin:

>

>I appreciate your input. May I ask you if you are into paleo?

>

>Are there paleos on this list?

>

>José

>

Hi José,

Paleolithic eating is close to the mark for me. I consume no grains

ever and stay pretty clear of dairy and legumes. However, I do like a

bit of cheese and sour cream on occasion. And I also find now that I am

running 5 days a week that beans properly soaked/sprouted/fermented

before cooking are digested fine without issue. Rigidity can be

unhealthy in eating and life, so I try to be reasonable with it. If

serious problems arise with a food, then that is the time to be rigid, imo.

I agree with your perspective on dairy basically. I think we have to

look at ancestry and experiment to see what works well for us on an

individual basis. I really do better without the dairy, but I also

don't have too much of any reaction when I indulge once a month to a

week in it. I drink no milk but that which comes from almonds and

coconut. :-)

Raw, pasture raised milk is far superior to the stuff sold at the

market. It may well have a place in the diet of healthy people, but for

me, it is too difficult to obtain and I have a casein (milk protein)

intolerant child. So I go without the flow of it in my life,

basically. Perhaps if I raised my own goats or cows I might be more

willing. But since I only raise chickens, I only have eggs, lol.

Deanna

Ft. Worth, TX Chapter Leader, Weston A. Price Foundation

http://www.salvonix.com/WAP/

June 7, 2005

Hi Deanna:

Yes, I know some paleos who are very rigid and think of grains as if

they were like arsenic. There are some who will try to eat everything

raw. Aren't they overdoing it?

In general I agree with the paleo approach, but following it strictly

puts you out of context. We are no longer hunterers and gatherers. We

may not do well with all that meat and no carbs at all. And it is

anti-social. In order to stick with paleo, you have to become a

hermit, a recluse.

If you skip milk; if you try to eat with moderation the whole

spectrum of carbs (from grains to tubers and legumes, without

concentrating on any category) and if you avoid junk food, that is in

my opinion a most respectable paleo approach.

José

--- In , Deanna Wagner <hl@s...>

wrote:

>

> >Robin:

> >

> >I appreciate your input. May I ask you if you are into paleo?

> >

> >Are there paleos on this list?

> >

> >José

> >

> Hi José,

>

> Paleolithic eating is close to the mark for me. I consume no

grains

> ever and stay pretty clear of dairy and legumes. However, I do

like a

> bit of cheese and sour cream on occasion. And I also find now that

I am

> running 5 days a week that beans properly soaked/sprouted/fermented

> before cooking are digested fine without issue. Rigidity can be

> unhealthy in eating and life, so I try to be reasonable with it.

If

> serious problems arise with a food, then that is the time to be

rigid, imo.

>

> I agree with your perspective on dairy basically. I think we have

to

> look at ancestry and experiment to see what works well for us on an

> individual basis. I really do better without the dairy, but I also

> don't have too much of any reaction when I indulge once a month to

a

> week in it. I drink no milk but that which comes from almonds and

> coconut. :-)

>

> Raw, pasture raised milk is far superior to the stuff sold at the

> market. It may well have a place in the diet of healthy people,

but for

> me, it is too difficult to obtain and I have a casein (milk

protein)

> intolerant child. So I go without the flow of it in my life,

> basically. Perhaps if I raised my own goats or cows I might be

more

> willing. But since I only raise chickens, I only have eggs, lol.

>

> Deanna

> Ft. Worth, TX Chapter Leader, Weston A. Price Foundation

> http://www.salvonix.com/WAP/

>

June 7, 2005

> >>>>>>>>>>>> some people have difficulty tolerating raw milk.

> but it is the opinion of some people that this is because of

> digestive health; if you improve digestive health, such as with the

> soil organisms, then you can tolerate milk better, as in my case.

> laura in nj >>>>>>>>

>

> Hi , I used to think that improved digestive health would help

me to

> tolerate milk. I believed people like you who had success stories

with milk,

> especially raw or fermented milk. But many people, including me,

happen to

> be IgE allergic to the proteins in milk and shouldn't be encouraged

to try

> to find a way to make it work for them. Even if they find, through

improved

> digestion, that they can tolerate raw goat milk yogurt and kefir,

for

> example, those foods can be causing an inflammatory response on the

inside.

>

> I did as you recommend: I improved my digestion so I was able to

tolerate

> small amounts of fermented goat milk. The only problem is that,

while I

> showed no symptoms of allergy on the outside, I was tearing up my

guts on

> the inside. I am now paying the price for consuming milk products.

>

> What I'm getting at is this idea of

> digestive-health-improving-assimilation-of-allergic-foods; I really

think we

> need to be careful to recommend such a thing. A body has " trouble "

with

> certain foods for good reason and we need to listen carefully to

that and

> back off if need be. There are plenty of other foods out there that

can fill

> the gap.

>

> If a person has " difficulty tolerating raw milk " as you suggest,

even if

> they don't have what most people consider to be allergy symptoms, I

think

> serious problems may be brewing inside. So get tested to rule out

allergies

> or stay off any form of milk. Don't push it.

>

> One more thing: I agree with some of the other writers here that

there is

> maybe too strong an emphasis on so-called " super-food " raw milk

products

> here.

>

> ~Robin

Hi Robin, maybe you are right, but i'm going to stay with what i

believe til it's disproved.

i've read a lot about soil organisms and how we're supposed to have

them living in us, and we really don't (or not as much as we should),

and these organisms (beneficial bacteria) are supposed to digest food

for us, and help clear up allergies, and other stuff.

you're supposed to take them for a full six months...it takes that

long for them to become established and do what they're supposed to

do.

here, all sorts of sensitivities to foods are discussed...and ever

since i have read about these soil organisms, i'm kinda obsessed with

them...it's pretty universal in our nation that we're deficient in

them, and this deficiency is supposed to cause all sorts of problems,

like allergies, lowered immunities and food intolerances.

i've come to the conclusion that maybe this is the missing

link...SOMETHING is missing. a lot of us come to WAPF looking for

health and healing but find instead that we are intolerant to so many

of these new foods. maybe because we're not used to them...maybe

because they are cleaning us out and so we don't recognize the

healing crises...or maybe because our guts simply don't have what

they're supposed to have (enough beneficial organisms) to deal with

the food.

i may be naive here...i may be overly idealistic...but what if there

is something to this?

i haven't been taking these soil organism pills for 6 mo. yet and i

haven't been taking them faithfully, anyway. (one example: Primal

Defense by garden of life. i just bought a diff. kind also)

but a year from now, if i've given it a good shot, and there's no

significant difference in my health or how i tolerate certain foods,

then i'll give up and say it's bunch of bunk.

i've gotten my hopes up before only to be proved wrong and become

disillusioned.

but i really think there might be something to this, and so i'm

giving it my all, at least thru the rest of the year. at least til

this current pet theory of mine is disproved.

about food intolerances...a wapf friend and i talk about this a lot.

if you're not the picture of health, and you've never really drank

milk in your life, and you hear about raw milk and start drinking it

when you're 50...it would almost seem surprising to tolerate it well,

don't you think?

we were saying that probably the foods you grew up on are the ones

you tolerate the best.

now, i grew up on wonder bread, skippy peanut butter, welch's grape

jelly, wise potato chips, soda, lots of sweets, and nestle's quick in

past. milk.

when i ended up in the hosp. at age 19 from a mental breakdown and

severe depression, and started reading about nutrition, i got

angry...WHY don't we know, why didn't i know that good nutrition

probably would have prevented my hospitalization???

from that point i tried to start eating healthy, and it took me the

next 25-30 years to successfully get my diet reasonably clean.

in my 20's, whenever i tried to eat healthy (salads, vegetables,

meats, etc. instead of a constant diet of junk food) i felt really

LOUSY. now this went on for decades. but finally after many, many

years of trying, i managed to get to the reverse: feeling lousy when

i ate unhealthy foods.

so my friend had read something and we wondered...is it possible, if

you grow up on junk food, every day, that your body somehow gets used

to it and thrives on it somewhat, even if it is causing degerative

disease? i felt good on junk food...despite what it was doing to me.

apparently i tolerated junk food better than real, healthy foods,

because i grew up on a lot of junk food.

i don't know...

laura in nj

June 7, 2005

>i haven't been taking these soil organism pills for 6 mo. yet and i

>haven't been taking them faithfully, anyway. (one example: Primal

>Defense by garden of life. i just bought a diff. kind also)

>

>but a year from now, if i've given it a good shot, and there's no

>significant difference in my health or how i tolerate certain foods,

>then i'll give up and say it's bunch of bunk.

>

>i've gotten my hopes up before only to be proved wrong and become

>disillusioned.

>

>but i really think there might be something to this, and so i'm

>giving it my all, at least thru the rest of the year. at least til

>this current pet theory of mine is disproved.

>

,

Why take pills like Primal Defense when you can have lacto bacteria

(soil organisms) growing in your lacto fermented salsa, kimchi and

sauerkraut, reaping the benefits much cheaper and livelier from your own

batch of real food at one tenth the price in many cases AND with the

local strains that proliferate in your area? There is a strain of

bacteria in PD that is questionable too, did you know? The strain of

bacteria is Bacillus licheniformis, which, last I checked, is in GoL

Primal Defense. Here is one article, but there is much discussion on it

in the archives of this list:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2561629.stm

Try this search for archives, it's better than 's:

http://onibasu.com/

Deanna

June 7, 2005

Deanna,

I think I will be heading pretty close to what you are doing. No grains seems

to be the way for me. I will try the sourdough and sprouted grains, but I think

that I'll probably stick to the 'meat and veggies' that has served me well in

the past, with a bit of yoghurt and kefir thrown in. Maybe the sourdough will

be a rare treat...does it taste sour?