RE: Re: Vaccinations: Where do I begin?

June 1, 2005

Lauri -

Please share more about your attitude about the Waldorf preschool. I am

contemplating one for my son.

Please email off-list if you don't mind.

Thanks,

Nanette

Re: Vaccinations: Where do I begin?

,

We vaccinated our kids and have had no problems, ideologically nor

physically. My dd does have food allergies, like me, but if this is

due to vaccines, then why her and not my ds? They were both given

shots at the same time and by the same doctor/clinic. We did the

polio, DPT and MMR only although the school district requires others

(we homeschool). I have kept up with my vaccines, even got a tetnus

booster recently with no side effects.

There have been many outbreaks of whooping cough and cases of polio

are on the rise. Measles is always a problem here as we live in a

city with a large major university that attracts many international

unvaccinated students. One outbreak of whooping cough occured at a

Waldorf daycare (I refuse to call them pre-schools). One person got

ahold of a shot record, whited out the name, made copies and

everyone filled in their child's name. The director knew what was

going on. Then someone got whooping cough, then more and more. One

child almost died, another's sibling did die and more than 20 were

hospitalized. That's when the health department stepped in and

discovered what was up.

I wouldn't have wanted to take the chance on my child dying when I

can prevent it.

You can ask your pediatrician to spread the doses out. I know

several people locally who have had the vaccines spread out over 3

years rather than several months. My dd didn't start her vaccines

until she was almost 6 months old (by then, most babies have had at

least 2 rounds). My son's weren't on time either because I would

wait until I wanted her shots and then schedule both at the same

time.

We did NOT do the chicken pox vaccine and both of my kids have had

it as well as Fifth Disease and we are all fine. I did have rubella

as a child, but my food allergies were in place long before that and

not affected by a subsequent vaccine for measles and mumps.

Most of the literature I have seen is old, dates from the early

1970s. As recently as 3 years ago, some one was passing around a

packet at a local homeschool function and none of it was current;

the most recent was dated 1986. I wouldn't know where to direct you

for good info.

And, FWIW, my ds had a circumcision. No problems there either. I was

told he made a face, but didn't cry (I was bedridden and unable to

attend the bris).

Lauri

> As many of you know, I'm having a baby in December. Naturally, I

need

> some really well-researched and balanced information about

> vaccinations. I'm not sure what to do, really. I know there are

> major problems with vaccines, but everyone I know is vaccinated

> (including myself) and we all seem fine. Does anyone on this list

> feel that some vaccines are beneficial? Would you vaccinate

again, if

> given the choice? I'll be living in CA and I think the law is

> relatively flexible there, but any state-specific info would be

great.

> FYI--I will not be homeschooling.

>

> To put it all in context, I'm still discussing homebirth and

> circumcision with my husband. I think he's almost on board with

those

> two issues (he's Jewish, so the circ. issue is complicated). I

> haven't even mentioned vaccinations to him yet, so I want to get

> educated myself before I go completely off the deep end...tee hee.

>

> TIA,

>

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June 1, 2005

On 6/1/05, rayman78708 <polunsky@...> wrote:

>

> I wouldn't have wanted to take the chance on my child dying when I

> can prevent it.

This is totally your choice (and on the surface it's a reasonable

concern) but I just want to interject that you are also taking chances

with vaccines. Many babies have died as a result of their

vaccinations.

Kind regards,

June 2, 2005

>But to the anti-vaccine folks I

>say: when's the last time you saw a case of polio?

>

>--

> Quick, USUM (ret.)

One of the problems is that history isn't

very well-taught, IMO. I mean, in school I learned

a lot about kings and battles, but not much about

health conditions and food ... which often WERE

what turned the battles (re: Guns Germs and Steel!).

So most people today don't KNOW what polio

was all about, and didn't have to live with a little

sister who would not walk for the rest of her

life because of one illness, or watch their

playmate die from measles (still the biggest

killer of young children, it seems?).

Those who do not learn from history are

doomed to repeat it ...

You are right, , modern science is

VERY empirical and those researchers

are generally obsessively exact. The fact

they go down the wrong track sometimes

is often BECAUSE they are obsessively exact (too

narrowly focused).

Heidi Jean

June 2, 2005

Re: Vaccinations: Where do I begin?

....One can argue about whether that " work " creates other problems, or whether

there's a problem with vaccine preservatives, or the proper age to vaccinate. we

might not being doing things the best possible way. But to the anti-vaccine

folks I say: when's the last time you saw a case of polio?

=================================

As discussed in The Handbook of Rife Frequency Healing:

------beginning of excerpt------

In a 1994 edition of Townsend Letter for Doctors, nutritional biochemist A. Van

Beveren writes that because " in nearly every state where the Salk vaccine was

administered the polio rate leaped by 400-600%, " what was then the Public

Health Service responded by issuing " new guidelines for the diagnosis of the

disease. "

" From statistics we note that polio ceased to be a big problem almost

immediately [after inoculation] but that suddenly aseptic or viral meningitis

(sometimes spinal meningitis or multiple sclerosis) were seen in epidemic

proportions in approximately the same number that polio was diagnosed in prior

years. . . . In Archives of Pediatrics (1950), Dr. Ralph Scoby lists not less

than 170 diseases with " polio-like symptoms and effects, but with different

names. . . . Little mention is made of the fact that polio disappeared in Europe

without mass immunization, and of the 25 or so cases of polio that have turned

up in the past few years, virtually all were vaccine-induced. " [ A. Van Beveren,

" Are Vaccines Generally Detrimental to the Human Defense System? " Townsend

Letter for Doctors 127-8 (1994): 196.]

------end of excerpt------

Nenah Sylver, PhD

http://www.nenahsylver.com

* The Handbook of Rife Frequency Healing

* The Holistic Handbook of Sauna Therapy

* products and services for wellness

June 2, 2005

>> I find it pretty bizarre that some people here have been arguing that

vaccination doesn't work. Whatever else one says about modern

medicine, it's empirically based. <<

This is true, but the problem is that in humans (unlike animals), we can't

actually test the efficacy of vaccines by challenge with the disease,

because it would be unethical. So we're left with epidemiology, which is not

as clearcut because there are so many confounding factors. Mass vaccination

programs almost always are accompanied by other interventions, social

changes, etc. and it's not always the vaccine that was responsible for the

reduction in the disease.

A reverse example of this was the loony claim a decade or so ago that

childhood vaccines caused AIDS. The epidemiological evidence for this was

that you could track HIV infection and correlate it with childhood

immunization programs in Africa.

Well, you could. Absolutely. The problem is, it wasn't the vaccines

" causing " HIV, it was the needles SPREADING HIV, because some of these

programs were not using disposable needles for each child.

The polio vaccine has an interesting history and it's not as clearcut as its

proponents sometimes make it sound. Sometimes the polio vaccine has been the

CAUSE of polio, not the prevention, and there are other factors that have

had more effect on the spread of polio than the vaccine ever has. (We

determine this by comparing areas where the vaccine was introduced

substantially later than other areas.)

However, I was the main one arguing that we can't contend vaccination

doesn't work, because we can clearly demonstrate efficacy rates for various

vaccines *in animals*. Still, the fact is, not all vaccines in all species

for all pathogens work equally well - and some of them don't work at all! In

animals and humans, I believe we have to look at each vaccine, each

individual, and each disease and craft an individualized vaccination

protocol. The main problem I have at this time with vaccination is, in fact,

the UNscientific protocols that are currently being used, the " one size fits

all " stuff that one day we're going to look back on and say " What on EARTH

were we thinking? "

I want more, not less, science to come into play here.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

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