Re: Janda situps -- any point in continuing?

[Guest guest]

,

>The other ab/back-related exercises I've added to my routine, by contrast --

the Russian Ballet leg thrust and the wheel jacknife -- are much tougher and

also offer plenty of room for further improvement.

>

I'd love to offer advice, but I'll need to see a photo of you doing this

Russian ballet leg thrust first <weg>. Basically, if something seems

ineffective it probably is. You should be changing up your workout

components every 6-8 weeks anyway. I'd drop the Jandas for that time,

replace with something comparable, and take them up again later.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>I'd love to offer advice, but I'll need to see a photo of you doing this

>Russian ballet leg thrust first <weg>.

Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid, but it's intense. You can see pictures of

Pavel demonstrating on pp31-33 of BPA if that'll satisfy your curiosity.

>Basically, if something seems

>ineffective it probably is. You should be changing up your workout

>components every 6-8 weeks anyway. I'd drop the Jandas for that time,

>replace with something comparable, and take them up again later.

I'm not really sure why they'd get harder and thus worth doing again in 6-8

weeks, though, unless they're actually contributing something I benefit

from that I'm not getting from the RBLTs and WJs or anything else I might

replace the Jandas with. Am I missing something?

-

[Guest guest]

,

>>I'd love to offer advice, but I'll need to see a photo of you doing this

>>Russian ballet leg thrust first <weg>.

>>

>>

>Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid, but it's intense. You can see pictures of

>Pavel demonstrating on pp31-33 of BPA if that'll satisfy your curiosity.

>

>

No, it sounds lovely, but I want to see the NN Listgod version, if you

please. ;-)

>I'm not really sure why they'd get harder and thus worth doing again in 6-8

>weeks, though, unless they're actually contributing something I benefit

>from that I'm not getting from the RBLTs and WJs or anything else I might

>replace the Jandas with. Am I missing something?

>

I dunno.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> To make a long story short, my workouts have gotten ridiculously long, and

> if I'm not actually getting any benefit from something, I'd like to drop it

> to try to shave off some time. I know that in the first months of doing

> them, Jandas were productive -- I was able to load more and more weight

> onto the Pavelizer and do more and more situps. But I reached the max

> weight (45#) a long time ago, and I've been knocking off ten sets of five

> Jandas per workout without any real trouble. The other ab/back-related

> exercises I've added to my routine, by contrast -- the Russian Ballet leg

> thrust and the wheel jacknife -- are much tougher and also offer plenty of

> room for further improvement. And of course Tsatsouline's book offers

> plenty of additional exercise ideas. Should I just cut the Jandas, or is

> there some meaningful benefit from sticking with them that I'm just not

> aware of? And if I do cut them, should I replace them with something else

> and give up on the idea of recovering a tiny bit of my life?

>

> Advice appreciated,

>

>

>

> -

I vaguely remember an old thread on Dragondoor which raised the subject of

jandas becoming too easy. (I should mention that I've never done them

myself)...what I vaguely recall is that the eventual resolution was that the

person was not really doing them correctly. Once he did, they became a lot

harder. Since I've never been that interested in Jandas, and the thread is

probably over a year old, my memory might be faulty. But you might try searching

on their list, or seeing if any of the articles at their site talk about it.

Then again, you might just be superhuman.

Perhaps I've missed your posts on this, but how is the kettlebell training

going. I remember the posts about which kettlebell(s) to buy, and what exercises

to do, but I don't remember what actually happened with it. the way that I've

shortened my workouts is to devote them mostly to kettlebells, using kind of a

cross between short interval training, and more high rep ballistic training (to

get higher jerk/snatch numbers). There are some dragondoor related people who

really have mastered the art of short, intense workouts (e.g. Steve Maxwell).

But our goals are probably very different....

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>I vaguely remember an old thread on Dragondoor which raised the subject of

>jandas becoming too easy. (I should mention that I've never done them

>myself)...what I vaguely recall is that the eventual resolution was that

>the person was not really doing them correctly. Once he did, they became a

>lot harder.

I guess I'll have to look into it, though I try to pay close attention to

my form.

>Then again, you might just be superhuman.

Yeah, that's got to be it.

>Perhaps I've missed your posts on this, but how is the kettlebell training

>going. I remember the posts about which kettlebell(s) to buy, and what

>exercises to do, but I don't remember what actually happened with it. the

>way that I've shortened my workouts is to devote them mostly to

>kettlebells, using kind of a cross between short interval training, and

>more high rep ballistic training (to get higher jerk/snatch numbers).

>There are some dragondoor related people who really have mastered the art

>of short, intense workouts (e.g. Steve Maxwell).

The kettlebell wound up being a bust for the time being. Even just

swinging caused more shoulder damage than chondroitin could keep up with,

even though the weight of the bell wasn't a problem otherwise. I think I'm

going to sell this bell and get an adjustable one, because I seem to be

building up my connective tissue slowly through pushups and then more

recently pullups, which chondroitin can apparently keep up with, so sooner

or later I'm guessing I'll be able to incorporate kettlebells on a more

permanent basis. Or so I hope.

>But our goals are probably very different....

I suppose so, since I don't wholly abjure vanity as you seem to. But the

various ab-related exercises I'm doing are meant to strengthen my back,

since I've had plenty of back problems in the past, and I'm most interested

in fitness and constitution. The work I want to do is extremely demanding

(nonphysical, but 36-hour days and 12-day weeks for a good part of a year)

so I need to be in the best conceivable shape... but if I manage to get

that work, I'm not going to have time for the interminable workouts I'm

doing now, so I'd like to figure out how to accomplish what I need to in

the shortest possible time.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> >Perhaps I've missed your posts on this, but how is the kettlebell training

> >going. I remember the posts about which kettlebell(s) to buy, and what

> >exercises to do, but I don't remember what actually happened with it. the

> >way that I've shortened my workouts is to devote them mostly to

> >kettlebells, using kind of a cross between short interval training, and

> >more high rep ballistic training (to get higher jerk/snatch numbers).

> >There are some dragondoor related people who really have mastered the art

> >of short, intense workouts (e.g. Steve Maxwell).

>

> The kettlebell wound up being a bust for the time being. Even just

> swinging caused more shoulder damage than chondroitin could keep up with,

> even though the weight of the bell wasn't a problem otherwise.

hmm - even with 2 arm swings? You're a big guy and I wouldn't think that 2 arm

swings with a 53 pound kettlebell (that's the weight I recall) would hurt your

shoulders. but, of course, my guessing and reality are 2 different things. In

any case, I've found I have to be a bit careful with one arm swings and snatches

as far as my shoulder, but I'm finding 2 arm swings to be extremely safe - even

though I've been doing them with the 72 and 88 lb kettlebells (and I'm just a

5'6 " runt).

> I think I'm

> going to sell this bell and get an adjustable one, because I seem to be

> building up my connective tissue slowly through pushups and then more

> recently pullups, which chondroitin can apparently keep up with, so sooner

> or later I'm guessing I'll be able to incorporate kettlebells on a more

> permanent basis. Or so I hope.

I'm going to get one of the adjustable ones from uskettlebells.com (I think

that's it - I can research it if you want). That seems to be the best of the

adjustable ones. You really don't want to get one of the adjustable ones where

the shape of the kettlebell isn't round.

>

> >But our goals are probably very different....

>

> I suppose so, since I don't wholly abjure vanity as you seem to.

I don't as much abjure it, as deny it

>But the

> various ab-related exercises I'm doing are meant to strengthen my back,

> since I've had plenty of back problems in the past, and I'm most interested

> in fitness and constitution.

I had severe lower back problems for years. Kettlebells have cured that. The

most effective exercise seems to be swings - I tend to do mostly 2 arm swings,

simply because with my emphasis on the snatch, my callouses tend to get a bit

balky....and also occasionally I have to watch my shoulders.

>The work I want to do is extremely demanding

> (nonphysical, but 36-hour days and 12-day weeks for a good part of a year)

> so I need to be in the best conceivable shape... but if I manage to get

> that work, I'm not going to have time for the interminable workouts I'm

> doing now, so I'd like to figure out how to accomplish what I need to in

> the shortest possible time.

>

>

I get some pretty incredible workouts (at least for me) in a short time. For

instance - taking the 72 or 88 pound kettlebell and doing sets (say, with the

72) of 40, 30, 25, 25 in 10 minutes is a pretty strenuous workout. I'll usually

find some other exercise to do, say for 10 minutes. I do tend to vary the

formula a bit - I'm thinking of trying 20 minutes of 2 kettlebell jerks

tonight. then I might do a few varied strength exercises - maybe some presses

and front squats, and doing a farmer's walk with 2 88 lb kettlebells across my

apartment a few times. It should all come in in about 30 minutes. I'll also

usually do a few quick things in the morning before I go to work, as I pass by

the kettlebells - maybe some swings, maybe some squats, etc, taking up maybe 3-5

minutes at most.

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>hmm - even with 2 arm swings? You're a big guy and I wouldn't think that 2

>arm swings with a 53 pound kettlebell (that's the weight I recall) would

>hurt your shoulders.

Worse yet, it was a 44# bell, but I got bitten by a tick when I was 11, and

ever since then, Lyme disease has cursed me with serious connective tissue

problems.

>I'm going to get one of the adjustable ones from uskettlebells.com (I

>think that's it - I can research it if you want). That seems to be the

>best of the adjustable ones. You really don't want to get one of the

>adjustable ones where the shape of the kettlebell isn't round.

Yeah, they're the company I'm looking at. I just haven't taken the plunge yet.

>I had severe lower back problems for years. Kettlebells have cured that.

>The most effective exercise seems to be swings - I tend to do mostly 2 arm

>swings, simply because with my emphasis on the snatch, my callouses tend

>to get a bit balky....and also occasionally I have to watch my shoulders.

Huh. I didn't notice any difference when I was doing bell swings, but then

again my ab work has generally seemed to cut down on the back

problems. OTOH, when I added pullups, for some reason that brought it back

in spades for a little while. And standing for long stretches of time

still bothers me a lot, though not walking.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> >I had severe lower back problems for years. Kettlebells have cured that.

> >The most effective exercise seems to be swings - I tend to do mostly 2 arm

> >swings, simply because with my emphasis on the snatch, my callouses tend

> >to get a bit balky....and also occasionally I have to watch my shoulders.

>

> Huh. I didn't notice any difference when I was doing bell swings, but then

> again my ab work has generally seemed to cut down on the back

> problems. OTOH, when I added pullups, for some reason that brought it back

> in spades for a little while. And standing for long stretches of time

> still bothers me a lot, though not walking.

>

I never found that ab work had much of an effect for me. But I have found that a

more direct strengthening of the back muscles does have a dramatic effect. I did

read an article once by one of the famous old time strong men (whose name I

forget) who recommended a routine with kb one armed swings, where you changed

hands after every swing. Personally, I've found all of the variations to be of

great benefit to my back, though, probably it's really a combination of all of

the exercises which have strengthened those muscles as well as my abdominals. I

also find that sleeping upside down helps.

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>I never found that ab work had much of an effect for me. But I have found

>that a more direct strengthening of the back muscles does have a dramatic

>effect. I did read an article once by one of the famous old time strong

>men (whose name I forget) who recommended a routine with kb one armed

>swings, where you changed hands after every swing. Personally, I've found

>all of the variations to be of great benefit to my back, though, probably

>it's really a combination of all of the exercises which have strengthened

>those muscles as well as my abdominals. I also find that sleeping upside

>down helps.

Well, when I do go back to kettlebell work (I certainly plan to, but it's

going to take a lot of connective tissue work first) I'll be sure to try that.

What do you mean by sleeping upside down, though?

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