Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

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----------------------------

>

>>

>> > The WAPF stopped recommeding Carlson's several months ago due to

>the low

>> > vitamin A content.

>>

>> I bought a bottle of Carlson's towards the end of last year, and I

>was

>> flabbergasted when I got home and looked to see it only had about

>1100

>> IU/tsp. I had just assumed it had typical vitamin A content. That

>> was the last time I so much as looked at a Carlson's bottle.

>Garden

>> of Life is becoming widely available in stores, so I mail order

>Blue

>> Ice or RL, and in a jam where I need it on demand I pick up some

>GOL

>> from a store.

>>

>> Chris

>

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May 30, 2005

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

>> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

----------------------------

> Re: Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain

>Synthetic

>> >Vitamins

>> >

>> >There's another question here. Carlson's is recommended by

>Mercola

>> >(who I'm suspicious of because he's always selling you

>something), as

>> >well as by WAPF. What is/was the basis for that recommendation?

>>

>> ,

>>

>> The WAPF stopped recommeding Carlson's several months ago due to

>the low

>> vitamin A content.

>>

>> Suze Fisher

>> Lapdog Design, Inc.

>> Web Design & Development

>> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

>> http://www.westonaprice.org

>>

>> ----------------------------

>> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

>cause

>> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

>times. " --

>> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

>Vanderbilt

>> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>>

>> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

>> <http://www.thincs.org>

>> ----------------------------

>

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May 30, 2005

> Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

>Vitamins

>

>The Westin A Price foundation also now recommends Garden of Lifes'

>cod liver oil and, what a surprise, of of their board members is

>Jordan Rubin (the founder of Garden of Life)! No, there's no

>coincidence there! You don't think that this has anything to do

>with their recommendations do you!!!

Sure, why not? Jordan Rubin wouldn't be on the board in the first place if

Sally (WAPF prez) thought his products were not WAPF-compatible.

>

>WAPF stopped recommending Carlson RIGHT when they started

>recommending Garden of Life's. Seems rather apparent to me.

First, Rubin is only an *honorary* board member as are so many other health

practitioners who are WAPF-compatible. I do not believe these folks have the

power that the regular board has in making executive decisions. Second, huh.

Well, the WAPF also recommends Blue Ice, but it's proprieter, Dave Wetzel,

isn't a board member nor an honorary board member. But so what if he was?

You have to keep in mind that WAPF is a non-profit charity with the sole

mission to serve the public interest (unlike a for-profit corporation like

Carlson's). You insinuate that Sally is corrupted by her association with

Jordan Rubin, but that is based on ignorance of Sally and how she operates.

I believe, in fact, that her seal of approval to GOL came about largely

based on feedback from Chapterleaders from whom she solicited

opinions/experience with the products as she was considering NOT having the

company present at the last national conference. Apparently, she was swayed

by the positive testimonials, and I imagine by her own research into the

company.

The fact that GOL didn't pass the consumer labs test due to high peroxide

levels doesn't necessarily mean that Sally is merely a corrupt dictocrat

putting a seal of aproval on a bad product. I'm sure she has no idea of this

consumer labs report, but I'll be sure to mention it to her.

You

>know, it's kind of funny that they would now recommend an oil that

>failed ConsumerLab's testing instead of sticking with one that

>passed.

Consumer's Lab seal of approval is not necessarily a relevant factor in the

quality of a product. Undoubtedly, they, like so many other

groups/corporations operate under many false ideas about nutrition, so their

standards reflect this and thus it is not a automatically a *bad* thing when

a product fails one of their tests. Although, in the case of peroxide

values, I'd agree that high levels of peroxides is definitely not a good

thing. I wonder exactly what amount they found and how it compares to other

brands of CLO?

> NOT

>APPROVED

>

> Fail

>----------------------------------------------------------------

>

>Did you see that, FAIL. Let's not leave out all the facts now, OK.

>Don't be blinded by the lights my dear.

And what is that supposed to mean - " Don't be blinded by the lights my

dear. " ?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

May 30, 2005

----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of timjohan1

>Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 11:26 AM

>

>Subject: Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

>Vitamins

>

>On a side note, I just remembered an issue that I wanted to comment

>on. I believe it was Petteri who mentioned that he felt it was odd

>that a company would list a single vitamin content for a natural cod

>liver oil. He felt that a range would be more appropriate. What

>Perreri did not consider is that Carlson has more than one label

>printed and ready to be used pending the results of each batch

>analysis. Therefore, if a batch contained 1,100 IU, that

>corresponding label would be used. If a batch contained 900 IU then

>that corresponding label would be used. It would actually be

>cheaper and easier for Carlson print only one label with vitamin

>content ranges. In fact, because of ever changing natural vitamin

>contents and increasing label costs, Carlson is now doing just this.

I find this rather odd...so you are saying that at any given time when I go

to buy Carlson's CLO I might find a different vitamin content listed on the

label?

And so....additionally, if there is say...950 IUs vitamin A and 97 IUs

vitamin D in a given batch, Carlsons will slap on a label that says 950 IUs

vit. A and 97 IUs vit D? There must be SOME kind of range Carslon's allows

for, because surely they don't have hundreds of different combinations of

vit A and D amounts pre-labled. Not to mention DHA and EPA amounts!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

http://www.lysi.is/lysi/is/english/

----------------------------

May 31, 2005

--- In , " timjohan1 " <timjohan1@y...>

wrote:

> Petteri,

>

> Moller's oil for Finland is different than their oils sold in other

> countries in Europe. The oil sold to Finland is known to contain

> added vitamins A and D. Although these vitamins may possibly be

> synthetic in Finland (I don't really know), they are not in the US.

> The Moller website even specifies that their oils vary in different

> markets.

>

> Lysi is not in any way associated with or used by Carlson or

Moller,

> so I don't how their comments relate in any way to Carlson. Also,

> Lysi is not the largest producer of Cod Liver Oil as far as I know.

> I've acutally never even heard of them until now. Where did you

get

> this information from?

>

> Remember that it is possible to extract the natural vitamins A and

D

> found in cod liver oil prior to processing and then blend them back

> into the oil at a later stage. This allows the vitamin content to

> remain at a pre-specified level while keeping the vitamins natural.

Yes they are synthetic as the documentation shows. It's hard to

believe that Finland would be the exeption and the only country to

have added synthetics in CLO as we are under the very same

legistlation as other EU-countries. As I've said, synthetics are not

only in Moller's products but in all available.

This issue for me has not been about Carlson or Moller. It's about

modern day quality of CLO. If Carlson or any other company doesn't

want it's product to be regarded as a typical synthetics containing

CLO, they can state the facts publicly or release the spec. Eg. do

Carlsonlabs website or brochures claim that the CLO has only natural

vitamins? No. Would they say so if it was the case? Probably. Same

goes to Blue Ice and others.

I got my information about Lysi from a National Agency researcher. You

can get the basic information here:

Who is the the largest producer according to your knowledge?

Yes, I've been told that it's somewhat possible to extract and put the

natural vitamins back. But tell me, why has Carlson decided to go the

other way and fiddle with multiple labels?

Petteri

May 31, 2005

Petteri, I had decided to leave all communication to direct company

correspondnce, but I will respond to your questions due to the time

delay.

Moller strictly states that their oil has higher vitamin A contents

in Finland. Go to www.petermoller.com. Click on the products tab

on the left. Now click on Moller's Cod Liver Oil on the left.

Scroll down to the bottom of the chart. It says " * Finland: vitamin

A content is 1000 mg (3300 IU) " . Compare this to the 830 IU found

in the product for all other EU countries. I do not know why

Finland is so different, but it clearly is. I would guess that that

is where the synthetics might be added for Finland.

Carlson had never even considered that customers might think the

vitamins were synthetic. I am going to speak the management when I

get to the office today and some changes may be made to literature.

Even if you blend the natural vitamins back into the oil, it is

still a natural product and vitamin content will vary from batch to

batch. As you have mentioned, not all of the vitamin content can be

retained. In other words, even if the vitamins are added back into

the oil there will be variances UNLESS synthetics are added. One

could envision this variance as an indicator that the vitamins are

indeed natural.

> > Petteri,

> >

> > Moller's oil for Finland is different than their oils sold in

other

> > countries in Europe. The oil sold to Finland is known to

contain

> > added vitamins A and D. Although these vitamins may possibly be

> > synthetic in Finland (I don't really know), they are not in the

US.

>

> > The Moller website even specifies that their oils vary in

different

> > markets.

> >

> > Lysi is not in any way associated with or used by Carlson or

> Moller,

> > so I don't how their comments relate in any way to Carlson.

Also,

> > Lysi is not the largest producer of Cod Liver Oil as far as I

know.

>

> > I've acutally never even heard of them until now. Where did you

> get

> > this information from?

> >

> > Remember that it is possible to extract the natural vitamins A

and

> D

> > found in cod liver oil prior to processing and then blend them

back

> > into the oil at a later stage. This allows the vitamin content

to

> > remain at a pre-specified level while keeping the vitamins

natural.

>

> Yes they are synthetic as the documentation shows. It's hard to

> believe that Finland would be the exeption and the only country to

> have added synthetics in CLO as we are under the very same

> legistlation as other EU-countries. As I've said, synthetics are

not

> only in Moller's products but in all available.

>

> This issue for me has not been about Carlson or Moller. It's about

> modern day quality of CLO. If Carlson or any other company doesn't

> want it's product to be regarded as a typical synthetics containing

> CLO, they can state the facts publicly or release the spec. Eg. do

> Carlsonlabs website or brochures claim that the CLO has only

natural

> vitamins? No. Would they say so if it was the case? Probably. Same

> goes to Blue Ice and others.

>

> I got my information about Lysi from a National Agency researcher.

You

> can get the basic information here:

>

> http://www.lysi.is/lysi/is/english/

>

> Who is the the largest producer according to your knowledge?

>

> Yes, I've been told that it's somewhat possible to extract and put

the

> natural vitamins back. But tell me, why has Carlson decided to go

the

> other way and fiddle with multiple labels?

>

> Petteri

May 31, 2005

Suze --

--- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> I find this rather odd...so you are saying that at any given time when I go

> to buy Carlson's CLO I might find a different vitamin content listed on the

> label?

In my personal experience, different bottles of Carlson's CLO indeed have

different

levels of Vit. A & D.

I have bought different bottles within the span of a few days and gotten

different levels

of A & D listed on the labels and remember wondering about it at that time.

You might be able to verify this labelling issue by looking at the labels of

every bottle

in the store where you buy the CLO from.

I did the same at Whole Foods store a few months back and as I said above,

different

batches had different numbers.

FWIW.

-Pratick

__________________________________________________

May 31, 2005

Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

Even if you blend the natural vitamins back into the oil, it is

still a natural product and vitamin content will vary from batch to

batch. As you have mentioned, not all of the vitamin content can be

retained. In other words, even if the vitamins are added back into

the oil there will be variances UNLESS synthetics are added. One

could envision this variance as an indicator that the vitamins are

indeed natural.

==========

I once was talking to my local Standard Process rep about their supplements.

Standard Process makes its supplements from whole foods and lists very low

amounts of vitamins and minerals on the labels. (The effectiveness of the

supplements is due to the synergistic effects of all of the natural ingredients,

rather than a high amount of only one or two.) He told me that the company is

required by law to add a teeny bit of synthetic vitamins and minerals to its

formulas to standardize the amounts. When you're dealing with whole food

supplements, of course there will be natural variations in the product.

This is not to suggest that Carlson does the same thing -- only that in this

case, because of the type of supplements that Standard Process sells and the way

its supplements are configured, the company must add substances that purists

might not like.

Nenah

May 31, 2005

--- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> Second, huh. Other companies have many times the vits A and D amounts that

> are in Carlsons and are apparently not concerned with lawsuits.

I have lost interest in this issue, but if I were such a large manufacturer as

Carlson, I

would be more concerned about class action lawsuits rather than selling a few

extra

bottles of my product to a marginal group like us WAPF-ers.

After all, why would such a large corporation care about a handful of

individuals who for

some reason insist that they want to eat exceptionally high levels of Vitamins A

and D !

Doesn't make business sense to me, nutrition theories notwithstanding.

-Pratick

__________________________________________________

May 31, 2005

> RE: Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

>Vitamins

>

>--- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>> Second, huh. Other companies have many times the vits A and D

>amounts that

>> are in Carlsons and are apparently not concerned with lawsuits.

>

>I have lost interest in this issue, but if I were such a large

>manufacturer as Carlson, I

>would be more concerned about class action lawsuits rather than

>selling a few extra

>bottles of my product to a marginal group like us WAPF-ers.

Pratick,

I don't really think it has to do with size. Firstly because Blue Ice CLO

sold by Dave Wetzel is not just " a few extra bottles " of a product. It's

only one of two products he sells and so is probably responsible for a large

portion of his income. He's got a LOT to lose if he faced a lawsuit over the

vitamin amounts in his CLO. As well, Premiere/Quantum CLO has the same high

vits A and D amounts too and they don't seem concerned about lawsuits

either. I think the concern over lawsuits is due to the lack of knowledge

about safe quantities of these vitamins on the part of Carlson's and the

other companies that choose to sell low vitamin CLO. They are going by the

false mainstream dogma on vit A toxicity, it would seem. Obviously Dave

Wetzel and Cogswell (who sells Premiere brand) and very aware of WAP's

and the WAPF's research on this subject and so are not caught up in the

erroneous mainstream hysteria over the toxicity of vits A and D.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics