Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

May 26, 2005

Do you work for Carlson's? My understanding is companies like Carlson's

don't add anything. The oil they get from the marine processing plants

already has additives in it. I am learning that even on fishing boats, wild,

deep-sea fish is dunked in preservatives on the boat before frozen. It is

very difficult and costly to get fish that has not been treated this way.

Elaine

> From: " timjohan1 " <timjohan1@...>

> Reply-

> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:34:22 -0000

>

> Subject: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

>

> I would like to go on record and state that Carlson Cod Liver Oil does

> not contain synthetic vitamins, peanut oil, vegetable oil or soybean

> oil, alcohol or sacchharin. This has been discussed here previously

> and unfortunately much of the information discussed is false. If

> anyone would like furhter information I'd be happy to help.

>

> Tim Johanek

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May 26, 2005

Elaine-

>I am learning that even on fishing boats, wild,

>deep-sea fish is dunked in preservatives on the boat before frozen. It is

>very difficult and costly to get fish that has not been treated this way.

Could you shed some more light on this, or post a couple links? It sounds

rather depressing, to say the least.

-

May 26, 2005

> Carlson CLO contains soy, syntetics

From: " pkankkunen " <petteri.kankkunen@s...>

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:04:40 -0000

Message Number: 56657

Onibasu Link: http://onibasu.com/archives/nn/56657.html

Hi,

I've been taking CLO by the manufacturer that is often mentioned here

and on the WAPF site. As we are preparing for pregnancy I decided to

check more closely on the contents of the CLO. To my shock I found

out that it contains soy oil and synthetic vitamins.

Carlson Norwegian Cod Liver Oil is manufactured by Möller in

Norway (http://www.petermoller.com/). In Scandinavia the same product

is called Möller's cod liver oil. I requested the National agency for

medicine to deliver me a product information sheet on Möller/Carlson

cod liver oil.

This is what it states under 'Additives' or 'Helper substances' (I

don't know what's the correct translation as the text is in finnish):

Natural tocopherols (soy oil concentrate 70%), synthetic dl-

alphatocopherol-acetate, retinylpalmitate-concentrate (incl.

synthetic retinylpalmitate and peanut oil), cholecalciferol

concentrate (incl. synthetic cholecalciferol and vegetable oil).

The lemon flavor version includes also: saccharinsolution (incl.

ethanol), lemon flavor

I think Carsonlabs or some authority should provide you with similar

information on request.

I'm a bit depressed and angry at the moment as I've gulping that

stuff 2 tbs a day. Anyone know of CLO products that are true pure CLO?

Petteri

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

May 26, 2005

Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

I would like to go on record and state that Carlson Cod Liver Oil does

not contain synthetic vitamins, peanut oil, vegetable oil or soybean

oil, alcohol or sacchharin. This has been discussed here previously

and unfortunately much of the information discussed is false. If

anyone would like furhter information I'd be happy to help.

Tim Johanek

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I do know that soy makes

me have terrible GI symptoms -- it's the only food that does so. And when I

tried Carlson's, I had diarrhea while taking it, and for 2 weeks after I

discontinued it. I don't care what the manufacterer or distributors say, that

was fact enough for me.

Rebekah

May 27, 2005

Yes, I do work for Carlson, although my comment has been provided by

me personally and is not endorsed by Carlson. It was my reply to

Pratick that has been posted on this site.

Regarding the original comment:

>Carlson Norwegian Cod Liver Oil is manufactured by Möller in

>Norway (http://www.petermoller.com/). In Scandinavia the same

>product is called Möller's cod liver oil. I requested the National

>agency for medicine to deliver me a product information sheet on

>Möller/Carlson cod liver oil.

This may true, although Petteri would have been given a product

information sheet for the Scandanavian material, not the North

American material as this is confidential between Moller and

Carlson. Differing oils are sold in various regions, and I can

guarantee you that this does not apply to North America. If you

check on the Moller website under Cod Liver Oil you will see

that information listed on the page specifically excludes the oil

sold in the US. This is because Carlson is the authorized

distributor of Moller Cod Liver Oil in North America and the product

is manufactured by Moller to Carlson specifications.

> Natural tocopherols (soy oil concentrate 70%), synthetic dl-

> alphatocopherol-acetate, retinylpalmitate-concentrate (incl.

> synthetic retinylpalmitate and peanut oil), cholecalciferol

> concentrate (incl. synthetic cholecalciferol and vegetable oil).

As stated above, this does not apply to North America. Moller Cod

Liver Oil, distributed by Carlson in North America, is manufactured

to Carlson specifications. The use of synthetic vitamin E, peanut

oil, synthetic cholecalciferol (vitamin D3),synthetic A and soybean

oil is prohibited according to our specifications.

> The lemon flavor version includes also: saccharinsolution (incl.

> ethanol), lemon flavor

The lemon flavor does not contain saccharin or ethanol. I know this

because I am a member of the Quality Control Department. The product

importation sheets list all added ingredients and these are not

listed.

> I think Carsonlabs or some authority should provide you with similar

> information on request.

On the contrary, I am stating that this information is false as it

applies to Carlson Cod Liver Oil.

My only goal here is to quell the spread of false information. If

you do not wish to use Carlson Cod Liver oil that is OK, but I will

not tolerate the spread of information that I know for a fact is

false.

Tim Johanek

> > Carlson CLO contains soy, syntetics

> From: " pkankkunen " <petteri.kankkunen@s...>

> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:04:40 -0000

> Message Number: 56657

> Onibasu Link: http://onibasu.com/archives/nn/56657.html

>

> Hi,

>

> I've been taking CLO by the manufacturer that is often mentioned

here

> and on the WAPF site. As we are preparing for pregnancy I decided to

> check more closely on the contents of the CLO. To my shock I found

> out that it contains soy oil and synthetic vitamins.

>

> Carlson Norwegian Cod Liver Oil is manufactured by Möller in

> Norway (http://www.petermoller.com/). In Scandinavia the same

product

> is called Möller's cod liver oil. I requested the National agency

for

> medicine to deliver me a product information sheet on Möller/Carlson

> cod liver oil.

>

> This is what it states under 'Additives' or 'Helper substances' (I

> don't know what's the correct translation as the text is in

finnish):

>

> Natural tocopherols (soy oil concentrate 70%), synthetic dl-

> alphatocopherol-acetate, retinylpalmitate-concentrate (incl.

> synthetic retinylpalmitate and peanut oil), cholecalciferol

> concentrate (incl. synthetic cholecalciferol and vegetable oil).

>

> The lemon flavor version includes also: saccharinsolution (incl.

> ethanol), lemon flavor

>

> I think Carsonlabs or some authority should provide you with similar

> information on request.

>

> I'm a bit depressed and angry at the moment as I've gulping that

> stuff 2 tbs a day. Anyone know of CLO products that are true pure

CLO?

>

> Petteri

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -

-

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

May 27, 2005

I get my information from the internal product specification sheets.

Just out of curiousity, did you try the lemon flavored oil or the

regular flavored oil? You may find that the regular flavor does not

cause any gstric upset.

Tim

>

> Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

Vitamins

>

> I would like to go on record and state that Carlson Cod Liver Oil

does

> not contain synthetic vitamins, peanut oil, vegetable oil or

soybean

> oil, alcohol or sacchharin. This has been discussed here

previously

> and unfortunately much of the information discussed is false. If

> anyone would like furhter information I'd be happy to help.

>

> Tim Johanek

>

> I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I do know

that soy makes me have terrible GI symptoms -- it's the only food

that does so. And when I tried Carlson's, I had diarrhea while

taking it, and for 2 weeks after I discontinued it. I don't care

what the manufacterer or distributors say, that was fact enough for

me.

>

> Rebekah

>

May 27, 2005

Neither -- we used the capsules.

Rebekah

Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

Vitamins

>

> I would like to go on record and state that Carlson Cod Liver Oil

does

> not contain synthetic vitamins, peanut oil, vegetable oil or

soybean

> oil, alcohol or sacchharin. This has been discussed here

previously

> and unfortunately much of the information discussed is false. If

> anyone would like furhter information I'd be happy to help.

>

> Tim Johanek

>

> I'm not sure where you get your information from, but I do know

that soy makes me have terrible GI symptoms -- it's the only food

that does so. And when I tried Carlson's, I had diarrhea while

taking it, and for 2 weeks after I discontinued it. I don't care

what the manufacterer or distributors say, that was fact enough for

me.

>

> Rebekah

>

May 28, 2005

> Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

>Vitamins

>

>> I think Carsonlabs or some authority should provide you with similar

>> information on request.

>

>On the contrary, I am stating that this information is false as it

>applies to Carlson Cod Liver Oil.

Tim, rather than us all taking your word for it, (after all, we don't really

know you at all) it would be great if you could take a photo of the product

information sheet for Carlson's CLO (on the Carlson's stationary or with

some sort of evidence showing it's clearly an official document from

Carlson's) and post it to our list archives? That way we'd know for sure

*exactly* what IS in Carlson's CLO and what is not in it. The Moeller

company did this on request from Petteri, and it seems that if Carlson's

doesn't want false rumors spread about their product, then they should be

eagerly forthcoming with a product information sheet. If you don't want to

do that, you could send it to me personally, and I (as someone who IS

well-known by this group) would post the data to the list.

>

>My only goal here is to quell the spread of false information.

The best way to do that is to present a product information sheet on the

product in question.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

May 28, 2005

Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

one from me to prove his baseless information false? Carlson does

not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to his

comments?

I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do so.

With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I do

indeed work for Carlson.

http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

Tim Johanek

> > Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

> >Vitamins

> >

>

> >

> >> I think Carsonlabs or some authority should provide you with

similar

> >> information on request.

> >

> >On the contrary, I am stating that this information is false as it

> >applies to Carlson Cod Liver Oil.

>

> Tim, rather than us all taking your word for it, (after all, we

don't really

> know you at all) it would be great if you could take a photo of

the product

> information sheet for Carlson's CLO (on the Carlson's stationary

or with

> some sort of evidence showing it's clearly an official document

from

> Carlson's) and post it to our list archives? That way we'd know

for sure

> *exactly* what IS in Carlson's CLO and what is not in it. The

Moeller

> company did this on request from Petteri, and it seems that if

Carlson's

> doesn't want false rumors spread about their product, then they

should be

> eagerly forthcoming with a product information sheet. If you don't

want to

> do that, you could send it to me personally, and I (as someone who

IS

> well-known by this group) would post the data to the list.

>

> >

> >My only goal here is to quell the spread of false information.

>

> The best way to do that is to present a product information sheet

on the

> product in question.

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

times. " --

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

May 28, 2005

Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

one from me to prove his baseless information false? Carlson does

not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to his

comments?

I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do so.

With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I do

indeed work for Carlson.

http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

Tim Johanek

============

Tim,

If Carlson's is free of artificial ingredients, I don't know why the company

would want to keep this information confidential. To my way of thinking, it

is counterproductive for any company to hide information that would induce

people to buy the product!

Perhaps you could explain this to me.

Thanks,

Nenah

May 28, 2005

On Sat, 28 May 2005 22:16:24 -0000

" timjohan1 " <timjohan1@...> wrote:

> Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

> without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

> one from me to prove his baseless information false? Carlson does

> not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

> sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

> have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to his

> comments?

Now this is interesting. Suze asks for an authentic spec sheet and the

answer is " well the other guy didn't provide one so why should I? " LOL!

Dunno, why should we trust either one for that matter? Even so, IIRC you

confirmed that Petteri was right in part, just not about Carlsons in

North America. So it seems like special pleading on your part to suggest

we can't have one for the North American brand since you already

confirmed that the other brand is tainted with things that we don't want,

at least on this list.

For me personally, I'm very leery of any company that is unwilling to

provide *specific* information about their product. Maybe its good but

then again maybe its not. How are we supposed to know? Or are we just

supposed to take your word for it?

No thanks.

> I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

> spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

> will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do so.

This is just too funny. A request from a former/potential customer is

not a valid need to do so? The disarming of assertions that you say are

baseless is not a valid need to do so? I hope you don't work in their

marketing department.

> With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I do

> indeed work for Carlson.

>

> http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

>

> http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

>

> Tim Johanek

At this point, I'm not sure that really matters, since apparently you

can't provide us with any specific information.

" This is what is meant by " sacrifice " , literally, the " making sacred "

of an animal consumed for dinner. Yet sacrifice, because it dwells

on the death, is a concept often shocking to the secular modern

Western mind - to people who calmly organize daily hecatombs

of beasts, and who are among the most death-dealing carnivores

the world has ever seen. "

Margaret Visser: The Rituals of Dinner

May 28, 2005

At 10:16 PM 5/28/05 -0000, you wrote:

>Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

>without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

>one from me to prove his baseless information false? Carlson does

>not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

>sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

>have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

>statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to his

>comments?

>

>I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

>spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

>will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do so.

Tim, I think you're missing part of the point here. So let me be my

usual self and lay it out.

There have been multiple discussions on multiple lists about Carlson's CLO

and its true ingredients and processing over the few months. I assume

the volume of that discussion is why you joined this list to try to refute

it. Carlson's has consistently *not* provided specific data in response

to requests - the responses have always been " no we don't have that stuff "

without any supporting documentation to back it up.

That's exactly what you seem to be doing now. If Carlson's wants to be

taken seriously, and not lose business due to this " false information " ,

they have to prove it. That's the bottom line.

I believe what Petteri obtained was a version in his country of what would

count as a Material Safety Data Sheet if it were an industrial chemical or

something. I do not know if these are required in the US (by USDA or

FDA, perhaps?) for food items or supplements, but someone may want to look

into that and request it FOIA for Carlson's if it is. Although

considering FDA regs, I'm guessing that there would be a lot of comments in

it that translate to exactly what you're saying .... " It's proprietary " .

Sorry - but a list of true ingredients doesn't seem like proprietary

information to me. If you want anyone to believe you, or your employer

wants anyone to believe it ... you need to be a little more forthcoming

than saying " it's not true it's not it's not it's not! " . If you can

prove what you're saying, and submit documentation to allay people's

concerns, well, then, I'm sure your sales will increase again. Heh.

MFJ

Ideas are funny that way ... you go and let one loose, and suddenly it's

crashing about the place, bashing up against other peoples' heads.

Somebody oughtta control that. Pesky things, ideas.

May 28, 2005

--- In , " timjohan1 " <timjohan1@y...>

wrote:

> Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

> without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

> one from me to prove his baseless information false?

Because YOUR product is the one avaialbe here in N. America that many

WAPFer's are consuming, not the Moeller product. Why would any of us

in N. America be concerned with the ingredients in a product only

distributed in Norway?

Carlson does

> not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

> sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

> have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to

his

> comments?

>

> I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

> spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

> will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do

so.

Huh. HOW is it NOT a valid need to provide a product information

sheet to potential customers who are leary of the product's

ingredients and want to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CONSUMING. Is it too much

to ask what it is we are putting into our mouths? I dunno, but I have

this crazy idea that that is an " actual valid need. "

You know, I once called a CLO manufacturer here in N. America and

requested an assay on their product, and they didn't tell me, " well,

your desire to know what's in our product before you consume it

isn't 'an actual valid need' so we're not telling. " Rather, they said

sure, we'll send an assay. And they did. And I became their customer.

>

> With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I do

> indeed work for Carlson.

>

> http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

>

> http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

>

> Tim Johanek

Thanks for that. I guess my point was that we on this list don't know

you, whether or not you work for Carlson's, so we have no idea if we

can trust your word on this product. The fact that you work for

Carslon's still doesn't tell us that whatever you say about the

product is the truth (especially when Carlsons is not forthcoming

wiht proof about what's in the product). I really don't mean this in

a disrespectful way, but, you know, most folks active on this list

are quite familiar with the spin put out by many companies and their

employeesa about the products they promote. Since you haven't been

around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we simply don't

know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what I meant

by " we don't know you " .

Like I said, this could all be laid to rest with a simple product

information sheet, or whatever the equivalent is here in the U.S. (as

long as it lists the ingredients in the product). I would also like

to see an assay of contaminants, now that we're on the subject. Or,

is that also confidential?

Sincerely,

Suze Fisher

May 28, 2005

>Since you haven't been

>around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we simply don't

>know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what I meant

>by " we don't know you " .

I might jump in here to belabor the point, that we HAVE had

cases of people posing as people they are not! I mean, for

all anyone knows here I could be Jack Spratt, ex football jock

now serving time in prison for punching out a cop ... ok,

well, some of you HAVE met me, but how do the rest of

you know that? Maybe they are ALSO me logging a someone

else ... if we really want to know what " Carlson's " thinks, someone

should write or call them directly, not via this list.

I find the whole discussion interesting though. The " confidential "

thing comes up a lot on the celiac list, where people want to

know what REALLY is in " natural flavorings " and how the lines

are cleaned and if in fact wheat is even in the same building.

One company does advertise that in fact they go so far

as to disallow their employees from bringing wheat in

their lunches (or any lunch at all, I forget). Some companies do

get very exact about this stuff, which I for one really appreciate.

Secrecy doesn't set well with me at all.

OTOH you get stats that say that 16% of food labelled " gluten

free " does in fact test positive for gluten, which makes

you wonder about their factory processes. I think someone

putting stuff in their mouth is a valid enough reason to ask!

Heidi Jean

May 29, 2005

Remember here folks, this whole discussion is between me and the

members of this group. As stated in my first post, it is NOT

endorsed by Carlson. In fact, I don't believe they are yet aware of

this communication. My responses are fueled on a personal level by

numerous calls and e-mails from customers who have read posts on

this group.

However, when I get back to the office next week I will inform

Management of this communication and request that a copy of a

product information sheet be made available. Of course, if

approved, you will see on the document that no other ingredients are

listed besides cod liver oil, vitamin E including mixed tocopherols

from soy and natural lemon flavor (for the flavored version).

On a side note, I just remembered an issue that I wanted to comment

on. I believe it was Petteri who mentioned that he felt it was odd

that a company would list a single vitamin content for a natural cod

liver oil. He felt that a range would be more appropriate. What

Perreri did not consider is that Carlson has more than one label

printed and ready to be used pending the results of each batch

analysis. Therefore, if a batch contained 1,100 IU, that

corresponding label would be used. If a batch contained 900 IU then

that corresponding label would be used. It would actually be

cheaper and easier for Carlson print only one label with vitamin

content ranges. In fact, because of ever changing natural vitamin

contents and increasing label costs, Carlson is now doing just this.

Tim

> > Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

> > without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to

see

> > one from me to prove his baseless information false?

>

> Because YOUR product is the one avaialbe here in N. America that

many

> WAPFer's are consuming, not the Moeller product. Why would any of

us

> in N. America be concerned with the ingredients in a product only

> distributed in Norway?

>

> Carlson does

> > not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

> > sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

> > have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> > statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to

> his

> > comments?

> >

> > I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given

this

> > spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps

Carlson

> > will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to

do

> so.

>

> Huh. HOW is it NOT a valid need to provide a product information

> sheet to potential customers who are leary of the product's

> ingredients and want to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CONSUMING. Is it too

much

> to ask what it is we are putting into our mouths? I dunno, but I

have

> this crazy idea that that is an " actual valid need. "

>

> You know, I once called a CLO manufacturer here in N. America and

> requested an assay on their product, and they didn't tell

me, " well,

> your desire to know what's in our product before you consume it

> isn't 'an actual valid need' so we're not telling. " Rather, they

said

> sure, we'll send an assay. And they did. And I became their

customer.

>

> >

> > With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I

do

> > indeed work for Carlson.

> >

> > http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

> >

> > http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

> >

> > Tim Johanek

>

> Thanks for that. I guess my point was that we on this list don't

know

> you, whether or not you work for Carlson's, so we have no idea if

we

> can trust your word on this product. The fact that you work for

> Carslon's still doesn't tell us that whatever you say about the

> product is the truth (especially when Carlsons is not forthcoming

> wiht proof about what's in the product). I really don't mean this

in

> a disrespectful way, but, you know, most folks active on this list

> are quite familiar with the spin put out by many companies and

their

> employeesa about the products they promote. Since you haven't been

> around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we simply

don't

> know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what I

meant

> by " we don't know you " .

>

> Like I said, this could all be laid to rest with a simple product

> information sheet, or whatever the equivalent is here in the U.S.

(as

> long as it lists the ingredients in the product). I would also

like

> to see an assay of contaminants, now that we're on the subject.

Or,

> is that also confidential?

>

> Sincerely,

> Suze Fisher

May 29, 2005

Until now, it has never been an option in Carlson's mind that

cutomers might think the vitamins are synthetic. Because we use

only natural cod liver oil that has no added synthetic ingredients,

we never even considered that NOT STATING the vitamins are natural

would indicate in some persons mind that this is an indication that

they might be synthetic. I will bring this to the attention of our

labeling manager and perhaps the labels can be changed.

Eaxctly how would you like Carlson to prove no synthetic ingredients

are added? Would a written letter on company letterhead suffice?

--- In , " Nenah Sylver " <nenah@b...>

wrote:

> Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

Vitamins

>

> Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

> without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

> one from me to prove his baseless information false? Carlson does

> not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

> sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

> have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to

his

> comments?

>

> I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

> spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

> will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do

so.

>

> With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I do

> indeed work for Carlson.

>

> http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

>

> http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

>

> Tim Johanek

> ============

>

> Tim,

> If Carlson's is free of artificial ingredients, I don't know why

the company

> would want to keep this information confidential. To my way of

thinking, it

> is counterproductive for any company to hide information that

would induce

> people to buy the product!

>

> Perhaps you could explain this to me.

>

> Thanks,

> Nenah

May 29, 2005

I did not confirm Petteri's information, but rather confirmed that

it does not apply to Carlson Cod Liver Oil. I have no idea if

Petteri even knows what he is talking about or if he has it in his

presence. I have not seen the Scandanavian spec sheet.

If you don't want to use Carlson Cod Liver Oil than don't. I don't

care what you do myself. You can't make everyone happy and you may

be one of these persons. Just don't claim to know what is in our

product when you don't (you even said so yourself that you don't).

>

> > Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

> > without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to

see

> > one from me to prove his baseless information false? Carlson

does

> > not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

> > sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

> > have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> > statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to

his

> > comments?

>

> Now this is interesting. Suze asks for an authentic spec sheet and

the

> answer is " well the other guy didn't provide one so why should I? "

LOL!

>

> Dunno, why should we trust either one for that matter? Even so,

IIRC you

> confirmed that Petteri was right in part, just not about Carlsons

in

> North America. So it seems like special pleading on your part to

suggest

> we can't have one for the North American brand since you already

> confirmed that the other brand is tainted with things that we

don't want,

> at least on this list.

>

> For me personally, I'm very leery of any company that is unwilling

to

> provide *specific* information about their product. Maybe its good

but

> then again maybe its not. How are we supposed to know? Or are we

just

> supposed to take your word for it?

>

> No thanks.

>

> > I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given

this

> > spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps

Carlson

> > will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to

do so.

>

> This is just too funny. A request from a former/potential customer

is

> not a valid need to do so? The disarming of assertions that you

say are

> baseless is not a valid need to do so? I hope you don't work in

their

> marketing department.

>

> > With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I

do

> > indeed work for Carlson.

> >

> > http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

> >

> > http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

> >

> > Tim Johanek

>

> At this point, I'm not sure that really matters, since apparently

you

> can't provide us with any specific information.

>

> " This is what is meant by " sacrifice " , literally, the " making

sacred "

> of an animal consumed for dinner. Yet sacrifice, because it dwells

> on the death, is a concept often shocking to the secular modern

> Western mind - to people who calmly organize daily hecatombs

> of beasts, and who are among the most death-dealing carnivores

> the world has ever seen. "

>

> Margaret Visser: The Rituals of Dinner

May 29, 2005

So then call Carlson for more information. Ask your questions and

see who you end up talking to. I wait to hear from you

>

> >Since you haven't been

> >around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we simply

don't

> >know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what I

meant

> >by " we don't know you " .

>

> I might jump in here to belabor the point, that we HAVE had

> cases of people posing as people they are not! I mean, for

> all anyone knows here I could be Jack Spratt, ex football jock

> now serving time in prison for punching out a cop ... ok,

> well, some of you HAVE met me, but how do the rest of

> you know that? Maybe they are ALSO me logging a someone

> else ... if we really want to know what " Carlson's " thinks, someone

> should write or call them directly, not via this list.

>

> I find the whole discussion interesting though. The " confidential "

> thing comes up a lot on the celiac list, where people want to

> know what REALLY is in " natural flavorings " and how the lines

> are cleaned and if in fact wheat is even in the same building.

> One company does advertise that in fact they go so far

> as to disallow their employees from bringing wheat in

> their lunches (or any lunch at all, I forget). Some companies do

> get very exact about this stuff, which I for one really appreciate.

> Secrecy doesn't set well with me at all.

>

> OTOH you get stats that say that 16% of food labelled " gluten

> free " does in fact test positive for gluten, which makes

> you wonder about their factory processes. I think someone

> putting stuff in their mouth is a valid enough reason to ask!

>

> Heidi Jean

May 29, 2005

There's another question here. Carlson's is recommended by Mercola

(who I'm suspicious of because he's always selling you something), as

well as by WAPF. What is/was the basis for that recommendation? Has

Carlson's changed its policies since that recommendation? It has

certainly changed the claimed amount of vitamin A. We need a response

from WAPF and Mercola on this (Mercola has not responded to my query

as of now -- perhaps others can write him as well).

Blank

On 5/28/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

>

> > Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by Petteri

> > without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to see

> > one from me to prove his baseless information false?

>

> Because YOUR product is the one avaialbe here in N. America that many

> WAPFer's are consuming, not the Moeller product. Why would any of us

> in N. America be concerned with the ingredients in a product only

> distributed in Norway?

>

> Carlson does

> > not authorize me to honor your request because the product specs

> > sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should Carlson

> > have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> > statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards to

> his

> > comments?

> >

> > I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given this

> > spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps Carlson

> > will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to do

> so.

>

> Huh. HOW is it NOT a valid need to provide a product information

> sheet to potential customers who are leary of the product's

> ingredients and want to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CONSUMING. Is it too much

> to ask what it is we are putting into our mouths? I dunno, but I have

> this crazy idea that that is an " actual valid need. "

>

> You know, I once called a CLO manufacturer here in N. America and

> requested an assay on their product, and they didn't tell me, " well,

> your desire to know what's in our product before you consume it

> isn't 'an actual valid need' so we're not telling. " Rather, they said

> sure, we'll send an assay. And they did. And I became their customer.

>

> >

> > With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I do

> > indeed work for Carlson.

> >

> > http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

> >

> > http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

> >

> > Tim Johanek

>

> Thanks for that. I guess my point was that we on this list don't know

> you, whether or not you work for Carlson's, so we have no idea if we

> can trust your word on this product. The fact that you work for

> Carslon's still doesn't tell us that whatever you say about the

> product is the truth (especially when Carlsons is not forthcoming

> wiht proof about what's in the product). I really don't mean this in

> a disrespectful way, but, you know, most folks active on this list

> are quite familiar with the spin put out by many companies and their

> employeesa about the products they promote. Since you haven't been

> around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we simply don't

> know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what I meant

> by " we don't know you " .

>

> Like I said, this could all be laid to rest with a simple product

> information sheet, or whatever the equivalent is here in the U.S. (as

> long as it lists the ingredients in the product). I would also like

> to see an assay of contaminants, now that we're on the subject. Or,

> is that also confidential?

>

> Sincerely,

> Suze Fisher

>

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>

May 29, 2005

--- In , " Nenah Sylver " <nenah@b...>

wrote:

> Tim,

> If Carlson's is free of artificial ingredients, I don't know why the company

would want to keep this information confidential. To my way of thinking, it is

counterproductive for any company to hide information that would induce people

to buy the product!

Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic Vitamins

Until now, it has never been an option in Carlson's mind that

cutomers might think the vitamins are synthetic. Because we use

only natural cod liver oil that has no added synthetic ingredients,

we never even considered that NOT STATING the vitamins are natural

would indicate in some persons mind that this is an indication that

they might be synthetic. I will bring this to the attention of our

labeling manager and perhaps the labels can be changed.

Eaxctly how would you like Carlson to prove no synthetic ingredients

are added? Would a written letter on company letterhead suffice?

======================

Thanks for the reply, Tim.

If it were ME in charge of making sure that customers felt confident about my

product, I'd issue a report on the Carlson website and also on letterhead, in

the printed media someplace, simply stating that contrary to recent rumors,

Carlson does not put anything synthetic into its cod liver oil. Just to

alleviate concerns.

Best,

Nenah

May 30, 2005

Yes Tim, I do know what I'm talking about. Actually, Möller's

Finnish

importer Tamro has the spec sheet available on-line as a .pdf-file.

The site doesn't seem to be working right now but you can access it

via Google's cached pages. Here's the direct link:

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:lwiySXLRaO4J:

www.kalanmaksaoljy.fi:8888/Tamro_Suomi/tamrosuomi.

nsf/304c79868e05cc4e42256c8a003ea944/bbd1fd5b67118

1eec2256d56001b36da/%24FILE/_39dgmoobedlgmmsr1ihm6

ku90edkn8sjleln62_.pdf+kromivihreisiin+natronkalkk

i-lasipulloihin & hl=fi

If you're interested you can order the sheet as a official notice from

our National agency for medicines. They will likely charge you for it

and it wil still be in finnish. Here you can find the contact

information:

http://www.laakelaitos.fi/english/about_us/contact

_information/index.html

I'm sorry if my poor english lead people believe that Carlson's has

one thing or the other. What I meant to say in my original post was

that Carson's should be able to provide a spec sheet that list the

ingredients, not that I know the ingredients are similiar. But that

has been now discussed.

My intention was to point out what most CLO produts are made of

nowadays. All CLO-products sold in my country have added synthetic

vitamins. When I asked Agusta Hardardottir, the Export Manager of Lysi

(the biggest producer of cod liver oil), she said they do not have

unbleached and undeodorized cod liver oil with natural vitamins A and

D on stock so this kind of oil would therefore be produced according

to a mutually agreed specification.

So yes, there's a growing number of people who need convincing that

the vitamins in any given CLO are natural. And for a good reason.

Petteri

> > > Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by

Petteri

> > > without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need to

> see

> > > one from me to prove his baseless information false?

> >

> > Because YOUR product is the one avaialbe here in N. America that

> many

> > WAPFer's are consuming, not the Moeller product. Why would any of

> us

> > in N. America be concerned with the ingredients in a product only

> > distributed in Norway?

> >

> > Carlson does

> > > not authorize me to honor your request because the product

specs

> > > sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should

Carlson

> > > have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> > > statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards

to

> > his

> > > comments?

> > >

> > > I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily given

> this

> > > spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps

> Carlson

> > > will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need to

> do

> > so.

> >

> > Huh. HOW is it NOT a valid need to provide a product information

> > sheet to potential customers who are leary of the product's

> > ingredients and want to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CONSUMING. Is it too

> much

> > to ask what it is we are putting into our mouths? I dunno, but I

> have

> > this crazy idea that that is an " actual valid need. "

> >

> > You know, I once called a CLO manufacturer here in N. America and

> > requested an assay on their product, and they didn't tell

> me, " well,

> > your desire to know what's in our product before you consume it

> > isn't 'an actual valid need' so we're not telling. " Rather, they

> said

> > sure, we'll send an assay. And they did. And I became their

> customer.

> >

> > >

> > > With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links that I

> do

> > > indeed work for Carlson.

> > >

> > > http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

> > >

> > > http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

> > >

> > > Tim Johanek

> >

> > Thanks for that. I guess my point was that we on this list don't

> know

> > you, whether or not you work for Carlson's, so we have no idea if

> we

> > can trust your word on this product. The fact that you work for

> > Carslon's still doesn't tell us that whatever you say about the

> > product is the truth (especially when Carlsons is not forthcoming

> > wiht proof about what's in the product). I really don't mean this

> in

> > a disrespectful way, but, you know, most folks active on this

list

> > are quite familiar with the spin put out by many companies and

> their

> > employeesa about the products they promote. Since you haven't

been

> > around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we simply

> don't

> > know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what I

> meant

> > by " we don't know you " .

> >

> > Like I said, this could all be laid to rest with a simple product

> > information sheet, or whatever the equivalent is here in the U.S.

> (as

> > long as it lists the ingredients in the product). I would also

> like

> > to see an assay of contaminants, now that we're on the subject.

> Or,

> > is that also confidential?

> >

> > Sincerely,

> > Suze Fisher

May 30, 2005

Hi :

I too wrote to Dr. Mercola (a strong advocate of Carlsons) soon after

Petteri originally posted about Carlsons. I have heard nothing and don't

expect to.

vsp

On 5/29/05, Blank <john.blank@...> wrote:

>

> There's another question here. Carlson's is recommended by Mercola

> (who I'm suspicious of because he's always selling you something), as

> well as by WAPF. What is/was the basis for that recommendation? Has

> Carlson's changed its policies since that recommendation? It has

> certainly changed the claimed amount of vitamin A. We need a response

> from WAPF and Mercola on this (Mercola has not responded to my query

> as of now -- perhaps others can write him as well).

>

> Blank

>

May 30, 2005

> Re: Re: Carlson Cod Liver Oil Does Not Contain Synthetic

>Vitamins

>

>There's another question here. Carlson's is recommended by Mercola

>(who I'm suspicious of because he's always selling you something), as

>well as by WAPF. What is/was the basis for that recommendation?

,

The WAPF stopped recommeding Carlson's several months ago due to the low

vitamin A content.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

May 30, 2005

Petteri,

Moller's oil for Finland is different than their oils sold in other

countries in Europe. The oil sold to Finland is known to contain

added vitamins A and D. Although these vitamins may possibly be

synthetic in Finland (I don't really know), they are not in the US.

The Moller website even specifies that their oils vary in different

markets.

Lysi is not in any way associated with or used by Carlson or Moller,

so I don't how their comments relate in any way to Carlson. Also,

Lysi is not the largest producer of Cod Liver Oil as far as I know.

I've acutally never even heard of them until now. Where did you get

this information from?

Remember that it is possible to extract the natural vitamins A and D

found in cod liver oil prior to processing and then blend them back

into the oil at a later stage. This allows the vitamin content to

remain at a pre-specified level while keeping the vitamins natural.

> > > > Suze, how is it that you trust the information posted by

> Petteri

> > > > without seeing the specification sheet but you actually need

to

> > see

> > > > one from me to prove his baseless information false?

> > >

> > > Because YOUR product is the one avaialbe here in N. America

that

> > many

> > > WAPFer's are consuming, not the Moeller product. Why would any

of

> > us

> > > in N. America be concerned with the ingredients in a product

only

> > > distributed in Norway?

> > >

> > > Carlson does

> > > > not authorize me to honor your request because the product

> specs

> > > > sheets are confidential. And, in my opinion, why should

> Carlson

> > > > have to release confidential spec sheets to combat the false

> > > > statements of a man who has no proof of validity with regards

> to

> > > his

> > > > comments?

> > > >

> > > > I have a request for you. Since Petteri was so readily

given

> > this

> > > > spec sheet, why doesn't HE post that spec sheet? Perhaps

> > Carlson

> > > > will grant me permission when there is an actual valid need

to

> > do

> > > so.

> > >

> > > Huh. HOW is it NOT a valid need to provide a product

information

> > > sheet to potential customers who are leary of the product's

> > > ingredients and want to KNOW WHAT THEY ARE CONSUMING. Is it

too

> > much

> > > to ask what it is we are putting into our mouths? I dunno, but

I

> > have

> > > this crazy idea that that is an " actual valid need. "

> > >

> > > You know, I once called a CLO manufacturer here in N. America

and

> > > requested an assay on their product, and they didn't tell

> > me, " well,

> > > your desire to know what's in our product before you consume

it

> > > isn't 'an actual valid need' so we're not telling. " Rather,

they

> > said

> > > sure, we'll send an assay. And they did. And I became their

> > customer.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > With regards to who I am, here are some supportive links

that I

> > do

> > > > indeed work for Carlson.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.hsrmagazine.com/articles/311cover.html

> > > >

> > > > http://www.carlsonlabs.com/newsletter5.html

> > > >

> > > > Tim Johanek

> > >

> > > Thanks for that. I guess my point was that we on this list

don't

> > know

> > > you, whether or not you work for Carlson's, so we have no idea

if

> > we

> > > can trust your word on this product. The fact that you work

for

> > > Carslon's still doesn't tell us that whatever you say about

the

> > > product is the truth (especially when Carlsons is not

forthcoming

> > > wiht proof about what's in the product). I really don't mean

this

> > in

> > > a disrespectful way, but, you know, most folks active on this

> list

> > > are quite familiar with the spin put out by many companies and

> > their

> > > employeesa about the products they promote. Since you haven't

> been

> > > around for a while posting about a variety of issues, we

simply

> > don't

> > > know you well enough to take your word as gospel. That's what

I

> > meant

> > > by " we don't know you " .

> > >

> > > Like I said, this could all be laid to rest with a simple

product

> > > information sheet, or whatever the equivalent is here in the

U.S.

> > (as

> > > long as it lists the ingredients in the product). I would also

> > like

> > > to see an assay of contaminants, now that we're on the

subject.

> > Or,

> > > is that also confidential?

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > > Suze Fisher

May 30, 2005

On 5/30/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> The WAPF stopped recommeding Carlson's several months ago due to the low

> vitamin A content.

I bought a bottle of Carlson's towards the end of last year, and I was

flabbergasted when I got home and looked to see it only had about 1100

IU/tsp. I had just assumed it had typical vitamin A content. That

was the last time I so much as looked at a Carlson's bottle. Garden

of Life is becoming widely available in stores, so I mail order Blue

Ice or RL, and in a jam where I need it on demand I pick up some GOL

from a store.

Chris

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