Re: SLOW POISONING OF AMERICA [and CANADA]

[Guest guest]

>> I wondered if there could be an actual chemical causing the massive

obesity

epidemic <<

I dunno. This one doesn't work for me.

I don't doubt for a moment that MSG is harmful, nor even that for some

people it might trigger problems that include obesity. But I don't think

there is a single smoking gun that accounts for the " obesity epidemic "

(which is a meme I'm questioning these days, actually, but that's another

story).

But there is a lot of obesity in the women in my family, stretching back in

time well before the advent of MSG. I seem to have been caught in a genetic

trap.

Furthermore, while I certainly consumed MSG growing up, I ate far, far less

of it than most people probably did, because number one, I grew up just

before the " fast food " era, and my family did not eat any of the convenience

foods that were out there on any kind of regular basis. We ate no packaged

meals or used things like " Hamburger Helper. " I won't say that my mom was

into health food, because she wasn't, but just as an example, we never had

white bread in our house and weren't allowed sugared cereals except on

holidays (Capt. Crunch being my favorite, can you imagine?) and we didn't

serve dessert in our house. We ate a pretty straightforward meat, potatos,

and veggies diet, with sandwhiches on whole wheat bread in the lunch box,

plus fruit. We did not drink sodas, even. And I never set foot in a

Mc's or Burger King until I went away to college.

Also, if MSG were the cause of obesity in humans, men would be equally obese

as women, and they aren't. There are far more obese women than men.

Futhermore, I know lots and I do mean LOTS of pasty-faced, unhealthy,

rail-thin teens and young adults who literally live on processed and fast

foods. Why isn't MSG triggering obesity in THEM?

No, while I absolutely agree that MSG is harmful and might trigger obesity

as well as other problems in susceptible individuals, I think this AHA! We

have THE ANSWER! approach to complex problems is misguided and just confuses

people who are trying to find their way out of unhealthy habits and

conditions. JMO.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

> I don't doubt for a moment that MSG is harmful, nor even that for some

> people it might trigger problems that include obesity. But I don't

> think

> there is a single smoking gun that accounts for the " obesity epidemic "

> (which is a meme I'm questioning these days, actually, but that's

> another

> story).

The problem for me is that the Chinese have eaten piles of it for

millennia and are not exactly roly-poly people.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

Christie-

>I don't doubt for a moment that MSG is harmful, nor even that for some

>people it might trigger problems that include obesity. But I don't think

>there is a single smoking gun that accounts for the " obesity epidemic "

>(which is a meme I'm questioning these days, actually, but that's another

>story).

Who said anything about a single smoking gun? It does seem very likely,

though, that MSG is one major cause.

>Also, if MSG were the cause of obesity in humans, men would be equally obese

>as women, and they aren't. There are far more obese women than men.

I don't think you're thinking clearly about the issue. There's no reason

to assume that (a) MSG affects everyone equally, and ( affects both

genders equally.

-

[Guest guest]

>> I don't think you're thinking clearly about the issue. There's no reason

to assume that (a) MSG affects everyone equally, and ( affects both

genders equally. <<

I am thinking perfectly clearly .... are you accusing me of being

glutenated? <G>

The line I quoted suggested that a single chemical was the cause of the

" obesity epidemic. " That is what I was questioning, not the possibility that

MSG might be a trigger in some people. And lots of things affect individuals

differently and genders differently. That's kind of my point.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

[Guest guest]

Can't remember the source now but IIRC, MSG is actually a fairly new item in

Chinese and Japanese cooking... might be worth googling.

Dedy

Re: SLOW POISONING OF AMERICA [and CANADA]

> I don't doubt for a moment that MSG is harmful, nor even that for some

> people it might trigger problems that include obesity. But I don't

> think

> there is a single smoking gun that accounts for the " obesity epidemic "

> (which is a meme I'm questioning these days, actually, but that's

> another

> story).

The problem for me is that the Chinese have eaten piles of it for

millennia and are not exactly roly-poly people.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com

http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net

[Guest guest]

>>> I wondered if there could be an actual chemical causing the massive

> obesity

> epidemic <<

>

> I dunno. This one doesn't work for me.

>

> I don't doubt for a moment that MSG is harmful, nor even that for some

> people it might trigger problems that include obesity. But I don't think

> there is a single smoking gun that accounts for the " obesity epidemic "

> (which is a meme I'm questioning these days, actually, but that's another

> story).

> Christie

Thinking AHA! or one cause smoking gun is an accepted societal meme that is

just the result of getting some of the answer to a question. Tied closely to

the competitive memes of business and education that accepts and rewards

individuals for an answer, even if it's an incomplete one.

This book was written by parents because of their child's health problems

which is an oddity to getting a book into print. Publishers want credentials

or credentialed backing at least. Personal experience also to me adds

something personal interest or specialization can leave out. The heart has

to be working with the head.

" Could be an actual chemical causing the massive obesity epidemic " is an

open ended statement. " MSG is the actual " would close it. Speaking of

actual, last week there was news about super sizing the obesity statistics

by a University of Vermont researcher to get funding. Google, obesity

Vermont, for details.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

> " Could be an actual chemical causing the massive obesity epidemic " is an

>open ended statement. " MSG is the actual " would close it. Speaking of

>actual, last week there was news about super sizing the obesity statistics

>by a University of Vermont researcher to get funding. Google, obesity

>Vermont, for details.

>

>Wanita

One interesting thing about the MSG rat studies is that the timing

of the MSG is an issue. That is, they gave the MSG to rat PUPS to

make chronically obese rats.

I wonder if the Enfamils and other milk substitutes have MSG in

them? Or if some similar compound is created by the milk drying

process?

There is a very strong link between obesity and

premature infants ... preemies are rarely fed any breast milk,

and the aritificial milk is started too early for their systems.

Feeding cow milk to rat pups is a great way to give them T1

diabetes (tho obviously rat breast milk doesn't do that). But

feeding cow milk to an adult rat doesn't have the same

effect. I expect though, that the milk used in rat studies

was dried, just like what we feed babies.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

According to http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/MSG.html and other sources,

infant formulas do have MSG in them. Even the regular cow's milk formulas are

highly processed. The non-allergenic formulas are far worse.

KerryAnn

----- Original Message -----

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer

I wonder if the Enfamils and other milk substitutes have MSG in

them? Or if some similar compound is created by the milk drying

process?

[Guest guest]

On Monday 16 May 2005 8:06 am, Wanita Sears wrote:

> >>> I wondered if there could be an actual chemical causing the massive

> >

> > obesity

> > epidemic <<

> >

> > I dunno. This one doesn't work for me.

> >

> > I don't doubt for a moment that MSG is harmful, nor even that for some

> > people it might trigger problems that include obesity. But I don't think

> > there is a single smoking gun that accounts for the " obesity epidemic "

> > (which is a meme I'm questioning these days, actually, but that's another

> > story).

> >

> > Christie

>

> Thinking AHA! or one cause smoking gun is an accepted societal meme that is

> just the result of getting some of the answer to a question. Tied closely

> to the competitive memes of business and education that accepts and rewards

> individuals for an answer, even if it's an incomplete one.

>

> This book was written by parents because of their child's health problems

> which is an oddity to getting a book into print. Publishers want

> credentials or credentialed backing at least. Personal experience also to

> me adds something personal interest or specialization can leave out. The

> heart has to be working with the head.

>

> " Could be an actual chemical causing the massive obesity epidemic " is an

> open ended statement. " MSG is the actual " would close it. Speaking of

> actual, last week there was news about super sizing the obesity statistics

> by a University of Vermont researcher to get funding. Google, obesity

> Vermont, for details.

>

> Wanita

>

I understood the problem to have gotten worse when cane sugar was replaced

with corn syrup in many many products.

--

Steve - dudescholar1@...

" Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies. "

--Friedrich Nietzsche

[Guest guest]

--- Lynn Siprelle <lynn@...> wrote:

> The problem for me is that the Chinese have eaten piles of it for

> millennia and are not exactly roly-poly people.

They aren't exactly the last word in health, either.

Just because someone isn't obese doesn't mean they are healthy.

Have you ever noticed the teeth of some present generation Chinese?

Not the teeth that Dr. Price would have admired

-Pratick

P.S. Also, they couldn't possibly have eaten the modern-day industrial grade MSG

for a

" millennia " because it is produced by a very industrial process. They *may* have

eaten

the natural FGA (free glutamic acid) produced as a result of fermentation).

Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:

http://tour.mail./mailtour.html

[Guest guest]

Heidi --

--- Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

> I wonder if the Enfamils and other milk substitutes have MSG in

> them? Or if some similar compound is created by the milk drying

> process?

Sure they do !

And the MSG in infant formula is the worst kind because babies do not have the

blood-brain barrier.

Refer -

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/formulacopy.html

Googling " MSG infant formula " turns up scores of other links.

> There is a very strong link between obesity and

> premature infants ... preemies are rarely fed any breast milk,

> and the aritificial milk is started too early for their systems.

The reason babies fed infant formula (containing MSG) may be at a higher risk

for Type II

diabetes later in life is because MSG causes insulin resistence.

As does nitrites and nitrates - ubiquitous in all processed meats.

-Pratick

Discover

Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!

http://discover./stayintouch.html

[Guest guest]

>The reason babies fed infant formula (containing MSG) may be at a higher risk

for Type II

>diabetes later in life is because MSG causes insulin resistence.

>As does nitrites and nitrates - ubiquitous in all processed meats.

>

>-Pratick

Yeah, with the blood/brain thing THAT could be a smoking gun. I think

to make the rats fat for life the MSG has to get to their brain

when they are little rat pups. MSG in infant formula would

get to their brains ....

Like I keep saying, you can't have a healthy society until

women can breastfeed (without massive economic

consequences). In some more forward thinking countries

women are paid to stay home and take care of our little

human-pups (though they still probably use Enfamil more

than they should :-( )

Heidi Jean