Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 > I've finished reading the info at Dom's kefir website, and am just > about ready to get going > with kefir. I was talking to a lady near me who sells good raw goat > milk, and she was > saying that if I use my kefir grains in goat milk, and THEN try to use > 'em later on in cow > milk that it will KILL my kefir grains. Is this true? Not in my experience. Lynn S. ------ Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 reborn1000 <reborn1000@...> wrote: was talking to a lady near me who sells good raw goat > milk, and she was > saying that if I use my kefir grains in goat milk, and THEN try to > use 'em later on in cow > milk that it will KILL my kefir grains. Is this true? I've done this many many times and the grains are fine and don't seem to change (though the kefir is different). It might reassure you to know that kefir grains are pretty hardy. Though I've read here of people killing their grains accidently, I've only managed to do this once (by leaving them in the fridge for months) and I reckon that probably, if I could have been bothered, they would have revived. Helen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 31/01/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 ['] I was talking to a lady near me who sells good raw goat milk, and she was saying that if I use my kefir grains in goat milk, and THEN try to use 'em later on in cow milk that it will KILL my kefir grains. Is this true? I know that Dom said not to use milk grains in making " non milk " kefir, but I didn't think that there would be a problem going from a goat milk to a cow milk. Anyone know if what my goat milk lady said is true? [MAP] Hi ', what your goat milk lady said is absolute nonsense. The combined experiences of hundreds of people provide hundreds and hundreds of years of counterexamples to that bizarre claim lacking any scientific motivation whatsoever. The differences between milks from different animals are completely irrelevant to kefir. Mike SE Pennsylvania The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 I'm going to have to respecfully disagree with Mr. . My kefir grains, for whatever reason, die off every time I try to put them in raw goat milk. Goat milk which I have gotten from very pure sources, and two different farms with two diffeerent breed of goats. If I put the grains back into raw cow milk, they come back with a vengeance. Rebekah Re: Kefir changes okay? ['] I was talking to a lady near me who sells good raw goat milk, and she was saying that if I use my kefir grains in goat milk, and THEN try to use 'em later on in cow milk that it will KILL my kefir grains. Is this true? I know that Dom said not to use milk grains in making " non milk " kefir, but I didn't think that there would be a problem going from a goat milk to a cow milk. Anyone know if what my goat milk lady said is true? [MAP] Hi ', what your goat milk lady said is absolute nonsense. The combined experiences of hundreds of people provide hundreds and hundreds of years of counterexamples to that bizarre claim lacking any scientific motivation whatsoever. The differences between milks from different animals are completely irrelevant to kefir. Mike SE Pennsylvania The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay <HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN " " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " > <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B> <UL> <LI><B><A HREF= " / " >NATIVE NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.com/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire message archive with Onibasu</LI> </UL></FONT> <PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B> Idol <B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer Wanita Sears </FONT></PRE> </BODY> </HTML> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Rebekah, You say your milk grains die when you put them in your locally(?) obtained goat milk? Have you checked to see what those farms are putting ON their goats and/or their fields, as well as checking to see if the goats get antibiotics or any other chemicals injected or fed to them? Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Rebekah, I just reread you message and it stated the goat milk was from very pure sources. Nevermind my questions... Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Yes to all of that. No antibiotics, no steroids, no growth hormones, etc. They graze on grassy fields, rotated every 3 or so days, little to no supplemental feed. Fields are pretty wild, with some rare oversowing of grasses done periodically. Very rural areas, no close by cross-contamination from non-organic/non-biodynamic farms. Rebekah Re: Re: Kefir changes okay? Rebekah, You say your milk grains die when you put them in your locally(?) obtained goat milk? Have you checked to see what those farms are putting ON their goats and/or their fields, as well as checking to see if the goats get antibiotics or any other chemicals injected or fed to them? Darrell <HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN " " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " > <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B> <UL> <LI><B><A HREF= " / " >NATIVE NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.com/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire message archive with Onibasu</LI> </UL></FONT> <PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B> Idol <B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer Wanita Sears </FONT></PRE> </BODY> </HTML> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 At 10:44 AM 2/2/05 -0500, you wrote: > >Yes to all of that. No antibiotics, no steroids, no growth hormones, etc. They graze on grassy fields, rotated every 3 or so days, little to no supplemental feed. Fields are pretty wild, with some rare oversowing of grasses done periodically. Very rural areas, no close by cross-contamination from non-organic/non-biodynamic farms. > >Rebekah So what you're saying, then, is that your kefir grains are very picky eaters? Have they been talking to that picky 6-year old? :-D MFJ Once, poets were magicians. Poets were strong, stronger than warriors or kings - stronger than old hapless gods. And they will be strong once again. ~Greg Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 No ... just to my own picky 2, 5 and 6 year olds ! Rebekah So what you're saying, then, is that your kefir grains are very picky eaters? Have they been talking to that picky 6-year old? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 ['] I was talking to a lady near me who sells good raw goat milk, and she was saying that if I use my kefir grains in goat milk, and THEN try to use 'em later on in cow milk that it will KILL my kefir grains. Is this true? I know that Dom said not to use milk grains in making " non milk " kefir, but I didn't think that there would be a problem going from a goat milk to a cow milk. Anyone know if what my goat milk lady said is true? [MAP] Hi ', what your goat milk lady said is absolute nonsense. The combined experiences of hundreds of people provide hundreds and hundreds of years of counterexamples to that bizarre claim lacking any scientific motivation whatsoever. The differences between milks from different animals are completely irrelevant to kefir. [Rebekah] I'm going to have to respecfully disagree with Mr. . My kefir grains, for whatever reason, die off every time I try to put them in raw goat milk. Goat milk which I have gotten from very pure sources, and two different farms with two diffeerent breed of goats. If I put the grains back into raw cow milk, they come back with a vengeance. [MAP] It's an indisputable and trivial scientific fact that kefir grains work equally well in any milk, unless there's some species' milk that doesn't contain lactose! Just on these email groups alone you can find dozens, if not hundreds, of people who have successfully used goat and cow milk interchangeably, prominently including Dom. I have a feeling the disagreement comes from different concepts of kefir grain condition based on inference from sensory data about the kefir itself, but could you clarify what you mean by " die off " ? How were you able to determine this? Are you referring to the size of the grains? If so, how long did you test the goat milks? Are you referring to the consistency of the kefir? I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this experience. Mike SE Pennsylvania The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 [Rebekah] I'm going to have to respecfully disagree with Mr. . My kefir grains, for whatever reason, die off every time I try to put them in raw goat milk. Goat milk which I have gotten from very pure sources, and two different farms with two diffeerent breed of goats. If I put the grains back into raw cow milk, they come back with a vengeance. [MAP] It's an indisputable and trivial scientific fact that kefir grains work equally well in any milk, unless there's some species' milk that doesn't contain lactose! Just on these email groups alone you can find dozens, if not hundreds, of people who have successfully used goat and cow milk interchangeably, prominently including Dom. I have a feeling the disagreement comes from different concepts of kefir grain condition based on inference from sensory data about the kefir itself, but could you clarify what you mean by " die off " ? How were you able to determine this? Are you referring to the size of the grains? If so, how long did you test the goat milks? Are you referring to the consistency of the kefir? I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this experience. Mike SE Pennsylvania [Rebekah] What I'm calling die-off would be that the grains gradually get smaller in size, with each batch of kefir. In time, they seem to " disappear " all together. (This would take about 7-10 batches, which I usually leave out for 24 hours per batch.) By this time, the milk doesn't seem to change to the thickness and tart flavor I associate with kefir. The milk would just separate into curds and whey, like when I culture milk for cream cheese/whey, etc. I admit I'm new at the kefir thing, but I assumed that when the grains were invisible to the naked eye, and the kefir flavor wasn't there, that the grains were dead. However, when these same grains are placed in raw cow milk, they produce thick, tart kefir, and mass-produce themselves over and again, and are easy to see and filter out, to make more kefir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Rebekah wrote: >I'm going to have to respecfully disagree with Mr. . My kefir grains, for whatever reason, die off every time I try to put them in raw goat milk. Goat milk which I have gotten from very pure sources, and two different farms with two diffeerent breed of goats. If I put the grains back into raw cow milk, they come back with a vengeance. Here's a thought for you. The lady who I bought goat milk from was discussing containers with me one day. She said she could either use large plastic Coke containers or bleach bottles!!!!! I respectfully declined the bleach bottles. Not that I'm suggesting you bought your goat milk in bleach bottles, but could it be that the goat people are using bleach somewhere in their operation that is affecting the milk? I've kefired in raw cow milk, raw goat milk and all sorts of store-bought milk, and my grains are still thriving :-) and the K9's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 I suppose that is possible; I didn't ask them specifically what/if they use to clean their containers. I know both goat farms use new, unused plastic containers, either half or full gallon size. Maybe I'll ask the next time I order. Rebekah Re: Kefir changes okay? Rebekah wrote: >I'm going to have to respecfully disagree with Mr. . My kefir grains, for whatever reason, die off every time I try to put them in raw goat milk. Goat milk which I have gotten from very pure sources, and two different farms with two diffeerent breed of goats. If I put the grains back into raw cow milk, they come back with a vengeance. Here's a thought for you. The lady who I bought goat milk from was discussing containers with me one day. She said she could either use large plastic Coke containers or bleach bottles!!!!! I respectfully declined the bleach bottles. Not that I'm suggesting you bought your goat milk in bleach bottles, but could it be that the goat people are using bleach somewhere in their operation that is affecting the milk? I've kefired in raw cow milk, raw goat milk and all sorts of store-bought milk, and my grains are still thriving :-) and the K9's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Rebekah Dowd wrote: > I suppose that is possible; I didn't ask them specifically what/if they > use to clean their containers. I know both goat farms use new, unused > plastic containers, either half or full gallon size. Maybe I'll ask the > next time I order. > > Rebekah I should add that I fermented some goat milk from a neighbor, who was milking the goat for a foal and was NOT using any soap, bleach etc. Nevertheless, the kefir came out far *different* than it does for cow milk. I got some raw cow milk, and THAT comes out different than it does for pasteurized grocery store milk. Mind you, I can't drink milk myself, but I use the kefir for family members and chickens, and the grains for kefir beer. The goat milk would NOT get thick, though the kefir smelled ok. The raw cow milk kefir gets thick, but it smells very strong. I believe that either is fine for people, but ... bacteria are strange little creatures and they react differently to different media. My kefir grains survive fine an ANY milk, except non-organic commercial milk, in which media they simply stop growing. Organic ulta-pasteurized they love (no competition, methinks!). -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 The raw goat milk I have kefired ends up the consistency of gravy. It had to be kefired for a very long time, in my case, if I wanted the whey to separate. It must have something to do with the solids in goat milk being much smaller particles or " naturally homogenized " as many are fond of saying. Darrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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