Re: Gluten genes, was Smoking & Health

[Guest guest]

I'd like to know if celiac or GS or GI people would still react if

they ingested wheat that was *grown* in the Middle East.

Can anyone get some Middle Eastern wheat to Heidi--or another person

who would be willing to serve as a guinea pig? :-D

Isn't wheat a dryland crop? They used irrigation to grow it in the

Fertile Crescent, right?

I'm still pondering the fungus angle.

If you take a crop that was developed in a sunny, arid area, and grow

it in an area that gets less sun and more moisture, it will be prone

to harbor mold, right? Especially if it doesn't get sufficient lime

because it's raised with chemical fertilizers. So our wheat will be

more likely to be mold-friendly, if not outright contaminated with

mold.

I figure Middle Eastern people get more animal fat, sunshine,

lactofermented food (all antifungal) than most of us on this list. I

mean, people in Iran and Iraq probably don't use a lot of skim milk,

right? Aren't their dairy products probably full fat and fermented

and/or raw?

So if their wheat is less problematic, and they naturally have more

antifungal factors in their life, they will be less likely to

experience the genetic damage, right?

>

> >If indeed the

> >numbers are much higher than previously thought then it basically

shoots

> >down the notion of selective adaptation to gluten due to the

length of time

> >it's been consumed in various regions.

>

> Suze:

>

> Not necessarily shoots it down. The " adaptation " theory is based on

how prevalent the

> genes are, and AFAIK they are still rarer in the Middle East than

> in the northern countries. Some populations they never did TEST for

the

> celiac genes though, so it will be interesting to see what the true

genetic

> prevalence is in random testing. Genetic distribution isn't simple

either:

> they keep saying " celiac is rare in Africa " but in fact some of the

worst

> " outbreaks " have been in African populations that are suddenly

getting

> wheat (or higher gluten wheat). Even in a country that DOES eat

wheat,

> there are pockets of inbred people who get NO wheat. But 95% of the

> people with celiac have the genes and the relationship is very clear

> between the genes and the disease.

>

> And yeah, I agree with your earlier post, the " blood reactions " are

basically IgG.

> The relation to IgE allergies isn't so straightforward ... IgE

allergies to wheat

> are rather rare it seems, though IgG is common. It was interesting

that while

> I was travelling I got some gluten, and for the next few days I

started

> getting IgE allergy symptoms to dust etc, which is something I

don't normally

> get. I'm convinced there is a connection there, like maybe the body

is just

> on " high alert " once it's detected one allergen or something?

>

>

> Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Can anyone get some Middle Eastern wheat to Heidi--or another person

>who would be willing to serve as a guinea pig? :-D

Heh. Not me! My last experience with " visible " wheat was

way too scary ... like a bad LSD trip, it's not something one would

repeat voluntarily!

They have done tests though with purified amines, i.e.

a very very small purified peptide portion of wheat,

and pieces of gut in vitro. Trying to figure out what PART

of the protein is the problem. Some peptides do NOT

cause a reaction, which probably rules out fungi.

Some peptides cause the reaction. Those peptides can

be deaminated (i.e. changed) by fermentation. Those peptides

are also rarer in some wheats. The " warm weather " wheats

grown in the Middle East have less of the bad stuff in

them. The " hard wheat " grown in the US and Canada has

a LOT of the bad stuff. Not to mention they add MORE of

the bad stuff to commercial bread, to make it fluffy.

However, I also react to barley malt, which has hardly ANY

bad stuff in it, so I don't think " less " would work for me.

Not to mention it's just not an appealing proposition ... it's

like saying " Ok, we have this mercury preservative that has

been shown to not be harmful ... "

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> >Can anyone get some Middle Eastern wheat to Heidi--or another

person

> >who would be willing to serve as a guinea pig? :-D

>

> Heh. Not me! My last experience with " visible " wheat was

> way too scary ... like a bad LSD trip, it's not something one would

> repeat voluntarily!

>

> They have done tests though with purified amines, i.e.

> a very very small purified peptide portion of wheat,

> and pieces of gut in vitro. Trying to figure out what PART

> of the protein is the problem. Some peptides do NOT

> cause a reaction, which probably rules out fungi.

>

> Some peptides cause the reaction. Those peptides can

> be deaminated (i.e. changed) by fermentation. Those peptides

> are also rarer in some wheats. The " warm weather " wheats

> grown in the Middle East have less of the bad stuff in

> them. The " hard wheat " grown in the US and Canada has

> a LOT of the bad stuff. Not to mention they add MORE of

> the bad stuff to commercial bread, to make it fluffy.

>

> However, I also react to barley malt, which has hardly ANY

> bad stuff in it, so I don't think " less " would work for me.

> Not to mention it's just not an appealing proposition ... it's

> like saying " Ok, we have this mercury preservative that has

> been shown to not be harmful ... "

>

> Heidi Jean

I've eaten wheat grown in Sudan (20 years ago before I knew I had

the celiac gene). I was constantly sick (D, C, headaches, etc. all

the gluten symptoms) but I thought it was from the bubonic plague

they eventually found in my gut (diagnosed over a year after I got

back) or the constant dust in the air as it swept over the garbage

dump/latrine that was upwind from us. I was even sicker (toilet 6

times a day and exhausted) when we got back to " real bread " . I was

baking in both places, grinding my wheat in my grain grinder. The

Sudanese wheat did not make " fluffy " bread, the US high gluten wheat

did. I never even thought to blame the wheat then.

Connie

[Guest guest]

>I've eaten wheat grown in Sudan (20 years ago before I knew I had

>the celiac gene). I was constantly sick (D, C, headaches, etc. all

>the gluten symptoms) but I thought it was from the bubonic plague

>they eventually found in my gut (diagnosed over a year after I got

>back) or the constant dust in the air as it swept over the garbage

>dump/latrine that was upwind from us. I was even sicker (toilet 6

>times a day and exhausted) when we got back to " real bread " . I was

>baking in both places, grinding my wheat in my grain grinder. The

>Sudanese wheat did not make " fluffy " bread, the US high gluten wheat

>did. I never even thought to blame the wheat then.

>

>Connie

Wow, that SURE does not make me want to rush out and

visit Sudan!

Heidi Jean