Re: Nut addiction was RE: Re: Coconut Water

[Guest guest]

Ron,

() but maybe because once I start

> eating nuts, I can't

> stop, so I really tax my system with an overload. In some

> areas, I just

> have no self-discipline. <g>

(Ron) <<Okay. So what's up with this? I have a similar experience. I've

seen

others reporting the same thing.>>

() I'm trying to remember my history on this, and as usual there are

gaps, but I do recall making almond butter which I would OD on and then have

bad nights, waking with bad dreams. I'm not sure about the cause of my

difficulties -- the gallbladder overtaxed with the oils? Or I wonder if the

skins played a part. Certainly my digestion was bad for a very long time

(and still is when I don't eat *exactly* as I should) and I can remember at

one time actually using a knife to " skin " walnuts (which, now that I think

about it, I was soaking beforehand) -- all to no avail. When I was young,

there was a time when I just about lived on peanuts. I know they're really

legumes, but heck, they tasted like nuts. <g>

reminded me in a recent post that AV prohibits both nuts and seeds

(except in one special recipe used for some particular purpose)and I wonder

if that's because of digestive problems or for some other reason. I think

he doesn't recommend any oils from those sources, so maybe it's all a

question of the oils not working well for us.

Still, that wouldn't answer the question of why they were so addictive for

me or for others. Or maybe it would, and I just don't know enough to make

the link here between " not good for me " and an addictive kind of behavior. I

just remembered I used to OD on certain seed butters as well, esp. when I

added honey to them. Yeah, carbs, oils and sugars -- what's not to like? <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

,

Ahh. The phytates. Thanks.

Re: oils, he does like the olive oil as a cleansing " solvent " and now

coconut oil for the same purpose, since he's found a company that will

ferment (with no heat) the CO and they've sent him a signed document saying

they won't use chlorinated water in the processing. Of course, these folks

are in the ines, so I don't know how they cold be checked on either

point. Sometimes you just have to have faith. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

,

I get the feeling from what you wrote that there may have been two different

explorations into CO for AV. AFAIK, the latest approved product is this one

http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/virgin_coconut_oil_traditional.htm

It's pretty nice, I think, in smell and taste, but it's the first and only

CO I've ever had, so I have no basis for comparison.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>And another question for all of you SCDers and other nut eaters out there.

>How do you deal with the high volume of omega 6 PUFA's you are ingesting

>with the large quantity of nut flours that you all eat. Is this not a

>concern? Just take more fish oil?

Eating genuinely large amounts of nuts is unwise for the n6 reason you

point out, but simply adding extra n3 isn't a good idea either, because

PUFA overall should be kept to a necessary minimum. That said, there's far

more monounsaturated fat in almonds than polyunsaturated.

-

[Guest guest]

-

> reminded me in a recent post that AV prohibits both nuts and seeds

>(except in one special recipe used for some particular purpose)and I wonder

>if that's because of digestive problems or for some other reason.

AV's awfully fond of coconuts, though, which are, after all, nuts.

-

[Guest guest]

,

<AV's awfully fond of coconuts, though, which are, after all, nuts.

That's true! I have no idea why the discrepancy. I think he only pushes

the oil and cream, rather than the meat. Would those contain the phytates

suggested as his concern?

There are a number of his ideas I just never focused on when I adopted the

general principles of his diet. These were ideas about foods I had tried

before (like the almonds in SCD) and found just didn't work for me -- so I

didn't even bother to learn why he advised against them (or for them).

But now that you bring this question up, it makes me wonder if the coconut

oil is really helpful for me. I would never dream of trying to eat coconut

meat!

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

On 8/3/05, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> <AV's awfully fond of coconuts, though, which are, after all, nuts.

>

> That's true! I have no idea why the discrepancy. I think he only pushes

> the oil and cream, rather than the meat. Would those contain the phytates

> suggested as his concern?

No phytates in coconut products, including the meat, AFAIK.

" Many so-called botanical nuts are more appropriately termed " drupes "

or " dry drupes. " These " false nuts " are really the seed-bearing, hard,

inner layer (endocarp) of a fruit called a drupe. In dry drupes the

outer layer or husk sometimes splits open or withers. This outer husk

is part of the ovary wall (pericarp), and the hard inner wall

surrounding the seed represents the inner part of the pericarp. Dry

drupes are technically not true nuts because in true nuts the hard

outer wall constitutes the entire pericarp. The coconut (Cocos

nucifera) is a classic example of a dry drupe, with a thin, green,

outer layer called the exocarp, a thick, fibrous middle layer called

the mesocarp, and a very hard inner layer surrounding the large seed

called an endocarp. These same three layers are easily visible in

fleshy drupes such as the peach (Prunus persica), plum (P. domestica),

and apricot (P. armeniaca). Unshelled almonds (P. amygdalus) are seeds

still contained within an endocarp layer. "

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ecoph8.htm

> There are a number of his ideas I just never focused on when I adopted the

> general principles of his diet. These were ideas about foods I had tried

> before (like the almonds in SCD) and found just didn't work for me -- so I

> didn't even bother to learn why he advised against them (or for them).

Well that is probably a good thing. Kept you from some of the extremes

like gorging yourself with food throughout the day. I'm curious, do

you make high meat? (actually I should be asking this in the goat

cheese thread).

> But now that you bring this question up, it makes me wonder if the coconut

> oil is really helpful for me. I would never dream of trying to eat coconut

> meat!

Why not?

[Guest guest]

,

< " Many so-called botanical nuts are more appropriately termed " drupes "

or " dry drupes. "

You are a pretty amazing fund of knowledge. <g> Thanks.

<Well that is probably a good thing. Kept you from some of the extremes

like gorging yourself with food throughout the day.

I did a little overeating at first and it worked (where nothing else had --

because in the past I couldn't digest my foods) to bring my weight up from

the very unhealthy low point it had been. But I never could accept the

heavy gain/loss cycle idea and I'm very happy to be eating in a reasonable

way now, only a mealtimes

<I'm curious, do you make high meat? (actually I should be asking this in

the goat

cheese thread).

No. I did try to make the stuff (though I often forgot to air it outand so

delayed the progress), but as the fermentation (rot?) progressed, I just

thought " I can't do this. " I've had so many major gains on this diet, I

figured I would take an attitude of gratitude for those things and not

expect too much more of myself -- esp. at such emotional expense.

> I would never dream of trying to eat coconut

> meat!

Why not?

Just the experience of being unable to digest it. In that sense it seems to

be, like the peanut, a true nut for me. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> and I

> can remember at

> one time actually using a knife to " skin " walnuts (which, now

> that I think

> about it, I was soaking beforehand) -- all to no avail.

Good lord! Now that's dedication! How on earth did you get into all of the

little nooks and crannies? I can't imagine it.

> When

> I was young,

> there was a time when I just about lived on peanuts. I know

> they're really

> legumes, but heck, they tasted like nuts. <g>

Funny -- now that my digestion is clearing up I find that I do fine on just

about every nut but peanuts. ESPECIALLY if they aren't very, very fresh.

> Still, that wouldn't answer the question of why they were so

> addictive for

> me or for others.

I'm still interested in this. When I first started doing the Warrior Diet I

found myself finishing off all of my feasts with a bunch of nuts. Usually

Sally's crispy nuts. I wouldn't eat a ton but I would definitely eat quite

a few. When this new doctor told me to give them up I had the hardest time.

I felt completely unsatisfied when I went to bed. I just had to have the

nuts or I wasn't full. The worst of it has passed but I still don't

understand why I would have felt that way. Where was the addiction coming

from?

> Yeah, carbs, oils and sugars -- what's

> not to like? <g>

Now there you go. And that reminds me that the nuts I most used to abuse

were cashews which were high in carbs. I would buy them raw and dry roast

them myself. Tasted like candy. In fact, they were so good that we gave

them away as Christmas gifts to neighbors and such for the past two years.

When I would sit down and start in on the bag I'd eat them until I felt

sick.

Ron

[Guest guest]

On 8/3/05, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> < " Many so-called botanical nuts are more appropriately termed " drupes "

> or " dry drupes. "

>

> You are a pretty amazing fund of knowledge. <g> Thanks.

ur welcome

> <I'm curious, do you make high meat? (actually I should be asking this in

> the goat

> cheese thread).

>

> No. I did try to make the stuff (though I often forgot to air it outand so

> delayed the progress), but as the fermentation (rot?) progressed, I just

> thought " I can't do this. " I've had so many major gains on this diet, I

> figured I would take an attitude of gratitude for those things and not

> expect too much more of myself -- esp. at such emotional expense.

Yes there are better ways to do fermented meat than what AV suggests.

> > I would never dream of trying to eat coconut

> > meat!

>

> Why not?

>

> Just the experience of being unable to digest it. In that sense it seems to

> be, like the peanut, a true nut for me. <g>

Well you do know that peanuts aren't really nuts, right <G>

[Guest guest]

Ron,

> and I

> can remember at

> one time actually using a knife to " skin " walnuts (which, now

> that I think

> about it, I was soaking beforehand) -- all to no avail.>

<< Good lord! Now that's dedication! How on earth did you get into all of

the

little nooks and crannies? I can't imagine it.

Well, to begin with, I didn't do this at the beginning of a meal, when I was

hungry. <g>

And after a while I would give up on the nooks and crannies. But I had all

these wonderful, organic walnuts, and kept hoping if I got rid of the skins

(a process made only minimally easier with the soaking) I'd be able to

digest them. Eventually, I gave up and gave the walnuts away. Sometimes I

think that the food I've had to give away could alone have fed another human

being for a lifetime. <sigh>

> Still, that wouldn't answer the question of why they were so

> addictive for

> me or for others.

<<I'm still interested in this. When I first started doing the Warrior Diet

I

found myself finishing off all of my feasts with a bunch of nuts. Usually

Sally's crispy nuts. I wouldn't eat a ton but I would definitely eat quite

a few. When this new doctor told me to give them up I had the hardest time.

I felt completely unsatisfied when I went to bed. I just had to have the

nuts or I wasn't full. The worst of it has passed but I still don't

understand why I would have felt that way. Where was the addiction coming

from?

They say an addicted brain can use substitutes for what it craves, but

there's still a preference for the " drug of choice. " I did once read an

explanation of how the preference is established, which had something to

with how a toxic irritation can turn into a satisfaction and then a demand,

but that was about twenty years ago, and it was in scientific jargon --

making it about the last thing I'd remember and be able to explain today.

Sorry.

<When I would sit down and start in on the bag I'd eat them until I felt

sick.

Never underestimate the power of an addiction. I once saw a documentary

film about rats that were given some powerful drug (heroin, I think) which

they could access at will by pulling a lever. There were also levers for

food, water, and sex (the latter opening a door for a girl rat). It was

pitiful to watch these rats dying of dehydration and starvation while they

kept operating the drug lever.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

,

<Yes there are better ways to do fermented meat than what AV suggests.

But I'm not going to ask what they are. <g> I'm still trying to find out if

my goat's cheese is a problem for me, and if so, whether it's the

fermentation of the milk that is doing me in.

>> Just the experience of being unable to digest it. In that sense it seems

>> to

> be, like the peanut, a true nut for me. <g>

Well you do know that peanuts aren't really nuts, right <G>

Yes, that one I knew, which is why I compared it to the coconut. My take on

nuts is: if it looks like a nut, cracks like a nut, and tastes like a nut,

it's a nut. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> << Good lord! Now that's dedication! How on earth did you

> get into all of

> the

> little nooks and crannies? I can't imagine it.

>

> Well, to begin with, I didn't do this at the beginning of a

> meal, when I was

> hungry. <g>

Reminded me of trying to pick and eat hard-shell blue crab when you are

starving -- you just keep getting hungrier and hungrier no matter how many

you eat. Then you suddenly get queasy from all of the melted butter. LOL.

> They say an addicted brain can use substitutes for what it

> craves, but

> there's still a preference for the " drug of choice. " I did

> once read an

> explanation of how the preference is established, which had

> something to

> with how a toxic irritation can turn into a satisfaction and

> then a demand,

> but that was about twenty years ago, and it was in scientific

> jargon --

> making it about the last thing I'd remember and be able to

> explain today.

> Sorry.

Hmm. That's an interesting take. It's the addiction, not the food. Sort

of. I most certainly do have a history of addictions. Fortunately not to

the extent of the rats you described. And somehow I've managed to kick them

periodically. But there always has been a tendency to substitute one for

another.

So were are still back to the question of what it is that is in the nuts

that my body perceives as facilitating and addiction.

Ron