Re: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

November 4, 2005

Tom, this is my preference too:

> For several years I haven't taken any daily supplements owing to my

> belief that I should be spending my money on good food, not

supplements.

Did you ever experiment with whole-food mega dosing?

Rose hips, that sort of thing.

Thanks for the story BTW! very illuminating.

I don't get sick any more either and would like it to stay that way.

It's turned into a game for me like keeping a balloon afloat - how

resilient can I make my immune system??

Connie

November 5, 2005

hello thomas,

would you mind please telling me what the purpose for the baking soda in this

" cocktail " is?

thanks,

angel

Message: 22

Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:13:47 -0600

From: " L. Jeanne " <t.l.jeanne@...>

Subject: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

" ... In a glass I mixed about 16g of

ascorbic acid and about 7g of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and added

water.... "

November 6, 2005

Angel,

Ascorbic acid in water is very acidic. This is fine for your stomach but

not so nice for your mouth, teeth, and esophagus so the purpose of

baking soda is to neutralize the acid. It's also very sour and gets

unpleasant if you're drinking glass after glass of it.

Ascorbic acid + sodium bicarbonate = sodium ascorbate, which is simply a

different form of vitamin C. In 1000 mg of sodium ascorbate there is 111

mg of sodium and 889 mg of ascorbate.

Tom

hotmail angelznest wrote:

> hello thomas,

>

> would you mind please telling me what the purpose for the baking soda in this

" cocktail " is?

>

> thanks,

> angel

>

> Message: 22

> Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:13:47 -0600

> From: " L. Jeanne " <t.l.jeanne@...>

> Subject: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

>

> " ... In a glass I mixed about 16g of

> ascorbic acid and about 7g of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and added

> water.... "

>

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November 6, 2005

thanks tom! makes sense now. i get it.

by the way - where do you get your ascorbic acid powder from? i'm still using

the 1000mg tabs and i have a feeling that the powder is better/easier/faster

utilized but haven't found a source yet.

also, i've heard so many times that our body can't absorb huge amounts (1000+mg)

at one time and the rest is just wasted because our body will just push the

excess through our urine.

you obviously don't believe this since you are taking high doses many times a

day. what do you think the top quantity of use would be at any one dosing?

thanks again, tom.

angel

From: " L. Jeanne " <t.l.jeanne@...>

Angel,

Ascorbic acid in water is very acidic. This is fine for your stomach but

not so nice for your mouth, teeth, and esophagus so the purpose of

baking soda is to neutralize the acid. It's also very sour and gets

unpleasant if you're drinking glass after glass of it.

Ascorbic acid + sodium bicarbonate = sodium ascorbate, which is simply a

different form of vitamin C. In 1000 mg of sodium ascorbate there is 111

mg of sodium and 889 mg of ascorbate.

Tom

hotmail angelznest wrote:

> hello thomas,

>

> would you mind please telling me what the purpose for the baking soda in this

" cocktail " is?

>

> thanks,

> angel

>

> Message: 22

> Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 12:13:47 -0600

> From: " L. Jeanne " <t.l.jeanne@...>

> Subject: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

>

> " ... In a glass I mixed about 16g of

> ascorbic acid and about 7g of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and added

> water.... "

>

November 7, 2005

Angel:

A couple of years ago I bought a 3 lb bottle of ascorbic acid powder

(see link below). $40 but hey, we're talking about 3 lbs of pure vitamin

C! I have at least a quarter of the bottle left.

http://www.nowfoods.com/?action=itemdetail & item_id=3656

My local independent pharmacy carries it but if you can't find it I know

you can get powder online, possibly cheaper than this too, and in

smaller sizes if you like. BTW I'm only taking two 1000 mg ascorbic acid

pills daily at the moment, the megadosing is ONLY when you're sick.

The page below should help you understand the theory behind megascorbate

therapy. As far as absorption, you're right, there's a limit to how fast

one can absorb vitamin C, but if you are SICK that limit is much, much

higher since your body needs all the extra! That's the idea behind

titration to bowel tolerance. Give more and more C until you see

diarrhea, and that's the amount you need. If you're really sick with the

flu or something worse, you need massive amounts of C, and in such a

case intravenous sodium ascorbate is the only way to go, if only to save

the stress on your bowels.

http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

Also, his main page is pretty cluttered and " loud " but it has lots of

info and links if you care to learn more:

http://www.orthomed.com/

Cathcart and others also claim that vitamin C is an absolute viricide.

Meaning given enough vitamin C, the body can conquer a viral infection

with ease. Theoretically this would apply even to Ebola, which has an

80% mortality rate. As long as you can supply enough vitamin C to the

blood you'll live. Ebola infection results in massive hemmorhaging or

internal bleeding. Which, if you think about it, could be considered an

extreme case of scurvy (acute vitamin C deficiency): the symptoms of

scurvy include bleeding gums, loss of teeth, nosebleeds, bruising,

hemorrhages in any part of the body, easy infections, poor healing of

wounds, deterioration of joints, brittle and painful bones, etc.

I certainly don't think vitamin C is the answer to all our health

problems--far from it--but its importance is grossly underestimated.

Tom

hotmail angelznest wrote:

> thanks tom! makes sense now. i get it.

>

> by the way - where do you get your ascorbic acid powder from? i'm still using

the 1000mg tabs and i have a feeling that the powder is better/easier/faster

utilized but haven't found a source yet.

>

> also, i've heard so many times that our body can't absorb huge amounts

(1000+mg) at one time and the rest is just wasted because our body will just

push the excess through our urine.

>

> you obviously don't believe this since you are taking high doses many times a

day. what do you think the top quantity of use would be at any one dosing?

>

> thanks again, tom.

>

> angel

>

November 8, 2005

>

> I love how hardcore megadoses of C are. To think, the USRDA is 60

> milligrams per day, and here you are taking 16 GRAMS per hour! But if

> you look at it as a macronutrient, 16g isn't all that much. The

> Wikipedia entry on vitamin C provides a good overview and mentions the

> notion that C could more properly be considered a macronutrient than a

> vitamin in humans. It's really fascinating that we can't produce

vitamin

> C, unlike almost every other animal and plant, and it's amazing that we

> can do as well as we can without endogenous vitamin C synthesis.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_c

>

> Tom

>

Well this is an interesting quote:

" For example an adult goat will manufacture more than 13,000 mg of

vitamin C per day in normal health and as much as 100,000 mg daily

when faced with life-threatening disease, trauma or stress. Trauma or

injury has been demonstrated to use up large quantities of vitamin C

in animals and man. "

unfortunately it's hard to get that much vitamin C in food even though

it is especially easy to get the rda from food.

Ari

November 8, 2005

It's impossible to get 100g of vitamin C in a day from food alone! 13g

would be practically impossible as well; for example it would require

eating 185 oranges in a day if an orange has 70mg of C.

So this is why the theory came about that humans have a genetic " defect "

that makes us unable to produce adequate vitamin C. It hasn't seemed to

stop the human race, though.

Tom

arielb53 wrote:

> Well this is an interesting quote:

> " For example an adult goat will manufacture more than 13,000 mg of

> vitamin C per day in normal health and as much as 100,000 mg daily

> when faced with life-threatening disease, trauma or stress. Trauma or

> injury has been demonstrated to use up large quantities of vitamin C

> in animals and man. "

>

> unfortunately it's hard to get that much vitamin C in food even though

> it is especially easy to get the rda from food.

> Ari

November 8, 2005

>

> It's impossible to get 100g of vitamin C in a day from food alone! 13g

> would be practically impossible as well; for example it would require

> eating 185 oranges in a day if an orange has 70mg of C.

>

> So this is why the theory came about that humans have a genetic " defect "

> that makes us unable to produce adequate vitamin C. It hasn't seemed to

> stop the human race, though.

>

> Tom

it wouldn't be a defect if it simply meant we didn't need so much

vitamin C in the first place. We'd be more efficient

November 9, 2005

Tom,

I thought the theory came about because we are the only mammal that

doesn't produce our own vitamin C. Even chimps do, from what I

understand.

-Lana

> So this is why the theory came about that humans have a genetic " defect "

> that makes us unable to produce adequate vitamin C. It hasn't seemed to

> stop the human race, though.

>

> Tom

November 9, 2005

It's impossible to get 100g of vitamin C in a day from food alone! 13g

would be practically impossible as well; for example it would require

eating 185 oranges in a day if an orange has 70mg of C.

So this is why the theory came about that humans have a genetic " defect "

that makes us unable to produce adequate vitamin C. It hasn't seemed to

stop the human race, though.

Tom

arielb53 wrote:

> Well this is an interesting quote:

> " For example an adult goat will manufacture more than 13,000 mg of

> vitamin C per day in normal health and as much as 100,000 mg daily

> when faced with life-threatening disease, trauma or stress. Trauma or

> injury has been demonstrated to use up large quantities of vitamin C

> in animals and man. "

>

> unfortunately it's hard to get that much vitamin C in food even though

> it is especially easy to get the rda from food.

> Ari

November 9, 2005

According to Wikipedia the tiny group of animals that don't produce

their own vitamin C includes apes (gorillas, chimps, orangutans, humans,

and the lesser apes), guinea pigs, the red-vented bulbul, a fruit-eating

bat and a species of trout.

Tom

Lana Gibbons wrote:

>Tom,

>

>I thought the theory came about because we are the only mammal that

>doesn't produce our own vitamin C. Even chimps do, from what I

>understand.

>

>-Lana

>

>> So this is why the theory came about that humans have a genetic " defect "

>> that makes us unable to produce adequate vitamin C. It hasn't seemed to

>> stop the human race, though.

>>

>> Tom

>>

>

November 9, 2005

somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra complete flavinoids can

easily have multiple times more vitamin c . Apparently vitamin c dissipates

quickly which means that eating a fresh orange whole has far more nutrient than

just the juice after even a short time sitting.

November 9, 2005

Hm maybe that's why rose hips are ready in time for cold and flu

season. In my town anyway. I could just graze the back yard.

Connie

>

> somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra complete

flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin c . Apparently

vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a fresh orange

whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after even a short time

sitting.

>

November 9, 2005

you **may** think you are kidding...

Re: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

Hm maybe that's why rose hips are ready in time for cold and flu

season. In my town anyway. I could just graze the back yard.

Connie

>

> somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra complete

flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin c . Apparently

vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a fresh orange

whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after even a short time

sitting.

>

November 10, 2005

makes you wonder? good, I like to be a woman of mystery.

who was it who said, " never tell anyone everything "

mwha ha ha ha

> >

> > somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra

complete

> flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin c .

Apparently

> vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a fresh

orange

> whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after even a

short time

> sitting.

> >

November 10, 2005

I think it was the person who got regulated to the corner without milk or

cookies while waiting to go back to Kgarten to learn the basics of human

interaction...

wasn't much fun

:-(

Re: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

makes you wonder? good, I like to be a woman of mystery.

who was it who said, " never tell anyone everything "

mwha ha ha ha

> >

> > somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra

complete

> flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin c .

Apparently

> vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a fresh

orange

> whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after even a

short time

> sitting.

> >

November 10, 2005

I think it was the popular one at the center of the group who had

already learned when to share and when to be discreet. If I told

everyone everything no one would tell me anything! now that is no

fun.

Connie

> >

> > you **may** think you are kidding...

> >

> > Re: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy

[Long]

> >

> > Hm maybe that's why rose hips are ready in time for cold and

flu

> > season. In my town anyway. I could just graze the back yard.

> >

> > Connie

> >

> > --- In , <panamabob@S...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra

> complete

> > flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin c .

> Apparently

> > vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a fresh

> orange

> > whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after even a

> short time

> > sitting.

> > >

November 10, 2005

oh yeah, the Copernicus dude, no wait, he was the one that broke up the " center

rules' concept... of course the center-rules-people didn't play nice with him

cause he wanted to change the party rules...

Of course from then on Human kind had the burden of a new inferiority complex,

which gave rise to psycho-babble

:-))

Re: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

I think it was the popular one at the center of the group who had

already learned when to share and when to be discreet. If I told

everyone everything no one would tell me anything! now that is no

fun.

Connie

> > >

> > > somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra

> complete

> > flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin c .

> Apparently

> > vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a fresh

> orange

> > whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after even a

> short time

> > sitting.

> > >

November 10, 2005

fun?

Re: My Experience with Megascorbate Therapy [Long]

lolol thanks for that one, this has gotten over the top - too fun

> > > >

> > > > somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra

> > complete

> > > flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin

c .

> > Apparently

> > > vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a

fresh

> > orange

> > > whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after

even a

> > short time

> > > sitting.

> > > >

November 10, 2005

lolol thanks for that one, this has gotten over the top - too fun

> > > >

> > > > somewhere i read that ultra fresh foods with the extra

> > complete

> > > flavinoids can easily have multiple times more vitamin

c .

> > Apparently

> > > vitamin c dissipates quickly which means that eating a

fresh

> > orange

> > > whole has far more nutrient than just the juice after

even a

> > short time

> > > sitting.

> > > >

November 16, 2005

Tom-

>My signs and symptoms seem stronger than most people's (although

>according to one school of thought that means my immune system is

>stronger) and a cold will always last at least five days if not two

>weeks.

I'd be EXTREMELY skeptical of the idea that greater misery = greater

health, particularly because your colds last so long.

>My treatment consisted of: hydrogen peroxide in ears, zinc lozenges, and

>megascorbate therapy.

Sounds like a good treatment protocol. The only problem is that many

people will experience digestive distress from megadoses of vitamin C.

-

November 16, 2005

Idol wrote:

> I'd be EXTREMELY skeptical of the idea that greater misery = greater

> health, particularly because your colds last so long.

>

Well I am skeptical, but I haven't read conclusive evidence that refutes

that theory so I still consider it a possibility. However, one could

argue that just because one has stronger visible cold symptoms than the

next person doesn't mean that one is experiencing greater misery than

said next person! I may have ten times more snot and sneeze ten times

harder but if I get 100% better in a week or two versus feeling tired

and achey for a month that may = less misery!

>>My treatment consisted of: hydrogen peroxide in ears, zinc lozenges, and

>>megascorbate therapy.

>

> Sounds like a good treatment protocol. The only problem is that many

> people will experience digestive distress from megadoses of vitamin C.

>

Yep, but as I said, I much prefer a day and a half of mild bowel

discomfort over days and days of cold symptoms. Also, if I could

fine-tune the dosage a bit I could probably reduce the bowl distress

noticeably.

BTW, what is your (or anyone's) opinion of echinacea?

Tom

November 16, 2005

>

> > I'd be EXTREMELY skeptical of the idea that greater misery = greater

> > health, particularly because your colds last so long.

> >

>

> Well I am skeptical, but I haven't read conclusive evidence that

refutes

> that theory so I still consider it a possibility. However, one could

> argue that just because one has stronger visible cold symptoms than the

> next person doesn't mean that one is experiencing greater misery than

> said next person! I may have ten times more snot and sneeze ten times

> harder but if I get 100% better in a week or two versus feeling tired

> and achey for a month that may = less misery!

>

and I thought a 1 week cold is bad. Any longer than that and I begin

to wonder if I had the flu.

My goal this fall/winter is not to get a cold. So far so good even

though I certainly didn't eat the foods that I wanted to or avoid

certain others...there were a few days the other month when I needed

to keep a box of tissues nearby but I think it was a seasonal allergy.

I didn't 'feel' sick.

I'd be a little worried if all it takes is a cold to knock you out for

a month. I once got pneumonia and that is nasty (probably got it from

a combination of being near a cousin who had a cold plus I ended up

sleeping in an air conditioned room when the temp dropped from 90's to

around 45 F and didn't adjust the settings...long story)

Ari

November 17, 2005

Tom-

>I may have ten times more snot and sneeze ten times

>harder but if I get 100% better in a week or two versus feeling tired

>and achey for a month that may = less misery!

A MONTH? Who on earth is sick with a cold for a month? Are there

really people like that? I'd definitely say you're better off than

such miserable unfortunates, but a week or two still sounds very high

to me, and the fact that you're getting colds at all tells me that

something's wrong. I'm the furthest thing from a paragon of good

health, but I never get colds, and I only get sick at all if I go for

several weeks or a month without more than a couple hours of sleep a

night. (Or if I'm exposed to lots of mold or maybe other heavy pollutants.)

>BTW, what is your (or anyone's) opinion of echinacea?

If your guts are in good shape, go for it, but finding genuinely good

echinacea is something of a challenge.

-

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