Re: Sweetening ferments? Good or bad?

[Guest guest]

Lana,

Taking a quick stab at this..

Which of the " ferments " are you finding you need to sweeten? Are you adding

sweetening agents when consuming, or to the fermenting mixture?

If adding to the whole batch of ferments, the following might be helpful.

If you're just meaning you add sweetener to a small amount on your plate,

skip on down to my signature. LOL.

Off the top of my head - Here's an extreme, but fun to think about -

Personally, unless you're running your car on it, I wouldn't add sugar -

bioethanol is a result of sugar fermentation of various crops including

corn, wheat, Jerusalem artichoke, etc. Also, keep in mind, the yeast in the

healthy ferments will convert the sugars to alcohol - think beer & wine

making.

If you have any yeast (Candida Albicans) issues in your own system, the

sugar, whatever form, won't do you any favors. We need a molecular

biologist for this, but if I remember right, too much sugar in the ferment

STOPS the good yeast from performing fermentation, making your ferments into

what would be called a " hostile environment " , a popular term among

winemakers (we've been taking classes, making our own wine, trying to learn

about all this). I try to read winemaking sites when trying to understand

ferments, etc. Here's an example of a good read:

http://home.att.net/~lumeisenman/chapt13.html

Also, IF I am reading the following abstract correctly, a " sugar-fermenting "

system allows glutamine to greatly increase. This occurs naturally in

fermented foods, but unless your motive is to commercially produce

high-yield glutamine, I just wouldn't go there. :-)

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=106798

I was telling a friend, the other night, a about my husband's grandparents -

strict evangelical ministers who had a hissy-fit at our wedding when I

served sparkling apple cider, in lieu of wine, but yet they found the

" alcohol-shaped bottles " to be highly objectionable. Yet they, throughout

my husband's childhood, fermented fruits in a huge crock in their basement.

The alcohol fumes could have knocked you looney-tunes from 20-feet away, yet

they religiously, so to speak, served this to any and all company over ice

cream, cake, etc. I think they coined the term " kick it up to notches

unknown " long before Emeril, weekly adding sugar to " make it stronger " .

But oh, if you dared to offer wine.*shiver*.ignorance is bliss. Or maybe

it was denial.

HTH.

-Sharon, NH

Deut 11:14 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

Sweetening ferments? Good or bad?

Hello all,

I've been trying more and more ferments and finding it neccesary to

sweeten most of them slightly. I should probably add that some of

these ferments have been in the refridgerator a while (although, I

liked some of them that way). I add things like honey or unrefined

organic sugar to taste. I just want to make sure I'm not killing off

anything good.

Thanks!

-Lana

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I was telling a friend, the other night, a about my husband's

grandparents -

> strict evangelical ministers who had a hissy-fit at our wedding when I

> served sparkling apple cider, in lieu of wine, but yet they found the

> " alcohol-shaped bottles " to be highly objectionable. Yet they,

throughout

> my husband's childhood, fermented fruits in a huge crock in their

basement.

> The alcohol fumes could have knocked you looney-tunes from 20-feet

away, yet

> they religiously, so to speak, served this to any and all company

over ice

> cream, cake, etc. I think they coined the term " kick it up to notches

> unknown " long before Emeril, weekly adding sugar to " make it

stronger " .

> But oh, if you dared to offer wine.*shiver*.ignorance is bliss.

Or maybe

> it was denial.

>

oh I am sure they knew what they were getting into

but I'm not sure if the alcohol in fermented fruits would be enough to

intoxicate someone

[Guest guest]

From bananas to plums, fruits have been fermented for thousands of years.

Have you never read of drunken primates, imbibing in overly ripe fruit?

Dietary ethanol is the search term, if you're interested. Alcohol contents

of fermented fruit juices range anywhere from 3% to 10%. Maybe that

wouldn't find you running around with a lampshade on your head, but for

children, it just may do something.

-Sharon, NH

Deut 11:14 He will put grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will

have plenty to eat.

-----Original Message-----

oh I am sure they knew what they were getting into

but I'm not sure if the alcohol in fermented fruits would be enough to

intoxicate someone

[Guest guest]

On 11/11/05, Sharon son <sharon@...> wrote:

> From bananas to plums, fruits have been fermented for thousands of years.

> Have you never read of drunken primates, imbibing in overly ripe fruit?

> Dietary ethanol is the search term, if you're interested. Alcohol contents

> of fermented fruit juices range anywhere from 3% to 10%. Maybe that

> wouldn't find you running around with a lampshade on your head, but for

> children, it just may do something.

>

> -Sharon, NH

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1639965,00.html

Love it.

[Guest guest]

> Which of the " ferments " are you finding you need to sweeten? Are you

> adding

> sweetening agents when consuming, or to the fermenting mixture?

About everything. LOL! The ginger slices I made, the grated daikon

radish, even my steel cut oats. I usually sweeten it right before

consuming, but if I don't eat it all it goes back into the

refrigerator.

Thanks for the links, they're very informative! I should probably

just get myself used to a small amount of ferment mixed into a larger

amount of the same foodstuff before trying to eat some of these

straight.

It almost makes me wonder if I have bad bacteria asking for sweeter ferments...

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Lana-

>I add things like honey or unrefined

>organic sugar to taste. I just want to make sure I'm not killing off

>anything good.

With raw honey I guess it's possible that you might be killing off

some good bugs, but I wouldn't take that as an argument to use sugar

either... A definite conundrum. I just use a little saccharin in

those situations, honestly.

-

[Guest guest]

Saccharin?!? Why not use stevia?

Lynne M

____

On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:56 PM, Idol wrote:

>

> With raw honey I guess it's possible that you might be killing off

> some good bugs, but I wouldn't take that as an argument to use sugar

> either... A definite conundrum. I just use a little saccharin in

> those situations, honestly.

>

>

>

>

> -

--

Lynne Muelle

lynne@...

[Guest guest]

Lynne-

>Saccharin?!? Why not use stevia?

IMO the fears about saccharin are extremely overblown, and while

there's no positive reason to avoid stevia, that's only because

there's no safety data on it. Moreover, it's a glycoside in the same

family as digitalis, so it almost certainly has physiological

effects, most or all of which are unknown. Admittedly I do use it

from time to time, but I think saccharin is a safer bet.

-

[Guest guest]

,

I am not well informed about what things mean in plain ole English.

Could yo please explain what this really MEANS:

> Moreover, it's a glycoside in the same

> family as digitalis, so it almost certainly has physiological

> effects, most or all of which are unknown.

And why would Sally F not know about all that and recommend it as

definitely desireable to use in NT?

Thanks,

Lynne M

_______

On Nov 18, 2005, at 1:15 PM, Idol wrote:

> Lynne-

>

> IMO the fears about saccharin are extremely overblown, and while

> there's no positive reason to avoid stevia, that's only because

> there's no safety data on it. Moreover, it's a glycoside in the same

> family as digitalis, so it almost certainly has physiological

> effects, most or all of which are unknown. Admittedly I do use it

> from time to time, but I think saccharin is a safer bet.

>

> -

--

Lynne Muelle

lynne@...

[Guest guest]

Lynne-

>I am not well informed about what things mean in plain ole English.

>Could yo please explain what this really MEANS:

> > Moreover, it's a glycoside in the same

> > family as digitalis, so it almost certainly has physiological

> > effects, most or all of which are unknown.

A glycoside is just a kind of compound derived from sugar. The

problem is that some glycosides have powerful physiological effects,

and stevia contains glycosides which are closely related to

digitalis, which is a very powerful cardiac stimulant still used

medicinally for some heart patients. We don't know for sure that

stevia has physiological effects because nobody's done any research

to speak of on it, but it very well might.

>And why would Sally F not know about all that and recommend it as

>definitely desireable to use in NT?

She's not omniscient. Nobody is.

-

[Guest guest]

>> And why would Sally F not know about all that and recommend it as

>> definitely desireable to use in NT?

>

> She's not omniscient. Nobody is.

She's not?! omigod, I've been basing my life on a lie!

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky *

http://www.siprelle.com

http://www.thenewhomemaker.com * http://www.oregonmediainsiders.com *

http://www.knitting911.net