Re: SCD's fruit juice gelatin

[Guest guest]

SCD's fruit juice gelatin

What do y'all think of " jell-o " made with fruit juice? It's made with

just gelatin and fruit juice and it's part of the SCD, right from the

beginning intro phase. It doesn't seem to line up with NT, which says

stay away from fruit juices. I just started SCD yesterday and I made

the gelatin, mostly for the kids and b/c I figure that gelatin itself is

good, but it concerns me.

Steph

=================

Steph,

The problem of fruit juice of course is all that concentrated fructose.\

I see no reason why you can't juice, say, apples or whatever other fruit you

want to juice, add water to the juice, and then add the pulp back in to the

entire mixture before it gels. It would be kind of like fruit jello.

Or, you could make the concoction with half apple cider and half water and

mixed fruit. With a little shredded coconut added (the fat will help prevent

the sugar from being metabolized too quickly.) Hmm, it sounds quite tasty.

Think I'll go do that myself.

Nenah

[Guest guest]

>What do y'all think of " jell-o " made with fruit juice? It's made with

>just gelatin and fruit juice and it's part of the SCD, right from the

>beginning intro phase. It doesn't seem to line up with NT, which says

>stay away from fruit juices. I just started SCD yesterday and I made

>the gelatin, mostly for the kids and b/c I figure that gelatin itself is

>good, but it concerns me.

>

>Steph

For starters I don't agree with the biology behind SCD, so

I'm a bad person to comment probably! I do like fruit juice

jello, though I'd be more likely to use whole pulped fruit

that has the fiber intact, or fermented cider. We drink very

little unfermented fruit juice, and most of what we juice is berries which

aren't high sugar anyway. When my Mom made jello she put

in shredded cabbage, which is my favorite way to have it, but

I don't digest raw cabbage will anymore and haven't found

something similarly crunchy (lettuce maybe?).

Fructose though, is very difficult for a LOT of people

to digest. When doing hydrogen breath tests, it

turns out a lot of people lack the enzyme to break it

down properly, and so eating a lot of fructose can cause

the diarrhea etc. that Gottschall associates with longer-chain

sugars (and for the same reasons: bacterial growth). If it

doesn't seem to cause you problems though, fruit

can be good stuff.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Steph-

>What do y'all think of " jell-o " made with fruit juice? It's made with

>just gelatin and fruit juice and it's part of the SCD, right from the

>beginning intro phase. It doesn't seem to line up with NT, which says

>stay away from fruit juices. I just started SCD yesterday and I made

>the gelatin, mostly for the kids and b/c I figure that gelatin itself is

>good, but it concerns me.

I'd use un-sweet fruit, cut down on the amount of juice and add some

cream. There are cream jello recipes which are quite delicious.

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nenah, Heidi and !

I made this batch with kefired apple juice watered down and I may try

adding applesauce to it once we're off the intro phase. I can't do

cream because of a casein allergy, which I'm hoping (dreaming?) can be

fixed at some point.

Steph

[Guest guest]

Hi Heidi,

>For starters I don't agree with the biology behind SCD, so

>I'm a bad person to comment probably!

>

Would you mind 'splaining why you don't agree with the SCD biology; for

a physical science type person, if you please.

TIA,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>Would you mind 'splaining why you don't agree with the SCD biology; for

>a physical science type person, if you please.

>

>TIA,

>Deanna

Well, my science might not be up to yours, and I've hashed this out

a lot of times with and don't want to cause major offense, but

here's my take for what it is worth:

1. SCD states: longer chain polysaccharides aren't good for you,

because they aren't digested as well and feed " bad bacteria " .

My reading: *ANY* food that doesn't get digested well will

overfeed bacteria, but the foods that don't get digested well

are not necessarily polysaccharides. Fructose is a major culprit too,

for some people.

Also, research has shown that those " long chain polysaccharides " ,

such as " resistant starch " are associated with BETTER gut health

than simple sugars and starches are.

2. SCD: Food intolerances are the result of the wrong bacterial

activity.

ME: Food intolerances are often the *cause* of dysbioisis,

esp. the gluten intolerance that flattens the villi. Gottschall believes

gluten intolerance is the result of dysbiosis, but there is 25 years

of research that shows a tight connection between gluten intolerance

and genetics, and that it is basically triggered by a protein, not a starch.

3: SCD: The SCD will cure most people.

ME: The SCD has a lot of allergens in it, notably casein and eggs,

which will be problematic for a lot of people.

4. SCD: You have to " starve out " the bad bacteria.

ME: You have more bacteria in your gut than you have

in your whole body, and they all eat basically the same foods,

both the good and the bad ones. You CAN change your

gut ecology, and SHOULD, but you'll never " starve " the

bacteria.

Usually how people get well in the long run is to fix their

digestion, which might mean enzymes, HCL, probiotics, different

foods. If the right food gets absorbed at the right times,

the bacteria do fine.

Also, it is my understanding that Gottschall regards mos

bacterial activity as bad, and most of what I've read is that

much of our vitamins and butyrate etc. are produced *by*

bacteria: they are an integral part of our digestive process

as much as they are for cows.

5: SCD: Gets rid of all starches, esp. the ones that digest slowly.

ME: Some starches are fine, esp. the ones that digest slowly.

6. SCD: Gliadin isn't a problem. It's the STARCH in wheat that is a problem.

ME: If you are allergic to gliadin, you have to be obsessively careful

to avoid it or you won't heal. Gluten is found in many low- or no-starch foods.

This is where I really, really think Gottschall does a disservice to celiacs:

they read her book and believe they can be " cured " of celiac, and there

really isn't any scientific basis for that belief (and some good evidence to

the contrary). You CAN " get over " IgG allergies, it seems, at least sometimes,

but the IgA allergy is so silent that there really isn't a way to know that

it is " cured " at any rate. Blood tests of folks that SAY they are cured

though, show high levels of antigliadin IgA, so the chances are, it just

doesn't go away.

That said, I DO tend to agree that a diet lower in starches

is a good idea, and I know my gut really really does not

like finely ground starch in large quantities ... and in fact

that kind of starch/flour/baked goods are considered

very very bad for pigs even for about the same reasons.

I don't have any simple rating for what starches work

and which don't though ... yam noodles get along with

me just fine and gf crackers don't (though a few are ok).

I also think that some of the people who get really, really

sick from starches have an allergy to some bacteria ... it's

an IgA allergy just like the gluten allergy, and those folks

really won't get better until they get rid of that bacteria

(which sometimes involves a VERY low starch diet, or

antibiotics, or massive probiotics).

Going on a VERY restricted diet also makes it easier to

figure out what is bothering you, so that is a decent idea too.

Taking pascalite or Pepto Bismol or kefir beer though has been

a much faster and more reliable way for me to get my

gut bacteria in shape than anything else I've tried. There is no

one thing that works for everyone though, the biochemistry

of folks is too different.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Cream in the jello?! OH YEAH! will try that.

I got rather interested in SCD after posted the link for the

dripped yoghurt and was thinking of getting the book. Heidi's thoughts

have thrown me off. I was wondering what the good bacteria eat if

everything's being digested up front, you know? Might still get it

though. The diet progesses onto almond flour recipes instead of wheat,

or other grain flour, doesn't it? That seems to sit well with me. I'm

still not totally convinced that grains are ok for even some people.

Wish almond flour wasn't as pricey though.

I made the fruit juice jello the other day 50/50 juice water. I usually

read a recipe, think it's a good idea, but never follow through. This

time I've made the jello and I've been dripping the well-fermented kefir

every day. I reckon that it's the kefir that has really helped kick the

sugar cravings too. Finally!

I'll only be stopping in now and again from next week as I've been

coaxed into going back to work and will have trouble reading all

messages that don't have interesting subject lines. It was the money

(or the lack thereof). Was a tough decision with a baby though. I'll

be sobbing next week when I leave him!

[Guest guest]

Steph-

>I can't do

>cream because of a casein allergy, which I'm hoping (dreaming?) can be

>fixed at some point.

Coconut cream?

-

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>Would you mind 'splaining why you don't agree with the SCD biology; for

>a physical science type person, if you please.

Glutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutengl\

utenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglutenglut\

englutengluten.

I don't think that's an unfair characterization. <g>

I highly recommend the most recent edition of _Breaking the Vicious Cycle_

for anyone with gut problems. That said, it needs to be used in

conjunction with NT, Atkins and other sources to arrive at a truly healthy

diet, because it has very little to say on nutrient density, macronutrient

ratios and so on.

-

[Guest guest]

& Heidi,

>Heidi-

>

>

>

>>1. SCD states: longer chain polysaccharides aren't good for you,

>>because they aren't digested as well and feed " bad bacteria " .

>>

>>My reading: *ANY* food that doesn't get digested well will

>>overfeed bacteria, but the foods that don't get digested well

>>are not necessarily polysaccharides. Fructose is a major culprit too,

>>for some people.

>>

>>

>

>Have you ever actually read the book or talked with Elaine? Since as you

>say we've hashed this out endlessly, I'm quite mystified by your continued

>misrepresentation of the SCD. It is clearly explained that when one is

>suffering from dysbiosis, overgrowth and digestive impairment, ANY carbs

>which can feed undesirable gut biota are problematic INCLUDING

>fructose. This is why it is explained that many carb foods which are

>SCD-legal aren't good in the early phases of the diet.

>

Oopsie, seems my little question has resurrected a Listgod vs.

Glutenator debate. Now I'm sorry I asked. I haven't read the book yet,

but I have contemplated getting it. _Warrior Diet_ and _Mastering

Leptin_ took priority this order time around. I am curious about the

gut bacteria and feeding idea, though. How is a strict low carb diet on

the good guys in my gut? I eat much fermented fare, but do they die off

without adequate carb intake?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>I haven't read the book yet,

>but I have contemplated getting it. _Warrior Diet_ and _Mastering

>Leptin_ took priority this order time around.

Inasmuch as _The Warrior Diet_ evidently doesn't lay out any science

(that's supposed to be the job of _Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat_, though as

I noted awhile ago there are many deficiencies and contradictions in that

book) I'm not sure how much it's actually worth reading, though to be fair,

I haven't read it myself.

If you have any kind of digestive issues at all, though, I cannot recommend

_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ highly enough.

>I am curious about the

>gut bacteria and feeding idea, though. How is a strict low carb diet on

>the good guys in my gut? I eat much fermented fare, but do they die off

>without adequate carb intake?

They'll do fine. First, it's unlikely you're going to eat a zero-carb

diet, and second, look at those of Price's healthy tribes which ate very

low-carb, like the Inuit -- they had excellent digestion.

-

[Guest guest]

Idol wrote:

>Steph-

>

>

>

>>I can't do

>>cream because of a casein allergy, which I'm hoping (dreaming?) can be

>>fixed at some point.

>>

>>

>

>Coconut cream?

>

>

>

>

>-

>

>

>

Ah, you are veddy wise indeed. :-) Thanks! Now I'm smacking my head

the way you did last night.

Ever made the SCD yogurt with homemade coconut milk? I'll be attempting

that this weekend.

Steph

[Guest guest]

,

>nasmuch as _The Warrior Diet_ evidently doesn't lay out any science

>(that's supposed to be the job of _Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat_, though as

>I noted awhile ago there are many deficiencies and contradictions in that

>book) I'm not sure how much it's actually worth reading, though to be fair,

>I haven't read it myself.

>

I am doing a low carb warrior lifestyle, starting this week. I have

always done well eating this way in general, so I got it basically for

more guidelines than the website offers. It is kind of fluffy, isn't

it? Still, it's entertaining to read about falconry and such - my boys

eat that stuff up. <g>

When the leptin book arrives, I'll probably do some further diet

tweaking. But I feel well and have dropped a couple pounds of fluff anyway.

>

>If you have any kind of digestive issues at all, though, I cannot recommend

>_Breaking the Vicious Cycle_ highly enough.

>

I don't, but my autistic son does. He is GFCF and has been for years.

Gottschall has a bunch of information on her site (including the autism

chapter ... or maybe that was pecanbread.com?), but I will get the book

next time. Basically, we eat this way anyway, although my guys do eat

grains once in a while. I haven't bought anymore lately, so it's become

less and less of an indulgence for them.

>They'll do fine. First, it's unlikely you're going to eat a zero-carb

>diet, and second, look at those of Price's healthy tribes which ate very

>low-carb, like the Inuit -- they had excellent digestion.

>

That's true. And these natives didn't have microbiology backgrounds,

yet they did okay. With my Arctic European background, I find I do

better eating mainly meat and veg as well. And since losing the

starches, I don't have fullness, bloating, flatulence, weight gain, and

other fun things like that. I can do a bit of fruit and beans on

occasion without issue as well, which *seems* to be in line with BTVC.

Biochemistry is just not my forte. I learn enough to get by on a

personal level, but I much prefer the physical sciences.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Idol

>If there's any real and genuinely relevant science (IOW NOT something

>misguided like the ass challenge) that demonstrates that gliadin is not

>broken down by healthy digestive systems, i.e. by abundant HCl and pepsin,

>then we might have something to talk about

,

I don't know much about the breakdown of the 33 amino acid chain (or

whatever length gliadin is) but there is research that shows a very specific

digestive enzyme is required for the breakdown of gluteomorphin and

caseomorphin. The problematic peptide has proline in the center and for some

reason this peptide chain resists digestion. And this chain can be as short

as *3* amino acids in length and those with inadequate DPP IV (the enzyme

that breaks it down) won't be able to break it down. Then it gets into the

brain and attaches to some receptor sites there and wreaks havoc, which is

typical with autism and those who tend to have neurological reactions to

gluten and casein. So HCL and pepsin aren't the issue with these opiods,

rather DPP IV is. DPP IV has several other functions though including

something to do with hormones (sorry i don't recall the details) so maybe

it's being called to other duties in those who are sucseptible to gluten and

casein opiod peptides.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Steph-

>Ever made the SCD yogurt with homemade coconut milk? I'll be attempting

>that this weekend.

I've never even made coconut milk myself, and though it's tempting, I can't

see myself going to all that trouble on a regular basis. I don't do that

well with all that fiber anyway.

-

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>Biochemistry is just not my forte. I learn enough to get by on a

>personal level, but I much prefer the physical sciences.

Sometimes the travesty of science that is biochemistry and dietary

recommendations and whatnot make me thing that human intelligence is just

not nearly adequate. Other times I just think it's the massively

corrupting influence of money.

-

[Guest guest]

My two cents--

I've read and own _BTVC_ and I had a high opinion of it until Suze

pointed out that her analysis of amylose versus amylopectin was

completely backwards. I don't remember which is which, but one of

them is fibrous shaped and one is globular, and Gotschall goes on

significantly about how the fibrous one is easier to digest because

the enzymes can get at all the different spots on it easier and

quicker. But when we discussed it on the list, it seemed that all of

the research that was posted quite conclusively found the opposite to

be the case, because the fibrous version aggregates very well and the

globular version doesn't aggreagate much.

That's not really germane to the diet itself, but it really made

Gottschall look like a sloppy researcher.

As to long-chain polysacharides, I think it is quite clear to me that

I digest anything simpler better. For example, sweet potatoes are

much better on my digestion than regular potatoes. I suspect there

is a give-and-take between needing to do so much digestion, on the one

hand, and having a supply of sugar that is easier for bacteria to

break down but having too much to readily absorb it in your gut.

So, someone with a lot of damage who just doesn't have the villi

available or they are covered in guck might be particularly harmed by

disacharides and polysacharides, but the balance might be different

for someone who has a well-functioning gut, in which case it might be

worse to have the simple sugars that are very readily available to the

bacteria.

However, I think Heidi's understanding of Gottschal's view is somewhat

inaccurate. Gottschal does not, to my knowledge, believe that a

polysacharride is better insofar as it is shorter in chain length.

Gottschal considers disacharides just as illegal as starches. So the

research Heidi's probably referring to comparing starches to sucrose,

or whole grains to refined flour, are completely irrelevant from the

issue. It would only be relevant to compare starches with berries and

honey and other fruits and vegetables.

Also, I would consider the fact that sodium is necessary for sugar to

be absorbed across the intestinal lining. Refined sugar or white

flour probably does not contain any sodium, whereas whole grains would

contain some.

Gottschall doesn't discount that gluten is harmful, and she does say

it is very difficult to digest, and, IIRC, she says it makes the

starches it accompanies harder to digest too. However, she seems to

think it is conclusive that someone with celiac can be " cured " based

on symptoms, depsite the fact that it is an open question and the

moment and the evidence, to my knowledge, quite clearly indicates that

when people think they are " cured " based on lack of symptoms they in

fact are NOT.

My personal opinion is that if anyone is going to attempt to eat

gluten knowing they have the gluten-sensitivity genes, they should

test somewhat regularly, maybe every six months a couple times, and

every five years after that, to determine that they are not in fact

doing damage to their gut while remainin asymptomatic.

And, of course, there is the issue of fermentation. It might be that

gluten can't be broken down properly, but wasn't an issue

traditionally because fermentation could... and if anyone were to

carry out the above experiment they should probably only do it with

fermented grains, and probably not wheat, at that.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> _Warrior Diet_ and _Mastering

> Leptin_ took priority this order time around.

I was just looking at the pictures of Ori Hofmekler in the new Dragon Door

Vitalics catalog and was struck by how scrawny he is. And yet half of his

books are a molecular level discussion about building maximum muscle. It

just doesn't compute. If you want to go look at the people who are building

maximum muscle you will find that almost to a man (or woman) they eat

continuously throughout the day.

So, that being said, I still like the Warrior Diet a lot and find that it

will at least preserve muscle mass if you eat sufficiently during your feast

meal. I'm actually building some muscle at the moment but I suspect that is

because I'm below my muscular set-point after two years of surgeries and

various recoveries and the associated exercise downtime. I don't expect to

turn into Arnold eating the Warrior Diet way, but that's just fine with me.

Health, comfort and convenience are the current watchwords.

Ron

[Guest guest]

,

> >Biochemistry is just not my forte. I learn enough to get by on a

> >personal level, but I much prefer the physical sciences.

>

> Sometimes the travesty of science that is biochemistry and dietary

> recommendations and whatnot make me thing that human

> intelligence is just

> not nearly adequate. Other times I just think it's the massively

> corrupting influence of money.

>

A lot of it is religious I suspect. Unwavering faith in whatever ideas you

were raised with or discovered on your own however incorrect they might be.

I had a session with a psychic healer yesterday in which she told me that I

MUST EAT GRAINS. They are necessary for the body's health. When I gently

asked her what nutrients they contain that I can't get from other sources

she fumbled around and could only come up with something about the B

vitamins. I let it rest although I made it clear that I very much disagreed

with her and considered most grains to be unhealthy for most people. But

here we have a woman who is highly educated and very literate and yet is not

only incorrect about diet but vigorously asserted her incorrectness.

I think that's the way that most humans are wired when dealing with a

subject that is essentially unknowable -- there is so much information out

there about nutrition that it is virtually impossible for people to decipher

it. The people here on this list are .000001 percenters. We are the

aberration. Nobody spends the kind of time that we do seeking out the

correct diet and then implementing it.

So the people who do nutritional biochemistry do the same thing that

everyone else does -- they spend a lot of time trying to prove the viewpoint

that they started out with. The people with a financial stake in all of it

use that tendency to ensure that they pick the right people to get the

results that they want. So it's a gestalt of both of the reasons that you

give above, I suspect.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>I had a session with a psychic healer yesterday in which she told me that I

>MUST EAT GRAINS. They are necessary for the body's health. When I gently

>asked her what nutrients they contain that I can't get from other sources

>she fumbled around and could only come up with something about the B

>vitamins. I let it rest although I made it clear that I very much disagreed

>with her and considered most grains to be unhealthy for most people. But

>here we have a woman who is highly educated and very literate and yet is not

>only incorrect about diet but vigorously asserted her incorrectness.

If she's actually highly educated, I can't help but suspect that she's a

fraud. I mean, seriously, a psychic healer? I guess you'll respond that

I'm partaking of the usual FUD, but the world is full of fraudulent

psychics of all stripes, healers included, and zero people proven effective

or even possibly effective.

>I think that's the way that most humans are wired when dealing with a

>subject that is essentially unknowable -- there is so much information out

>there about nutrition that it is virtually impossible for people to decipher

>it. The people here on this list are .000001 percenters. We are the

>aberration. Nobody spends the kind of time that we do seeking out the

>correct diet and then implementing it.

Most people don't, but while we obviously believe we're the most correct, I

think you're underestimating the number of people who do regard diet as

important for one reason or another. Gym rats and body builder types, for

example, are often quite obsessed with what they eat and supplement

with. Vegetarians are generally convinced of the health virtues of their

diets. And I could go on. Yes, all these people are members of minority,

even fringe, groups, but they do add up... to something, at least. And I

also think that the modern disregard for diet is something of an

aberration. Traditionally, people did pay close attention to food.

>So the people who do nutritional biochemistry do the same thing that

>everyone else does -- they spend a lot of time trying to prove the viewpoint

>that they started out with.

Well, that's just human nature, unfortunately. That and corruption.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> If she's actually highly educated, I can't help but suspect

> that she's a

> fraud. I mean, seriously, a psychic healer?

I just couldn't resist when I put that in my post. And yes, I am seeing a

psychic healer. And yes, I suspect that she's doing something.

More when I get back -- out of town for two days.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys,

>>Sometimes the travesty of science that is biochemistry and dietary

>>recommendations and whatnot make me thing that human

>>intelligence is just

>>not nearly adequate. Other times I just think it's the massively

>>corrupting influence of money.

>>

>

>A lot of it is religious I suspect. Unwavering faith in whatever ideas you

>were raised with or discovered on your own however incorrect they might be.

>

Right. These corruptions don't generally occur as much in engineering

(but star wars defense comes to mind as one bad idea that perpetuates

despite the science showing it won't work correctly). You generally

want the design to work as intended. Whereas in food and " health care " ,

it's often to the benefit of the powers that be that illness prevails.

That and the complexities are greater with biological entities. Physics

and general chemistry are just easier to grasp and are more straight

forward.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

>A lot of this discussion (and the discussion that follows) is what I call the

> " attack your opponent " kind of discussion, which is why I don't talk about

>SCD much (esp. on this list). It's like arguing Creationism or Vegetarianism or

>Libertarianism or when life begins ... the arguments on both sides are largely

>based on the person's world view. My world view is VERY different from

Elaine's,

>and probably from yours, and I know that because I've read a lot of her work

>(and from her adherents). I don't think I could get through her entire book:

>

I appreciate all you have written on this subject, but I will let you

and duke it out without me. <g> If this is true about rigidity of

thinking, then the program may well be flawed in some respects. But

yes, pragmatism is all that matters to me at the end of the day, for

*whatever* reason.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

>Physics

>and general chemistry are just easier to grasp and are more straight

>forward.

I suspect string theorists would disagree, but in general you're

right. Also, the physical sciences excluding biology are much more

amenable to experimental falsification of theories. Politics and money

have many more opportunities to interfere in extremely complex systems,

particularly when genuine endpoints aren't observable for years. But as

you say, this star wars crap the government is pulling demonstrates that no

discipline is safe.

-

[Guest guest]

Ron,

Is this the same one that told you no nuts? Looks like this healer has

some grain or opioid induced brain fogging going on messing up her

connection. You know, most healers haven't healed themself before

nailing up their plank or believe what they found for themself will

work for everyone else. Good for you, for questioning and for going

GF. Told you it would be a great improvement.

Wanita

> I had a session with a psychic healer yesterday in which she told me that I

> MUST EAT GRAINS. They are necessary for the body's health. When I gently

> asked her what nutrients they contain that I can't get from other sources

> she fumbled around and could only come up with something about the B

> vitamins.