Re: feast/fast diet

May 12, 2005

:

>Heidi,

>

>is that the Warrior Diet? i remember you talking about it a year ago.

>

>so, you still like it?

>

>it actually sounds kinda crazy to me, the little i know of it...

>

>whenever i've fasted in the past i always gained wt. afterwards.

>

>thanks,

>

>laura

Yeah, I still like it. It's easier, and I feel a LOT better when I do it.

Your body does get more efficient at using food when you

eat like this, which means you eat less. I'm also less hungry

though, so it's not like I'm starving myself. Less food means

less digestion, which is good if your digestion is iffy to

begin with. My metabolism, however, is *higher* ... I go

out on cold days with no jacket just fine. So it's not like

going on a food-restriction diet, where your metabolism

crashes. When I go off the diet, like I did in Vegas, I don't

gain weight, the weight stays off.

But the reason I do it is for my blood sugar. I used to eat

6x a day and was always hungry, and would get really

grouchy if I went any length of time without eating. That

got to be a royal pain: packing food etc. And doing NT

food that many times a day is just too much.

Plus, our ancestors did NOT cook all day. They likely

ate fruit etc. when they saw it, but making a fire

and roasting something was a ton of work, something

for a feast at the end of the day. And many days they

likely had no food at all. Our bodies are made to eat

a lot, then live off fat between meals. Our modern

way is to stuff our face all day long, digest food

all day long, then wonder why digestion isn't working

so well.

Like most things, I'm not saying it's for everyone.

But it's great for me!

Heidi Jean

May 12, 2005

>>> Our modern way is to stuff our face all day long, digest food

all day long, then wonder why digestion isn't working so well.

Heidi >>>>.

Since it may have gotten buried in my epic post, I need to point out that

the regular eating plan I was just talking about includes meals that are

never closer than four hours apart. More often they are five. (Six hours is

getting just too long I think.) Also I think I mentioned that there is no

snacking in between. So I agree with you there.

Seems like different people metabolize things differently? I'd love to fit

the Warrior profile -- less cooking -- but it is just impossible for me.

It's nice to have a lot of choices.. ~Robin

May 12, 2005

>Since it may have gotten buried in my epic post, I need to point out that

>the regular eating plan I was just talking about includes meals that are

>never closer than four hours apart. More often they are five. (Six hours is

>getting just too long I think.) Also I think I mentioned that there is no

>snacking in between. So I agree with you there.

>

>Seems like different people metabolize things differently? I'd love to fit

>the Warrior profile -- less cooking -- but it is just impossible for me.

>It's nice to have a lot of choices.. ~Robin

The thing that stands out in your post is that you are THINKING

about it, which is the main thing! 3 meals a day works for many

cultures. The average American eats far more than that. Your average

French person eats 3 or maybe 2, and they are skinnier (they think

snacking is gauche'). It is true if you eat only one meal a day you

gorge. The mice on the feast/fast diet gorge too. Some lose weight,

some don't, but they all live longer.

Anyway, I don't eat NOTHING all day. I eat fruit, vegies, and nuts, and some

meat.

I just don't eat anything cooked. And I try to minimize calories,

just for the heck of it. So it's kinda like Atkins/raw foodist during the

day, and " normal NT " at night.

The thing about extending your " without food " period is that it trains

your body to USE stored fat and glycogen for energy. That's what they

are there for ... so tell me, why, if I have over 30 lbs of stored fat,

does my body go into conniption fits if I skip a meal? There is LOTS OF FOOD

for my body, but my body refuses to eat it. Ori learned this in the Navy Seals,

where they train them to store more glycogen and go extended periods without

food. There is no reason on earth that a " normal " person can't go 2-3 days

without eating, as our ancestors did, far less go without 20 hours. The only

reason we eat constantly is that we are used to eating constantly.

That said, if you stick to ANY schedule you are better off than no schedule,

your body can adapt. And if you aren't overweight and feel ok, you are

succeeding.

Heidi Jean

May 12, 2005

>>>> The thing about extending your " without food " period is that it trains

your body to USE stored fat and glycogen for energy. That's what they

are there for . Heidi >>>>

I agree and mind-set is another very important piece of this whole thing.

For example, when I was in my early twenties I tried a few spiritual type

Fasts where I drank only raw juices for five days and then water (and 1 tbsp

olive oil/day) for five days and then back to juices for 5 days. I didn't

need food at all and wasn't hungry. I felt strong and oh so very

clear-headed. It was a powerful exercise -- " I can survive without food " .

It's important to really *know* deep down that you're not going to die from

lack of food which I think is part of an underlying fear in our relatively

new, insecure culture. A diet is a good opportunity to practice mind over

matter.

The thing I'm most surprised at these days is how very *little* food I

really need to keep at my same weight -- I figure I'm eating only about 1350

calories/day to stay even at 118. I'm 5'6 " . I walk at least an hour each

evening (to go to the market with my poodle:-) and because I've worked

physically all my life, stage manager, I've got a lot of muscle.

That's just .. plain... not many calories.. sheesh! ~Robin

May 13, 2005

wrote: is that the Warrior Diet? i remember you talking about it a year

ago.

so, you still like it? it actually sounds kinda crazy to me, the little i know

of it...

whenever i've fasted in the past i always gained wt. afterwards.

--> it sorted out my health that's for sure. I gained weight (which I needed to)

and Jo, also a member of this group who was eating very similarly to me, lost

weight (which she needed to - or so she thought anyway!).

Filippa

May 13, 2005

> it actually sounds kinda crazy to me, the little i know of it...

>

> whenever i've fasted in the past i always gained wt. afterwards.

The Warrior Diet is very different from fasting. It's having relative

under-eating and relative over-eating phases to the day.

I agree with Heidi: I love it. I haven't done it for long enough to

lose lots of weight, but my cravings are going, I'm eating less, and

my energy and sleep are great. (Usually if I under-eat, I don't sleep

well.) I didn't feel nearly this good on Atkins. (I had cravings,

didn't sleep well, and my energy level was erradict.)

Who championed eating lots of small meals through out the day? Body

builders

What was their goal? to GAIN weight

What other type of person eats lots of small meals? babies and

toddlers

What is their goal? to GAIN weight

If I continue to lose weight and feel great, I'll post more in a few

months!

All the best,

Jan

May 13, 2005

Hiedi,

i went to amazon and am taking the liberty of posting the review from

Library Journal:

" For the Greco-Roman soldier wannabe, this modified fasting program

from a former member of the Israeli Special Forces is similar to

weight builders' " animalbolics " diet. Forget calorie counting.

Instead, Hofmekler suggests that we return to our bodies' instinctive

eating style, " undereating " during the day and " overeating " at night.

He recommends eating a daily main meal in the evening, with no

caloric restrictions (light snacking on fresh fruits and vegetables

is okay during the day, as is eating small amounts of lean protein).

According to the author, this burns fat, builds muscles, accelerates

metabolism, and slows aging. Short, intense strength and aerobic

exercises (illustrated) are also part of the " warrior training, "

along with pre-and post-workout meals. Alluring though the " warrior "

image may be, it seems unrealistic to expect most men especially the

40-plus who would most benefit to stick with this plan for a

lifetime. "

Funny thing is, i used to eat like this but was told by many books,

that's why i was 'fat' and if i would only eat breafast i would lose

wt, and all the skinny people eat breakfast...etc. etc.

my wt. was more or less under control when i was eating that

way...then i started Fit for Life and after that i've been gaining

wt. ever since.

i'm going to get the book and give it a try. what the heck.

thanks, heidi.

laura

>

> Yeah, I still like it. It's easier, and I feel a LOT better when I

do it.

>

> Your body does get more efficient at using food when you

> eat like this, which means you eat less. I'm also less hungry

> though, so it's not like I'm starving myself. Less food means

> less digestion, which is good if your digestion is iffy to

> begin with. My metabolism, however, is *higher* ... I go

> out on cold days with no jacket just fine. So it's not like

> going on a food-restriction diet, where your metabolism

> crashes. When I go off the diet, like I did in Vegas, I don't

> gain weight, the weight stays off.

>

> But the reason I do it is for my blood sugar. I used to eat

> 6x a day and was always hungry, and would get really

> grouchy if I went any length of time without eating. That

> got to be a royal pain: packing food etc. And doing NT

> food that many times a day is just too much.

>

> Plus, our ancestors did NOT cook all day. They likely

> ate fruit etc. when they saw it, but making a fire

> and roasting something was a ton of work, something

> for a feast at the end of the day. And many days they

> likely had no food at all. Our bodies are made to eat

> a lot, then live off fat between meals. Our modern

> way is to stuff our face all day long, digest food

> all day long, then wonder why digestion isn't working

> so well.

>

> Like most things, I'm not saying it's for everyone.

> But it's great for me!

>

> Heidi Jean

May 13, 2005

Robin, that is exactly how i was told to eat at

www.radiantrecovery.com (where i, blessedly, got off sugar):

breakfast within an hour of getting up.

3 meals, about 5 hours apart.

a starch before bed.

and no snacking.

it takes awhile to get used to eating this way. any, protein must be

consumed at every meal.

like i said, i lost a little wt. and felt great but for me this way

of eating is way too much work and i couln't sustain it. i hate to

cook, with a passion, and like i said, would rather drink raw milk

all day, when i'm hungry.

laura

Since it may have gotten buried in my epic post, I need to point out

that

> the regular eating plan I was just talking about includes meals

that are

> never closer than four hours apart. More often they are five. (Six

hours is

> getting just too long I think.) Also I think I mentioned that there

is no

> snacking in between. So I agree with you there.

>

> Seems like different people metabolize things differently? I'd love

to fit

> the Warrior profile -- less cooking -- but it is just impossible

for me.

> It's nice to have a lot of choices.. ~Robin

May 13, 2005

Heidi, you were a navy seal?? i didn't know they took women (don't

mean to sound sexist). that's amazing...

whenever i used to fast i would feel FANTASTIC but then when i would

resume eating, i couldn't stop and i would gain wt. and couldn't go

back to fasting.

it was VERY FRUSTRATING. after every fast i would end up weighing

more than i did before. but that feeling of not eating and not

wanting to eat was wonderful. but it couldn't be sustained and then

i'd be binging uncontrollably and be feeling horrible.

i wonder if the warrior diet is good for some people and not others.

maybe you said that already.

listen, this sums up my situation. for reasons i can't seem to

understand, try as i may, MY BODY WANTS TO BE FAT AND I FEEL LIKE I

AM CONSTANTLY AT ODDS WITH IT AND ARGUING WITH IT AND I FEEL LIKE

THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. it's as if my body is pre-

programmed, it gets its way no matter what i want or what i do. this

is my heart, my gut, my instinctual nature talking...not my head. my

head tells me this is nonsense and if i REALLY want to lose wt. all i

have to do is set my mind to it and do SOMETHING.

but my body has other ideas and ALWAYS wins out. AND THIS IS FROM

SOMEONE WHO IS OFF SUGAR, WHITE FLOUR AND ALCOHOL AND ALL JUNK. i

have been trying to tell this to my mom and sis (that my body wants

to be fat, no matter what i do) (no wt. prob.'s for either) and they

look at me like i'm nuts. i know they're both concerned about my

wt. but they both feel helpless as do i.

so if i don't try to lose wt, i gain wt. if i try to lose wt, i gain

wt. it doesn't matter what i do. i know to a lot of you this must

sound like nonsense. and it's a mystery to me.

i exercise. yesterday i biked for an hour, i do that every other

day. i'm working up to my usual 2 hour biking route. the off days i

usually rollerblade tho i've been painting the house lately instead.

i love to hike, and i walk and cross country ski in the winter. i

want to hike the appalachian trail one day and maybe bike cross

country or start cross-state.

it's hard to imagine a 50 year old woman like that, being 5'5 " and

weighing 225 lbs. and a size 20 or 22 or something.

i'm currently working on fat acceptance (like the serenity prayer,

accept what you can't change) and figure if i can just exercise as

much as i want, then maybe being fat won't be such a physically

uncomfortable experience when in the summer i just want to slice off

my breasts (F cup) and thighs (HUGE tree trunks) because there's so

much damned chafing and i'm so damned uncomfortable. but in the

winter i'm fine.

THANK GOD my husband is accepting of me and loves me and still

desires me; he seemingly is my only saving grace. (both he and son.)

he HATES it when i call myself fat (and i use the word not

derogatorily but as a FACT. i'm a woman. i'm 50. i'm fat. i have

a pretty face. sort of.) and people seem to like me and my

personality and accept me for who i am...only my mom and sis seem to

be bothered by my wt.

although when i ride my bike i get a LOT of stares and people rarely

say hello to me, especially fellow bikers, the ones with the snazzy

bikes, helmets and clothes. my mom thinks they stare at me because

of my wt. and i always wear black to try to play it down; looks like

i'm in perpetual mourning. i should move to NYC. it's de rigeur

there.

laura

> Anyway, I don't eat NOTHING all day. I eat fruit, vegies, and nuts,

and some meat.

> I just don't eat anything cooked. And I try to minimize calories,

> just for the heck of it. So it's kinda like Atkins/raw foodist

during the

> day, and " normal NT " at night.

>

> The thing about extending your " without food " period is that it

trains

> your body to USE stored fat and glycogen for energy. That's what

they

> are there for ... so tell me, why, if I have over 30 lbs of stored

fat,

> does my body go into conniption fits if I skip a meal? There is

LOTS OF FOOD

> for my body, but my body refuses to eat it. Ori learned this in the

Navy Seals,

> where they train them to store more glycogen and go extended

periods without

> food. There is no reason on earth that a " normal " person can't go 2-

3 days

> without eating, as our ancestors did, far less go without 20 hours.

The only

> reason we eat constantly is that we are used to eating constantly.

>

> That said, if you stick to ANY schedule you are better off than no

schedule,

> your body can adapt. And if you aren't overweight and feel ok, you

are succeeding.

>

> Heidi Jean

May 13, 2005

> :

>

>Funny thing is, i used to eat like this but was told by many books,

>that's why i was 'fat' and if i would only eat breafast i would lose

>wt, and all the skinny people eat breakfast...etc. etc.

>

>my wt. was more or less under control when i was eating that

>way...then i started Fit for Life and after that i've been gaining

>wt. ever since.

Heh heh. Me too. I used to live off tacos at night, nothing much during

the day (no money and I was at college). The Health Magazine writup

on the feast/fast plan (not Ori's book: separate research) calls it

the " how I used to eat before I got fat " diet.

I think the bit about breakfast mainly applies to folks who

eat snacks and lunch. It is true that if you eat no breakfast ...

or a very starchy one ... you will eat a bigger lunch, or grab

a Pepsi or two and some donuts.

A big part of Ori's plan though (and the Navy Seals etc) is exercise:

your body burns fat better if you get some. I do weights and

gardening when I can.

Heidi

May 13, 2005

:

>Heidi, you were a navy seal?? i didn't know they took women (don't

>mean to sound sexist). that's amazing...

Oh goodness no! Ori was, I think (who wrote the WD book). He

is very macho.

>it was VERY FRUSTRATING. after every fast i would end up weighing

>more than i did before. but that feeling of not eating and not

>wanting to eat was wonderful. but it couldn't be sustained and then

>i'd be binging uncontrollably and be feeling horrible.

>

>i wonder if the warrior diet is good for some people and not others.

>maybe you said that already.

Well, for one thing, when you really fast it is for longer than 20 hours.

You body has to do a lot of rearranging to go longer than a day

without food. But for one day, you have plenty of glycogen and

fat to " eat " ... plus you probably have food still digesting from

the day before.

Second, when you eat on the WD it is only for 4 hours, and there

is only so much binging you can do in 4 hours. And it is on

basically good food, in a certain order. You eat a salad first,

then your protein, then your vegies, then your starches. After

all that, if you are still hungry (I'm not, at that point!) you can

have dessert, in my version of the plan (Ori doesn't like

the concept of sugar at all).

This kind of eating doesn't cause the same kind of blood sugar

spikes that say, eating a donut does during the day. It's a lot

of digesting so it goes slowly, and there isn't all that much

starch/sugar involved.

>listen, this sums up my situation. for reasons i can't seem to

>understand, try as i may, MY BODY WANTS TO BE FAT AND I FEEL LIKE I

>AM CONSTANTLY AT ODDS WITH IT AND ARGUING WITH IT AND I FEEL LIKE

>THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT. it's as if my body is pre-

>programmed, it gets its way no matter what i want or what i do. this

>is my heart, my gut, my instinctual nature talking...not my head. my

>head tells me this is nonsense and if i REALLY want to lose wt. all i

>have to do is set my mind to it and do SOMETHING.

Some of that is cortisol, and the fact your body really has

forgotten how to burn fat for fuel. Your body can burn fat

or glycogen/glucose. If food is currently digesting and you

are fairly sedentary, it tends to go into glucose mode, esp.

if you are insulin resistant anyway (vicious cycle). But the

body is SUPPOSED to usually use fat plus a little glycogen ...

that's the " normal " mode for energy.

Anyway, my body did the same thing. I'd lose weight,

but it would pop right back. I gave up and decided not

to do ANYTHING til I figured it out I am not as skinny as

I was, but I'm not suffering and I'm not gaining and I do

lose weight. I lost a lot of inches before I lost any lbs

though, so it's hard to judge. I'm a lot stronger than I

was too.

>but my body has other ideas and ALWAYS wins out. AND THIS IS FROM

>SOMEONE WHO IS OFF SUGAR, WHITE FLOUR AND ALCOHOL AND ALL JUNK. i

>have been trying to tell this to my mom and sis (that my body wants

>to be fat, no matter what i do) (no wt. prob.'s for either) and they

>look at me like i'm nuts. i know they're both concerned about my

>wt. but they both feel helpless as do i.

Are you also off ALL gluten and casein? Those two are killers

in the weight dept. for a lot of people. Gluten in particular

mucks up the upper intestine and so the appestat

doesn't work. Gluten is in whole wheat, rye, barley, plus

innocous stuff like soy sauce. Malt seems to be one of

the worst: people will just binge on malt syrup, though it

doesn't have a *lot* of gluten in it.

Anyway, I mention this because a lot of folks who

" feel great " when they fast have food intolerances,

which cause food cravings and binging big time. Gluten and casein

form opioids in the brain and it IS a drug addiction, for some number

of people.

Sugar and alcohol don't seem to cause me a lot of problems,

if they are not coupled with the other two, tho this is

obviously not true for a lot of folks. But if I get a bit of gluten,

or eat a bit of cheese, the next day I am STARVING all day (also

very thirsty) and there's not much I can do about it except live

through it and drink broth. Food allergies cause hunger ... partly

because of the opioids and partly because of the cortisol.

>so if i don't try to lose wt, i gain wt. if i try to lose wt, i gain

>wt. it doesn't matter what i do. i know to a lot of you this must

>sound like nonsense. and it's a mystery to me.

It's not nonsense, a lot of us have been through it! I'm only

now getting to where I feel like buying clothes again, like

it's under control.

>i exercise. yesterday i biked for an hour, i do that every other

>day. i'm working up to my usual 2 hour biking route. the off days i

>usually rollerblade tho i've been painting the house lately instead.

>i love to hike, and i walk and cross country ski in the winter. i

>want to hike the appalachian trail one day and maybe bike cross

>country or start cross-state.

Great for you! If you CAN do stuff, your body will be in better

shape than if you were " ideal " weight and sedentary. Actually

very skinny people have the worst life expectancy.

>THANK GOD my husband is accepting of me and loves me and still

>desires me; he seemingly is my only saving grace. (both he and son.)

>he HATES it when i call myself fat (and i use the word not

>derogatorily but as a FACT. i'm a woman. i'm 50. i'm fat. i have

>a pretty face. sort of.) and people seem to like me and my

>personality and accept me for who i am...only my mom and sis seem to

>be bothered by my wt.

I think it is important to be happy with who you are. In yoga, part

of the meditation is to just sit there and feel your body, to enjoy

it. That tends to give me the impetus to make it better too ... but I

wasn't able to do that until I started LISTENING to it. For me, that

at first meant finding a meal I could eat for breakfast and not be

hungry til lunch. Which led to me tweaking what I ate. And to figuring

out that some meals made me feel really odd after (I kept a diary).

And eventually to changing my entire diet (and my family's).

What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.

Our " modern diet " is obviously the culprit in all this, but no one is

sure exactly which parts of said diet are the worst. The Paleo diet

cuts out MOST of the modern evil stuff in one swoop, but I'm not

that extreme at this point. Anyway, it's an adventure. An experiment.

Like Miss Frizzle would say: Get messy! Make mistakes!

>

Heidi

May 13, 2005

> It's important to really *know* deep down that you're not going to die from

> lack of food which I think is part of an underlying fear in our relatively

> new, insecure culture.

This is one of my biggest problems. I am always terrified i'm going to

starve to death. I get panicked sometimes. I think it is from a lifetime of

starvation diets.

Elaine

May 13, 2005

>The thing that stands out in your post is that you are THINKING

>about it, which is the main thing! 3 meals a day works for many

>cultures. The average American eats far more than that. Your average

>French person eats 3 or maybe 2, and they are skinnier (they think

>snacking is gauche'). It is true if you eat only one meal a day you

>gorge. The mice on the feast/fast diet gorge too. Some lose weight,

>some don't, but they all live longer.

>

>Anyway, I don't eat NOTHING all day. I eat fruit, vegies, and nuts, and some

meat.

>I just don't eat anything cooked. And I try to minimize calories,

>just for the heck of it. So it's kinda like Atkins/raw foodist during the

>day, and " normal NT " at night.

>

>The thing about extending your " without food " period is that it trains

>your body to USE stored fat and glycogen for energy. That's what they

>are there for ... so tell me, why, if I have over 30 lbs of stored fat,

>does my body go into conniption fits if I skip a meal? There is LOTS OF FOOD

>for my body, but my body refuses to eat it. Ori learned this in the Navy Seals,

>where they train them to store more glycogen and go extended periods without

>food. There is no reason on earth that a " normal " person can't go 2-3 days

>without eating, as our ancestors did, far less go without 20 hours. The only

>reason we eat constantly is that we are used to eating constantly.

>

>That said, if you stick to ANY schedule you are better off than no schedule,

>your body can adapt. And if you aren't overweight and feel ok, you are

succeeding.

>

>Heidi Jean

>

Interestingly, I have a story to share along these lines. But first,

speaking of fasting, NT recommends it in a few spots, but I have seen no

specifics there, NAPD or the WAPF website. It would be helpful to have

some nutritional aspects of WAP style fasting covered somewhere.

Perhaps I haven't searched hard enough.

I fasted on mainly water for 4 days starting on mother's day. I had

only one 12 ounce freshly made veggie juice and one grapefruit juice

during that time. Since then, I have eaten a low carb meal between 3-7

pm. The excess winter coat I had has dropped quickly, and I feel pretty

darn good about the whole thing. I will continue this plan for some

weeks. I do eat NOTHING until 3 pm, as like you say, the schedule is a

good thing. The fasting really jump started the whole process as well.

This probably isn't the best way of eating for many, and it definitely

defies Atkin's advice of eating no less than every 6 hours. But for me

it has been good. I exercise as usual. La vie en rose.

Deanna

May 13, 2005

Heidi, i just ordered the warrior diet on amazon (used).

Are you also off ALL gluten and casein?

no way. i've been telling my body to just GET USED TO ALL THE GLUTEN

AND CASSEINE ALREADY, OKAY???

so maybe this is the root source of this ongoing argument my body and

i seem to be having...i say to it 'lose wt., dammit'

it says, 'no way, not til you give up gluten and casein!'

and i say, 'no way, dammit, just lose the damn wt.!!'

and on and on it goes.

the part of sally's talk that just got me was...about the Swiss,

living on raw milk, butter, raw cheese and sourdough rye bread. my

immediate reaction was, i have finally found my calling in life!! to

live on raw dairy and sourdough bread!!! i'm northern european...

mostly german...i bet that's how my ancestors ate! NOW IT ALL MAKES

SENSE!!

heidi i am really stubborn about this...(can you tell?) i just hate

to shop and cook, and love living on rawdairy and so-called 'healthy'

starch.

maybe i have to just accept the fact: i can choose to eat how i

want. (easy) then i am choosing to be fat. (hard)

or i can change how i eat (seemingly insurmountably hard) in order to

lose wt. (not easy i'm sure).

i'm a definite 'path of least resistance 'person. i just don't see

it happening.

it took me 3 years to go off sugar, alcohol and white flour. and

i've been off for about another 3 years. what a blessing.

but part of my mentality is, i've given up so much already...i don't

want to give up anything else!!! PLEASE!!!!

so what to do. i dunno. i'm going to go out on my bike now.

laura

Those two are killers

> in the weight dept. for a lot of people. Gluten in particular

> mucks up the upper intestine and so the appestat

> doesn't work.

I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS!!!

May 13, 2005

:

>Heidi, i just ordered the warrior diet on amazon (used).

>

>Are you also off ALL gluten and casein?

>

>no way. i've been telling my body to just GET USED TO ALL THE GLUTEN

>AND CASSEINE ALREADY, OKAY???

>

>so maybe this is the root source of this ongoing argument my body and

>i seem to be having...i say to it 'lose wt., dammit'

>

>it says, 'no way, not til you give up gluten and casein!'

>

>and i say, 'no way, dammit, just lose the damn wt.!!'

>

>and on and on it goes.

Heh heh. It's really hard to win an argument with your body!

And yeah, I don't eat ANY gluten. It's not even allowed in our

house. Trace amounts of it really set me off ... I spent a year

or two studying the issue (www.celiac.com is a good place

to start, and www.dogtorj.com). It's a complicated thing,

but very, very well researched for like 25 years. One gluten

" exposure " changes your hormone levels for about 2 weeks,

so a " little " causes mass problems. Interestingly, when

we dropped all the gluten my dh lost 20 lbs, my dd lost

her pot belly. I didn't lose any weight then, but I lost 2 dress

sizes. Then I dropped casein, and stopped having migraines.

But I didn't lose weight til I did the WD.

>the part of sally's talk that just got me was...about the Swiss,

>living on raw milk, butter, raw cheese and sourdough rye bread. my

>immediate reaction was, i have finally found my calling in life!! to

>live on raw dairy and sourdough bread!!! i'm northern european...

>mostly german...i bet that's how my ancestors ate! NOW IT ALL MAKES

>SENSE!!

>

>heidi i am really stubborn about this...(can you tell?) i just hate

>to shop and cook, and love living on rawdairy and so-called 'healthy'

>starch.

Well, I DO eat heathy starch .. potatoes, quinoa etc ... tho less than

I used to partly because they don't seem as necessary. As

for the dairy ... on the GFCFNN list we have a whole herd of

people who went through exactly the same thing. The dairy

was the key to the weight gain for a lot of them. I don't think

this is true for *everyone* ... a lot of people do Atkins and

eat a ton of cheese and lose weight ... but for some of us

the cheese, even raw organic and everything else ... just

doesn't work.

I'm German too. Interestingly, in my Grandfather's autobiography,

he says that " Cows are for rich people " ... they lived off goat

products and vegies they grew themselves, and oats, but bread

was rare (and prized ... in the book " Heidi " , Heidi steals the

rolls from the table ...). And most grains were oats/barley/rye, not

wheat. I suspect that if I grew up on goat milk and oats, I would

have been ok, but at this point my system won't handle

goat milk either.

BTW you will note that Clara (the rich city girl, getting wheat rolls)

suddenly got better when she lives out in the country (eating

goat cheese and rye bread, probably). Rye isn't problem-free,

but it's better than wheat by a long shot. Heidi got depressed

living in the city (and eating wheat rolls). I don't know what prompted

the story to be written, but it was " common knowledge " at the time

that rich folks got sick a lot with things the country folk just

didn't get.

>maybe i have to just accept the fact: i can choose to eat how i

>want. (easy) then i am choosing to be fat. (hard)

>

>or i can change how i eat (seemingly insurmountably hard) in order to

>lose wt. (not easy i'm sure).

>

>i'm a definite 'path of least resistance 'person. i just don't see

>it happening.

Or you can experiment and see what works for you. Experimenting

is fun! I started out by just replacing the wheat in my diet with

rice/potatoes, to disprove a theory someone had (that gluten

makes autism worse: I have Asperger's symptoms and wanted

them to be less). Losing wheat for one week, and drinking wine

instead of beer, should not have been a big deal ... but I felt

like I got kicked in the head by a horse, which convinced me it

DID have a druglike effect. Then I started feeling REALLY GOOD.

But you can start even simpler: just WRITE DOWN everything you

eat. Don't change anything. Write down what you eat and how

you feel after. See what comes to you ... " mindful eating " is

a great thing, and will lead you down wonderful paths.

>but part of my mentality is, i've given up so much already...i don't

>want to give up anything else!!! PLEASE!!!!

I don't " give up " ANYTHING. EVER. I might not be eating certain

things, but it's not because I gave them up. It's because I'm

a food snob. I CAN eat cheese and drink beer, and have on

occasion, but then I think (while living through the results)

WHY did I do that? How idiotic! I mean, I haven't given up

jumping off cliffs or eating mud either, they just aren't things

I do generally. If I say to myself " I'm going to give up eating mud "

though, then suddenly I'll want to start eating mud.

(OK, I probably use the words " give up " in emails, but it's

not how I feel. Mindset is everything ...)

>

Heidi Jean

May 13, 2005

>( )Heidi, you were a navy seal?? i didn't know they took women

(don't

> mean to sound sexist). that's amazing...

>

>(Heidi) Oh goodness no! Ori was, I think (who wrote the WD book). He

> is very macho.

(Kim) Oh dang! I really liked the idea of adding Navy Seal to the legend of

Heidi!

May 13, 2005

> I don't " give up " ANYTHING. EVER. I might not be eating certain

> things, but it's not because I gave them up. It's because I'm

> a food snob. I CAN eat cheese and drink beer, and have on

> occasion, but then I think (while living through the results)

> WHY did I do that? How idiotic! I mean, I haven't given up

> jumping off cliffs or eating mud either, they just aren't things

> I do generally. If I say to myself " I'm going to give up eating mud "

> though, then suddenly I'll want to start eating mud.

>

> (OK, I probably use the words " give up " in emails, but it's

> not how I feel. Mindset is everything ...)

>

> Heidi Jean

That really is a great attitude. And it makes sense: if something

makes you feel bad, why do it? I know it's easy to say and hard to

do. I thought I used to like things like soda/pop but after I " gave

it up " , then tried it again, it no longer tasted good. So I don't

really miss it. Besides, it made me feel rotten.

Incidentally, my mom craved mud (freshly tilled soil that is) when

she was pregnant... neat, huh??

Magda (who LOVES rye bread with butter and raw cheese)

May 13, 2005

the GFCFNN list

Heidi, what is that?

> Or you can experiment and see what works for you. Experimenting

> is fun! I started out by just replacing the wheat in my diet with

> rice/potatoes, to disprove a theory someone had (that gluten

> makes autism worse: I have Asperger's symptoms and wanted

> them to be less). Losing wheat for one week, and drinking wine

> instead of beer, should not have been a big deal ... but I felt

> like I got kicked in the head by a horse, which convinced me it

> DID have a druglike effect. Then I started feeling REALLY GOOD.

Heidi, that's a good idea...but it won't be easy. a piece of

good 'healthy' bread with raw butter or cheese is just too easy. i'm

going to complain here... because then i have to always be making

rice and potads, so there's some around. i just don't want to cook.

i know i sound pathetic.

> But you can start even simpler: just WRITE DOWN everything you

> eat. Don't change anything. Write down what you eat and how

> you feel after. See what comes to you ... " mindful eating " is

> a great thing, and will lead you down wonderful paths.

i hate to sound even more pathetic, but that web site that helped me

get off sugar? one of the steps was to journal your food and how it

made you felt. i just plain refused. hate to cook. hate to

journal. i've tried. i get about one meal journalled and then the

journal just sits there. or i misplace it. i know...i'm my own

worst enemy. been told this all my life. it got to where it was my

secret on that web site; you had to journal, i didn't, so i kept it

secret that i didn't. i didn't pretend to...just ignored the subject

whenever i was asked about it.

" well, then we can't help you, laura!! " i know.

but i'm thinking while i'm writing this that MAYBE if what you are

saying is true, the mental dullness, etc., combined with my chronic

depression, obesity, lack of energy and motivation...that the not

wanting to journal and cook are just part of the

symptoms...understand what i mean? in other words, maybe if i were

to do what you said, and get those foods out of my life (as

impossible as it sounds) maybe then i would have the energy and WANT

to cook and journal. make sense?

laura

May 13, 2005

>> hate to cook. hate to

journal. i've tried. <<

Well, in the immortal words of the otherwise execrable Dr. Phil <G> ....

how's that workin' for ya?

I don't mean to be flippant, and I know I'm sounding kind of unsympathetic.

I'm really not. I have often felt like you, and there have been times of my

life where it was pretty plain that I would rather stay where I was than

change certain things. If that's where you are, OK.

BUT... I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you asked Heidi

if maybe your " mental dullness " and other symptoms, if they were caused by

certain foods you can't tolerate such as gluten or casein, might go away if

you stopped consuming those foods, and then you might have a lot more energy

and desire and ability to do the things you " hate. "

My other suggestion is that it's one thing to " hate " something difficult and

horrible, and another to " hate " something that isn't really that big a deal.

It won't kill you to journal or to cook for a day or a week, even if you

don't like it. Why not just try, for a day or a handful of days? Why get so

worked up that it's going to be EVERY DAY FOREVER AND EVER, and just try it

for a short time and see how it goes?

Break this down into smaller, less scary pieces, and maybe it won't

overwhelm you so much.

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

Christie

Caber Feidh ish Deerhounds

Holistically Raising Our Dogs Since 1986

http://www.caberfeidh.com

http://doggedblog.com

Re: feast/fast diet

> the GFCFNN list

>

> Heidi, what is that?

>

> > Or you can experiment and see what works for you. Experimenting

> > is fun! I started out by just replacing the wheat in my diet with

> > rice/potatoes, to disprove a theory someone had (that gluten

> > makes autism worse: I have Asperger's symptoms and wanted

> > them to be less). Losing wheat for one week, and drinking wine

> > instead of beer, should not have been a big deal ... but I felt

> > like I got kicked in the head by a horse, which convinced me it

> > DID have a druglike effect. Then I started feeling REALLY GOOD.

>

> Heidi, that's a good idea...but it won't be easy. a piece of

> good 'healthy' bread with raw butter or cheese is just too easy. i'm

> going to complain here... because then i have to always be making

> rice and potads, so there's some around. i just don't want to cook.

> i know i sound pathetic.

>

> > But you can start even simpler: just WRITE DOWN everything you

> > eat. Don't change anything. Write down what you eat and how

> > you feel after. See what comes to you ... " mindful eating " is

> > a great thing, and will lead you down wonderful paths.

>

> i hate to sound even more pathetic, but that web site that helped me

> get off sugar? one of the steps was to journal your food and how it

> made you felt. i just plain refused. hate to cook. hate to

> journal. i've tried. i get about one meal journalled and then the

> journal just sits there. or i misplace it. i know...i'm my own

> worst enemy. been told this all my life. it got to where it was my

> secret on that web site; you had to journal, i didn't, so i kept it

> secret that i didn't. i didn't pretend to...just ignored the subject

> whenever i was asked about it.

>

> " well, then we can't help you, laura!! " i know.

>

> but i'm thinking while i'm writing this that MAYBE if what you are

> saying is true, the mental dullness, etc., combined with my chronic

> depression, obesity, lack of energy and motivation...that the not

> wanting to journal and cook are just part of the

> symptoms...understand what i mean? in other words, maybe if i were

> to do what you said, and get those foods out of my life (as

> impossible as it sounds) maybe then i would have the energy and WANT

> to cook and journal. make sense?

>

> laura

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May 13, 2005