OT: Very picky eater...at my wits end

[Guest guest]

Hey all.I mostly lurk here and I know this is not necessarily the scope of

this list but I don't know what else to do. My son is 6. Since he was around

2 his eating has become more and more and more picky. I breastfed him

exlusively for 9 months, till he showed interest in other foods. I made all

his baby foods and I introduced him to a wide variety of fruits, vegetables,

proteins and carbs. At that time he would eat pretty much anything I made. I

eat pretty well over all with a variety of fruits and veggies in my diet raw

and cooked. Also protein though I haven't worked up to doing any meats raw

yet. And we do eat carbs/grains on a limited basis. We ended up staying with

my sister and her family when he was about 2 years old. They eat really

poorly with the SAD diet of powdered donuts for breakfast, mac and cheese

(Kraft), nasty gross hot dogs and chips koolaid etc. I held out as best as I

could and even introduced them to some new ideas but I know when I wasn't

there they would let my son eat all the junkfood even after I had asked them

not to. And even after we left there I know there have been numerous

incidences of family members/friends who give him " treats " because they

" love " him even when I have asked they not do that as it undermines the

habits we are trying to being about. Since that time of staying with my

sister, I have done everything I can think of to try to bring his eating

habits back around. I don't keep " junk " in the house. I offer lots of

different foods, I instituted the one-bite/no-thank-you-helping rules, I

have tried to prepare fruits and vegetables every which way I can utilizing

recipes from the net, cookbooks, friends etc.. We eat around other children

whom he sees eating the stuff he won't touch. I have not up until now tried

to make a big deal out of what he is eating, instead trying to focus on the

stuff he will eat, rather than what he won't. But we are down now to the

only foods he will eat are tuna fish (made with mayo), salmon (made with

mayo like tuna), green apples IF I give peanut butter mixed with honey to

dip, pizza only cheese and there better not be chuncks on anything in the

sauce, goldfish crackers and once in a great while chicken or steak if there

are no vegetables cooked with it. Of course he will eat Pringles, donuts,

crackers, bread, and any other type of junk food, candy etc. He will once in

a while drink grape juice or apple juice and thankfully does not like soda.

I tried to offer him Kombucha but he won't drink anything fizzy. Tried kefir

smoothie but no go there either. He used to eat strawberry yogurt but not

anymore. I don't know what else to do. I have come to the point where I told

him he can not have anything to eat until he at least tries the fruits and

vegetables I bought at the store. I got pineapple, mango, papaya, coconut,

olives, bananas, kiwi, tangerine, oranges, pears, passionfruit, starfruit,

and I am sure I am forgetting some fruits. For veggies I got romaine, red

lettuce, green lettuce, kale, red Russian kale, onion, broccoli,

cauliflower, peas, carrots, turnip, rutabaga, corn, leeks, asparagus,

artichoke, potato, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, butternut squash, acorn

squash, spinach, beans and whatever else I am forgetting. I have made apple

pie, pumpkin pie, breads, muffins, cakes, smoothies, sorbets, plain roasted,

raw salads, dressing to dip them in (even bought Newman;s Own ranch since he

used to eat that on the few veggies he *used* to eat.) I don't know what

else to do. He is refusing to eat anything that is not bread right now. He

has not eaten all day. He looks terrible. I would think a illness or

something were this not the culmination of the way things have been going to

last *four* years. No fever or anything indicating illness though I am sure

he will come down with something soon if he continues to refuse to eat. I am

probably going to take him somewhere anyway to double check but this is

really ridiculous. For the last four years I have been told over and over he

will come around but he is not, it is only getting worse. Besides I live in

gulf coast MS area and am stuck with military approved doctors who are

useless in my experience (they couldn't even diagnose gallstones in me when

I was in the ER nine times with attacks over a six month period, then went

home to Maine and took the doctor there 5 minutes to recognize it)

Anyway, I think you probably get the idea. Anyone have any ideas at all? I

don't know what else to do. It seems I remember reading about someone

dealing with a picky eater that turned out to have allergies or something

like that but I can't recall and I have yet to figure out searching the

archives in an efficient manner. (If someone wants to give me the rundown on

that I would really appreciate it.)

Thanks

[Guest guest]

He is refusing to eat anything that is not bread right now. He

> has not eaten all day. He looks terrible. I would think a illness or

> something were this not the culmination of the way things have been going to

> last *four* years. No fever or anything indicating illness though I am sure

> he will come down with something soon if he continues to refuse to eat.

:

Wheat is really, really addictive, esp. if the kid reacts to it. It

forms opioids in the brain, just like, well, opium. I've heard SO many

stories about kids who would eat nothing but wheat stuff ... until the

wheat was removed. My own dd was like that: pop tarts for breakfast, mac

and cheese for lunch, sandwich for dinner.

When I went off wheat myself, I still made " bread " for everyone else, so

they did get pizza and sandwiches etc, but not made out of wheat. I did

this mainly for ME because I didn't want the stuff in the house, it

really does make me sick, though it doesn't actually seem to make them

visibly ill.

Amazingly enough, they ate a lot of the GF goodies at first, then

stopped wanting it. They started eating vegies and fruits, and

preferring them over bready stuff. They started eating goat cheese and

lox. Interesting things happened to their appetites too ... my dh used

to eat a whole pizza in one sitting, now he eats one or two slices and

gets full (though he still loves it!). I serve them Tinkyada rice pasta,

which is quite good and visitors don't know it's not " real " pasta, but

it's not near as addictive and sometimes my dd, who used to be a noodle

addict, will eat just the sauce now. I do make gooey desserts, but

usually they scarf down one piece and don't finish them. They also

stopped drinking soda mostly.

Their moods changed dramatically also. The " anger fits " stopped, and

they are really, really calm kids now. The stomach aches, foot aches,

headaches, and canker sores stopped too. My dd and dh both slimmed down:

my dh is now back to his high school weight and looks great.

Anyway, you might want to research it yourself. If you can get him

tested for gluten intolerance, that would be a good idea. The commercial

foods he is being exposed to are higher in gluten than most wheat, for

starters, plus the additives etc. can help damage the gut even more

which allows those darn opioids to escape. Taking him off all the

goodies would be very difficult at this point though, so if it was me

I'd be sneakier and just substitute non-wheat gluten-free replacements

and see what happens.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Do you think your 6-yr-old would eat the foods if you let him get involved

preparing the foods alongside of you?

Darrell

[Guest guest]

> Wheat is really, really addictive, esp. if the kid reacts to it.

It

> forms opioids in the brain, just like, well, opium. I've heard SO

many

> stories about kids who would eat nothing but wheat stuff ... until

the

> wheat was removed. My own dd was like that: pop tarts for

breakfast, mac

> and cheese for lunch, sandwich for dinner.

> <snip>

> Anyway, you might want to research it yourself. If you can get him

> tested for gluten intolerance, that would be a good idea. The

commercial

thnaks for the input Heidi. I have asked pretty much every doctor he

has ever seen (military=lots of doctor changes) since he has these

little pimple-ish bumps on the back of his arms that have spread

across pretty much most of his body now as I read somewhere that can

be a sign of gluten intolerance. Every doctor has asked if there is

family history of it and when I say that no one in my family has

been tested, none of them will touch it. I can't afford to go

outside of the insurance at this point as much as I wish I could.

Though maybe if I end up taking him in for refusing to eat anything

they will listen to me. I don't know.... Just so frustrating. We

really don't have much in the way of processed stuff or bread stuff

in the house anyway though my dh is insistent on having bread here

for sandwhiches as much as I try to get that out the door. I have

tried getting alternative breads but he always goes back to the

grocery store natures own honey wheat type. What other " symptoms "

might be indicative of gluten intolerance. He doesn't seem to have

any mood swings (other than if he is really hungry or really tired),

get very occasional leg cramps (I figure that is lack of magnesium

from not enough fruits/veggies)....

I will start reading up on it though.

Guess I need to start looking sround for a doctor. Maybe I can

figure something out with one who might be willing to test him....

Thanks for the ideas.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Darrell " <lazlo75501@y...>

wrote:

> Do you think your 6-yr-old would eat the foods if you let him get

involved

> preparing the foods alongside of you?

>

> Darrell

Hi Darrell, thanks for the thought. I have always invited him to

help out. He started cutting soft fruits and veggies as soon as he

could hold a knife much to the chagrin of my extended family members

when we were around them (he has never cut himself and gives

everyone else reminders on how to handle knives safely

He has seemed to loose interest in it other than cracking eggs an

occasionally measuring ingridents here and there. I still invite him

to help. I was hoping to start a garden this year thinking maybe

that might encourage him. We actually grew some tomatoes indoors but

he wouldn't even touch them. I have some chayote squash and sweet

pottaoes that started to do their thing in my veggie basket, so we

will plant those in containers soon. I am not doing a permenant

garden as we are hoping to move to another state and awaiting the

answer from the change of assignment request.

I keep trying though, thanks for the reminder. I realized after I

typed that I really haven't been making sure to specifically invite

him to help as much lately.

[Guest guest]

zanyzingzap wrote:

>

>

> > Wheat is really, really addictive, esp. if the kid reacts to it.

> It

> > forms opioids in the brain, just like, well, opium. I've heard SO

> many

> > stories about kids who would eat nothing but wheat stuff ... until

> the

> > wheat was removed. My own dd was like that: pop tarts for

> breakfast, mac

> > and cheese for lunch, sandwich for dinner.

> > <snip>

> > Anyway, you might want to research it yourself. If you can get him

> > tested for gluten intolerance, that would be a good idea. The

> commercial

>

> thnaks for the input Heidi. I have asked pretty much every doctor he

> has ever seen (military=lots of doctor changes) since he has these

> little pimple-ish bumps on the back of his arms that have spread

> across pretty much most of his body now as I read somewhere that can

> be a sign of gluten intolerance. Every doctor has asked if there is

> family history of it and when I say that no one in my family has

> been tested, none of them will touch it. I can't afford to go

> outside of the insurance at this point as much as I wish I could.

> Though maybe if I end up taking him in for refusing to eat anything

> they will listen to me.

It is really difficult to find a doctor who will even LOOK for gluten

intolerance. There are some though, esp. the naturopaths. Of course if

you are stuck with military doctors that could be an issue! The York IgA

saliva test is $149, which isn't cheap, but it might work for you.

http://yorkallergyusa.com/tests.html

What worked for me is that I printed out the following article from the

JAMA, highlighted my symptoms and the required tests, and said would you

PLEASE test me just to humor me? The fact it was a JAMA article floored

the doctor. It's an older article and the numbers aren't accurate (it

says 1 in 200 people have it, it's more like 1 in 100 or one in 33 or

one in 10, depending on who you read). I can't find the article with

pictures right now (my computer isn't totally rebuilt yet) but it is:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3225/is_n5_v57/ai_20460458

Has a great picture of those " little bumps " too.

I don't know.... Just so frustrating. We

> really don't have much in the way of processed stuff or bread stuff

> in the house anyway though my dh is insistent on having bread here

> for sandwhiches as much as I try to get that out the door. I have

> tried getting alternative breads but he always goes back to the

> grocery store natures own honey wheat type.

Just keep " DHs " bread up high, and get some GF bread for the kid. Let

the kid have LOTS of non-gluten bread if he wants it, with plenty of

butter and jam and peanut butter even and non-gluten cookies for that

matter, and even junk GF cereal if that's what it takes. He might eat

MORE of them at first, if it's an opioid thing, because the body will be

looking for more of the opioid and try to get it by eating more of the

bready stuff. But you said your son is 6 or so? He can't get his own

food yet, so you still have total control (for now!). If he improves on

the GF diet, then he'll be a whole lot more amenable to healthy foods,

partly because his body won't be craving starches so much as his

absorption improves and he'll be over the opioid thing.

The problem is that it takes like a month for a reaction to totally " go

away " and the reaction can be to trace amounts. When I finally did go

GF, I really wasn't eating much bread at all, just some Wasa crackers

and beer. Also, he could be reacting to milk too (though since he craves

bread, I'd suspect gluten first).

What other " symptoms "

> might be indicative of gluten intolerance. He doesn't seem to have

> any mood swings (other than if he is really hungry or really tired),

> get very occasional leg cramps (I figure that is lack of magnesium

> from not enough fruits/veggies)....

First, MOST folks who have outright celiac, which involves a LOT of

damage to the gut, not just gluten intolerance, STILL have no symptoms

at all, when they do random blood tests. Said people do end up feeling

better going GF, but they are used to their current state.

Foot pains seem common, in the bones not the muscles like magnesium

cramps. Also are canker sores, tummy pains, bloated belly, diarrhea,

constipation, rectal itching, and the skin problems as you already

mentioned. And tooth enamel problems. One official list from the article

above follows:

Body system Presentation

General systemic Adults: lassitude, inanition, depression,

fatigue, irritability, general malnutrition

with or without weight loss

Children: irritability, fretfulness, emotional

withdrawal or excessive dependence, nausea,

anorexia, malnutrition with protruberant

abdomen, muscle wasting of buttocks, thighs

and proximal arms; with or without vomiting

and diarrhea

Skin and mucous Aphthous stomatitis (recurrent)

membranes Angular cheilitis

Atopic dermatitis (persistent or recurrent)

Dermatitis herpetiformis (in 5 percent of

patients with celiac disease)

Alopecia areata (especially alopecia

universalis)

Melanosis (chloasma bronzium)

Erythema nodosum

Skeletal system Osteoporosis/osteopenia (in 100 percent of

patients with celiac disease)

Dental enamel defects

Short stature

Arthritis or arthralgia (central

arthritis-sacroiliitis in 63 percent of

patients with celiac disease)

Bone pain, especially nocturnal

Hematologic system Anemia (iron deficiency is the most common

cause), folic acid deficiency in 10 to 40

percent of children and 90 percent of adults;

[b.sub.12] deficiency (rare)

Leukopenia, coagulopathy and thrombocytosis.

Gastrointestinal Diarrhea in 60 percent of patients (small

system intestinal type), early diarrhea occurs with

infrequent, large, watery, foul stools; later

diarrhea occurs more frequently

Constipation in 20 percent of patients, with

occasional obstipation and pseudo-obstruction

Lactose intolerance in 50 percent of patients

with gastrointestinal symptoms

Anorexia, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain and

bloating

Pancreatitis, hepatitis, lymphoma

Immune system Associated autoimmune diseases:

Diabetes mellitus type 1

Thyroid disease

Sjogren's syndrome

Collagen disorders

Rheumatoid arthritis

Liver disease

Selective IgA deficiency

Reproductive Delayed puberty

system Infertility

Neurologic system Seizures, with or without occipital

calcification

Unexplained neuropathic illnesses, including

ataxia and peripheral neuropathies

Dementia

Other associated Down syndrome

conditions IgA nephropathy

Fibrosing alveolitis of the lung

Hyposplenism, with atrophy of the spleen

> I will start reading up on it though.

> Guess I need to start looking sround for a doctor. Maybe I can

> figure something out with one who might be willing to test him....

The telephone is a good start! Let your fingers do the walking

(depending on your insurance). If your son has ANY tummy problems you

might be able to talk to a gastro, and they know more about it.

Also, here is something from Ron Hoggan:

http://www.gluten-free.org/hoggan/pickeat.txt

When a child is a picky eater, he is often making a statement.

Perhaps your son also has some food intolerances/allergies. Perhaps that

is the root of his " picky eating. " Because he is so taken with pasta

cereal, and macaroni, I would like to suggest that you get blood tests for

celiac disease and grain sensitivity. Some celiacs are addicted to gluten.

Your boy sounds addicted.

That may sound like a strong word, but let me explain. The pepsin digests

of milk and gluten result in peptides that are psychoactive. In normal

people, these peptides are further digested into amino acids, then absorbed

into the bloodstream. In some people with food intolerances, because of

damage to the intestinal wall, these psychoactive peptides are absorbed

into the blood, without further break-down. They may circumvent the blood

brain barrier, or they may swamp it. In either case, when the peptides

reach the brain, they act in much the same way that opium does, and attach

to the same receptors in the brain. Some celiacs aren't very interested in

eating if they can't get that satisfaction. Even if your boy does not have

celiac disease, I would have him tested for other food intolerances.

If he demonstrates antibodies against either milk (casein) or gluten

(gliadin), I would restrict both from his diet.

For further information, you might want to look at the posts of Dr.

Reichelt, and some other researchers exploring developmental delays.

see:

http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/reichelt.html

For more general info see:

The Gluten-Free Page: http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/

The No Milk Page: http://www.panix.com/~nomilk/

I hope this is helpful.

Best Wishes,

Ron Hoggan Calgary, Alberta, Canada

--------------------------------

Good luck!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

zanyzingzap wrote:

>

> WOW! Thanks for so much information. In the time it took me to get

> into the shower and out no less

> I just started talking to my dh about it. He says if it helps he

> will give up the bread at home and just keep sandwich stuff in his

> office at work (luckily he has an office he can do that!), and he

> will back me up on getting ds tested if it helps us figure out what

> to do.

> Thanks so much for sharing the information with me. I hope so much

> this is the clue I have been missing! Not that I want ds to have

> intolerances or out right celiac, it would just be really nice to

> solve the mystery and to help him feel better!

>

Good luck! If it DOES turn out to be intolerances, it really isn't the

worst thing in the world, esp. if you already eating NT. Everyone I know

who did end up having going GF says it's a life-changing experience, and

life is soooo much better.

And kudos to your dh!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Good luck!

>

> -- Heidi Jean

WOW! Thanks for so much information. In the time it took me to get

into the shower and out no less

I just started talking to my dh about it. He says if it helps he

will give up the bread at home and just keep sandwich stuff in his

office at work (luckily he has an office he can do that!), and he

will back me up on getting ds tested if it helps us figure out what

to do.

Thanks so much for sharing the information with me. I hope so much

this is the clue I have been missing! Not that I want ds to have

intolerances or out right celiac, it would just be really nice to

solve the mystery and to help him feel better!

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " zanyzingzap "

I have asked pretty much every doctor he

> has ever seen (military=lots of doctor changes) since he has these

> little pimple-ish bumps on the back of his arms that have spread

> across pretty much most of his body now as I read somewhere that can

> be a sign of gluten intolerance.

It can also be a sign of EFA and Vitamin A deficiencies. Which if celiac is

a factor, then that could be malabsorption, which could lead to vitamin

deficiencies. It all ties in.

If you're looking for a good GI test, then I'd recommend

http://www.enterolabs.com.

HTH!

--s

[Guest guest]

zanyzingzap wrote:

> What worked for me is that I printed out the following article from the

> JAMA, highlighted my symptoms and the required tests, and said would you

> PLEASE test me just to humor me? The fact it was a JAMA article floored

> the doctor. It's an older article and the numbers aren't accurate (it

> says 1 in 200 people have it, it's more like 1 in 100 or one in 33 or

> one in 10, depending on who you read). I can't find the article with

> pictures right now (my computer isn't totally rebuilt yet) but it is:

>

> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3225/is_n5_v57/ai_20460458

JAMA numbers are higher in this Dec '02 Townsend Letter for Doctors &

Patients article

A recent report in JAMA, found that the prevalence of CD in 1200 screened

children and adolescent patients ranged between 1 in 57 and 1 in 33.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Dec/ai_94538644

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

wrote:

" thnaks for the input Heidi. ... he has these little pimple-ish bumps on

the back of his arms that have spread across pretty much most of his

body now as I read somewhere that can be a sign of gluten intolerance.

....dh is insistent on having bread here "

The bumps were the only sign my son had. He's 7 and he sounds exactly

like your son in his eating habits - at least until recently. We

discovered about 3 months ago - thanks to Heidi, the Glutenator - that

we were all allergic to gluten and casein (milk protein). My son's

picky eating has been getting gradually better. Yea!

Sounds like your husband may be addicted as well.

Suzanne wrote:

" If you're looking for a good GI test, then I'd recommend

http://www.enterolabs.com. "

That's www.enterolab.com :-) If you just run gluten on him, it'll be

$119. It's a stool test and is the one that we used - thanks to

Suzanne's recc.

Also, we have a gluten free (and/or casein free) group,

if you'd like to join us for discussions. Anyone else is welcome, too, btw.

GFCFNN/

Steph

[Guest guest]

--- In , Steph <flybabysteph@b...>

wrote:

>

> The bumps were the only sign my son had. He's 7 and he sounds

exactly

> like your son in his eating habits - at least until recently. We

Wow! I have watched this bumps since he was very small. EVERYONE on

my side of my family has them, not so much on my dh's side. My dad

and I have both asked doctors about them, and got the " ok it could

be dermatitis, it could be.... " type answers.

The interesting thing is we caved on the fruits and veggies thing. I

figure if the kid is going to go without eating for 3 days and to

the point of vomiting and weakness, I am not going to starve him to

make a point. As soon as we let him eat something he was better

within hours. I told dh that it really did seem like his body was

going thru a major withdrawal type illness. We had a talk about it

and told him that since we suspect his body may have trouble with

wheat/bread that we will rearrange the " rule " for now till we can

get it looked into. But we are going to go ahead and try going

gluten free for a while to see if we notice a change. Well at home

we are. DH is bringing his bagels and bread to work. I have started

putting out feelers to my " alternative " friends who might know of

doctors who are open minded about parents being involved with their

children's health and not just bowing to the doctors guesses.

Thanks for the additional info on the places to do testing. I am

thinking if I remember correctly that when I was seeing a

chiro/naturopath a few years back that they could order tests and I

could have them done at the lab on base (as long as they did them)

and have the results sent to their office. I kind of stopped going

there as they got too commercial and pushing their products

(nutritional supplements) for my liking but maybe I will see if that

is an option to get the testing done.

My head is spinning, I am tired I need to get some rest so I can

think clearly.

Thanks for all the info from everyone. I really appreciate the help.

I kind of wish I had pushed this years ago when I suspected it first

but I let myself get put off by the all-knowing military docs... Ah

well. At least now rather than when he is an adult and has 20 or

more years of damage....

thanks again