calcium supplementation

[Guest guest]

at what intervals? Was it decided in a thread earlier?

A fury of leg cramps in the night. Ow.

B

[Guest guest]

-

>at what intervals? Was it decided in a thread earlier?

>A fury of leg cramps in the night. Ow.

As calcium can have a slightly sedating effect (it assists in the

production of melatonin) I generally see people recommend that it be taken

at night. That probably means that taking it with dinner is best.

-

[Guest guest]

> As calcium can have a slightly sedating effect (it assists in the

> production of melatonin) I generally see people recommend that it be

taken

> at night. That probably means that taking it with dinner is best.

,

Will it inhibit my digestive ability? It's already a bit pallid.

B.

[Guest guest]

I take both calcium & magnesium along with pepsin-free HCl thinking (hoping)

the extra acid will help my stomach break down the chalky stuff. It seems to

be working (but then everything is suddenly working..) as my fingernails are

strong and smooth.

BTW, I've been taking HCl with meals for over a year now (5 capsules) and

when I got the biopsy last month my doctor said my stomach was shown to be

in optimal condition which means the HCl dosn't seem to be harming it in any

way. This is great news for someone who had an ulcer two years ago.

~Robin Ann

[Guest guest]

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>Will it inhibit my digestive ability? It's already a bit pallid.

Pallid? If I understand you correctly, any supplement can be an added

digestive burden to people with digestive problems, so you'll want to get

the best supplement you can possibly find and then maybe try some digestive

aids if those are necessary.

Unfortunately, the best calcium supplement I know of is Dr. Schmid's, and

it has a grievous flaw: magnesium oxide.

-

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>I take both calcium & magnesium along with pepsin-free HCl thinking (hoping)

>the extra acid will help my stomach break down the chalky stuff. It seems to

>be working (but then everything is suddenly working..) as my fingernails are

>strong and smooth.

Adequate HCl is necessary for calcium absorption, but chalky-type

supplements aren't the best form at all, if you're talking literally.

-

[Guest guest]

> Adequate HCl is necessary for calcium absorption, but chalky-type

> supplements aren't the best form at all, if you're talking literally.

,

Okay, this is my actual question:

Is-it-is or is-it-ain't good to take HCl with cal/mag supps?

Just seems contradictory.

I fear taking cal/mag with meals because I may have difficulty

digesting the meal. But if I can just override it with extra acid, fine.

B.

[Guest guest]

>

> >[robin]I take both calcium & magnesium along with pepsin-free HCl

> > >thinking (hoping) the extra acid will help my stomach break down >the

> > chalky stuff. It seems to be working (but then everything is >suddenly

> > working..) as my fingernails are strong and smooth.

> >

>

> [paul] Adequate HCl is necessary for calcium absorption, but chalky-type

> supplements aren't the best form at all, if you're talking literally.

Hi , I'm taking Dr. Scmid's Calcium and I also take a couple different

magnesium supplements (I think a gylcinate, citrate and aspartate.) When I

said chalky I meant that, by their very nature, the minerals are quite

alkaline and so my already hylpochloridic stomach needs a little boost in

acid when taking these things. For example, last night at bedtime I took a

couple calcium capsules and one 475 mg. HCl w/o pepsin -- no problem -- I

just lay down and felt no burning whatsoever. I can't see how it can hurt.

But I'd love to know your thoughts...

BTW, I found another HCl w/o pepsin at

http://www.vpnutrition.com/product_info.php/products_id/47

~Robin

[Guest guest]

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>Is-it-is or is-it-ain't good to take HCl with cal/mag supps?

If you're producing plenty of HCl yourself, there's no need, but HCl is

necessary for assimilation of calcium (and magnesium, frankly) so if you

have any measure of hypochlorhydria, supplementing will be beneficial.

>I fear taking cal/mag with meals because I may have difficulty

>digesting the meal. But if I can just override it with extra acid, fine

It's best taken with meals because meals prompt HCl secretion and because

meals can include vitamin D, which has to be present along with the calcium

for it to be absorbed. I suppose you could try taking it on its own with

some HCl, but then the HCl is more likely to be irritating.

-

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>(I think a gylcinate, citrate and aspartate.)

I'd be REALLY cautious about the aspartate if I were you. It's excitotoxic.

>When I

>said chalky I meant that, by their very nature, the minerals are quite

>alkaline and so my already hylpochloridic stomach needs a little boost in

>acid when taking these things.

Ah.

I don't know that there's any truth to this at all whatsoever in any way

shape or form to any degree in any respect etc., but I've read that MCHC

calcium (i.e. from bone) is " neutral " .

> BTW, I found another HCl w/o pepsin at

>http://www.vpnutrition.com/product_info.php/products_id/47

Cool! Thanks! Though I also know where to get betaine HCl in bulk now if

you're interested. I'd buy some if only I could also buy pepsin and thus

make a filler-free HCl+pepsin for myself, though I'm sure I'd have to wear

a mask while capping it.

-

[Guest guest]

On 8/3/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> Is-it-is or is-it-ain't good to take HCl with cal/mag supps?

>

> Just seems contradictory.

What's contradictory about it? You can only utilize those minerals in

the presence of acid.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> What's contradictory about it? You can only utilize those minerals in

> the presence of acid.

It just seems kooky to my simple mind. A supplement that is very

alkaline followed by a supplement that is very acid to mitigate the

effects of the alkalinity. Sounds, well...allopathic.

When explained that the acid is needed for the assimilation, I

was able to see it differently.

B.

[Guest guest]

> It's best taken with meals because meals prompt HCl secretion and

>because meals can include vitamin D, which has to be present along

>with the calcium for it to be absorbed. I suppose you could try

>taking it on its own with some HCl, but then the HCl is more likely

>to be irritating.

> -

I hope I made it clear in my post that I when I took calcium and

madnesium between meals, I only used HCl that had NO pepsin in it.

475mg. of pure and simple betaine has never caused me any irritation

or heat when taken with minerals on an empty stomach. You should know

that I produce almost no stomach acid though...

By the way, here's a good blurb on factors of calcium absorption:

http://www.paleodiet.com/losspts.txt

~Robin Ann

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>I hope I made it clear in my post that I when I took calcium and

>madnesium between meals, I only used HCl that had NO pepsin in it.

Good point I should've made. NEVER take pepsin without some protein for it

to digest.

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[Guest guest]

Robin-

>By the way, here's a good blurb on factors of calcium absorption:

>http://www.paleodiet.com/losspts.txt

I'm afraid there are several problems with that article, though some of the

information in it is certainly good.

First, it astoundingly fails to mention stomach acid! Without acid to free

calcium ions from whatever calcium source one consumes, there's not going

to be any calcium absorption.

Second, it makes the extremely dubious assertion that we evolved on a

low-sodium diet and recommends drastically limiting salt. As WAPF

explains, this isn't really supportable at all.

Third, though it mentions that vitamin D is important, it doesn't explain

that vitamin D is an essential cofactor for the absorption of

calcium. IOW, vitamin D has to be there in the gut WITH calcium for it to

be absorbed.

Fourth, it extrapolates from the possible harm to bone density done by

isolated fractionated egg and milk protein powders to a recommendation to

avoid eggs and dairy themselves. Completely unsupported.

All in all, an incomplete and somewhat misleading article.

-

[Guest guest]

You're right . Excellent points. With your corrections and additions it

looks like you've come up with a nice " mineral absorption " list for the

files.. ~Robin

On 8/4/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

>

> Robin-

>

> >By the way, here's a good blurb on factors of calcium absorption:

> >http://www.paleodiet.com/losspts.txt

>

> I'm afraid there are several problems with that article, though some of

> the

> information in it is certainly good.

>

> First, it astoundingly fails to mention stomach acid! Without acid to free

>

> calcium ions from whatever calcium source one consumes, there's not going

> to be any calcium absorption.

>

> Second, it makes the extremely dubious assertion that we evolved on a

> low-sodium diet and recommends drastically limiting salt. As WAPF

> explains, this isn't really supportable at all.

>

> Third, though it mentions that vitamin D is important, it doesn't explain

> that vitamin D is an essential cofactor for the absorption of

> calcium. IOW, vitamin D has to be there in the gut WITH calcium for it to

> be absorbed.

>

> Fourth, it extrapolates from the possible harm to bone density done by

> isolated fractionated egg and milk protein powders to a recommendation to

> avoid eggs and dairy themselves. Completely unsupported.

>

> All in all, an incomplete and somewhat misleading article.

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Why is magnesium oxide a " grievous flaw " ?

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> -

>

> >Will it inhibit my digestive ability? It's already a bit pallid.

>

> Pallid? If I understand you correctly, any supplement can be an

added

> digestive burden to people with digestive problems, so you'll want

to get

> the best supplement you can possibly find and then maybe try some

digestive

> aids if those are necessary.

>

> Unfortunately, the best calcium supplement I know of is Dr.

Schmid's, and

> it has a grievous flaw: magnesium oxide.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

>

> Why is magnesium oxide a " grievous flaw " ?

,

because 's prone to hyperbole.

B.

/Said the pot to the kettle, " Get away, blackface. "

- Don Quixote

[Guest guest]

-

>Why is magnesium oxide a " grievous flaw " ?

It's not meaningfully absorbable (it's by far the least bioavailable form

of magnesium on the market) and it's a gut irritant which can cause and

aggravate diarrhea in many people. Nobody who has any kind of gut issues

should take it. It also reduces the activity of pepsin and the absorption

of folic acid and probably interferes with other nutrients and systems

too. It's garbage.

I still reluctantly take Dr. Schmid's supplement because in every other way

it's the best available by far -- low-temp MCHC from organic grass-fed cows

and no noxious fillers, plus all the essential co-factors except for

strontium, which should really be taken separately anyway -- but whenever

my gut health dips a bit, it gives me problems, and I know the oxide isn't

doing me any good even when I have no overt symptoms from it. Believe me,

if there were a superior alternative, I'd be all over it.

-

[Guest guest]

What about magnesium chloride?

mike

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> -

>

> >Why is magnesium oxide a " grievous flaw " ?

>

> It's not meaningfully absorbable (it's by far the least

bioavailable form

> of magnesium on the market) and it's a gut irritant which can cause

and

> aggravate diarrhea in many people. Nobody who has any kind of gut

issues

> should take it. It also reduces the activity of pepsin and the

absorption

> of folic acid and probably interferes with other nutrients and

systems

> too. It's garbage.

>

> I still reluctantly take Dr. Schmid's supplement because in every

other way

> it's the best available by far -- low-temp MCHC from organic grass-

fed cows

> and no noxious fillers, plus all the essential co-factors except

for

> strontium, which should really be taken separately anyway -- but

whenever

> my gut health dips a bit, it gives me problems, and I know the

oxide isn't

> doing me any good even when I have no overt symptoms from it.

Believe me,

> if there were a superior alternative, I'd be all over it.

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Mike-

>What about magnesium chloride?

Eh... It's used in IV magnesium, but I'm a little skeptical about the

effects of all that extra chloride, and it's not necessarily the easiest on

the gut either. AFAIK the best supplemental form is taurate.

-

[Guest guest]

,

What about the form of magnesium found in shellfish? What is that?

mike

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Mike-

>

> >What about magnesium chloride?

>

> Eh... It's used in IV magnesium, but I'm a little skeptical about

the

> effects of all that extra chloride, and it's not necessarily the

easiest on

> the gut either. AFAIK the best supplemental form is taurate.

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

On 8/4/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Robin-

>

> >I hope I made it clear in my post that I when I took calcium and

> >madnesium between meals, I only used HCl that had NO pepsin in it.

>

> Good point I should've made. NEVER take pepsin without some protein for it

> to digest.

Why? Does it eat away at the stomach lining?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Why? Does it eat away at the stomach lining?

It can, though that depends on the quality if your stomach's mucous lining,

but the bigger danger is probably to your intestines.

-

[Guest guest]

?

I know I'm working this thing into the ground, but please indulge me

once again:

Okay, I've got my HCl/pepsin and Di-pan caps in hand; I've got my

shot glass of cal/mag powder mixed with a little water; I've got my

meal at the ready...

In which order do I consume these things?

Last night I took the enzymes/acid first and then the calcium,

then...ate? I understand the real problem is my underlying anxiety,

but I'm hoping your edict will provide some relief.

B.