Re: Celexa Experiment

[Guest guest]

Here and there I read on forums that people did restore some function by going back on meds. Somehow resetting the brain seems not unlogical. Good luck!

This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on a 30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either way. I think it's worth a shot.

Luther

[Guest guest]

Luther,

It is not that odd, there's been a lot of discussion about trying something like

this however most people haven't wanted to take the risk of making things worse.

I am concerned that you are building up to an almost normal dose, then planning

to quit cold turkey.

As you must know there are people here who developed PSSD after very short

stints on an SSRI, even after just one dose. A disproportionate number of us

in this group seem to have quite cold turkey...

If you go through with this, why wouldn't you want to taper off very carefully

at the end?

I don't mean to be discouraging. I actually think something like this might

work but we just don't know. Did you taper off carefully before finding

yourself with PSSD?

Ziggi

>

>

> This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on a

30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I

haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

>

> For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and

slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then

stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the

standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

>

> I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either

way. I think it's worth a shot.

>

> Luther

>

[Guest guest]

I may end up stopping before I get to the last 3 days at 15mg. I think this

" experiment " is low risk with the exception of the last 3 days. Basically, every

3 days I'm multiplying my dose by 10. So before I get to 15mg, I'll be at 1.5mg

for 3 days..which is still a very small dose.

I quit Celexa cold turkey.

Honestly, I think other factors have contributed to my long term problems.

Overexposure to porn during and after SSRI use have further desensitized me..so

I quit porn (and masturbation temporarily) on 10/29. Also, I haven't had any

meaningful relationships with a woman in 6 years. I'm working towards changing

that as well.

Luther

> >

> >

> > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on a

30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I

haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> >

> > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and

slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then

stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the

standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> >

> > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either

way. I think it's worth a shot.

> >

> > Luther

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Keep us posted on this experiment!

Also I believe that only 3 days on 15mg dose can't do any harm as that isn't

long enough for receptors to downregulate. But maybe at that point, if there are

withdrawal symptoms of previous SSRI use, you may be able to tell if it's that,

or another issue. I hope this resets your receptors! I'm really curious!

> > >

> > >

> > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on

a 30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I

haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > >

> > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and

slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then

stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the

standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> > >

> > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either

way. I think it's worth a shot.

> > >

> > > Luther

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This is interesting. Does the choice of SSRI make a difference?I got pssd from lexapro (escitrapolom) which is a very very potent ssri and i was on a pretty high dose and went off it cold turkey but never had any problems with effexor.

ive had pssd for 3 years and it is not showing any improvements whatsoever and so called antidotes such as cabergoline, buproprion and trazodone are doing nothing. Do people think the best way to do this is to use a very low dose and build up until the sex drive shows improvements and then very very slowly taper off?

I have pillcutters but the pills are already so damn small it is very hard to titrate in a meaningful way.

 

Keep us posted on this experiment!

Also I believe that only 3 days on 15mg dose can't do any harm as that isn't long enough for receptors to downregulate. But maybe at that point, if there are withdrawal symptoms of previous SSRI use, you may be able to tell if it's that, or another issue. I hope this resets your receptors! I'm really curious!

> > >

> > >

> > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on a 30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > >

> > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> > >

> > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either way. I think it's worth a shot.

> > >

> > > Luther

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I concluded the same thing. 

That too much porn and masturbation were interfering with

developing my own libido, so quit both.  Libido et al., did come

back.  (I was coming off Effexor.  I also take Wellbutrin,

Clonazepam, and Trazodone for sleep -- Traz. is a "mild" SSRI.)

I wouldn't recommend quitting cold turkey.  Any med, not

just SSRI's.  They've taken over part of your functioning

(whatever med you may take) and quitting cold turkey would be a

real jolt to your hormonal/neurotransmitter balance.  Or so I

would guess.

At first I was kind of shocked at your doc's suggestion to go

back on Celexa to reset your brain, but it's an interesting idea

& you've already started on it, so I'm curious as to how

well it works.

Ann

 

I may end up stopping before I get to the last 3 days at

15mg. I think this "experiment" is low risk with the

exception of the last 3 days. Basically, every 3 days I'm

multiplying my dose by 10. So before I get to 15mg, I'll

be at 1.5mg for 3 days..which is still a very small dose.

I quit Celexa cold turkey.

Honestly, I think other factors have contributed to my

long term problems. Overexposure to porn during and after

SSRI use have further desensitized me..so I quit porn (and

masturbation temporarily) on 10/29. Also, I haven't had

any meaningful relationships with a woman in 6 years. I'm

working towards changing that as well.

Luther

> >

> >

> > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a

traditional/naturopath) has me on a 30 day plan where I'm

going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I

haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in

early 2004.

> >

> > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a

miniscule dose of .03ng/day and slowly working my way up

to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop.

I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg

is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3

years.

> >

> > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd

appreciate some feedback either way. I think it's worth a

shot.

> >

> > Luther

> >

>

--

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go

by."

[Guest guest]

My doctor thought it was very important to go back on the original SSRI that

caused PSSD, not simply another SSRI. The compounding pharmacy actually had

trouble getting it, as apparently Celexa isn't prescribed that often anymore.

I would recommend not messing with the pro-dopamine drugs. I think the brain

needs time to recover on its own.

Luther

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has

> > me on a 30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my

> > brain. I haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early

> > 2004.

> > > > >

> > > > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day

> > and slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and

> > then stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is

> > close to the standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> > > > >

> > > > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback

> > either way. I think it's worth a shot.

> > > > >

> > > > > Luther

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've done quite a bit of research on the topic of porn/masturbation addiction,

and it looks like porn addicts have the same symptoms as we do. Reason being the

mind/body eventually gets trained to get an erection only through hardcore porn

viewing and manual stimulation. The brain's reward system gets screwed up.

I tend to think had I not used porn as a recovery tool, I may be in better shape

today because it only makes things worse.

Luther

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me

on a 30 day plan where

> > I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't taken it

since I started

> > having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > > >

> > > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day

and slowly working my

> > way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a little

concerned about the

> > last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I was on

for 3 years.

> > > >

> > > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback

either way. I think it's

> > worth a shot.

> > > >

> > > > Luther

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

> --

> " I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. "

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. I did after PSSD experience a transient increase in sex drive, really quite significant, on effexor even tho my pssd was from lexapro. it was a low dose of the xr i cannot remember how low. But the effect wore off as i upped the dose, as at that point my primary concern was getting rid of depression as i was in a hard grad course at the time.

what is the idea? how long do you stay on it before you taper off. and what increments do you taper off bearing in mind the dose structures are quite inflexible.

 

I've done quite a bit of research on the topic of porn/masturbation addiction, and it looks like porn addicts have the same symptoms as we do. Reason being the mind/body eventually gets trained to get an erection only through hardcore porn viewing and manual stimulation. The brain's reward system gets screwed up.

I tend to think had I not used porn as a recovery tool, I may be in better shape today because it only makes things worse.

Luther

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on a 30 day plan where

> > I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't taken it since I started

> > having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > > >

> > > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and slowly working my

> > way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a little concerned about the

> > last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> > > >

> > > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either way. I think it's

> > worth a shot.

> > > >

> > > > Luther

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

> --

> " I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. "

>

[Guest guest]

It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I " taper up " (if that makes

sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really

tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

Luther

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath)

> > has me on a 30 day plan where

> > > > I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't

> > taken it since I started

> > > > having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of

> > .03ng/day and slowly working my

> > > > way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a

> > little concerned about the

> > > > last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I

> > was on for 3 years.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback

> > either way. I think it's

> > > > worth a shot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Luther

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > " I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. "

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That makes no sense to me. A lot of people with pssd quit their drugs cold turkey. So why would doing the same thing help?I could understand the logic of going on an ssri and building up slowly and after a few months tapering off very slowly.

Id be very grateful if you could explain your physician's logic and keep us updated on the progress

 

It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I " taper up " (if that makes sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

Luther

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath)

> > has me on a 30 day plan where

> > > > I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't

> > taken it since I started

> > > > having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of

> > .03ng/day and slowly working my

> > > > way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a

> > little concerned about the

> > > > last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I

> > was on for 3 years.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback

> > either way. I think it's

> > > > worth a shot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Luther

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > " I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by. "

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm having a very (very!) positive reaction to 5htp. It's not back to normal (yet?) but at least the good feeling is back again. Including orgasms of the type that give an answer to the meaning of life. And that after 3 days and 6 pills. Very nice after a year and a half of numbness...hope it lasts.I understood 5htp is a serotonin booster. Could it be that at least one type of PSSD is caused by the body producing very little or no serotonin as a result of SSRI use which flooded the brain with serotonin?Such a cause would explain why some people benefit from going back on meds or recover from 5htp. Others don't so there must be other causes as well. I'm guessing the possibilities are that either people don't make enough serotonin or have become insensitive to it. If what you are doing has any results I guess you belong to the first category. I wonder if you can reset the brain, if simply slowly tapering off will allow serotonin production to resume or that we will have to artificially keep on boosting serotonin. Those who spontaneously recover either resume production or lose their insensitivity for some reason. How do you increase sensitivity?Because if we can test that in some way the picture can become a lot clearer.

It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I "taper up" (if that makes sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

Luther

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath)

> > has me on a 30 day plan where

> > > > I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I haven't

> > taken it since I started

> > > > having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of

> > .03ng/day and slowly working my

> > > > way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then stop. I'm a

> > little concerned about the

> > > > last 3 days because 15mg is close to the standard dose of 20mg that I

> > was on for 3 years.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback

> > either way. I think it's

> > > > worth a shot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Luther

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by."

> >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I " taper up " (if that makes

sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

>

> I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really

tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

>

> Luther

>

You're very brave Luther!

But I don't understand why you want to stop cold turkey, because a lot

of us who have go the cold turkey route developed (probable) pssd!

I would taper of just the same way you taper up...

hope you see improvements the next days!

best wishes

Niko

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I actually aborted this plan today for a

variety of reasons. Even with the low initial doses, I was feeling tired and not

myself. I have a trip to Florida coming up and also holiday parties and I don't

want to feel like shit.

What's interesting is I rebounded quite nicely today. I'm wondering if cycling

on and off would help.

I may try again after the new year when I will be more capable of toughing it

out without all the social gatherings to worry about.

Luther

> >

> >

> > It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I " taper up " (if that makes

sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

> >

> > I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling

really tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

> >

> > Luther

> >

>

> You're very brave Luther!

> But I don't understand why you want to stop cold turkey, because a lot

> of us who have go the cold turkey route developed (probable) pssd!

> I would taper of just the same way you taper up...

> hope you see improvements the next days!

>

> best wishes

>

> Niko

>

[Guest guest]

Too bad. I was hoping to try this as I have quite a lot of withdrawal symptoms not just the sexual dysfunction such as insomnia, apathy and other things that i did not have before starting.I was thinking it may be helpful to go on modest doses of effexor which i tolerated quite well (it was lexapro and elavil which cause me problems).

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I actually aborted this plan today for a variety of reasons. Even with the low initial doses, I was feeling tired and not myself. I have a trip to Florida coming up and also holiday parties and I don't want to feel like shit.

What's interesting is I rebounded quite nicely today. I'm wondering if cycling on and off would help.

I may try again after the new year when I will be more capable of toughing it out without all the social gatherings to worry about.

Luther

> >

> >

> > It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I " taper up " (if that makes sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

> >

> > I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

> >

> > Luther

> >

>

> You're very brave Luther!

> But I don't understand why you want to stop cold turkey, because a lot

> of us who have go the cold turkey route developed (probable) pssd!

> I would taper of just the same way you taper up...

> hope you see improvements the next days!

>

> best wishes

>

> Niko

>

[Guest guest]

FWIW, my PSSD symptoms appeared after 18 months (and withdrawing quickly) on Paxil(aka Seroxat), they remained for four years after taking Paxil until I was on Cymbalta for 18 months, during which time my libido was fine. I tapered very slowly off Cymbalta but the PSSD symptoms are back.To: SSRIsex Sent:

Wed, 1 December, 2010 18:33:24Subject: Re: Re: Celexa Experiment

Too bad. I was hoping to try this as I have quite a lot of withdrawal symptoms not just the sexual dysfunction such as insomnia, apathy and other things that i did not have before starting.I was thinking it may be helpful to go on modest doses of effexor which i tolerated quite well (it was lexapro and elavil which cause me problems).

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I actually aborted this plan today for a variety of reasons. Even with the low initial doses, I was feeling tired and not myself. I have a trip to Florida coming up and also holiday parties and I don't want to feel like shit.

What's interesting is I rebounded quite nicely today. I'm wondering if cycling on and off would help.

I may try again after the new year when I will be more capable of toughing it out without all the social gatherings to worry about.

Luther

> >

> >

> > It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I "taper up" (if that makes sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

> >

> > I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

> >

> > Luther

> >

>

> You're very brave Luther!

> But I don't understand why you want to stop cold turkey, because a lot

> of us who have go the cold turkey route developed (probable) pssd!

> I would taper of just the same way you taper up...

> hope you see improvements the next days!

>

> best wishes

>

> Niko

>

[Guest guest]

Hmm..since cymbalta increases noradrenaline as well as serotonin, perhaps PSSD

has got something to do with low noradrenaline levels.

Vornan

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I " taper up " (if that makes

> >>sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

> >> >

> >> > I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling

really

> >>tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

> >> >

> >> > Luther

> >> >

> >>

> >> You're very brave Luther!

> >> But I don't understand why you want to stop cold turkey, because a lot

> >> of us who have go the cold turkey route developed (probable) pssd!

> >> I would taper of just the same way you taper up...

> >> hope you see improvements the next days!

> >>

> >> best wishes

> >>

> >> Niko

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

BTW I had no PSSD-type symptoms while on Paxil. just the usual very difficult to orgasm symptomalso, I have found that 5htp has helped a bit. Not sure what other people have found here?I've been taking it for a few months. For some of the time with L-Dopa. Not sure the L-Dopa made much difference but they were supposed to be a good neurotransmitter combo.To:

SSRIsex Sent: Thu, 2 December, 2010 3:41:21Subject: Re: Celexa Experiment

Hmm..since cymbalta increases noradrenaline as well as serotonin, perhaps PSSD has got something to do with low noradrenaline levels.

Vornan

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > It's a 30 day plan. And I don't taper off, I "taper up" (if that makes

> >>sense)..once I get to 15mg, I stay on it for 3 days then quit.

> >> >

> >> > I'm not optimistic I'll complete the program. I'm on day 4 and feeling really

> >>tired. If I don't rebound in the next couple of days, I'm going to stop.

> >> >

> >> > Luther

> >> >

> >>

> >> You're very brave Luther!

> >> But I don't understand why you want to stop cold turkey, because a lot

> >> of us who have go the cold turkey route developed (probable) pssd!

> >> I would taper of just the same way you taper up...

> >> hope you see improvements the next days!

> >>

> >> best wishes

> >>

> >> Niko

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It seems totally nuts to me too, but even I am now considering this.

> >

> >

> > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on a

30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I

haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> >

> > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and

slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then

stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the

standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> >

> > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either

way. I think it's worth a shot.

> >

> > Luther

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That plan is 100% nonsense. Don't do it. The brain is not a computer, it does

not have a 'reset' button. Even if it did, you don't need a pill to push a

button.

> > >

> > >

> > > This is admittedly odd, but my doctor (a traditional/naturopath) has me on

a 30 day plan where I'm going back on Celexa in an attempt to reset my brain. I

haven't taken it since I started having PSSD symptoms in early 2004.

> > >

> > > For this 30 day span, I'm starting with a miniscule dose of .03ng/day and

slowly working my way up to 15mg/day. I will be on 15mg for 3 days and then

stop. I'm a little concerned about the last 3 days because 15mg is close to the

standard dose of 20mg that I was on for 3 years.

> > >

> > > I doubt anyone else has tried this but I'd appreciate some feedback either

way. I think it's worth a shot.

> > >

> > > Luther

> > >

> >

>