Fermented veggies

[Guest guest]

Reading NT, I'm getting the impression she uses Mason jars with tight fitting

lids. (No heat though.) That's what I used for the beets and daikon I just

threw out. (I threw them out mainly because I used the recipe in the first NT,

and then purchased the second edition, which doubles the salt and whey. But, I

think I'm going to go the straight salt route this next time.)

I know for kraut, some use crocks with weighted down plates on top. However, in

NT even kraut is done in jars with tight fitting lids.

My question is, what are you all using as containers? Are there pros and cons

of each method - crocks vs jars?

Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol,

I have been using jars for everything. I tightly cover the jar for 4-6

hours, then I place the jar on a plate and unscrew it a bit. The gases

start escaping with some liquid after a time, thus the plate

underneath. Even with straight salt, the pressure increases and needs

an escape route through the lid. Has anyone had any unpleasant

explosions with jars?

As for whey? No whey. Never again. Whey mushy. I am so pleased that

Angel mentioned this, as I started fermenting with whey one week ago. I

opened week old red cabbage kraut last night. It definitely was not as

crisp as my former salt only stash, nor as tasty. And we eat all our

krauts pretty fresh, being newbies to the trade and loving every bite of

it. Fortunately, my husband is happy with the whey contaminated kraut.

For me, it's back to the old cutting board - today, in fact, because all

I've got is whey products in the frig.

HTH,

Deanna

> I threw them out mainly because I used the recipe in the first NT, and

> then purchased the second edition, which doubles the salt and whey.

> But, I think I'm going to go the straight salt route this next time.)

>

> I know for kraut, some use crocks with weighted down plates on top.

> However, in NT even kraut is done in jars with tight fitting lids.

>

> My question is, what are you all using as containers? Are there pros

> and cons of each method - crocks vs jars?

> Carol

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

>>Carol,

I have been using jars for everything. I tightly cover the jar for 4-6

hours, then I place the jar on a plate and unscrew it a bit. The gases

start escaping with some liquid after a time, thus the plate

underneath.

Deanna<<

~~~Do you put yours in the refrigerator after a couple of days? And, without

the plates, I presume. (I wouldn't have room for plates in the refrigerator!

:-)

Carol

[Guest guest]

>Even with straight salt, the pressure increases and needs

>an escape route through the lid. Has anyone had any unpleasant

>explosions with jars?

I have not had any explosions, but some folks have. It is

decidedly not a good idea to use tight lids. I know it says

to use them in NT, but ...

I use plastic lids ... they deform under pressure and let the gas

escape. The kimchi jars from the store are made that way,

and with very heavy glass too. However, they are now going

to plastic, so if you find any glass kimchi jars, get them!

Also I've used the " French canning jars " ... if I feel there is

gas that needs to escape, I wrap a rubber band around the

latch rather than using the wire latch. Then if there is

pressure, it releases. My French canning jars are a type

that is VERY heavy glass though, so I don't worry about them

much. Most mason jars are too thin for any amount of pressure.

The plastic lids they sell at our hardware store, and GEM cultures

has them.

For making fizzy drinks, " EZ Cap " bottles are the way

to go, you can get them at beer supply stores. They can

take a lot of pressure, and if there is too much pressure,

the lid gives way before they explode. They still make

a huge mess if you don't estimate correctly. In beer making,

getting the correct amount of sugar is the big issue, so

you get the right amount of fizz without spraying the ceiling.

But beer bottles are made specifically to hold pressure, esp.

home-brew beer bottles.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

~~~Do you put yours in the refrigerator after a couple of days? And,

without the plates, I presume. (I wouldn't have room for plates in the

refrigerator! :-) - Carol

Yes, exactly. After leaving the jars out for two days, I wipe them off

and set them on the top shelf of the refrigerator. Once they cool, I

tighten the lid more. Perhaps this last step isn't necessary or even

desirable though. I find that pressure has not been a problem once cold.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

>>I have not had any explosions, but some folks have. It is

decidedly not a good idea to use tight lids. I know it says

to use them in NT, but ...

Heidi Jean<<

~~~I cannot get plastic lids or any other jars than what I have, which are Ball

Mason jars with the lids and rings, which I just bought last week, because of

NT. Do you think it would work to simply not tighten the lids? Just put them

on, but not twist them closed? Or would that not let it ferment properly?

Carol

[Guest guest]

Deanna and All,

Thanks to those on this List. Your information sounds reasonable and hopefully

will save my wasting any more, time, veggies and milk! Think I'll risk trying

some kimchi now! :-)

Carol

Yes, exactly. After leaving the jars out for two days, I wipe them off

and set them on the top shelf of the refrigerator. Once they cool, I

tighten the lid more. Perhaps this last step isn't necessary or even

desirable though. I find that pressure has not been a problem once cold.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

> ~~~I cannot get plastic lids or any other jars than what I have, which

> are Ball Mason jars with the lids and rings, which I just bought last

> week, because of NT. Do you think it would work to simply not tighten

> the lids? Just put them on, but not twist them closed? Or would that

> not let it ferment properly?

> Carol

I am using the canning jars that you describe, Carol, in quart sizes.

It is fine to put the lid on and loosen the ring. At least it works for me.

I am interested in finding some of the other style jars that Heidi wrote

about as well. I'll search the MN files first, maybe there's a document

on fermentation vessels.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>Heidi Jean<<

>

>~~~I cannot get plastic lids or any other jars than what I have, which are Ball

Mason jars with the lids and rings, which I just bought last week, because of

NT. Do you think it would work to simply not tighten the lids? Just put them

on, but not twist them closed? Or would that not let it ferment properly?

>Carol

I've done that, and it works unless the lids get " stuck " for some reason. Well,

if they get stuck they will still unstick if there is pressure, but they

are a pain to get off when you want to eat the kimchi.

The kimchi will ferment regardless, though it's better to not OPEN

the lids for a couple of days so the CO2 stays put and inhibits

mold. CO2 is heavier than air, so it kinda sits there unless disturbed.

The danger is mainly 1) Explosions vs. 2) Flies getting in. Little

" vinegar flies " in your kimchi are GROSS!!! Not toxic though.

Anything covering the top that more or less keeps stuff out

will work though. Loose lids are fine, I think.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

If you are worried about pressure, just put plastic wrap over the top, sealed

with a rubber band. The plastic just raises up to meet the pressure, and you can

release it now and then. I do this with my kefir and such.

Blessings,

-Angel

Kirkland Washington

425-522-4046

I ferment my water kefir in a mason jar with the metal band and lid screwed

tight and release pressure from time to time.

[Guest guest]

I ferment my water kefir in a mason jar with the metal band and lid screwed

tight and release pressure from time to time.

I forgot to do this once and the metal lid just started kinking and deforming

upward until it leaked. I am not recommending that anyone do this for any

reason, but I just thought I would mention that it seems that the canning lids

may be designed to fail under pressure to prevent explosion.

Please pardon my speculatory tendencies.

Beau

Re: Fermented Veggies

>Even with straight salt, the pressure increases and needs

>an escape route through the lid. Has anyone had any unpleasant

>explosions with jars?

[Guest guest]

I made a batch of sauerkraut Saturday and checked it today and the stuff smells

like ammonia. IT's quite disappointing. Anyone know what would have caused it to

go bad?

Phil

[Guest guest]

I too had GERD and was treated with mega doses of these anti-acid drugs for many

years. In the end they were not helping me at all .... I gave then up and took

Aloe Vera juice and it worked great for me. Haven't taken the Aloe in over a

year too now and since being on Bee's Program I don't need anything and my

stomach feels GREAT. I do take sauerkraut with my lunch and dinner.

Best of luck ......

Maddy

Bee <beeisbuzzing2003@...> wrote:

>

> Hello everybody,

>

> I am new to the group, and have been working on getting my candida

under control for the past several months, under the direction of a

local homeopath (it was he who first suggested I had a problem).

==>Hi andra. Welcome to our wonderful group!

>

> I am considering making additional changes to my diet as per Bee's

recommendations, but I am worried about 2 things:

>

> 1) I also have GERD, and have been taking medication for this for

6 or so years. I have tried to go off it but I don't even last 24

hours without feeling absolutely miserable and unable to eat

anything. Some of the veggies recommended in the diet are things my

homeopath recommended I stay away from, as they are acid-producing,

such as cucumbers.

==>There is a lot of misunderstanding about why people have GERD,

with doctors, naturopaths and others thinking it is caused by high

acid, when the opposite is true. It is easy to thing that way since

both high acid and low acid cause exactly the same symptoms.

==>However, the cause of GERD is actually low stomach acid. In order

for the valve to the esophagus to stay closed there must be enough

stomach acid. Also when the stomach doesn't produce enough acid it

also isn't producing enough bicarbonate of soda which is needed to

protect the lining of the stomach from being damaged by the acid.

==>Candida in the stomach and the toxins it produces lowers stomach

acid, so all candida sufferers must supplement with Betaine

hydrochloric acid and/or eat enough good sauerkraut each meal.

Sauerkraut is one of nature's miracle foods, because it raises

stomach acid when it is too low, and it lowers acid when it is too

high.

==>The reason you can't get off GERD drugs is because your body kicks

back after withdrawing them with very very high acid. I've known a

number of people who got off the drugs by eating sauerkraut every

time their stomach hurt. I did too, and I had to take sauerkraut

with me where ever I went, in the car, to work, visiting, shopping,

etc. but it worked. It takes a good 3 weeks.

>

> I read a lot of the articles and understand the whole GERD thing

can be caused by the candida, but the thing is, yeasts also grow in

acid, and I'm worried I'm stuck in a catch-22 here with this

medication! I really want to get off it (my MD has sworn up and down

I will be on it for the rest of my life, but I'm still in my 20s).

==>Yeast actually grows in an alkaline environment in the

intestines. The intestines must be alkaline and that's why the

pancreas and liver pour bicarbonate of soda into the duodenal area in

order to alkalize the food for it continued digestion through the

small and large intestines.

==>Many people thinks it is acidity, when it is actually toxicity

that is happening when you have candida. You must have high stomach

acid for digestion, yet it won't make candida grow more. In fact acid

kills a lot of bugs, and lack of it causes things like ulcers from H.

pylori bacteria, etc. Acidity & akalinity (pH) balancing are a non-

issue when it comes to health as explained in these articles:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu5_1.php

>

> 2) The diet also recommends fermented veggies. But doesn't

fermented mean there is yeast action going on there? Wouldn't that

cause problems?? I'm feeling confused and it would be great to get

some clarity.

==>No, fermentation is not the same as yeasty, moldy, fungi-type

foods and they do not contain them. See this article about fermented

foods; http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/foods28.php

>

> Thanks so much in advance for all your input. It was a real

godsend finding this group and realizing I wasn't alone!

==>That's great you found us! You have lots of friends and support

here my friend!

The best in health, Bee

[Guest guest]

==>There is a lot of misunderstanding about why people have GERD,

with doctors, naturopaths and others thinking it is caused by high

acid, when the opposite is true. It is easy to thing that way since

both high acid and low acid cause exactly the same symptoms.

That is wild!  How ever do we sort them out!!

==>The reason you can't get off GERD drugs is because your body kicks

back after withdrawing them with very very high acid. I've known a

number of people who got off the drugs by eating sauerkraut every

time their stomach hurt. I did too, and I had to take sauerkraut

with me where ever I went, in the car, to work, visiting, shopping,

etc. but it worked. It takes a good 3 weeks.

So basically, I would start eating the sauerkraut simultaneously with stopping

taking the drugs?

==>No, fermentation is not the same as yeasty, moldy, fungi-type

foods and they do not contain them. See this article about fermented

foods; http://www.healingn aturallybybee. com/articles/ foods28.php

Very interesting link.. to start with though I am nervous about making my own

(though I know this is preferable to store-bought).  Are there any

recommendations on decent stuff I could buy in the interim?

==>That's great you found us! You have lots of friends and support

here my friend!

Thanks so much!  It's just a lot to sort out at first. 

andra

[Guest guest]

I wonder what GRED is? This must be an acronym that most people recognize.

Regards,

Jeanette

Start at the new 7 for a better online experience. www.7.com.au

[Guest guest]

GERD = Gastroesophogeal Reflux Disease

On 22-Jul-08, at 7:52 AM, Jeanette Fitzgerald wrote:

> I wonder what GRED is? This must be an acronym that most people

> recognize.

> Regards,

> Jeanette

>

> Start at the new 7 for a better online experience. www.7.com.au

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ==>There is a lot of misunderstanding about why people have GERD,

with doctors, naturopaths and others thinking it is caused by high

acid, when the opposite is true. It is easy to thing that way since

> both high acid and low acid cause exactly the same symptoms.

>

> That is wild!  How ever do we sort them out!!

==>Hi andra. Hopefully, one day we will have natural healers

instead of doctors, drugs, and others who are in it for the money

only! Money is okay if the main motivation and goals are

constructive and beneficial, and they are honest.

> ==>The reason you can't get off GERD drugs is because your body

kicks back after withdrawing them with very very high acid. I've

known a number of people who got off the drugs by eating sauerkraut

every time their stomach hurt. I did too, and I had to take

sauerkraut with me where ever I went, in the car, to work, visiting,

shopping, etc. but it worked. It takes a good 3 weeks.

> So basically, I would start eating the sauerkraut simultaneously

with stopping taking the drugs?

==>Yes, that is correct.

> ==>No, fermentation is not the same as yeasty, moldy, fungi-type

foods and they do not contain them. See this article about fermented

> foods; http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/foods28.php

> Very interesting link.. to start with though I am nervous about

making my own (though I know this is preferable to store-bought). 

Are there any recommendations on decent stuff I could buy in the

interim?

==>Yes, you can buy good unpasteurized sauerkraut from the fridge in

most health stores. Here in Canada there is Karthein's brand.

>

> ==>That's great you found us! You have lots of friends and support

here my friend!

>

> Thanks so much!  It's just a lot to sort out at first. 

==>It is a lot to sort out. Take one step at a time so it also gives

your body a chance to adjust to the changes.

The best in health, Bee

P.S. In future would you please trim your messages; search the

Message Archives above for the message posted every month: Trim Your

Messages. It will tell you how and why. Thanks a bunch!

[Guest guest]

Gastro-Esophageal Reflux Disease.

Zack

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008, Jeanette Fitzgerald wrote:

> I wonder what GRED is? This must be an acronym that most people recognize.

> Regards,

> Jeanette

>