Re: Fasting With Coconut Water (was Smoking & Health)

[Guest guest]

On 7/30/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Oh ginseng is fine during a fast.

Oh good. Because I'll be quitting coffee for the fast too, and that

should help.

> Most herbals are. It may even be in

> one of the formulas I recommended to you off list. I failed to

> recommend the formula for brain fog so I will shoot you an email about

> that. And fasting is great for the adrenals so you will be getting a

> double whammy. While herb teas and tinctures are okay, I would be

> cautious of any fractionated supplement while liquid fasting. I would

> wait to start eating before adding anything like that.

What do you consider a " fractionated " supplement? Cod liver oil? Or

only synthetics? Glutamine is widely celebrated as healing for the

gut, so I was thinking of including it. Maybe in the second week?

> And I would definitely stay away from any kind of protein supplement.

> If your body has to " work " to digest anything while liquid fasting, it

> will be a miserable fast because you will get hungry in the midst of

> it. One of the things that makes liquid fasting reasonable is that

> after a few days you really don't get hungry and if you do drinking

> liquids usually sends the hunger away.

Right, but the whole point of a *free form* amino acid supplement is

that it *doesn't* need to be digested, because the amino acids are not

bound in to proteins. So an amino acid supplement isn't a protein

supplement.

My thought was that, if I'm having trouble digesting protein or

utilizing it, during a " phase 2 " sort of part of my fast, this would

give me an opportunity to highly absorb and utilize small amounts of

amino acids supplemented and use them for, e.g., adrenal repair, etc.

I would use a large amount because on a low-calorie diet I might have

the tendency to use them as sugar.

Anyway, juice and coconut water both contain protein, which, I think,

the body would have to work *harder* to use than a free form amino

acid supplement. So is there any reason to think a *free form*, and

NOT protein, amino acid supplement would be counter-productive?

Some other questions:

Is it necessary to refrigerate young coconuts?

One of my coconuts has a very small patch of mold on the outside of

the white husk thing. Should I discard it, or assume the inside is

fine?

If I tap the coconuts and take out the water first, do I then need to

inspect the meat for mold between the meat and the " shell " (or

whatever's in there, I've never opened one) before I use it, and

discard it if I find some mold? Or should the water be fine either

way?

What distribution should I use for my consumption of coconut water.

Should I separate it into " meals, " or should I sip it all day long?

Thanks,

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/30/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 7/30/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> > Most herbals are. It may even be in

> > one of the formulas I recommended to you off list. I failed to

> > recommend the formula for brain fog so I will shoot you an email about

> > that. And fasting is great for the adrenals so you will be getting a

> > double whammy. While herb teas and tinctures are okay, I would be

> > cautious of any fractionated supplement while liquid fasting. I would

> > wait to start eating before adding anything like that.

>

> What do you consider a " fractionated " supplement? Cod liver oil? Or

> only synthetics? Glutamine is widely celebrated as healing for the

> gut, so I was thinking of including it. Maybe in the second week?

Basically synthetics. Things are accelerated during fasting and

effects magnified in a way they might not be when eating. I would

tread carefully. Personally I would wait until your eating food again.

The digestive rest alone will help with gut healing, as will the

coconut water, as will some of the various herbs. You might want to

add a little juiced ginger to your coconut water as well.

> > And I would definitely stay away from any kind of protein supplement.

> > If your body has to " work " to digest anything while liquid fasting, it

> > will be a miserable fast because you will get hungry in the midst of

> > it. One of the things that makes liquid fasting reasonable is that

> > after a few days you really don't get hungry and if you do drinking

> > liquids usually sends the hunger away.

>

> Right, but the whole point of a *free form* amino acid supplement is

> that it *doesn't* need to be digested, because the amino acids are not

> bound in to proteins. So an amino acid supplement isn't a protein

> supplement.

I thought you were considering Goatein during the fast?

> My thought was that, if I'm having trouble digesting protein or

> utilizing it, during a " phase 2 " sort of part of my fast, this would

> give me an opportunity to highly absorb and utilize small amounts of

> amino acids supplemented and use them for, e.g., adrenal repair, etc.

> I would use a large amount because on a low-calorie diet I might have

> the tendency to use them as sugar.

Your body will begin healing and repairing whatever ails you whether

or not you supplement in a fast. This is true regardless of the kind

of liquid fast you adopt, even water. It also spares protein and

reduces your protein needs dramatically.

But you can always try it and see what happens.

> Anyway, juice and coconut water both contain protein, which, I think,

> the body would have to work *harder* to use than a free form amino

> acid supplement. So is there any reason to think a *free form*, and

> NOT protein, amino acid supplement would be counter-productive?

Well you can always try it and see what happens.

>

> Some other questions:

>

> Is it necessary to refrigerate young coconuts?

I do. I'm not sure its necessary.

>

> One of my coconuts has a very small patch of mold on the outside of

> the white husk thing. Should I discard it, or assume the inside is

> fine?

Open it. If the flesh has turned color toss it. If not, drink away.

> If I tap the coconuts and take out the water first, do I then need to

> inspect the meat for mold between the meat and the " shell " (or

> whatever's in there, I've never opened one) before I use it, and

> discard it if I find some mold? Or should the water be fine either

> way?

If the water is fine, the meat if fine. If the meat has gone bad, you

will be able to tell by the taste of the water.

> What distribution should I use for my consumption of coconut water.

> Should I separate it into " meals, " or should I sip it all day long?

Anytime I have done liquids fasts I simply drink all day long. The

main thing is to make sure you get enough liquids - at least a gallon

a day. There are some proscribed schedules, but I don't think it

matters in your type of fast.

Some caveats:

1. Most writers on fasting recommend no longer than ten days if you

don't have supervision from someone experienced in fasting.

2. Some conditions are contraindicted for fasting or need to be

handled very judiciously, like previous drug use. Since you mentioned

that you had smoked *laced* marijuana, it is entirely possible that

some of that lacing compound is still in your tissues and may be

released as a result of fasting.

3. Symptoms of old problems can and do reappear. It usually takes a

longer fast for that to happen but not always. It happened to me early

on when I did my first fast. So excema might show up again, or a rapid

heart rate, or whatever issues you have had in the past. They will go

away fairly quickly but if you don't know what to expect it can be

unnerving.

4. I think you said your first three days will be mostly coco water.

Don't expect that to be easy, especially since you appear to be a fast

metabolizer. I would *lightly* exercise during this period but don't

overdo it.

5. Breaking the fast, as you now know, is crucial. Slow is the

watchword. I will post a sample way to break the fast later.

6. From my perspective, one I know you share, the time you would

normally spend eating should be spent in prayer. And please remember

me while doing so, I need all the help I can get.

Hope this helps,

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I thought you were considering Goatein during the fast?

Oh I was, but I decided against it when reminded me that it was

high in casein. I don't know if goat casein is a problem, but I think

that including other dairies, besides ghee, will be one of the last

things I reincorporate into my diet after the fast is over.

> > If I tap the coconuts and take out the water first, do I then need to

> > inspect the meat for mold between the meat and the " shell " (or

> > whatever's in there, I've never opened one) before I use it, and

> > discard it if I find some mold? Or should the water be fine either

> > way?

> If the water is fine, the meat if fine. If the meat has gone bad, you

> will be able to tell by the taste of the water.

Ok, but considering that I've never had young coconut water and am not

sure what to expect, and am also planning on, hopefully, fermenting

it, what if I don't notice a bad taste to the water, but I DO find

mold in the flesh? Should I drink the water regardless if I don't

mind the taste, or is the mold dangerous enough that I should be on

the safe side and discard the water if I find any mold in the coconut?

> 1. Most writers on fasting recommend no longer than ten days if you

> don't have supervision from someone experienced in fasting.

Well I think I should be ok because I'm home all day, being

unemployed. Or, self-employed as I like to think of it. So if

there's anything really intense I can break it with something gentle,

I guess, but I won't be out and about too much, so I think I'll be

comfortable. Also, I was thinking that as it progresses I would

include a few things, including coconut oil or milk that might ease

the intensity.

Do you think that's safe?

Thanks for your other advice. I'll keep you in my prayers, which I

should be doing more of anyway. Do the same for me please.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/30/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Ok, but considering that I've never had young coconut water and am not

> sure what to expect, and am also planning on, hopefully, fermenting

> it, what if I don't notice a bad taste to the water, but I DO find

> mold in the flesh? Should I drink the water regardless if I don't

> mind the taste, or is the mold dangerous enough that I should be on

> the safe side and discard the water if I find any mold in the coconut?

I think you will be able to tell, the water is not sweet and tastes a

little off, maybe even discolored. But if you can't tell the flesh is

usually bad when it is not white, like yellow or purple. Someone said

awhile back that yellow is okay but purple you toss (actually take

back to the store for a replacement *especially* at the prices you are

paying.) Me, I would return them both. So no, I wouldn't drink the

water if there is mold inside the coco cavity.

> > 1. Most writers on fasting recommend no longer than ten days if you

> > don't have supervision from someone experienced in fasting.

>

> Well I think I should be ok because I'm home all day, being

> unemployed. Or, self-employed as I like to think of it. So if

> there's anything really intense I can break it with something gentle,

> I guess, but I won't be out and about too much, so I think I'll be

> comfortable. Also, I was thinking that as it progresses I would

> include a few things, including coconut oil or milk that might ease

> the intensity.

>

> Do you think that's safe?

Absolutely. In fact given what I now know now about some of your

history, a coconut milk fast would have been just what the doctor

ordered. But I don't know any good milk that is readily available.

> Thanks for your other advice. I'll keep you in my prayers, which I

> should be doing more of anyway. Do the same for me please.

Will do.

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> > Well I think I should be ok because I'm home all day, being

> > unemployed. Or, self-employed as I like to think of it. So if

> > there's anything really intense I can break it with something gentle,

> > I guess, but I won't be out and about too much, so I think I'll be

> > comfortable. Also, I was thinking that as it progresses I would

> > include a few things, including coconut oil or milk that might ease

> > the intensity.

> >

> > Do you think that's safe?

>

> Absolutely. In fact given what I now know now about some of your

> history, a coconut milk fast would have been just what the doctor

> ordered. But I don't know any good milk that is readily available.

Well what I'll do is after a few days or in the second week I'll start

consuming the juiced coconut meat, probably mixing the " coco cream "

with the coconut water.

In the past, canned coconut milk has giving me rumbling in my gut, but

I'm hoping that that's just becuase of the guar gum and whatever other

crap is in it.

I've noticed that I react poorly to carageenan and the gum stuff.

Chris

[Guest guest]

-

>And please remember

>me while doing so, I need all the help I can get.

This sounds alarming. Is all not well with you?

-

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> -

>

> >And please remember

> >me while doing so, I need all the help I can get.

>

> This sounds alarming. Is all not well with you?

No no nothing to be alarmed about, I am just expressing a common

Orthodox sentiment. Thanks for asking though.

[Guest guest]

> Well what I'll do is after a few days or in the second week I'll

start

> consuming the juiced coconut meat, probably mixing the " coco cream "

> with the coconut water.

Honestly, I see no reason to juice the young coconut flesh. It's

so...flimsy, already. You'll see when you bust one open.

I inquired at the raw food co-op in LA and the coconut cream there is

made from mature coconuts.

B.