Re: Fasting With Coconut Water -- NOT!

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> On 7/30/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

>

> > Ok, but considering that I've never had young coconut water and am not

> > sure what to expect, and am also planning on, hopefully, fermenting

> > it, what if I don't notice a bad taste to the water, but I DO find

> > mold in the flesh? Should I drink the water regardless if I don't

> > mind the taste, or is the mold dangerous enough that I should be on

> > the safe side and discard the water if I find any mold in the coconut?

>

> I think you will be able to tell, the water is not sweet and tastes a

> little off, maybe even discolored. But if you can't tell the flesh is

> usually bad when it is not white, like yellow or purple. Someone said

> awhile back that yellow is okay but purple you toss (actually take

> back to the store for a replacement *especially* at the prices you are

> paying.) Me, I would return them both. So no, I wouldn't drink the

> water if there is mold inside the coco cavity.

Well I don't see anything that looks like mold, but every single one

of the four coconuts I've opened so far (I have five left to open but

might as well give up at this point) has had very dark purple flesh.

The part of the flesh adjascent to the shell has been white and only

the surface adjascent to the water is purple. The flesh is rather

mushy and seems to lack any integrity.

So it looks like I won't be doing a coconut water fast. This is worse

than my experience with mature coconuts, where about one in three are

moldy. *sigh*.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Well I don't see anything that looks like mold, but every single one

>of the four coconuts I've opened so far (I have five left to open but

>might as well give up at this point) has had very dark purple flesh.

>The part of the flesh adjascent to the shell has been white and only

>the surface adjascent to the water is purple. The flesh is rather

>mushy and seems to lack any integrity.

>

>So it looks like I won't be doing a coconut water fast. This is worse

>than my experience with mature coconuts, where about one in three are

>moldy. *sigh*.

>

>Chris

>

>

Is the water clear, or pinkish?

Steph

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Steph <flybabysteph@...> wrote:

> Is the water clear, or pinkish?

Neither, it seems cloudy and brownish. One jar seems a little more

brown, and the other seems more golden-tan, both being somewhat

translucent but probably closer to opaque than translucent.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>-----Original Message-----

>From:

>[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Masterjohn

>

>

>On 7/31/05, Steph <flybabysteph@...> wrote:

>

>> Is the water clear, or pinkish?

>

>Neither, it seems cloudy and brownish. One jar seems a little more

>brown, and the other seems more golden-tan, both being somewhat

>translucent but probably closer to opaque than translucent.

>

>Chris

*Definitely* get your money back! :-(

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote:

> >Neither, it seems cloudy and brownish. One jar seems a little more

> >brown, and the other seems more golden-tan, both being somewhat

> >translucent but probably closer to opaque than translucent.

> >

> >Chris

>

> *Definitely* get your money back! :-(

Yeah, this really doesn't surprise me very much, although it's rather

depressing. I don't understand how anyone can tolerate buying fresh

coconuts. I have bought so many moldy coconuts in the past too.

I really don't think I'll buy coconuts again, at least not for a very long time.

Funny thing is that I ordered $75 or so worth of young coconuts from

WF that are supposed to come in tomorrow or soon after. I guess

they'll be stuck with them!

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Funny thing is that I ordered $75 or so worth of young coconuts from

> WF that are supposed to come in tomorrow or soon after. I guess

> they'll be stuck with them!

I *suspect* the new cases you ordered will be in better condition than

what you bought off the floor. It sounds like they had a case

sitting, moldering in the back room for a few weeks. Plus, if you

didn't refrigerate when you got home and left them out in the heat, it

would have accelerated the process.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Well I don't see anything that looks like mold, but every single one

> of the four coconuts I've opened so far (I have five left to open but

> might as well give up at this point) has had very dark purple flesh.

> The part of the flesh adjascent to the shell has been white and only

> the surface adjascent to the water is purple. The flesh is rather

> mushy and seems to lack any integrity.

>

> So it looks like I won't be doing a coconut water fast. This is worse

> than my experience with mature coconuts, where about one in three are

> moldy. *sigh*.

That is to bad. I had the same experience with mature coconuts. I have

had a much better experience with young coconuts. I don't know the

volume at the store you bought them at but I had very little trouble

at the store I buy mine from. Whole Foods had a couple of bad ones but

they promptly replaced them. But with Central Market, where I get them

for .85 a piece, rarely a problem.

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

>

> I *suspect* the new cases you ordered will be in better condition than

> what you bought off the floor. It sounds like they had a case

> sitting, moldering in the back room for a few weeks. Plus, if you

> didn't refrigerate when you got home and left them out in the heat, it

> would have accelerated the process.

> B.

Yes, Central Market keeps their young coconuts in the back cooler. The

water is very refreshing cold.

[Guest guest]

I opened another coconut, and the flesh was white. To make sure I

wasn't seeing things before, I looked at all the other coconuts I

opened and three of four looked very purple and totally different from

this one, and another looked kind of in between and was hard to judge.

So I saved the water. The water is *definitely* not pink, but it is

also definitely not clear. It looks kind of subtly brownish in the

evening kitchen light, but if I put a flashlight up to it it looks

sort of cloudy white. I tasted it, and it seemd very sweet but with a

tangy bite to it.

Of the remaining unopened coconuts, one has some mold on the outside

and the others look good, only a different one has little tiny brown

bumps all over the sides. Does anyone know what this could be and

whether I should bother about it?

Anyway, I was just going to return the whole case without opening the

last five, but I figured I'd check to see. Part of me wants to not

trust any of the coconuts because the first four in a row were so

gross. Another part says if the individual coconut looks good, use

it. Any thoughts?

Oh, one last thing. The coconut that I just opened that looks good

has a small dark spot in the flesh at the very bottom, but it looks

like this is just the shell shining through because the meat is thin

in that area. The bottom of it also feels a little soft in that area.

Is this a reason for me not to use it, or should I go ahead since the

flesh is otherwise very white?

I think I may have reacted with a little itchiness in my mouth when I

took a sip, but it seems like I have been reacting as if I had a milld

allergy of some sort to nearly everything I eat the last few days so

I'm not sure if it really means anything.

I'm going to ferment the coconut water tonight by adding fresh ginger

and lemon juice, some Primal Defense, and letting it sit at room temp

overnight.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

>Anyway, I was just going to return the whole case without opening the

>last five, but I figured I'd check to see. Part of me wants to not

>trust any of the coconuts because the first four in a row were so

>gross. Another part says if the individual coconut looks good, use

>it. Any thoughts?

>

>Oh, one last thing. The coconut that I just opened that looks good

>has a small dark spot in the flesh at the very bottom, but it looks

>like this is just the shell shining through because the meat is thin

>in that area. The bottom of it also feels a little soft in that area.

> Is this a reason for me not to use it, or should I go ahead since the

>flesh is otherwise very white?

>

>I think I may have reacted with a little itchiness in my mouth when I

>took a sip, but it seems like I have been reacting as if I had a milld

>allergy of some sort to nearly everything I eat the last few days so

>I'm not sure if it really means anything.

>

>I'm going to ferment the coconut water tonight by adding fresh ginger

>and lemon juice, some Primal Defense, and letting it sit at room temp

>overnight.

>

I think that coconuts are foods of commerce for those of us at least 1/4

of a world away from where they are grown. VCO is a viable option that

is not so problematic in terms of freshness on shipment, especially when

considering living on this food during times of fasting, as you are

attempting.

Why not fast on water? Or better yet, if lifestyle changes are needed,

i.e. nicotine and caffeine removal, then abstain from these and support

your diet accordingly. Are you still warrior dieting? Again, if you

need to become healthier, then adopt healthier habits for your life.

Anything less than this is like bingeing and purging and is not

indicative of good health. Fasting and then eating, smoking (with toxic

concrete filled lungs) and junkifying your body is not the way to go,

especially for one who is: 1) in poor health to begin with, and 2) a

high metabolizer who will undoubtedly lose muscle as a result of

fasting. Are you trying to build muscle? What are your goals? Perhaps

you should think about what you want out of this project before you

decide: 1) what it even is, and 2) what you want long term from it.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> I think that coconuts are foods of commerce for those of us at least 1/4

> of a world away from where they are grown. VCO is a viable option that

> is not so problematic in terms of freshness on shipment, especially when

> considering living on this food during times of fasting, as you are

> attempting.

That's true, but coconut water, especially fermented, has a reputation

for being able to heal the gut. I believe it will also penetrate

through the intestines more with its healing properties and minerals,

since I believe MCTs are absorbed early on. Additionally, trying a

different fast would allow me to compare the effects of the two.

> Why not fast on water?

I could, but I suspect that would be much harder, and , the

resident expert on fasting, has posted information that non-water

liquid fasting offers comparable benefits with less danger.

> Or better yet, if lifestyle changes are needed,

> i.e. nicotine and caffeine removal, then abstain from these and support

> your diet accordingly.

Well sure I could do that, but I don't see how it would accomplish the

goals I'm trying to accomplish efficiently, especially since caffeine

removal has proved very problematic. (Although I pickedup some Korean

ginseng today and will try it tomorrow. I noticed that all of the

other ginsengs except this one imported box hiding on the bottom shelf

was a different form and not Korean.)

> Are you still warrior dieting?

No, I have been trying s' _Mastering Leptin_ suggestions as

supplied by , and eating two meals a day, spaced a minimum of five

hours apart and three or four hours before bed, and exercising a

minimum of three hours after eating. I have combined this with

low-carb and have lost about 7 or 8 pounds over a week or so, which,

if the Tanita scale is accurate (highly questionable) has resulted in

a major reduction in body fat.

> Again, if you

> need to become healthier, then adopt healthier habits for your life.

Obviously, but I think my habits are dramatically healthier than the

average persons, and to adapt healthy habits isn't simple enough. My

diet is nutrient dense and contains very little in the way of refined

foods, except occasional filler snacks, and I exercise frequently.

The major drawback to my health that I can control is my coffee

consumption, but this was a reaction to my concrete job, which was

more or less beyond my control. Other problems, like digestive

disorders, quite clearly call for dramatic measures, whether that is

fasting, GFCF, SCD, or some combination thereof.

> Anything less than this is like bingeing and purging and is not

> indicative of good health.

I did this last time, but as I have said, it is my plan this time,

more wiser from the last experience, to very methodically and slowly

add foods back in, and carefully test them.

> Fasting and then eating, smoking (with toxic

> concrete filled lungs) and junkifying your body is not the way to go,

> especially for one who is: 1) in poor health to begin with, and 2) a

> high metabolizer who will undoubtedly lose muscle as a result of

> fasting.

I will probably lose muscle, but I suspect that I will build it more

efficiently after fasting if my digestive problems are helped, and I

will probably lose more fat anyway. Fasting induces ketosis, which

spares muscle, and if I feel like I am muscle-wasting at some point, I

can add in some coconut oil, which is ketogenic in itself independent

of carb-restriction or calorie-restriction, so should have an additive

effect and help preserve muscle, and could also include l-glutamine,

which would advance gut healing and also help preserve muscle mass.

> Are you trying to build muscle?

That has been a major goal of mine, but I'm realizing now that it was

heavily misprioritized because I should have fixed my digestive issues

first, and eating large amounts of food to build muscle is worsening

my digestive problems, not helping them.

Also, now that it is summer and time to take my shirt off, it would be

better for my body image to be able to ail gut damage and inflammation

and thereby flatten my stomach rather than build muscle, even at the

expense of some muscle.

> What are your goals? Perhaps

> you should think about what you want out of this project before you

> decide: 1) what it even is, and 2) what you want long term from it.

I'm hoping to jump-start detoxification, which I think is probably

considerably inhibited by the amount of food I need to eat to build

muscle, and help heal my gut issues. I would also like a clean basis

from which to add foods one at a time to test them out for my health.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>>Anything less than this is like bingeing and purging and is not

>>indicative of good health.

>>

>>

>

>I did this last time, but as I have said, it is my plan this time,

>more wiser from the last experience, to very methodically and slowly

>add foods back in, and carefully test them.

>

>

Yes, if that is what happened and your see from that experience, then

you will know better this time.

>That has been a major goal of mine, but I'm realizing now that it was

>heavily misprioritized because I should have fixed my digestive issues

>first, and eating large amounts of food to build muscle is worsening

>my digestive problems, not helping them.

>

>

You are becoming wise, my friend. I am so happy to see you prioritize

and seek ways to get well, however that may be for you. We are all so

different, that it is difficult to always see an easy path. You see

that interior health must come first. I don't know all of the

particulars here, but I am sure you have a good handle on your

situation, and I am hopeful for you. Good health be yours!

>I'm hoping to jump-start detoxification, which I think is probably

>considerably inhibited by the amount of food I need to eat to build

>muscle, and help heal my gut issues. I would also like a clean basis

>from which to add foods one at a time to test them out for my health.

>

Ah, good goals and an honest starting assessment. You get an A+,

heeeeeeeee heeeeeeeee ha ham, just joking. But I think you have really

specified plainly your plans and goals, better than I understood them

before. :-)

Do follow any guidance you receive as to the nature of your fast. Some

may not be into the spiritual, but sometimes we can be called for a

certain kind of fast. May you find it. Be well.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 7/31/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

>

> > I think that coconuts are foods of commerce for those of us at least 1/4

> > of a world away from where they are grown. VCO is a viable option that

> > is not so problematic in terms of freshness on shipment, especially when

> > considering living on this food during times of fasting, as you are

> > attempting.

>

> That's true, but coconut water, especially fermented, has a reputation

> for being able to heal the gut. I believe it will also penetrate

> through the intestines more with its healing properties and minerals,

> since I believe MCTs are absorbed early on. Additionally, trying a

> different fast would allow me to compare the effects of the two.

I read on WFN's site about kefiring coconut water and the benefits,

but they don't cite any sources. Do you have any?

> > Why not fast on water?

>

> I could, but I suspect that would be much harder, and , the

> resident expert on fasting, has posted information that non-water

> liquid fasting offers comparable benefits with less danger.

Just to be clear though, you should drink lots of water, just not

only water. I think a gallon of coconut water each day would be quite

spendy.

I'm not sure I would characterize water fasting as dangerous per se,

but for most of us it is certainly harder.

> > Or better yet, if lifestyle changes are needed,

> > i.e. nicotine and caffeine removal, then abstain from these and support

> > your diet accordingly.

>

> Well sure I could do that, but I don't see how it would accomplish the

> goals I'm trying to accomplish efficiently, especially since caffeine

> removal has proved very problematic. (Although I pickedup some Korean

> ginseng today and will try it tomorrow. I noticed that all of the

> other ginsengs except this one imported box hiding on the bottom shelf

> was a different form and not Korean.)

Unfortunately, from my experience, buying good ginseng at retail is

problematic. These guys are a great source of quality herbs:

http://www.pacificbotanicals.com/

> > Are you still warrior dieting?

>

> No, I have been trying s' _Mastering Leptin_ suggestions as

> supplied by , and eating two meals a day, spaced a minimum of five

> hours apart and three or four hours before bed, and exercising a

> minimum of three hours after eating. I have combined this with

> low-carb and have lost about 7 or 8 pounds over a week or so, which,

> if the Tanita scale is accurate (highly questionable) has resulted in

> a major reduction in body fat.

I think I might adjust my warrior dieting as well if I should find in

the future that a big meal at night...ummm...interferes with other

activity ;-)

But frankly I like going all day without worrying about a meal. It

does increase productivity

> I will probably lose muscle, but I suspect that I will build it more

> efficiently after fasting if my digestive problems are helped, and I

> will probably lose more fat anyway. Fasting induces ketosis, which

> spares muscle, and if I feel like I am muscle-wasting at some point, I

> can add in some coconut oil, which is ketogenic in itself independent

> of carb-restriction or calorie-restriction, so should have an additive

> effect and help preserve muscle, and could also include l-glutamine,

> which would advance gut healing and also help preserve muscle mass.

Well said. Some exercise helps to (in maintaining muscle while

fasting), but in your case I would go easy, leaving as much " energy "

for healing as possible.

> Also, now that it is summer and time to take my shirt off, it would be

> better for my body image to be able to ail gut damage and inflammation

> and thereby flatten my stomach rather than build muscle, even at the

> expense of some muscle.

My brother and me have this philosophy that if the stomach isn't flat

the rest of it doesn't matter.

So maybe this year, while the women have their annual (?) butt contest

at the conference, the men could have a stomach contest. We could all

go to the pool and have the women judge the men and the men judge the

women...HA!...right...as if that will ever happen, the men judging the

women that is. Or could it? LOL!

[Guest guest]

On 8/1/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I read on WFN's site about kefiring coconut water and the benefits,

> but they don't cite any sources. Do you have any?

No controlled studies, but at a Donna Gates lecture she said that this

is the first food she treats autistic and gut-damaged babies with.

She puts them on a kefired coconut water fast, and then gradually

introduces other foods as healing takes place, I think butter is next

because of its healing effect on the gut, but she finds that some

healing needs to take place first before butter is tolerated.

Her logic, as I understand it, was pretty simple: kefiring the coconut

water reduces the sugar content and adds probiotics, making it less

likely to feed pathogenic organisms and helping to supply friendly

organisms.

> Just to be clear though, you should drink lots of water, just not

> only water. I think a gallon of coconut water each day would be quite

> spendy.

Right... I figured a quart or two of coconut water depending on

finances in part but also what I find necessary to feel well, and then

the balance in water or probably better to do lemon water.

> Unfortunately, from my experience, buying good ginseng at retail is

> problematic. These guys are a great source of quality herbs:

> http://www.pacificbotanicals.com/

Thanks for the link, although I still needed to do retail so I could

get it in time, as I'm not going to drink coffee during my fast.

> I think I might adjust my warrior dieting as well if I should find in

> the future that a big meal at night...ummm...interferes with other

> activity ;-)

I can imagine it would...

> But frankly I like going all day without worrying about a meal. It

> does increase productivity

Me too, but I also find that preparing a fat-dominated raw food based

around a smoothie in the morning can be quite easy, and in a way it

reduces time during the day since I don't graze on anything else when

needed.

In any case, after a while on it I will be able to see what works better for me.

> My brother and me have this philosophy that if the stomach isn't flat

> the rest of it doesn't matter.

Oh, you have a brother? First I've heard, so far.

> So maybe this year, while the women have their annual (?) butt contest

> at the conference, the men could have a stomach contest. We could all

> go to the pool and have the women judge the men and the men judge the

> women...HA!...right...as if that will ever happen, the men judging the

> women that is. Or could it? LOL!

Well I can easily hide my gut problems by clenching my abdominal

muscles together, which makes me look like I have a ripped, muscular

six-pack. But if I relax them completely, I look like a flat slob, or

a pregnant man.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Her logic, as I understand it, was pretty simple: kefiring the coconut

> water reduces the sugar content and adds probiotics, making it less

> likely to feed pathogenic organisms and helping to supply friendly

> organisms.

Interesting. I find it difficult to get my head around any coconut

product feeding pathogenic organisms, even with the sugar content, but

if it has worked....

> > Just to be clear though, you should drink lots of water, just not

> > only water. I think a gallon of coconut water each day would be quite

> > spendy.

>

> Right... I figured a quart or two of coconut water depending on

> finances in part but also what I find necessary to feel well, and then

> the balance in water or probably better to do lemon water.

Yes I should have mentioned that. Lemon water would be good.

> > But frankly I like going all day without worrying about a meal. It

> > does increase productivity

>

> Me too, but I also find that preparing a fat-dominated raw food based

> around a smoothie in the morning can be quite easy, and in a way it

> reduces time during the day since I don't graze on anything else when

> needed.

Hmmm...yeah I used to do that. It was quick and filling but for some

reason it made me sleepy. Perhaps the eggs?

> In any case, after a while on it I will be able to see what works better for

me.

>

> > My brother and me have this philosophy that if the stomach isn't flat

> > the rest of it doesn't matter.

>

> Oh, you have a brother? First I've heard, so far.

I'm the oldest of five, 3 sisters and 1 brother.

[Guest guest]

On 8/1/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Interesting. I find it difficult to get my head around any coconut

> product feeding pathogenic organisms, even with the sugar content, but

> if it has worked....

I don't know, I just assumed it would be better fermented than fresh,

although I figured fresh would be good. What I did is juice a large

and a medium ginger root, which yielded a few tablespoons of juice,

and then I squeezed four lemons into the same jar and shook it up,

which I'm using as my " starter " sort of. I think the ginger has

indigenous lactobacilli that are cultured in ginger ale/beer, and I

figure the acidity of the lemon will help prevent pathogenic organisms

from taking over. I put in two primal defense, and I'm not sure what

that will do.

Anway, I put a half cup of the lemon-ginger juice into a quart of the

coconut water. That should ensure a safe over-night ferment, right?

> Hmmm...yeah I used to do that. It was quick and filling but for some

> reason it made me sleepy. Perhaps the eggs?

I don't know. I only use yolks. The only thing that *really* makes

me sleepy in the day is chicken soup.

> I'm the oldest of five, 3 sisters and 1 brother.

Oh, sisters too! I'm an only child, so it seems like a big family to

me, although my mother has seven siblings. Are they...? Oh,

nevermind...

:-)

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 8/1/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

> > Interesting. I find it difficult to get my head around any coconut

> > product feeding pathogenic organisms, even with the sugar content, but

> > if it has worked....

>

> I don't know, I just assumed it would be better fermented than fresh,

> although I figured fresh would be good. What I did is juice a large

> and a medium ginger root, which yielded a few tablespoons of juice,

> and then I squeezed four lemons into the same jar and shook it up,

> which I'm using as my " starter " sort of. I think the ginger has

> indigenous lactobacilli that are cultured in ginger ale/beer, and I

> figure the acidity of the lemon will help prevent pathogenic organisms

> from taking over. I put in two primal defense, and I'm not sure what

> that will do.

Make it taste nasty?, LOL!

> Anway, I put a half cup of the lemon-ginger juice into a quart of the

> coconut water. That should ensure a safe over-night ferment, right?

I think it should be okay.

> > I'm the oldest of five, 3 sisters and 1 brother.

>

> Oh, sisters too! I'm an only child, so it seems like a big family to

> me, although my mother has seven siblings. Are they...? Oh,

> nevermind...

My dad is the oldest of twelve. My mom from a family of six, though

two passed away at birth. My mom actually wanted more kids, my dad

said no. I think they both later regretted that. Had life gone the way

I had planned, I would have had lots of children myself, but that

opportunity has long passed. But I love kids, always have, always

will. And I love to entertain. And I love strong intellectual

conversation around good food, wine, even (gasp!) cigars, LOL!

I always wanted a big family, an active house, a place that was kind

of the center of the community. Ever read L'Abri? It is the story of

Schaeffer's parents. Something like what they did in Switzerland

but not so formal. Some of that could still come to pass. Only time

will tell.

As for my sisters, two of them are married, and the third would

consider you a little too young :-)

[Guest guest]

On 8/1/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> I put in two primal defense, and I'm not sure what

> that will do.

>

> Make it taste nasty?, LOL!

Excellent point. :-/

> My dad is the oldest of twelve. My mom from a family of six, though

> two passed away at birth. My mom actually wanted more kids, my dad

> said no.

Wow, that's an era that has passed!

> I think they both later regretted that. Had life gone the way

> I had planned, I would have had lots of children myself, but that

> opportunity has long passed. But I love kids, always have, always

> will. And I love to entertain. And I love strong intellectual

> conversation around good food, wine, even (gasp!) cigars, LOL!

Me too. I don't have any specific number in mind, but I definitely

want at least a few. Although I would like to be a little more

financially settled... but, on the other hand, my cousin who's less

than a year older than me just accidentally made a baby, married his

girlfriend for it, and moved back home where they're staying for free

in a log cabin on my aunt and uncles place that's technically owned by

my grandparents and was going to be a monastery but the plans fell

through... and they're doing fine. And the baby's cute! And so tiny!

Anyway, I think my biggest obstacle would be finding a mate who's got

the same idea about kids as me. Finding one with same interests etc

is bad enough, but how many girls out there want to eat a WAP-style

prenatal diet and breastfeed for three years, for example.

> I always wanted a big family, an active house, a place that was kind

> of the center of the community. Ever read L'Abri? It is the story of

> Schaeffer's parents. Something like what they did in Switzerland

> but not so formal. Some of that could still come to pass. Only time

> will tell.

No I haven't. But my family has by and large, until the last few

years, always followed each other around, so I had quite a bit of my

extended family all in one area when I was younger, so we were all

together in one big mass rather frequently, with my grandfather the

sort of patriarch of the family, and all the cousins all running

around the same house, etc.

> As for my sisters, two of them are married, and the third would

> consider you a little too young :-)

Damn. Couldn't hurt to, well, almost ask. :-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/31/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> > My dad is the oldest of twelve. My mom from a family of six, though

> > two passed away at birth. My mom actually wanted more kids, my dad

> > said no.

>

> Wow, that's an era that has passed!

Hmmm...I see you haven't been to any home school conventions lately, LOL!

> > I think they both later regretted that. Had life gone the way

> > I had planned, I would have had lots of children myself, but that

> > opportunity has long passed. But I love kids, always have, always

> > will. And I love to entertain. And I love strong intellectual

> > conversation around good food, wine, even (gasp!) cigars, LOL!

>

> Me too. I don't have any specific number in mind, but I definitely

> want at least a few. Although I would like to be a little more

> financially settled... but, on the other hand, my cousin who's less

> than a year older than me just accidentally made a baby, married his

> girlfriend for it, and moved back home where they're staying for free

> in a log cabin on my aunt and uncles place that's technically owned by

> my grandparents and was going to be a monastery but the plans fell

> through... and they're doing fine. And the baby's cute! And so tiny!

Yeah I have had lots of friends who simply went for it and didn't have

two dimes to rub together when they started out, but made it somehow,

prospered and had kids all along the way. And, most importantly, are

still together today.

> Anyway, I think my biggest obstacle would be finding a mate who's got

> the same idea about kids as me. Finding one with same interests etc

> is bad enough, but how many girls out there want to eat a WAP-style

> prenatal diet and breastfeed for three years, for example.

Oh you might be surprised. A guy who I am sort of corresponding with

told me how he found his wife. He is Orthodox, a libertarian, believes

in home birth (and from that I gather they are into some form of

eating well) and a computer geek. I will pass along his comments. You

might find it interesting.

> > I always wanted a big family, an active house, a place that was kind

> > of the center of the community. Ever read L'Abri? It is the story of

> > Schaeffer's parents. Something like what they did in Switzerland

> > but not so formal. Some of that could still come to pass. Only time

> > will tell.

>

> No I haven't. But my family has by and large, until the last few

> years, always followed each other around, so I had quite a bit of my

> extended family all in one area when I was younger, so we were all

> together in one big mass rather frequently, with my grandfather the

> sort of patriarch of the family, and all the cousins all running

> around the same house, etc.

Well the Schaeffer's had young people from all around the world stay

in their home at various times. Francis would lecture, people would

stay and eat, come and go as they please, etc. The intellectual impact

they (and I do mean they - both Francis and Edith) had on certain

aspects of the Protestant community was enormous, even to this day.

Although I'm sure they never contemplated their son would one day

become a very well known Orthodox convert.

> > As for my sisters, two of them are married, and the third would

> > consider you a little too young :-)

>

> Damn. Couldn't hurt to, well, almost ask. :-)

Most people never step out on a limb, cuz they don't realize the fruit

is always out on the limb.

Just a fancy way of saying, nothing ventured, nothing gained :-)

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Finding one with same interests etc

>is bad enough, but how many girls out there want to eat a WAP-style

>prenatal diet and breastfeed for three years, for example.

Two? Three? <g>

-

[Guest guest]

> Chris-

>

> >Finding one with same interests etc

> >is bad enough, but how many girls out there want to eat a WAP-style

> >prenatal diet and breastfeed for three years, for example.

>

> Two? Three? <g>

> -

So...it's tough on the guys, too?

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>So...it's tough on the guys, too?

How many women do you know who eat properly, believe in sufficient

breast-feeding, etc. etc. etc.?

Actually, I'd wager that among people like us, and those like him

will have an easier time, because these attitudes seem more available among

the very religious.

-