Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Have you got mercury fillings in there by any chance? Gum Disease > > > I have been diagnosed with severe gum disease and my periodontist > says I need surgery that will cost $11,000 which includes bone > grafts and will need to follow up with antibiotics. He is somewhat > holistically oriented and was refered to me by my holistic dentist, > so I am thinking that I want to trust his judgment, but can't help > wondering if there is some sort of alternative. My deepest pocket > is 13 mm, with lots of 7's, 8's and 9's in there. I am only 37 > years old which is supposed to be very rare for someone my age. > Additionally, such deep pockets are rare for even an older person. > > By the way, about a year ago, I switched my diet from a SAD diet to > a somewhat raw and somewhat Nourishing Traditions diet. I know my > problem started before the diet switch because I was having > puffiness and inflamation before I changed my diet. > > Does anyone know what alternative are available to me or what other > groups I can turn to for advice. Thank you. > > Helen > > > > > > > <X-HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN " > " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><HTML> > <BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " > > <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B> > <UL> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " / " >NATIVE > NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI> > <LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.dyndns.org/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire > message archive at once</LI> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " /join " >CHANGE</A></B> > your group settings</LI> > <LI><B><A HREF= " mailto: " >POST</A></B> a > message</LI> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " mailto: -subscribe " >SUBSCRIBE</A></B> > to the list</LI> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " mailto: -unsubscribe " >UNSUBSCRIBE</A></B> > from the list</LI> > </UL></FONT> > <PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A > HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B> > Idol > <B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer > Wanita Sears > </FONT></PRE> > </BODY></HTML></X-HTML> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 > I know my >> problem started before the diet switch because I was having >> puffiness and inflamation before I changed my diet. >> Helen, Do you eat wheat? My inflammation stopped within a few weeks of giving up gluten. Wanita -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 1/19/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Helen wrote > I have been diagnosed with severe gum disease and my periodontist > says I need surgery that will cost $11,000 which includes bone > grafts and will need to follow up with antibiotics. He is somewhat > holistically oriented and was refered to me by my holistic dentist, > so I am thinking that I want to trust his judgment, but can't help > wondering if there is some sort of alternative. My deepest pocket > is 13 mm, with lots of 7's, 8's and 9's in there. I am only 37 > years old which is supposed to be very rare for someone my age. > Additionally, such deep pockets are rare for even an older person. While surfing one day, I came across a reference to Oak Bark & Dr. s Herbal Tooth Powder for this. I can't speak for its efficacy, as I haven't tried it, but here is the reference: <http://www.herbsfirst.com/ailmentsdescriptions/gumspg.html> ~~ Jocelyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Subject: Gum Disease > Does anyone know what alternative are available to me or what other > groups I can turn to for advice. Thank you. > Hi Helen, these are two dental groups on where you could ask for help. The only other thing I could suggest is to look at electromedicine, specifically the magnetic pulser. DENTAL/ dentalcleanse/ Regards, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Actually I only have one filling which probably didn't even need to be filled it was so small and I had them put the white stuff in there. I have always prided myself on never having cavities so I never even thought I would have something as devastating as gum disease. I know I didn't floss very much and I'm sure that contributed. I also smoked on and off a few cigarettes a day for about 10 years when I was younger. Also, I had pregnancy diabetes with my two children. I know diabetics get gum disease easier, but this just still seems so strange to me. I feel like maybe there is something else wrong with me that I don't know about. Helen Gum Disease > > > I have been diagnosed with severe gum disease and my periodontist > says I need surgery that will cost $11,000 which includes bone > grafts and will need to follow up with antibiotics. He is somewhat > holistically oriented and was referred to me by my holistic dentist, > so I am thinking that I want to trust his judgment, but can't help > wondering if there is some sort of alternative. My deepest pocket > is 13 mm, with lots of 7's, 8's and 9's in there. I am only 37 > years old which is supposed to be very rare for someone my age. > Additionally, such deep pockets are rare for even an older person. > > By the way, about a year ago, I switched my diet from a SAD diet to > a somewhat raw and somewhat Nourishing Traditions diet. I know my > problem started before the diet switch because I was having > puffiness and inflammation before I changed my diet. > > Does anyone know what alternative are available to me or what other > groups I can turn to for advice. Thank you. > > Helen > > > > > > > <X-HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN " > " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><HTML> > <BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " > > <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B> > <UL> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " / " >NATIVE > NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI> > <LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.dyndns.org/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire > message archive at once</LI> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " /join " >CHANGE</A></B> > your group settings</LI> > <LI><B><A HREF= " mailto: " >POST</A></B> a > message</LI> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " mailto: -subscribe " >SUBSCRIBE</A></B> > to the list</LI> > <LI><B><A > HREF= " mailto: -unsubscribe " >UNSUBSCRIBE</A></B> > from the list</LI> > </UL></FONT> > <PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A > HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B> > Idol > <B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer > Wanita Sears > </FONT></PRE> > </BODY></HTML></X-HTML> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Lampinen [mailto:lampinen@...] > > I have been diagnosed with severe gum disease and my > periodontist says I need surgery that will cost $11,000 which > includes bone grafts and will need to follow up with > antibiotics. He is somewhat holistically oriented and was > refered to me by my holistic dentist, so I am thinking that I > want to trust his judgment, but can't help wondering if there > is some sort of alternative. My deepest pocket is 13 mm, > with lots of 7's, 8's and 9's in there. I am only 37 years > old which is supposed to be very rare for someone my age. I would expect being 37 years old to be quite common for your age. > Additionally, such deep pockets are rare for even an older person. I've also had periodontal problems recently. I don't know when they started, as I had been somewhat (very) lax about going to the dentist, but after nearly three years on a mostly-raw WAP-type diet, I had a few pockets as deep as five millimeters and some moderately severe recession (2-3 mm) on my lower incisors. Not nearly as bad as you (a half-inch pocket is just...wow), but I'm only 24. I've heard that high-dose (5 g or more per day) vitamin C can reduce gum inflammation and shrink pockets, but I don't think there's much you can do for bone loss without surgery. I read about an experiment in which stem cells were used to regrow gums in animals, but they estimated that it would be ten years before it was ready for clinical use in humans. Anyway, the moral of the story is to go to the dentist, even if you are eating well and taking your cod liver oil. And if you have been going to the dentist and he let this happen, you should find a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 ----- Original Message ----- From: " jag14 " > While surfing one day, I came across a reference to Oak Bark & Dr. > s Herbal Tooth Powder for this. I can't speak for its efficacy, > as I haven't tried it, If it works on gums the way it works on cavities, you'll get your money's worth! --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Dear Helen, You have my sympathies!! Here's something you could try in the near term, to try to avoid the surgery. Chet Day is a relatively reasonable guy (reformed vegan...) and his colleague " " -- the tooth soap seller -- seems to get at least _some_ NT concepts. http://chetday.com/toothsoap.shtml I've been trying the " new " liquid version of their tooth soap for a week or two now -- it does make your teeth feel very much cleaner than ordinary toothpastes do. She claims the lack of sticky glycerine (a typical toothpaste ingredient) is key, and, with that gone from your teeth, you'll be able to remineralize (if that's a concern). ( ...by eating high-quality NT-style bone broths and such, of course.) Chet has testimonials all the time about healed gums, so it might be worth trying. (I find it pretty spendy -- I'm tempted now to try just using a little Dr Bonners castile soap instead to see if I get the same feeling / results...) http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?id=1004 The other things that might help would be something with grapefruit seed extract (GSE) -- it's a potent germ killer: http://store.nutribiotic.com/pgi-productspec?1030 or http://store.nutribiotic.com/pgi-productspec?1031 or tea tree oil (Trader Joes has some for a sane price...) or some formulated-for-health toothpaste, like these from Life Extension: http://www.lef.org/newshop/cgi-shop/showCategory.cgi?catid=14000 I like their toothpaste; haven't tried the rest of their dental products. Apparently, there are stories about people rubbing CoQ10 (one of its ingredients) into their diseased gums and turning the situation around. Hydrogen peroxide as a mouthwash is also supposed to be another good treatment. and re: flossing. My " natural " dentist and hygienist said " don't bother " and they point out that no stretched piece of string can possibly " scrub " the contours of the sides of your teeth the way regular dentists apparently believe it will. It will obviously, pull out stuck bits of food, but it's not going to do much real cleaning for most of the surfaces of your teeth. They suggest that if you feel you need something more than brushing and a good rinse, try one of the " oral irrigator " water flossers (maybe using hydrogen peroxide??). Much more effective than floss, and kinder to the gums than tearing at them with floss... Remember too, that Price's natives didn't need to floss for their good teeth... (there was a recent ad for Listerine mouthwash, quoting research, saying that it alone was as effective as flossing -- with many backpedaling ADA assertions that you should not stop flossing...) re: bleeding gums if/when you floss -- I've been told that's a classic sign that you are not getting adequate Vitamin C. If you are, your tissues will be tough enough to withstand the rigors of flossing... good luck! Please let us know if you have success with any non-surgical treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 'sproduct line is based on the work of Dr. Judd PhD. http://goodteeth.tripod.com/judd.htm and make note of ref 7, and 8. . CF Beaver <fletcher@...> wrote: Dear Helen, You have my sympathies!! Here's something you could try in the near term, to try to avoid the surgery. Chet Day is a relatively reasonable guy (reformed vegan...) and his colleague " " -- the tooth soap seller -- seems to get at least _some_ NT concepts. http://chetday.com/toothsoap.shtml I've been trying the " new " liquid version of their tooth soap for a week or two now -- it does make your teeth feel very much cleaner than ordinary toothpastes do. She claims the lack of sticky glycerine (a typical toothpaste ingredient) is key, and, with that gone from your teeth, you'll be able to remineralize (if that's a concern). ( ...by eating high-quality NT-style bone broths and such, of course.) Chet has testimonials all the time about healed gums, so it might be worth trying. (I find it pretty spendy -- I'm tempted now to try just using a little Dr Bonners castile soap instead to see if I get the same feeling / results...) http://www.webvitamins.com/product.aspx?id=1004 The other things that might help would be something with grapefruit seed extract (GSE) -- it's a potent germ killer: http://store.nutribiotic.com/pgi-productspec?1030 or http://store.nutribiotic.com/pgi-productspec?1031 or tea tree oil (Trader Joes has some for a sane price...) or some formulated-for-health toothpaste, like these from Life Extension: http://www.lef.org/newshop/cgi-shop/showCategory.cgi?catid=14000 I like their toothpaste; haven't tried the rest of their dental products. Apparently, there are stories about people rubbing CoQ10 (one of its ingredients) into their diseased gums and turning the situation around. Hydrogen peroxide as a mouthwash is also supposed to be another good treatment. and re: flossing. My " natural " dentist and hygienist said " don't bother " and they point out that no stretched piece of string can possibly " scrub " the contours of the sides of your teeth the way regular dentists apparently believe it will. It will obviously, pull out stuck bits of food, but it's not going to do much real cleaning for most of the surfaces of your teeth. They suggest that if you feel you need something more than brushing and a good rinse, try one of the " oral irrigator " water flossers (maybe using hydrogen peroxide??). Much more effective than floss, and kinder to the gums than tearing at them with floss... Remember too, that Price's natives didn't need to floss for their good teeth... (there was a recent ad for Listerine mouthwash, quoting research, saying that it alone was as effective as flossing -- with many backpedaling ADA assertions that you should not stop flossing...) re: bleeding gums if/when you floss -- I've been told that's a classic sign that you are not getting adequate Vitamin C. If you are, your tissues will be tough enough to withstand the rigors of flossing... good luck! Please let us know if you have success with any non-surgical treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Berg wrote: > > Anyway, the moral of the story is to go to the dentist, even if you are > eating well and taking your cod liver oil. And if you have been going to the > dentist and he let this happen, you should find a new one. > > I went to the dentist after a long period of not going, and had a similar problem. My gums were receding too, which they said would just get worse and worse, not much to do about it but keep an eye on it. Anyway, since changing my diet, the pockets are gone, the gums have grown up quite a bit, and everything is healthy again. Which they tell me is doesn't happen still, so their notes must have been wrong. Hee hee. I think for me the culprit was probably low vitamin C, D, and the gluten issues ... I had inflammation all kinds of other places too, and my teeth used to be " loose " (I could feel them move a bit if I pressed them with my lips). I don't floss much, but I do have a little metal " scraper " that I can use to massage the teeth and get out stuck meat etc. Those work nicely ... and if you DO get a little plaque you can remove it yourself, which gives me a feeling of power!!!! You can carry the little gizmos in your purse too, for an instant toothpick. http://www.dentalconcepts.com/html/traveler.html I'd love to get some neem sticks though. -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 You should consider taking Q10 (only use the oil based stuff). Topical application is supposed to be helpful as well (bite on a capsule to open it). When I don't take Q10 for a couple of weeks, I sometimes have gum bleeding when brushing my teeth. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 I do eat it though in the soaked sprouted kind. I have never been tested for gluten intolerance but my daughter was and she didn't have it. I did try going GF for awhile just because, and found it extremely challenging. I think I will try a few other things before going that way again. Wanita, do you know how deep your pockets were by chance? Helen Re: Gum Disease > I know my >> problem started before the diet switch because I was having >> puffiness and inflamation before I changed my diet. >> Helen, Do you eat wheat? My inflammation stopped within a few weeks of giving up gluten. Wanita -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 1/19/2005 <X-HTML><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC " -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN " " http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd " ><HTML> <BODY><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " > <B>IMPORTANT ADDRESSES</B> <UL> <LI><B><A HREF= " / " >NATIVE NUTRITION</A></B> online</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " http://onibasu.dyndns.org/ " >SEARCH</A></B> the entire message archive at once</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " /join " >CHANGE</A></B> your group settings</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " mailto: " >POST</A></B> a message</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " mailto: -subscribe " >SUBSCRIBE</A></B> to the list</LI> <LI><B><A HREF= " mailto: -unsubscribe " >UNSUBSCRIBE</A></B> from the list</LI> </UL></FONT> <PRE><FONT FACE= " monospace " SIZE= " 3 " ><B><A HREF= " mailto: -owner " >LIST OWNER:</A></B> Idol <B>MODERATORS:</B> Heidi Schuppenhauer Wanita Sears </FONT></PRE> </BODY></HTML></X-HTML> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 > I do eat it though in the soaked sprouted kind. I have never been tested > for gluten intolerance but my daughter was and she didn't have it. I did > try going GF for awhile just because, and found it extremely challenging. > I think I will try a few other things before going that way again. > Wanita, do you know how deep your pockets were by chance? > Helen No, I don't as dentists were never in my budget, insurance and I've always had bad experiences with them as a child, same as doctors. You mentioned gestational diabetes. My mother is diabetic, my brother year younger than me was recently diagnosed diabetic and had to have his teeth all pulled at the same time, Mom at 18. Further suggestion is you find a copy of The Nutrition Solution by Harold Kristal D.D. S. for his diabetes diet adding NT prep. He allows oats and rye 3 X week but no wheat. Wanita -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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