Coconut Water

August 2, 2005

On 8/2/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> You just need to scrape it first thing in the morning--don't wanna

> chafe yourself--and don't expect the tongue to turn pink from scraping

> that stuff off. The tongue will turn pink when the overall waste

> level decreases; it's not a local phenom, but indicative of the state

> of your entire GI tract. Is the white just on the back of the tongue

> (colon) or covering the whole thing?

Whole thing from back to tip, and if I let it accumulate all day you

can barely see any pink showing through at all. If I use the tongue

scraper and brush my tongue aggressively, it is most solidly white in

the middle and the back, although I'm probably not reaching all the

way back.

What does that indicate?

> Yes, I remember reading your earlier conversation, which is why I

> asked. What I'm thinking is that since you are uncertain about your

> BP status, it *might* --combined with the ginseng--be the source of of

> those symptoms.

Well I'll drop it and see what happens. It's only moderately uncomfortable.

I was thinking it could also have been aggravated from handling

spoiled coconuts.

> > Well I'm actually quite weak now from the fasting. I generally don't

> > feel overcome by weakness, and sometimes quite energetic actually, but

> > I feel weak if I try to do much of anything.

>

> I suggest you don't do anything, then?

Oh, I'm not pushing myself. It's not like I'm hitting the gym or

anything. I did work out on the coconut oil fast, but I think this

one's a little different. On the VCO fast I was getting 2000 calories

a day.

> I see you have been fielding so many suggestions, and attempting to

> accomodate them all, so I am reluctant to add my own, but...

>

> Please be cautious fasting.

>

> Don't try to cleanse and build simultaneously IMO.

I'm not.

> If you feel weak, rest. You have a more delicate constitution than

> that of the resident fasting expert. That is not a judgement.

True... although I (we?) don't know what he was like at my age.

Constitutions change, right?

> You may very well have that, but if 's hypochloridia theory is

> correct, you certainly have a high level of undigested food waste

> clogging up your subtle channels and creating symptoms. The yogis

> would say to fast until your tongue is no longer white, but pink, and

> it is a most efficient way to detox, but in your case--with

> weakness--you may be better served by a series of short fasts. Then

> build, and you will be as strong/virile as a horse!

I'm not too weak to do what I need to do. I'm unemployed, and all I'm

really doing is research and writing.

> Meh, I gave you advice, sorry.

It gets lonely otherwise.

> > I'm taking two packets of an imported Korean ginseng instant tea.

> > It's in little granules. I use one in the morning and one in the

> > early evening.

>

> Is it anywhere from 250-500 mg of ginseng? Also, American ginseng is

> not inferior, if you can get it for a better price.

It doesn't say. The price was cheap, $1.49 for ten tea bags. I think

I will just dump it for now and see how I do though. I'm not sure

whether or not I need it.

Also, now that I have three cases of coconuts, I might get some energy

out of consuming more coconut water.

Chris

August 2, 2005

wrote:

>Or you can do like I do sometimes and put the coconuts in the fridge.

>By the way, I often drink the water and then leave the meat in the

>shell refrigerated until I'm ready to eat it. I have had the meat last

>for several weeks.

Oh I'm definitely refrigerating them! At the risk of spoilage... I

had them all refrigerated immediately after getting home. My

grandparents have another fridge in the basement that I'm using for

two of the cases.

> Also, how long does the meat last after it is scraped out?

>I wouldn't scrape it out until you are ready to eat it.

Hmm. Well I was thinking maybe what I should do is scrape it all out

and dehydrate it? I might not be eating any for a while, and I

wouldn't have room in my fridge for all these coconuts. Especially

not if I continue coconut water fasting next week.

> Finally, when I scraped my first coconut I got a lot of shell scraped

> along with it, and it looks like in most cases it will be hard to

> separate the meat from the little bit of shell-skin that came along

> with it. Is it edible?

Ok, good. Opening coconuts is enough hassle. :-P Although these are

much easier than mature ones.

> > Then later around early evening I was overcome by the desire to sleep.

> > I find that whenever doing a fast I usually have good energy during

> > the day and then am overcome by the desire to sleep in the early-mid

> > evening.

>

> Which means you should sleep. Listen to your body. Rest as much as you

> can. A fast on essentially water with some nut juice thrown in is very

> different than a fast on juices, especially if you have a high

> metabolism. Do what you need to do but rest when you need to rest. And

> make sure you get lots of fresh air and sunshine, and a little *light*

> exercise would be good.

Oh, I did sleep. I also decided not to set my alarm clock last night,

and will do so tonight, so that I only wake up when I'm done sleeping.

> > I have been extremely thirsty, and my tongue has been very white, so I

> > guess I'm detoxing.

>

> Water/coconut water fasting is much more aggressive than juice

> fasting. My first water fast was crazy. My tongue was coated, I was

> lethargic, I was giving off bad body odors, and this was after several

> long juice fasts. Man, that was the longest seven days of my life,

> LOL! Clearly I was quite toxic and some deep cleaning was going on.

> Now a days, water fasting is much easier.

I'm sure. I don't feel particularly lethargic or smell right now

(although it might get more intense as it progresses, I assume), but I

do get some periods lethargy/apathy

that come and go. For the most part it is only when I'm doing

something active that I start to notice the weakness.

> > Oddly, last night and this morning I had the usual rumbling in my

> > tummy as if I'd eaten food that was stuck in there! Even though all

> > I'd had yesterday was a quart of well-fermented coconut water (not

> > sweet at all), some ginsneg tea, and water.

>

> Ummm...no doubt there is much there. I have had heavy bowel movements

> deep into a fast.

Interesting. It doesn't seem like much could *fit* in there, although

I'm often surprised at what fits in the colon when it leaves. And

lots of stuff in there would probably explain my hanging gut that

isn't fat.

When I did the VCO fast, I had total diarrhea through the whole thing,

but then about five days into it I got constipated for the first time

I can remember, where I had this feeling like there was fully formed

material that I just couldn't push out. And sure enough, I passed a

bunch of solid stuff.

> > For some reason my breathing has been somewhat restricted like an

> > allergy, which started a couple days before I started fasting, but is

> > continuing now. Could be allergies-- my mom's are bothering her-- I'm

> > not sure.

> >

> > I lost five pounds yesterday, although I look pretty muscular and I

> > don't seem to have lost much fat, so I'm not sure what it's from.

> Lot of weight to lose in one day, but it should slow down.

When I did the VCO fast, I lost a ton of weight in the first three

days or so, and then my weight stabilized and I didn't lose much after

that.

> If not dump

> the ginseng and keep the coco water to a minimum.

Really? I understand the ginseng, but wouldn't I lose weight slower

the more calories I was consuming from coco water?

> You should lose no

> more than two pounds a day in the first few days of the fast.

> Remember, you don't *need* those herbs in the early days, the body is

> amazing in what it can do if you give it a physiological rest of

> sorts, i.e. it doesn't have to spend energy on digestion. I know it

> seems logical to add things that have what you need, but if you will

> allow me to talk in terms of art rather than science, the body has a

> logic all of its own when fasting. It heals and repairs as it sees

> fit.

I think it makes some scientific sense. I imagine that a pretty large

amount of food we eat just gets recycled into breaking down the food.

That's why refined foods can be so bad, because they are like negative

foods-- they take more to break down than what they give back.

Since enzymes are protein, I really wonder how much of our total

protein requirement goes into digestion. Probably a huge portion of

it.

Also, fasting probably breaks down a lot of tissue that has stored

nutrients in it that can be used to rebuild more important tissues.

Chris

August 2, 2005

On 8/2/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Hmm. Well I was thinking maybe what I should do is scrape it all out

> and dehydrate it? I might not be eating any for a while, and I

> wouldn't have room in my fridge for all these coconuts. Especially

> not if I continue coconut water fasting next week.

Or you can freeze the meat.

> Ok, good. Opening coconuts is enough hassle. :-P Although these are

> much easier than mature ones.

Here is a good sight on opening young coconuts:

http://www.rawguru.com/html/openyoungcoconut.html

Although I skip the scraping part.

> > > Oddly, last night and this morning I had the usual rumbling in my

> > > tummy as if I'd eaten food that was stuck in there! Even though all

> > > I'd had yesterday was a quart of well-fermented coconut water (not

> > > sweet at all), some ginsneg tea, and water.

> >

> > Ummm...no doubt there is much there. I have had heavy bowel movements

> > deep into a fast.

>

> Interesting. It doesn't seem like much could *fit* in there, although

> I'm often surprised at what fits in the colon when it leaves. And

> lots of stuff in there would probably explain my hanging gut that

> isn't fat.

>

> When I did the VCO fast, I had total diarrhea through the whole thing,

> but then about five days into it I got constipated for the first time

> I can remember, where I had this feeling like there was fully formed

> material that I just couldn't push out. And sure enough, I passed a

> bunch of solid stuff.

All though I don't know how true it is, the standard thinking is that

5-25 pounds of fecal matter is impacted in a person's colon. I've

heard some nasty stories and also am aware personally of people

passing a lot of crap while fasting that obviously was there long

before they embarked on a fast.

> When I did the VCO fast, I lost a ton of weight in the first three

> days or so, and then my weight stabilized and I didn't lose much after

> that.

>

> > If not dump

> > the ginseng and keep the coco water to a minimum.

>

> Really? I understand the ginseng, but wouldn't I lose weight slower

> the more calories I was consuming from coco water?

Even on a strict water fast the weight loss will slow down, but I

assuming that coco water has the same effects on metabolism that the

rest of the coconut products do. I could be wrong.

> > You should lose no

> > more than two pounds a day in the first few days of the fast.

> > Remember, you don't *need* those herbs in the early days, the body is

> > amazing in what it can do if you give it a physiological rest of

> > sorts, i.e. it doesn't have to spend energy on digestion. I know it

> > seems logical to add things that have what you need, but if you will

> > allow me to talk in terms of art rather than science, the body has a

> > logic all of its own when fasting. It heals and repairs as it sees

> > fit.

>

> I think it makes some scientific sense. I imagine that a pretty large

> amount of food we eat just gets recycled into breaking down the food.

> That's why refined foods can be so bad, because they are like negative

> foods-- they take more to break down than what they give back.

>

> Since enzymes are protein, I really wonder how much of our total

> protein requirement goes into digestion. Probably a huge portion of

> it.

I don't know, but that would be my guess.

>

> Also, fasting probably breaks down a lot of tissue that has stored

> nutrients in it that can be used to rebuild more important tissues.

That is exactly what fasting does, which is one reason it is so

powerful because it breaks down bad tissue/excess tissue/non-essential

tissue for whatever nutrients it needs (like tumors). When it starts

to hit good tissue you are no longer fasting but starving, and it is

time to break the fast.

August 2, 2005

> Whole thing from back to tip...

> What does that indicate?

The back of the tongue represents the colon. The whole tongue is the

whole GI tract. If the white stuff covers the whole tongue, then the

whole GI tract is full of it. An excellent reason to fast.

> True... although I... don't know what he was like at my age.

> Constitutions change, right?

Inborn constitution does not, but it can be realized. And surely he

optimized his own constitution by fasting (along with other

austerities) alternated with building. Am merely guessing here. IIRC

he has many years of applied experience (decades?) on all of us thus

his current apparent state of well-being. Anyone out there been at it

longer than himself?

When I say building btw, I mean even doing push-ups and taking ginseng

(at least at this stage). Ginseng is a " building " herb IOW it promotes

tissue growth. (Further, re: instant ginseng tea in little

granules--do we know what it is, exactly? Perhaps there's something

undisclosed there that could be the source of trouble? Well, you'll

know when you stop drinking it if that was it.)

I guess you could liken it to fitness in that one doesn't design a

program to burn fat and build muscle at the same time--perhaps at

first, but not after a certain amount of time or at a higher

level--you focus on one or the other. As for excercise during your

fast, you can certainly test yourself with walks/light cardio, but

just take it easy, you know? And if you get overly fatigued from your

walk/cardio, rest even more. You want the circulatory benefits, of

course, but all this striving/distraction--lay it down for now. Your

body is so *turned on* when fasting--it's such a rare opportunity for

it to burn/clean in the nooks and crannies--I mean, it's got *plenty*

of activity going on, but at more subtle levels.

Poor sweet child, I don't wanna take away his ginseng! I do think you

will be so happy drinking coconut water--like a blissed-out baby

monkey in the tropics somewhere. It's so precious--drink it straight!

Unless it gives you sugar blues, of course.

B.

/were you able to get your $$ back?

August 3, 2005

On 8/3/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> On 8/2/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

>

> > Hmm. Well I was thinking maybe what I should do is scrape it all out

> > and dehydrate it? I might not be eating any for a while, and I

> > wouldn't have room in my fridge for all these coconuts. Especially

> > not if I continue coconut water fasting next week.

>

> Or you can freeze the meat.

Oh, good point. When it's thawed, does it still taste/feel good?

Better than dried? Freezing would definitely be *easier*.

You know it's funny. When I was a full-time student, I didn't mind

doing tons of work preparing all my food from scratch. My friends

asked me if I had 36 hours in a day. When I started working

full-time, all of it became such a burden. Although, I haven't been

eating liver for a while because the store I got it from stopped

carrying it and I didn't have time to go to the farm. Maybe liver

makes all of this easier.

> > Ok, good. Opening coconuts is enough hassle. :-P Although these are

> > much easier than mature ones.

>

> Here is a good sight on opening young coconuts:

>

> http://www.rawguru.com/html/openyoungcoconut.html

>

> Although I skip the scraping part.

I saw that site before, and that's how I'm doing it. Although, Donna

Gates's site does it differently. She slices a couple thin slices on

the bottom to reveal the soft spot that is very easy to poke through,

and then drain the water from it.

> All though I don't know how true it is, the standard thinking is that

> 5-25 pounds of fecal matter is impacted in a person's colon. I've

> heard some nasty stories and also am aware personally of people

> passing a lot of crap while fasting that obviously was there long

> before they embarked on a fast.

Wow, that sounds crazy. Although five is easy to believe, since I've

had lots of 2-3 lb bowel movements. It seems it would be easy to

verify with autopsy.

> Even on a strict water fast the weight loss will slow down, but I

> assuming that coco water has the same effects on metabolism that the

> rest of the coconut products do. I could be wrong.

Oh I see. Well I think that benefit is from the fat, and coconut

water has a lot less of it than the other coconut products, but I

would actually say that the metabolic effects of *fasting* and

*coconut fat* are very similar. Putting digestion aside, juice

fasting is probably similar to water fasting *metabolically* because

there is so little food compared to normal. But even a large amount

of fat would approximate fasting metabolically (but not with respect

to digestion), at least in some ways. For example, sugar and protein

stimulate the insulin pathways, whereas both fat and fasting stimulate

the ketogenic pathways.

> That is exactly what fasting does, which is one reason it is so

> powerful because it breaks down bad tissue/excess tissue/non-essential

> tissue for whatever nutrients it needs (like tumors). When it starts

> to hit good tissue you are no longer fasting but starving, and it is

> time to break the fast.

How are you supposed to know?

Chris

August 3, 2005

On 8/3/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote>

> The back of the tongue represents the colon. The whole tongue is the

> whole GI tract. If the white stuff covers the whole tongue, then the

> whole GI tract is full of it. An excellent reason to fast.

Guess I'm on the right track then. This morning, my whole tongue was

whitish, but the tip had a lot of pink showing.

> > True... although I... don't know what he was like at my age.

> > Constitutions change, right?

> When I say building btw, I mean even doing push-ups and taking ginseng

> (at least at this stage). Ginseng is a " building " herb IOW it promotes

> tissue growth.

I didn't realize that ginseng was " building. " The pushups were

basically just a test, after which I decided it wasn't the time for

exercise.

> (Further, re: instant ginseng tea in little

> granules--do we know what it is, exactly? Perhaps there's something

> undisclosed there that could be the source of trouble? Well, you'll

> know when you stop drinking it if that was it.)

True... I didn't realize it was instant little granules till I opened it.

I also wonder whether I am allergic to the coconut water.

Although I must say that I believe the breathing thing began a few

days before I started coconut water and ginseng both.

> I guess you could liken it to fitness in that one doesn't design a

> program to burn fat and build muscle at the same time--perhaps at

> first, but not after a certain amount of time or at a higher

> level--you focus on one or the other. As for excercise during your

> fast, you can certainly test yourself with walks/light cardio, but

> just take it easy, you know? And if you get overly fatigued from your

> walk/cardio, rest even more. You want the circulatory benefits, of

> course, but all this striving/distraction--lay it down for now. Your

> body is so *turned on* when fasting--it's such a rare opportunity for

> it to burn/clean in the nooks and crannies--I mean, it's got *plenty*

> of activity going on, but at more subtle levels.

Well I can hear the activity right now! It sounds like I drank milk

last night or something. I'm taking Primal Defense too, which

historically causes some rumbling when it's being effective, and its

effect is probably more dramatic when fasting. I didn't get the

tablet pieces-o-crap but got the good powder stuff.

> Poor sweet child, I don't wanna take away his ginseng! I do think you

> will be so happy drinking coconut water--like a blissed-out baby

> monkey in the tropics somewhere. It's so precious--drink it straight!

> Unless it gives you sugar blues, of course.

I just need a little umbrella to put in it. (and...pineapple...and...vokda?)

Chris

August 3, 2005

On 8/3/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> > Or you can freeze the meat.

>

> Oh, good point. When it's thawed, does it still taste/feel good?

> Better than dried? Freezing would definitely be *easier*.

Seemed okay. I'm not a fan of dried coconut so anything to me is

better than that.

> > All though I don't know how true it is, the standard thinking is that

> > 5-25 pounds of fecal matter is impacted in a person's colon. I've

> > heard some nasty stories and also am aware personally of people

> > passing a lot of crap while fasting that obviously was there long

> > before they embarked on a fast.

>

> Wow, that sounds crazy. Although five is easy to believe, since I've

> had lots of 2-3 lb bowel movements. It seems it would be easy to

> verify with autopsy.

Yup, that is supposedly where the numbers come from.

> > That is exactly what fasting does, which is one reason it is so

> > powerful because it breaks down bad tissue/excess tissue/non-essential

> > tissue for whatever nutrients it needs (like tumors). When it starts

> > to hit good tissue you are no longer fasting but starving, and it is

> > time to break the fast.

>

> How are you supposed to know?

You will probably never get anywhere close to that, but traditionally

when hunger returns and doesn't go away it is time to break the fast.

August 3, 2005

On 8/3/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> > (Further, re: instant ginseng tea in little

> > granules--do we know what it is, exactly? Perhaps there's something

> > undisclosed there that could be the source of trouble? Well, you'll

> > know when you stop drinking it if that was it.)

>

> True... I didn't realize it was instant little granules till I opened it.

Run from that stuff. Toss it immediately, LOL!

> I also wonder whether I am allergic to the coconut water.

>

> Although I must say that I believe the breathing thing began a few

> days before I started coconut water and ginseng both.

I doubt you are allergic to coco water. Your breathing should return

to normal very soon if it hasn't already. Some MD's have prescribed

three day water fasts to alleviate symptoms of allergies very quickly.

August 3, 2009

It does have a lot of natural sugars. A better way to use coconut

water is to make " coconut kefir,'' that is, lacto-ferment it with

water kefir grains or even with whey. Powdered kefir starter sold by

Donna Gates's Body Ecology Diet or Wilderness Family Naturals, among

others, can also be used. The kefir grains or lactobacillus in the

whey metabolize the sugars. It tastes better to me when it's less

sweet. You can use fresh or canned coconut water. Kefir grains like

the minerals naturally found in coconut water. When you make kefir

soda with just water and sugar or fruit, you have to add some sea salt.

Jeanmarie

On Aug 3, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Katrina Cabral wrote:

> I think that coconut water has a lot of natural sugars in it. I

> bought a

> case of it last Summer and gave it to my daughter every day and her

> teeth

> started to turn brown. I stopped it and and they returned to their

> normal

> color.

>

> On 8/3/09 10:25 AM, " Joan Lulich " <joanlulich@...> wrote:

>

August 3, 2009

I think all the coconut waters are pastuerized too. My friend was looking into

company that set themselves apart b/c their's wasn't pastuerized

I know the ones I get at wholefoods always tasted so different than when I get

it out of real coconut, they taste mediciney and I always dilute them with

water.

- In , Jeanmarie Todd <jaytee3@...> wrote:

>

> It does have a lot of natural sugars. A better way to use coconut

> water is to make " coconut kefir,'' that is, lacto-ferment it with

> water kefir grains or even with whey. Powdered kefir starter sold by

> Donna Gates's Body Ecology Diet or Wilderness Family Naturals, among

> others, can also be used. The kefir grains or lactobacillus in the

> whey metabolize the sugars. It tastes better to me when it's less

> sweet. You can use fresh or canned coconut water. Kefir grains like

> the minerals naturally found in coconut water. When you make kefir

> soda with just water and sugar or fruit, you have to add some sea salt.

> Jeanmarie

>

> On Aug 3, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Katrina Cabral wrote:

>

> > I think that coconut water has a lot of natural sugars in it. I

> > bought a

> > case of it last Summer and gave it to my daughter every day and her

> > teeth

> > started to turn brown. I stopped it and and they returned to their

> > normal

> > color.

> >

> > On 8/3/09 10:25 AM, " Joan Lulich " <joanlulich@...> wrote:

> >

>

August 3, 2009

definitely the bottled/canned/tetra-pak brands don't compare to fresh.

I've never tried poking a hole in a fresh coconut myself, but it can't

be that hard. Nothing like a fresh one on the beach in Thailand! Lacto-

fermentation makes the pasteurized coconut water it a better product.

On Aug 3, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Cray Fish wrote:

> I think all the coconut waters are pastuerized too. My friend was

> looking into company that set themselves apart b/c their's wasn't

> pastuerized

> I know the ones I get at wholefoods always tasted so different than

> when I get it out of real coconut, they taste mediciney and I always

> dilute them with water.

>

> -

August 4, 2009

this place sells fresh coconut water - not pasteurized

http://www.naturesjuicecoop.com/products.php?keyword=all

>

> I think all the coconut waters are pastuerized too. My friend was looking into

company that set themselves apart b/c their's wasn't pastuerized

> I know the ones I get at wholefoods always tasted so different than when I get

it out of real coconut, they taste mediciney and I always dilute them with

water.

August 4, 2009

How to open a young coconut:

http://www.giveittomeraw.com/video/video/show?id=1407416%3AVideo%3A40476

It works! It really does!

-PattyT

>

> I've never tried poking a hole in a fresh coconut myself, but it can't be that

hard.

August 4, 2009

Do the minerals stay as they are when making kefir coconut?

On Aug 3, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Jeanmarie Todd wrote: