Coconut Water

[Guest guest]

On 7/27/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> When I was using coconut water I was able to get a case of young

> coconuts for $7.65 or something like that from Central Market, which I

> doubt they have in your neck of the woods. I would drink 4 a day along

> with the other liquids I was drinking (usually lemon water - 6 oz

> lemon to 36 oz water).

>

> So at .85 a coconut you are looking at $3.40 cents a day for 4 or

> $5.25 for 5.

Whole Foods sells them for $2.98/each and a smaller health food store

sells them for $2.99/each. So 5 would land me $15/day. I'm not sure

where else in my area to look for them.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/28/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 7/27/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

>

> > When I was using coconut water I was able to get a case of young

> > coconuts for $7.65 or something like that from Central Market, which I

> > doubt they have in your neck of the woods. I would drink 4 a day along

> > with the other liquids I was drinking (usually lemon water - 6 oz

> > lemon to 36 oz water).

> >

> > So at .85 a coconut you are looking at $3.40 cents a day for 4 or

> > $5.25 for 5.

>

> Whole Foods sells them for $2.98/each and a smaller health food store

> sells them for $2.99/each. So 5 would land me $15/day. I'm not sure

> where else in my area to look for them.

Did you get a case price quote from them? Whole Foods sells them for

$1.99 and Madison Market for $2.99 out here. But when I told the lady

at Madison Market that I could get them at Central Market for 85 cents

apiece she offered to sell them to me by the case at the store cost.

[Guest guest]

On 7/27/05, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> -

>

> >I know diddly about the Omega but I can find out some info for you in

> >terms of how it holds up juicing coconut meat.

>

> I'd appreciate it. I still have plenty of time, apparently, to cancel the

> order.

Best I could gather is that it is not great for doing coconut meat in

terms of durability/effectiveness but like my Champion it will do the

job. It seems one of the advantages of the Green Star/Life juicer that

if the little thingamabob (housing) breaks from juicing coco meat they

will replace it for free.

Nonetheless, since I juice so infrequently, I'm sticking with my Champion.

[Guest guest]

Ron,

<Not useful for nut butters, though.

For some reason I forgot to respond to this until today. The Norwalk

actually does nut butters as well, and gives specific directions for

almonds, walnuts, peanuts, filberts, and brazil nuts. I only tried this

once, with almonds, and the result was great, but here again another

hard-to-digest food I had to give up on. <sigh>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

-

>I only tried this

>once, with almonds, and the result was great, but here again another

>hard-to-digest food I had to give up on. <sigh>

Have you tried soaking them first, a la NT, and then making almond butter

with them? I've never done this myself, but I'd expect the result would be

rather more digestible.

-

[Guest guest]

,

<Have you tried soaking them first, a la NT, and then making almond butter

with them? I've never done this myself, but I'd expect the result would be

rather more digestible.

Unfortunately, all the recipes for nut butter or seed butter require that

the nuts/seeds be " thoroughly dry. " I think it has something to do with the

cutting mechanism. I do remember trying to soak some nuts years ago --

maybe almonds -- not to make butter, but just to make digestion easier. It

didn't work very well -- but maybe because once I start eating nuts, I can't

stop, so I really tax my system with an overload. In some areas, I just

have no self-discipline. <g>

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

On 7/28/05, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

> >Have you tried soaking them first, a la NT, and then making almond butter

> >with them? I've never done this myself, but I'd expect the result would be

> >rather more digestible.

> Unfortunately, all the recipes for nut butter or seed butter require that

> the nuts/seeds be " thoroughly dry. "

Couldn't you just dehydrate them after soaking?

Chris

[Guest guest]

The NT recipe calls for dehydrating them to it should be the same. You are

just sprouting them first. It should work just fine. Especially in a

jucier.

Blessings,

Re: Coconut Water

> Unfortunately, all the recipes for nut butter or seed butter require that

> the nuts/seeds be " thoroughly dry. "

Couldn't you just dehydrate them after soaking?

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 7/28/05, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> <Have you tried soaking them first, a la NT, and then making almond butter

> with them? I've never done this myself, but I'd expect the result would be

> rather more digestible.

>

> Unfortunately, all the recipes for nut butter or seed butter require that

> the nuts/seeds be " thoroughly dry. " I think it has something to do with the

> cutting mechanism. I do remember trying to soak some nuts years ago --

> maybe almonds -- not to make butter, but just to make digestion easier. It

> didn't work very well -- but maybe because once I start eating nuts, I can't

> stop, so I really tax my system with an overload. In some areas, I just

> have no self-discipline. <g>

Well your best bet would be to soak them and then dehydrate them. You

can do so at a temperature low enough (I think) where they would still

be considered raw. Of course they would not be AV approved, but then

again neither is soaking nuts.

[Guest guest]

& & ,

Thanks for your ideas on dehydration. It's likely the first soak, then dry

out, idea for nuts would work, but when I think about it, it just doesn't

seem worth it. It's a lot of work for someone who doesn't much like to

think about food, shop for it or prepare it, esp. when I might just have

digestive problems again (still feeling bad about that foray into fruits and

right now happy to be back to my same-old, same-old), and it's not like nuts

really offer me something I'm not getting elsewhere, nutritian-wise. Not to

mention it's a food I all too readily abuse!

But I do thank you, and , for trying to help.

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

-

>Best I could gather is that it is not great for doing coconut meat in

>terms of durability/effectiveness but like my Champion it will do the

>job. It seems one of the advantages of the Green Star/Life juicer that

>if the little thingamabob (housing) breaks from juicing coco meat they

>will replace it for free.

Thanks! That is pretty impressive about the Green Star, but I got the

Omega on a pretty substantial discount, so since I just don't do that much

juicing, it doesn't sound like it's worth the extra (double) expense.

-

[Guest guest]

On 7/28/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Did you get a case price quote from them? Whole Foods sells them for

> $1.99 and Madison Market for $2.99 out here. But when I told the lady

> at Madison Market that I could get them at Central Market for 85 cents

> apiece she offered to sell them to me by the case at the store cost.

I bought a case of 9 today for $24.16 which was a 10% discount off the

retail price for individuals. Having no other place, to my knowledge

anyway, to get them, I ordered three cases to come in Monday or so.

I'm starting my fast Monday, which, being on the new calendar,

coincides with the upcoming fast.

I want to ferment the coconut water, but I don't have any kefir grains

at the moment, and even if I find someone to borrow them from, I was

unsure whether I should use kefir grains that have been in milk in the

coconut water (trace casein, etc). So I ordered the body ecology

" kefir " starter packets, but have no idea when they'll get here.

I'm thinking that I will do a straight coconut water fast for three

days (possibly including glutamine for gut healing), and then will add

in a free form amino acid supplement, but at a pretty low dose, and

then VCO, then coco cream, etc. Then after the two-week fast I'll add

maybe bone broths for a day or two, and then meat, veggies, etc.

Figure I'll add ghee for a while and not butter till later. Besides

meat and SCD-approved fruits veggies (minus fruits that sometimes give

me an itchy throat), and then any foods beyond that I'll add back in

only one per week, or something like that, and get rid of them if I

feel worse for any reason that week. Etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> I want to ferment the coconut water, but I don't have any kefir grains

> at the moment, and even if I find someone to borrow them from, I was

> unsure whether I should use kefir grains that have been in milk in the

> coconut water (trace casein, etc). So I ordered the body ecology

> " kefir " starter packets, but have no idea when they'll get here.

Don't know if this has been dealt with as I've been absent for a few days.

You can ferment your coconut water with whey starter. I do it all of the

time. About two or three tablespoons in a half gallon.

The Body Ecology grains taste a little bit better and work faster but they

are just too expensive and I tend to prefer things that don't come out of a

packet.

Ron

[Guest guest]

My three cases of coconuts came in today, and the first one I've

opened so far was good! What a relieving sign. I'm hoping this will

be a much better batch than the list simply because I got it right

when they got it. All of the coconuts *look* fresher on the outside,

too.

A couple questions:

How long does fresh, refrigerated coconut water last? Would it be

better to open all of my coconuts now and collect the water so they

don't have a chance to spoil? My kefir packets aren't in yet, and I'm

drinking fresh coconut water today, but I suppose the way it will last

longest is to open it soon and ferment it. Although I don't think I

have enough jars to ferment three cases in one day.

Also, how long does the meat last after it is scraped out?

Finally, when I scraped my first coconut I got a lot of shell scraped

along with it, and it looks like in most cases it will be hard to

separate the meat from the little bit of shell-skin that came along

with it. Is it edible?

Thanks!

Chris

[Guest guest]

Can't answer your questions about fresh water as I always ferment mine.

> Also, how long does the meat last after it is scraped out?

Not too long, in my experience. A couple of days at most before it starts

to turn.

>

> Finally, when I scraped my first coconut I got a lot of shell scraped

> along with it, and it looks like in most cases it will be hard to

> separate the meat from the little bit of shell-skin that came along

> with it. Is it edible?

Hmm. I have not found that to be the case. I just take a regular soup

spoon and use the side to scrape against the husk. It takes a little bit of

work but usually comes right up. And I eat the little pieces of husk that

tag along. No evidence of damage so far.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know of a website that gives instructions on how to know

when a young coconut is spoiled and what's safe to eat/drink and what

isn't? I can't for the life of me use a search engine to get anything

on the topic at all. It amazes me that it seems to be such a popular

niche food and there doesn't seem to be any info on it.

My second two coconuts out of this batch are apparently bad, because

there was a portion of the meat which was graish/purplish. But it was

light and the majority of the meat was very white. It is annyingly

hard to tell what I should be using and what I shouldn't. Should I be

tossing them if there is ANY color change at all in the purple/gray

direction?

If so then I'm continuing to have a depressingly low rate of success

with these coconuts... *sigh*...

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris:

<Does anyone know of a website that gives instructions on how to know

when a young coconut is spoiled and what's safe to eat/drink and what

isn't?

This might be what you're looking for. Has pictures, too.

http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/mcoconutkefir.php

http://www.taichi4seniors.com

[Guest guest]

www.bodyecologydiet.com has LOTS of great pics for coconut kefir.

Re: Coconut Water

Does anyone know of a website that gives instructions on how to know

when a young coconut is spoiled and what's safe to eat/drink and what

isn't? I can't for the life of me use a search engine to get anything

on the topic at all.

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/05, West <clairewest@...> wrote:

> This might be what you're looking for. Has pictures, too.

> http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/mcoconutkefir.php

Thanks and !

That's by far the most helpful site I've seen.

Part of the problem, though, is that it's difficult to tell where to

draw the line. In her example, the difference was so obvious and the

bad coconut looked AWFUL, but I've had a couple coconuts that didn't

look so bad and just had a shade of purplish gray darkening only a

portion of the inside of the meat, where the water looked basically

the same as the other water. I threw them out being unsure. But I

wonder if there's any degree of spoilage to tolerate.

I did open my fourth coconut and got a good one, so I'm 2 for 4 today.

That made me pretty happy, as I had only had less than a pint of it

today and about a gallon of water. Although I must say that in

mid-day when I'd basically been water-fasting all day I was overcome

by a feeling of happiness for no reason, once I'd gotten off the

computer at UMass and head over to Whole Foods to pick up my coconuts.

I also bought a liter of Penta water and drank it pretty quickly,

which gave me quite a bit of energy.

Then later around early evening I was overcome by the desire to sleep.

I find that whenever doing a fast I usually have good energy during

the day and then am overcome by the desire to sleep in the early-mid

evening.

I have been extremely thirsty, and my tongue has been very white, so I

guess I'm detoxing.

Oddly, last night and this morning I had the usual rumbling in my

tummy as if I'd eaten food that was stuck in there! Even though all

I'd had yesterday was a quart of well-fermented coconut water (not

sweet at all), some ginsneg tea, and water.

For some reason my breathing has been somewhat restricted like an

allergy, which started a couple days before I started fasting, but is

continuing now. Could be allergies-- my mom's are bothering her-- I'm

not sure.

I lost five pounds yesterday, although I look pretty muscular and I

don't seem to have lost much fat, so I'm not sure what it's from.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> I have been extremely thirsty, and my tongue has been very white, so I

> guess I'm detoxing.

Do you have a tongue-scraper? If not, use the back of a spoon, but

scrape that stuff off first thing every morning.

> For some reason my breathing has been somewhat restricted like an

> allergy, which started a couple days before I started fasting, but is

> continuing now. Could be allergies--my mom's are bothering her-- I'm

> not sure.

Do you have high blood pressure? If so, the ginseng may be

contraindicated. Also, if one is not weak, the ginseng can be

quite...stimulating. Further, in case of high levels of morbid, toxic

food waste--indicated by a very white tongue--one shouldn't use

ginseng but wait until the cleansing is done first, then build later

with the ginseng.

> I lost five pounds yesterday, although I look pretty muscular and I

> don't seem to have lost much fat, so I'm not sure what it's from.

This is what would be expected from ginseng--how much are you taking?

B.

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> Do you have a tongue-scraper? If not, use the back of a spoon, but

> scrape that stuff off first thing every morning.

Hi ,

Yes, I have a stainless steal tongue scraper that is supposed to last

for three years. I'm using it in the morning and at night, and if i

think of it, during the day. It makes me very thirsty because it

dehydrates my tongue, but right now it isn't very effective at making

my tongue pink. However, if I scrub my tongue very diligently when I

brush my teeth a lot of it comes off and some pink get revealed-- for

a few hours anyway.

> > For some reason my breathing has been somewhat restricted like an

> > allergy, which started a couple days before I started fasting, but is

> > continuing now. Could be allergies--my mom's are bothering her-- I'm

> > not sure.

>

> Do you have high blood pressure? If so, the ginseng may be

> contraindicated.

I don't know. When the doc takes my blood pressure, usually it is

sky-high at first, and then they take it a few more times and it is

all over the place. Once it was too high, and then they took it again

and it was too low and they took it again and it was just right.

Anyway, I don't consider that reliable because it bothers me so much

to have my blood pressure taken.

Although I will say that on the left side of my head I often feel like

there is tension there-- no headache, just tension, and I wonder if

that is related to high BP. It seems to be more noticeable if I lay

on my right side when sleeping.

From what I have heard, magnesium is very effective at lowering blood

pressure, and I was taking some for a while and stopped when I ran

out. I've read that mercury can cause high BP, and I did get a lot of

mercury fillings when I was a kid. One fell out one time too-- who

knows, probably swallowed it.

> Also, if one is not weak, the ginseng can be

> quite...stimulating.

Well I'm actually quite weak now from the fasting. I generally don't

feel overcome by weakness, and sometimes quite energetic actually, but

I feel weak if I try to do much of anything. Like I actually felt

like carrying three cases of coconuts up the stairs into my house was

something of a workout. I tried doing pushups, and, while I don't

know how far I could have gone to failure, I gave up at 10 having no

desire to go any further.

Also, due to availability of coconut water, I've mostly been water

fasting. For example, I had a quart of CW yesterday and probably a

pint and a half today, plus a gallon of water.

> Further, in case of high levels of morbid, toxic

> food waste--indicated by a very white tongue--one shouldn't use

> ginseng but wait until the cleansing is done first, then build later

> with the ginseng.

Ok, maybe I'll try going without it. I'm probably detoxing more than

food waste. I bet I have circulating toxins from my root canaled

tooth, too. When I had the other one removed, my throat almost closed

completely up, my pulse went through the roof, and I saw all kinds of

flashing fireworks behind my closed eyes. Not sure why, but I'm

guessing it was from a sudden release of toxins from the tooth into my

bloodstream. So the other one is probably dishing out low levels in

the background.

> > I lost five pounds yesterday, although I look pretty muscular and I

> > don't seem to have lost much fat, so I'm not sure what it's from.

>

> This is what would be expected from ginseng--how much are you taking?

> B.

I'm taking two packets of an imported Korean ginseng instant tea.

It's in little granules. I use one in the morning and one in the

early evening.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Yes, I have a stainless steal tongue scraper that is supposed to last

> for three years. I'm using it in the morning and at night, and if i

> think of it, during the day. It makes me very thirsty because it

> dehydrates my tongue, but right now it isn't very effective at making

> my tongue pink. However, if I scrub my tongue very diligently when I

> brush my teeth a lot of it comes off and some pink get revealed-- for

> a few hours anyway.

You just need to scrape it first thing in the morning--don't wanna

chafe yourself--and don't expect the tongue to turn pink from scraping

that stuff off. The tongue will turn pink when the overall waste

level decreases; it's not a local phenom, but indicative of the state

of your entire GI tract. Is the white just on the back of the tongue

(colon) or covering the whole thing?

When the doc takes my blood pressure, usually it is

> sky-high at first, and then they take it a few more times and it is

> all over the place.

Yes, I remember reading your earlier conversation, which is why I

asked. What I'm thinking is that since you are uncertain about your

BP status, it *might* --combined with the ginseng--be the source of of

those symptoms.

> Well I'm actually quite weak now from the fasting. I generally don't

> feel overcome by weakness, and sometimes quite energetic actually, but

> I feel weak if I try to do much of anything.

I suggest you don't do anything, then?

I see you have been fielding so many suggestions, and attempting to

accomodate them all, so I am reluctant to add my own, but...

Please be cautious fasting.

Don't try to cleanse and build simultaneously IMO.

If you feel weak, rest. You have a more delicate constitution than

that of the resident fasting expert. That is not a judgement.

I'm probably detoxing more than

> food waste. I bet I have circulating toxins from my root canaled

> tooth, too. When I had the other one removed, my throat almost closed

> completely up, my pulse went through the roof, and I saw all kinds of

> flashing fireworks behind my closed eyes. Not sure why, but I'm

> guessing it was from a sudden release of toxins from the tooth into my

> bloodstream. So the other one is probably dishing out low levels in

> the background.

You may very well have that, but if 's hypochloridia theory is

correct, you certainly have a high level of undigested food waste

clogging up your subtle channels and creating symptoms. The yogis

would say to fast until your tongue is no longer white, but pink, and

it is a most efficient way to detox, but in your case--with

weakness--you may be better served by a series of short fasts. Then

build, and you will be as strong/virile as a horse!

Meh, I gave you advice, sorry.

> I'm taking two packets of an imported Korean ginseng instant tea.

> It's in little granules. I use one in the morning and one in the

> early evening.

Is it anywhere from 250-500 mg of ginseng? Also, American ginseng is

not inferior, if you can get it for a better price.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> A couple questions:

>

> How long does fresh, refrigerated coconut water last? Would it be

> better to open all of my coconuts now and collect the water so they

> don't have a chance to spoil? My kefir packets aren't in yet, and I'm

> drinking fresh coconut water today, but I suppose the way it will last

> longest is to open it soon and ferment it. Although I don't think I

> have enough jars to ferment three cases in one day.

Or you can do like I do sometimes and put the coconuts in the fridge.

By the way, I often drink the water and then leave the meat in the

shell refrigerated until I'm ready to eat it. I have had the meat last

for several weeks.

> Also, how long does the meat last after it is scraped out?

I wouldn't scrape it out until you are ready to eat it.

> Finally, when I scraped my first coconut I got a lot of shell scraped

> along with it, and it looks like in most cases it will be hard to

> separate the meat from the little bit of shell-skin that came along

> with it. Is it edible?

Yup.

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> I did open my fourth coconut and got a good one, so I'm 2 for 4 today.

> That made me pretty happy, as I had only had less than a pint of it

> today and about a gallon of water. Although I must say that in

> mid-day when I'd basically been water-fasting all day I was overcome

> by a feeling of happiness for no reason, once I'd gotten off the

> computer at UMass and head over to Whole Foods to pick up my coconuts.

> I also bought a liter of Penta water and drank it pretty quickly,

> which gave me quite a bit of energy.

>

> Then later around early evening I was overcome by the desire to sleep.

> I find that whenever doing a fast I usually have good energy during

> the day and then am overcome by the desire to sleep in the early-mid

> evening.

Which means you should sleep. Listen to your body. Rest as much as you

can. A fast on essentially water with some nut juice thrown in is very

different than a fast on juices, especially if you have a high

metabolism. Do what you need to do but rest when you need to rest. And

make sure you get lots of fresh air and sunshine, and a little *light*

exercise would be good.

> I have been extremely thirsty, and my tongue has been very white, so I

> guess I'm detoxing.

Water/coconut water fasting is much more aggressive than juice

fasting. My first water fast was crazy. My tongue was coated, I was

lethargic, I was giving off bad body odors, and this was after several

long juice fasts. Man, that was the longest seven days of my life,

LOL! Clearly I was quite toxic and some deep cleaning was going on.

Now a days, water fasting is much easier.

> Oddly, last night and this morning I had the usual rumbling in my

> tummy as if I'd eaten food that was stuck in there! Even though all

> I'd had yesterday was a quart of well-fermented coconut water (not

> sweet at all), some ginsneg tea, and water.

Ummm...no doubt there is much there. I have had heavy bowel movements

deep into a fast.

> For some reason my breathing has been somewhat restricted like an

> allergy, which started a couple days before I started fasting, but is

> continuing now. Could be allergies-- my mom's are bothering her-- I'm

> not sure.

>

> I lost five pounds yesterday, although I look pretty muscular and I

> don't seem to have lost much fat, so I'm not sure what it's from.

Lot of weight to lose in one day, but it should slow down. If not dump

the ginseng and keep the coco water to a minimum. You should lose no

more than two pounds a day in the first few days of the fast.

Remember, you don't *need* those herbs in the early days, the body is

amazing in what it can do if you give it a physiological rest of

sorts, i.e. it doesn't have to spend energy on digestion. I know it

seems logical to add things that have what you need, but if you will

allow me to talk in terms of art rather than science, the body has a

logic all of its own when fasting. It heals and repairs as it sees

fit.

[Guest guest]

On 8/2/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> Well I'm actually quite weak now from the fasting. I generally don't

> feel overcome by weakness, and sometimes quite energetic actually, but

> I feel weak if I try to do much of anything. Like I actually felt

> like carrying three cases of coconuts up the stairs into my house was

> something of a workout. I tried doing pushups, and, while I don't

> know how far I could have gone to failure, I gave up at 10 having no

> desire to go any further.

Then rest. But this is one place where a light aerobic workout might be helpful.

> Also, due to availability of coconut water, I've mostly been water

> fasting. For example, I had a quart of CW yesterday and probably a

> pint and a half today, plus a gallon of water.

Yeah, you are on the aggressive course. Weakness, coated tongue, etc. Rest.

> > Further, in case of high levels of morbid, toxic

> > food waste--indicated by a very white tongue--one shouldn't use

> > ginseng but wait until the cleansing is done first, then build later

> > with the ginseng.

>

> Ok, maybe I'll try going without it. I'm probably detoxing more than

> food waste. I bet I have circulating toxins from my root canaled

> tooth, too. When I had the other one removed, my throat almost closed

> completely up, my pulse went through the roof, and I saw all kinds of

> flashing fireworks behind my closed eyes. Not sure why, but I'm

> guessing it was from a sudden release of toxins from the tooth into my

> bloodstream. So the other one is probably dishing out low levels in

> the background.

No doubt.