Re: X butter -- reviving an old thread

[Guest guest]

I was just looking through some old threads when I came across this.

Last year at the WAP conference, I spoke to Sally Fallon and Kaayla about

this

product and they highly recommended it saying that they found it it boosted

immunity in

their families. I spoke to an Amish grass farmer who makes raw grassfed butter

and he

said he noticed a difference in his health when he was taking the butter oil. A

few friends

also said they had improved immunity to winter colds when they were taking it.

Of course, 3 things disturb me about this product. When I (and my family) took 3

bottles

of it winter, I was sick about 8 times more than normal -- so was my daughter.

This is

probably due to some kind of bacterial infection I later found out I got from an

Italian

restaurant. My daughter had also eaten off of my plate, so that may be why she

was sick

too.

Another issue I take is that when I talked to the Green Pastures guy who makes

it. I told

him that it would be helpful for him to show just how much more of the reported

nutrients

are in his product. In other words, what quantity of regular butter would be

needed to get

the same results as 1/2 tsp of his butter oil, suggesting that this would help

people to

justify the price in their mind. Well, he gave me a NASTY look and mumbled under

his

breath. No other response. My only conclusion is that he has never tested it and

is perhaps

hoping that his product has all the benefits of Dr. Price's butter oil based on

the method

Price describes in his book.

Finally, I talked to a company that was reselling his product for a short period

of time.

They claimed that they stopped carrying it because " He's only out to make

money. " This

kind of confirmed what I was thinking when I made the suggestion to him, but if

so many

people feel it is making such a difference in their health, that makes me feel

that perhaps I

jumped to conclusions with his response.

Bottom line is -- I'm on the fence with this one.

Any feedback? I'm interested to hear how this experience sits with others on

this list.

Adrienne

>

> Phil-

>

> >I was reading about 'x-butter " on the Green Pastures website and was

> >wondering if it is really worth the price.Isn't it butter made from grass

> >fed cows?

>

> It's actually the oil fraction of grass-fed butter isolated by

> centrifuging. I have a hard time believing it's really worth the price,

> though.

>

>

>

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, ahewcn <ahewcn@...> wrote:

> Bottom line is -- I'm on the fence with this one.

>

> Any feedback? I'm interested to hear how this experience sits with others on

this list.

I don't see how this stuff could possibly be worth the price,

especially if you're already making/buying raw butter from grassfed

cows. When making ghee (cooked rather than centrifuged), a pound of

butter yields about a pint of ghee. That's a very small loss of

volume, meaning the butter is already mostly butter oil (don't they

usually quote somewhere around 80+% butterfat?). Since centrifuging

wouldn't probably yield much more or less, that means a teaspoon of

that oil is, at best, a teaspoon and a quarter of plain old butter.

Of course the claim is that it's specifically fast-growing spring/fall

grass, but so what? I'd rather stockpile local butter from those

months and toss it in the freezer than pay what they ask. Radiant

Life is selling the X-factor stuff for $60 per 8oz, i.e. $120 per pint

or $120 per pound of original butter, if my math is correct. That's

just absurd. Hell, I'd stick with my $7 per pound winter butter over

that, if only to spite those with the gall to demand those prices.

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, Furbish <efurbish@...> wrote:

> When making ghee (cooked rather than centrifuged), a >pound of

> butter yields about a pint of ghee. That's a very small >loss of

> volume, meaning the butter is already mostly butter oil >(don't they

> usually quote somewhere around 80+% butterfat?). Since centrifuging

> wouldn't probably yield much more or less, that means a teaspoon of

> that oil is, at best, a teaspoon and a quarter of plain old butter.

I'd like to see a nutrient breakdown, but ghee and butter oil are two

totally different things. If it's true that it's 16 times

concentrated, your math is all wrong. Of course, no one has verified

the nutrient density.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 10/31/05, Furbish <efurbish@...> wrote:

>

> > When making ghee (cooked rather than centrifuged), a >pound of

> > butter yields about a pint of ghee. That's a very small >loss of

> > volume, meaning the butter is already mostly butter oil >(don't they

> > usually quote somewhere around 80+% butterfat?). Since centrifuging

> > wouldn't probably yield much more or less, that means a teaspoon of

> > that oil is, at best, a teaspoon and a quarter of plain old butter.

>

> I'd like to see a nutrient breakdown, but ghee and butter oil are two

> totally different things. If it's true that it's 16 times

> concentrated, your math is all wrong. Of course, no one has verified

> the nutrient density.

So you're saying that butter oil is less than just the oil fraction of

butter? The argument being something similar to that for high-vitamin

CLO, where nutrients concentrate at the very bottom of the tank?

Because ghee can't be much other than the butterfat itself, since

there isn't any liquid or other solids. Of course it's cooked etc,

but my example was really just to estimate volume.

Is this concentration what they claim to be doing? I'll do some

searching sometime, but if anyone has info on what their process

supposedly is, that'd be useful. Somehow I doubt they're really just

taking 1/16th of the whole gob of oil, but maybe I'm wrong.

Are you sure they're not saying it's 16x more concentrated than

*milk*? That seems to roughly work out for my typical ratios.

[Guest guest]

--- In , Furbish <efurbish@g...>

wrote:

> So you're saying that butter oil is less than just the oil fraction of

> butter? The argument being something similar to that for high-vitamin

> CLO, where nutrients concentrate at the very bottom of the tank?

> Because ghee can't be much other than the butterfat itself, since

> there isn't any liquid or other solids. Of course it's cooked etc,

> but my example was really just to estimate volume.

>

> Is this concentration what they claim to be doing? I'll do some

> searching sometime, but if anyone has info on what their process

> supposedly is, that'd be useful. Somehow I doubt they're really just

> taking 1/16th of the whole gob of oil, but maybe I'm wrong.

,

AFAIK the butter oil is not concentrated in any way and is in fact

merely the *unheated* oil fraction of butter. What makes it special

is that the cows eat rapid-growing grass from

especially-prepped/irrigated pastures.

http://greenpasture.org/butter_oil.php

If one has access to excellent quality raw butter, there is really no

reason to buy it teh butter oil, other than for insurance purposes IMO.

I doubt Dave Wetzel is just in it for the sweet moola, but I perhaps

I'm mistaken.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

>

> ,

> AFAIK the butter oil is not concentrated in any way and is in fact

> merely the *unheated* oil fraction of butter. What makes it special

> is that the cows eat rapid-growing grass from

> especially-prepped/irrigated pastures.

So that's $120/quart cream? That's cream, right? They don't put

bourbon in it or nuthin? Just asking.

[Guest guest]

--- In , Furbish <efurbish@g...>

wrote:

> So that's $120/quart cream? That's cream, right? They don't put

> bourbon in it or nuthin? Just asking.

>

,

I'm going to stop posting forever.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

>

>

> > So that's $120/quart cream? That's cream, right? They don't put

> > bourbon in it or nuthin? Just asking.

> >

> ,

> I'm going to stop posting forever.

> B.

aw, i suck.

eric

[Guest guest]

My point exactly, Chris. I didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers with my

questions, but there

are so many unanswered questions about this product. I, too, prefer to buy the

butter, but

for those who can't get grassfed butter or are terrified by eating more than a

1/2 tsp or more

at a time, I can see the value -- if it does what it says.

Adrienne

> I'd like to see a nutrient breakdown, but ghee and butter oil are two

> totally different things. If it's true that it's 16 times

> concentrated, your math is all wrong. Of course, no one has verified

> the nutrient density.

>

> Chris

> --

> Dioxins in Animal Foods:

> A Case For Vegetarianism?

> Find Out the Truth:

> http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

>

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, Furbish <efurbish@...> wrote:

> On 10/31/05, ahewcn <ahewcn@...> wrote:

> > Bottom line is -- I'm on the fence with this one.

> >

> > Any feedback? I'm interested to hear how this experience sits with others on

this list.

>

> I don't see how this stuff could possibly be worth the price,

> especially if you're already making/buying raw butter from grassfed

> cows. When making ghee (cooked rather than centrifuged), a pound of

> butter yields about a pint of ghee. That's a very small loss of

> volume, meaning the butter is already mostly butter oil (don't they

> usually quote somewhere around 80+% butterfat?). Since centrifuging

> wouldn't probably yield much more or less, that means a teaspoon of

> that oil is, at best, a teaspoon and a quarter of plain old butter.

>

> Of course the claim is that it's specifically fast-growing spring/fall

> grass, but so what? I'd rather stockpile local butter from those

> months and toss it in the freezer than pay what they ask. Radiant

> Life is selling the X-factor stuff for $60 per 8oz, i.e. $120 per pint

> or $120 per pound of original butter, if my math is correct. That's

> just absurd. Hell, I'd stick with my $7 per pound winter butter over

> that, if only to spite those with the gall to demand those prices.

>

>

Some quotes from from Weston Price and previous posts regarding butter oil:

" I have found in these studies that, in the

control of dental caries, while the consumption of whole butter is an

aid in mineral metabolism, greater potency may be obtained by melting

a high vitamin butter and allowing it to crystallize for twenty-four

hours at a temperature of about 70 degrees. It is then centrifuged,

and, under the process, it separates into an oil that is liquid at

that temperature, with a solid crystalline layer below. This oil is

much higher in the activating factor than the whole butter. "

Weston Price

###

Hi ,

It takes around 16 gallons of cream to make 1 gallon of butter oil,

which includes the most nutrient-dense oil containing all the

fat-soluble vitamins and x-factor, not the whey or milk solids. In my

experience making butter it takes 2-3 parts cream to make 1 part butter.

So if that is correct then butter oil is 5 times more concentrated than

butter itself in these important factors. (I have been meaning to run

this figure by Green Pastures to see if this is correct - Dave?)

Considering that we recommend taking this quantity of butter oil in

addition to your normal intake of butter, this can offer a significant

source of extra nutrients in one's diet. The x-factor butter oil has a

very long shelf life stored in a cool dark place (not necessarily

refrigerated).

The reason that we are all excited about the product is that Dr. Price

had such extraordinary results with it (see chapter 22 in N & PD). Over

the past year we have received wonderful responses from our customers

who have taken it, which has for us validated Dr. Price's enthusiasm.

All the best,

www.radiantlifecatalog.com

###

You can buy used centrifuges at ebay. Reasonable prices.

I could not come up with a market with my current customers to justify

the added expense and time it would take to produce the butter oil in

this manner. The product would be more expensive to produce and not

the same quality flavor. My butter oil is clarified and at a very low

temperature..110-115 degrees. And should be stored in the refrigerator

or freezer.

I will re-look at making the butter oil through a centrifuge if enough

support for product is present..drop me a note if you would like to

see this product

Good luck on ebay. Drop me a direct note if you would like some issues

I found when shopping for a centrifuge through ebay for a butter oil

application

Dave

my comment: I do think he now uses a centrifuge. This post is about 4 years old.

###

n a message dated 3/31/03 5:55:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

R@c... writes:

Thanks Dryad, but I wanted completely unheated butter. But now that

you mention it, it occurs to me that the raw butter oil is really

like ghee except unheated. I used to use ghee and liked the fact that

it keeps a long time.

Isn't ghee just clarified of milk solids? If so, the butter oil is much more

nutrient-dense.

Chris

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

###

Butter oil was centrifuged, high vitamin butter. If you are using good

yellow butter every day, and taking your cod liver oil, this is fine. Sally

my comment: Sally's great but Dr. Price did not think so. He

repeatedly says that butter *oil* and cod liver oil *combined* are

much more effective than either alone. He also says on several

occasions that butter *oil* and not butter is more effective and

powerful. Personally I think this is why there has been a drift among

some towards rather large doses of cod liver oil, because of the

unavailability for so long and lack of emphasis on butter oil in WAPF.

###

In a message dated 5/21/03 2:32:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

opalv@h... writes:

What is x-factor oil and where can I buy it? Is it from organic

and pasturefed sources. Is there really an x-factor butter?

You can get x-factor centrifuged butter oil from Radiant Life. I ordered it

from Wetzel Farms, the producer, because they emailed me, but it is the same

product. I don't know if it is certified organic, but it is fully pastured

(or else it wouldn't be high in x-factor) and then is centrifuged, to get a

product that is 16 times more concentrated than the cream it was produced

from. This is was Dr. Price used in conjunction with cod liver oil. He

found neither to have the same powerful effect by themselves as they did in

combonation. This was produced last year for the first time since Price made

it himself in the 30s, and I just got my first bottle in the day before

yesterday.

Chris

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

###

Hope that helps.

--

" It is no crime to be ignorant of economics,

which is, after all, a specialized discipline

and one that most people consider to be a

'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible

to have a loud and vociferous opinion on

economic subjects while remaining in this

state of ignorance. "

-- Murray Rothbard

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Butter oil was centrifuged, high vitamin butter. If you are using good

> yellow butter every day, and taking your cod liver oil, this is fine. Sally

>

> my comment: Sally's great but Dr. Price did not think so.

Oops. That should have read " Sally is great but Dr.Price would have

disagreed with this. "

--

" It is no crime to be ignorant of economics,

which is, after all, a specialized discipline

and one that most people consider to be a

'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible

to have a loud and vociferous opinion on

economic subjects while remaining in this

state of ignorance. "

-- Murray Rothbard

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> Butter oil was centrifuged, high vitamin butter. If you are using good

> yellow butter every day, and taking your cod liver oil, this is fine. Sally

>

> my comment: Sally's great but Dr. Price did not think so. He

> repeatedly says that butter *oil* and cod liver oil *combined* are

> much more effective than either alone. He also says on several

> occasions that butter *oil* and not butter is more effective and

> powerful. Personally I think this is why there has been a drift among

> some towards rather large doses of cod liver oil, because of the

> unavailability for so long and lack of emphasis on butter oil in WAPF.

Sure, but is this evidence corrected for putative quantity of the

beneficial substance? If you're giving someone way more of this

substance in the form of concentrated butter oil, and their diet is

horrible to begin with, then of course you'd expect better results

than from giving a small amount via plain ol' butter. If we assumed

that 16x concentration number (what is that number, anyway?) was true,

1/2 tsp of butter oil would contain the same amount of the " factor " as

roughly 3 tbsp of raw butter. For many of us on this list, 3 tbsp of

butter daily is pretty much par for the course.

So my point is really just the same as 's-- there's no real need

for the stuff if you're already eating raw grass-fed butter.

It's interesting though that the fraction Price wanted was the

*liquid* oil at the top. Not what I would have expected. Surely that

implies something about the relative quantity of saturated fats in it.

So it seems to fit with the idea that saturated fats, while necessary

as the bulk of our fat calories, can't take the place of some really

crucial unsaturated fractions that, in such miniscule amounts (e.g.

CLO), make all the difference to health. Sorry, that turned into a

totally n sentence.

[Guest guest]

--- In , Furbish <efurbish@g...>

wrote:

> So my point is really just the same as 's-- there's no real need

> for the stuff if you're already eating raw grass-fed butter.

Wunderkind,

Please note I specified " excellent " butter, meaning WAP-quality--not

something come by casually.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 11/1/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

>

>

> > So my point is really just the same as 's-- there's no real need

> > for the stuff if you're already eating raw grass-fed butter.

>

>

>

> Wunderkind,

> Please note I specified " excellent " butter, meaning WAP-quality--not

> something come by casually.

> B.

yup, i should have said it more strongly

eric

[Guest guest]

THIS is great info. Thanks.

We have been using the X Factor, CLO and Coconut Oil (all from Green

Pastures - okayed with WPF in Wash.) for about a month now. Nothing

to report yet, but good to have WP's own info. on it all.

Lynne

____________

On Oct 31, 2005, at 8:15 PM, wrote:

>

> Some quotes from from Weston Price and previous posts regarding

> butter oil:

>

> " I have found in these studies that, in the

> control of dental caries, while the consumption of whole butter is an

> aid in mineral metabolism, greater potency may be obtained by melting

> a high vitamin butter and allowing it to crystallize for twenty-four

> hours at a temperature of about 70 degrees. It is then centrifuged,

> and, under the process, it separates into an oil that is liquid at

> that temperature, with a solid crystalline layer below. This oil is

> much higher in the activating factor than the whole butter. "

>

> Weston Price

>

--

Lynne Muelle

lynne@...

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/05, Furbish <efurbish@...> wrote:

> So you're saying that butter oil is less than just the oil fraction of

> butter? The argument being something similar to that for high-vitamin

> CLO, where nutrients concentrate at the very bottom of the tank?

> Because ghee can't be much other than the butterfat itself, since

> there isn't any liquid or other solids. Of course it's cooked etc,

> but my example was really just to estimate volume.

Yes, exactly. If that was not the issue, I find it difficult to

believe that Price would have bothered at all to make it! Removing

the milk solids only removes about 11% of the butter, so in terms of

nutrient-density it is quite definitely not worth the process of

melting it, crystallizing it, and centrifuging it with expensive

equipment.

> Is this concentration what they claim to be doing? I'll do some

> searching sometime, but if anyone has info on what their process

> supposedly is, that'd be useful. Somehow I doubt they're really just

> taking 1/16th of the whole gob of oil, but maybe I'm wrong.

I assume, but don't know for sure, that they use Price's procedure,

described in _NAPD_.

> Are you sure they're not saying it's 16x more concentrated than

> *milk*? That seems to roughly work out for my typical ratios.

No, it's for cream. I think I made a mistake by saying it was for

butter before.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

[Guest guest]

-

>Of course the claim is that it's specifically fast-growing spring/fall

>grass, but so what?

The original Price claim is that it's a specific oil fraction of the

overall fat content of the butter, and that the oil fraction

concentrates certain important nutrients including Activator

X. However, Green Pastures makes their " butter oil " by a rather

different process, and when I bought a jar awhile back, it was solid

at room temperature. I don't see any point in spending absurd

amounts of money on this supposed butter oil until many questions

have been answered conclusively -- if then.

-

[Guest guest]

.... However, Green Pastures makes their " butter oil " by a rather

> different process, and when I bought a jar awhile back, it was solid

> at room temperature...

,

Huh. Not saying that I'm convinced by Green Pastures butter oil, but

what I've purchased from them is not solid at room temperature--were

you keeping yours in your bedroom, by chance?

B.

[Guest guest]

-

>Huh. Not saying that I'm convinced by Green Pastures butter oil, but

>what I've purchased from them is not solid at room temperature--were

>you keeping yours in your bedroom, by chance?

No, just the kitchen, but I admit I don't remember the season, and my

kitchen is neither heated (except by the stove and oven) nor air conditioned.

-