Re: recent improvement in genital anesthesia in long term PSSD sufferer

[Guest guest]

That's great. Thanks for sharing.

http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=40 & m=16300

NOW has a 1mg Melatonin tablet (saves cutting up the 3mg tablet).

Now Foods, Melatonin, Two Stage Release, 1 mg, 250 Tablets

Supplement Facts

Supplement Facts

Serving Size 1 Tablet

Amount Per Serving

% Daily Value

Niacin (as Niacinamide)

100 mg

500%

Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine HCl)

5 mg

250%

Magnesium (from Magnesium Citrate)

40 mg

10%

Melatonin

1 mg

†

>> I am a long term (female) member of this group and very long term PSSD sufferer. I've not posted in several years, but have continued to read postings and keep up with this worthwhile group. My history is in the data base. I had a recent experience of normal genital sensation and orgasm that I wanted to share. > > With only minor fluctuations, I've had about 90% genital anesthesia, nearly pleasureless orgasm, and nearly absent libido since discontinuing Prozac in 1995. I've also had insomnia since discontinuing Prozac, and that has so worsened in the past few years as I have approached menopause, that sleep has become more of an immediate concern than my lost sexuality. The two probems have seemed somehow related though, in that both my lack of ability to become sexually aroused and not being able to sleep seem to have something to do with not being able to shut down my sympathetic nervous system to fully relax-- I nearly always seem to be in a hyped up fight-or-flight state, despite being exhausted. Before Prozac, I never had these problems-- I was relaxed, slept whenever I wanted to, and was easily sexually aroused. > > I recently went back to trying melatonin for sleep. In the past, I had tried it at a standard dose of 3 mg. and found that it made me feel nearly intoxicated for 24 hours without helping me sleep at all. However I recently read about the use of microdoses of melatonin for sleep. I've been cutting up a 3 mg tablet (of rapid release formula) into forths, and taking that 3 or 4 nights a week over the past month with a very beneficial effect on my sleep. Most surprisingly, in the past week I've begun to experience some return of normal genital sensation. I've also been able to achieve something of a normal build up of arousal and an orgasm that is of an intensity that is worth the trouble.>

[Guest guest]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10713287

[Guest guest]

Thanks for those interesting and validating links, csln223. Looks like there

really may be something to low dose melatonin for PSSD.

>

>

>

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10713287

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10713287>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting. This is very intriguing. I've read at least one account

of someone who experienced melatonin downregulation due to supplementing it. For

a couple of days, he couldn't sleep anymore or only slept very badly, I don't

remember which. Luckily, the pituitary picked up again after some time. I don't

know how likely this is to happen and I'm not suggesting melatonin is

potentially detrimental, but it might be worth doing some research in that

direction.

Best

teephos

[Guest guest]

Congratulations on your improvement. Its been nearly a couple of weeks since you have started seeing improvements? Please keep us posted about your continued improvement.

Subject: recent improvement in genital anesthesia in long term PSSD suffererTo: SSRIsex Date: Sunday, May 23, 2010, 8:01 PM

I am a long term (female) member of this group and very long term PSSD sufferer. I've not posted in several years, but have continued to read postings and keep up with this worthwhile group. My history is in the data base. I had a recent experience of normal genital sensation and orgasm that I wanted to share. With only minor fluctuations, I've had about 90% genital anesthesia, nearly pleasureless orgasm, and nearly absent libido since discontinuing Prozac in 1995. I've also had insomnia since discontinuing Prozac, and that has so worsened in the past few years as I have approached menopause, that sleep has become more of an immediate concern than my lost sexuality. The two probems have seemed somehow related though, in that both my lack of ability to become sexually aroused and not being able to sleep seem to have something to do with not being able to shut down my sympathetic nervous system to fully relax-- I nearly always seem to be in a

hyped up fight-or-flight state, despite being exhausted. Before Prozac, I never had these problems-- I was relaxed, slept whenever I wanted to, and was easily sexually aroused. I recently went back to trying melatonin for sleep. In the past, I had tried it at a standard dose of 3 mg. and found that it made me feel nearly intoxicated for 24 hours without helping me sleep at all. However I recently read about the use of microdoses of melatonin for sleep. I've been cutting up a 3 mg tablet (of rapid release formula) into forths, and taking that 3 or 4 nights a week over the past month with a very beneficial effect on my sleep. Most surprisingly, in the past week I've begun to experience some return of normal genital sensation. I've also been able to achieve something of a normal build up of arousal and an orgasm that is of an intensity that is worth the trouble.

[Guest guest]

Melatonin can shrink the gonads but I reckon in small dosages 3 to 4 times week it won't do much harm, although I'm no expert. Anyway, I'm going to have a go.

Melatonin warning:

http://www.thewellnessdoc.com/resources/vitamins/Melatonin.asp

There has been some great posts recently along the lines that I have been saying - get some good sleep, get happy, and lower your stress levels. Remember, PSSD is very stressful so try to stop getting so upset and glum about it and get back into what you used to enjoy doing. Right, I'm getting back to my guitar and keyboards now, and at the weekend I'm going for a meal out on Friday night and then dancing Saturday night with my girlfriend (Swing, Lindy Hop, Rock & Roll).

Kaivey

>> Thank you for posting. This is very intriguing. I've read at least one account of someone who experienced melatonin downregulation due to supplementing it. For a couple of days, he couldn't sleep anymore or only slept very badly, I don't remember which. Luckily, the pituitary picked up again after some time. I don't know how likely this is to happen and I'm not suggesting melatonin is potentially detrimental, but it might be worth doing some research in that direction. > > Best> teephos>

[Guest guest]

An article on micro dosages of melatonin:

Extract:

To achieve physiologically normal levels of melatonin in the blood an oral dose should be around 0.1 to 0.2 mg (100 – 200 mcg). This will produce levels mimicing those normally present in the body.

I put around 125mcg (0.125mg) of melatonin in liquid form in a glass of water and sip small amounts of it for an hour or two before bed. I probably get only around 25-50mcg (less than half a glass) in total. I'm not sure if this is helping yet (and even such a low dose may have made me more lethargic at times).

http://delayed2sleep.wordpress.com/2010/04/11/melatonin-less-is-sometimes-more/

Kaivey

>> I am a long term (female) member of this group and very long term PSSD sufferer. I've not posted in several years, but have continued to read postings and keep up with this worthwhile group. My history is in the data base. I had a recent experience of normal genital sensation and orgasm that I wanted to share. > > With only minor fluctuations, I've had about 90% genital anesthesia, nearly pleasureless orgasm, and nearly absent libido since discontinuing Prozac in 1995. I've also had insomnia since discontinuing Prozac, and that has so worsened in the past few years as I have approached menopause, that sleep has become more of an immediate concern than my lost sexuality. The two probems have seemed somehow related though, in that both my lack of ability to become sexually aroused and not being able to sleep seem to have something to do with not being able to shut down my sympathetic nervous system to fully relax-- I nearly always seem to be in a hyped up fight-or-flight state, despite being exhausted. Before Prozac, I never had these problems-- I was relaxed, slept whenever I wanted to, and was easily sexually aroused. > > I recently went back to trying melatonin for sleep. In the past, I had tried it at a standard dose of 3 mg. and found that it made me feel nearly intoxicated for 24 hours without helping me sleep at all. However I recently read about the use of microdoses of melatonin for sleep. I've been cutting up a 3 mg tablet (of rapid release formula) into forths, and taking that 3 or 4 nights a week over the past month with a very beneficial effect on my sleep. Most surprisingly, in the past week I've begun to experience some return of normal genital sensation. I've also been able to achieve something of a normal build up of arousal and an orgasm that is of an intensity that is worth the trouble.>

[Guest guest]

I took melatonin last night 1 mg, had pretty deep sleep, I had a very not erotic

dream but falling in love dream, which felt wonderful and happy, also i woke up

way too early not feeling tired, I dont know if this is a good sign or not but I

feel very refreshed and normal right now. I might have to go back sleep soon but

last night before sleep when i took melatonin, I had pretty good orgasm, but

recently I have been doing pretty good in the orgasming department without

melatonin but it defintely was noticeable.

> >

> > Thank you for posting. This is very intriguing. I've read at least one

> account of someone who experienced melatonin downregulation due to

> supplementing it. For a couple of days, he couldn't sleep anymore or

> only slept very badly, I don't remember which. Luckily, the pituitary

> picked up again after some time. I don't know how likely this is to

> happen and I'm not suggesting melatonin is potentially detrimental, but

> it might be worth doing some research in that direction.

> >

> > Best

> > teephos

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ok now that feeling is gone but still drowsy. This is where Im confused. If the

mice study indicates that melatonin might increase sexual activity by

antagonizing 5-HT(2A),Do we have hypersensitized serotonin recepters still ? But

also not producing enough melatonin also indicates we are not converting enough

trpytophan into serotonin and eventually to melatonin.

> >

> > Thank you for posting. This is very intriguing. I've read at least one

> account of someone who experienced melatonin downregulation due to

> supplementing it. For a couple of days, he couldn't sleep anymore or

> only slept very badly, I don't remember which. Luckily, the pituitary

> picked up again after some time. I don't know how likely this is to

> happen and I'm not suggesting melatonin is potentially detrimental, but

> it might be worth doing some research in that direction.

> >

> > Best

> > teephos

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Velden, thanks for accurately sharing these important observations! I would be

very pleased to read more from you in this group.

Were there any other possible factors that may have contributed to your PSSD

improvement? Like a love romance of other new medications, a new oral

contraceptive, diet change, new job, changes in sexual behavior, etc?

Your sexual improvements might theoretically be directly caused by the melatonin

or indirectly by the fact that you sleep better. But it is also possible that

there is no causal relationship with the melatonin and that this is just a

coincidence and that your improvements are caused by other unknown factors.

Because this experiment is not yet repeated.

Would you please stop taking the melatonin for one week after a month and see if

the PSSD aggravates? And if so, would you start taking the melatonin again after

that week? That experiment may produce important information about a possible

causal relationship between melatonin therapy and your PSSD improvements.

It seems very important that more PSSD sufferers experiment with melatonin in

different doses as a possible cure for PSSD. Of course should one read about

melatonin first.

Has anybody else observed any possible PSSD improvement after use of melatonin?

> I recently went back to trying melatonin for sleep. In the past, I had tried

it at a standard dose of 3 mg. and found that it made me feel nearly intoxicated

for 24 hours without helping me sleep at all. However I recently read about the

use of microdoses of melatonin for sleep. I've been cutting up a 3 mg tablet (of

rapid release formula) into forths, and taking that 3 or 4 nights a week over

the past month with a very beneficial effect on my sleep. Most surprisingly, in

the past week I've begun to experience some return of normal genital sensation.

I've also been able to achieve something of a normal build up of arousal and an

orgasm that is of an intensity that is worth the trouble.

>

[Guest guest]

I appreciate the interest, encouragement, and thoughtful questions about my

experience of a PSSD improvement with microdoses of melatonin.

I feel that I can pretty confidently attribute my improvement to the melatonin,

but I imagine getting a good night's sleep may also have added something. It is

rare that I have slept well over the past five years. But I've lived with PSSD

since 1995(I hope that doesn't discourage or scare members), and slept

adequately for the first ten years.

My life is pretty stable--so there is nothing new I can pin point other than the

melatonin: I've been monogomous and in the same very positive love relationship

for ten years with a partner who I find attractive; maintain a masturbatory life

(my experience of PSSD- relief happened while I was in the bath washing with a

hand held shower. I was totally floored to notice that when I sprayed my

genitals, they responded not with feeling like cardboard as usual but with an

intense sexual sensation I'd not experienced in years); I've been in the same

job for twenty years; exercise very regularly; eat mostly organic; maintain a

stable weight; take vitimin D, niacin (to lower cholesterol), and fish oil. I

use a rotating array of preparations for sleep--amino acids (i.e L-tryptophan or

5 HTP), or rx meds (Ambien or occasional very low dose benzos-- which if

anything make PSSD worse and leave me cognitively impaired). For the past month

the only thing I've been taking for sleep is melatonin. Over the years I've had

only one other respite from PSSD that was similar, and that didn't last beyond a

day. That was when I was taking a low dose oral selegiline and briefly stropped

it (I have a good physician who believes me about my PSSD, and though she

doesn't know what to do to help she will prescribe for me what ever I think may

help as long as I can back it up with a clear rationale). Though I went back on

and off selegeline, I had no further improvement and eventually it severely

interfered with sleep and I discontinued it.

I will do the best I can with an ABA (n of 1)trial --on/off/on melatonin as

stevehazek suggests. Unfortunately, since I sometimes go entire nights without

sleeping at all, or only getting a couple hours sleep, I may need to resort to

something else to help me sleep, which would be a confound.

> > I recently went back to trying melatonin for sleep. In the past, I had

tried it at a standard dose of 3 mg. and found that it made me feel nearly

intoxicated for 24 hours without helping me sleep at all. However I recently

read about the use of microdoses of melatonin for sleep. I've been cutting up a

3 mg tablet (of rapid release formula) into forths, and taking that 3 or 4

nights a week over the past month with a very beneficial effect on my sleep.

Most surprisingly, in the past week I've begun to experience some return of

normal genital sensation. I've also been able to achieve something of a normal

build up of arousal and an orgasm that is of an intensity that is worth the

trouble.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

way2recovery, I am concerned that even 1 mg melatonin may be too much. From the

studies I am reading and others are posting, less is more with melatonin, and

there may be reason to wory that more may have negative sexual effects. Go easy

and take good care.

> > >

> > > Thank you for posting. This is very intriguing. I've read at least one

> > account of someone who experienced melatonin downregulation due to

> > supplementing it. For a couple of days, he couldn't sleep anymore or

> > only slept very badly, I don't remember which. Luckily, the pituitary

> > picked up again after some time. I don't know how likely this is to

> > happen and I'm not suggesting melatonin is potentially detrimental, but

> > it might be worth doing some research in that direction.

> > >

> > > Best

> > > teephos

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for the heads up. It seems that it can increase liver enzymes as well.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090316144240AAv6yFN

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for posting. This is very intriguing. I've read at least one

> > > account of someone who experienced melatonin downregulation due to

> > > supplementing it. For a couple of days, he couldn't sleep anymore or

> > > only slept very badly, I don't remember which. Luckily, the pituitary

> > > picked up again after some time. I don't know how likely this is to

> > > happen and I'm not suggesting melatonin is potentially detrimental, but

> > > it might be worth doing some research in that direction.

> > > >

> > > > Best

> > > > teephos

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So, how long did this improvement last? Is it consistent or only during that one incident?Subject: Re: recent improvement in genital anesthesia in long term PSSD suffererTo: SSRIsex Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 3:01 AM

I appreciate the interest, encouragement, and thoughtful questions about my experience of a PSSD improvement with microdoses of melatonin.

I feel that I can pretty confidently attribute my improvement to the melatonin, but I imagine getting a good night's sleep may also have added something. It is rare that I have slept well over the past five years. But I've lived with PSSD since 1995(I hope that doesn't discourage or scare members), and slept adequately for the first ten years.

My life is pretty stable--so there is nothing new I can pin point other than the melatonin: I've been monogomous and in the same very positive love relationship for ten years with a partner who I find attractive; maintain a masturbatory life (my experience of PSSD- relief happened while I was in the bath washing with a hand held shower. I was totally floored to notice that when I sprayed my genitals, they responded not with feeling like cardboard as usual but with an intense sexual sensation I'd not experienced in years); I've been in the same job for twenty years; exercise very regularly; eat mostly organic; maintain a stable weight; take vitimin D, niacin (to lower cholesterol), and fish oil. I use a rotating array of preparations for sleep--amino acids (i.e L-tryptophan or 5 HTP), or rx meds (Ambien or occasional very low dose benzos-- which if anything make PSSD worse and leave me cognitively impaired). For the past month the only thing I've been

taking for sleep is melatonin. Over the years I've had only one other respite from PSSD that was similar, and that didn't last beyond a day. That was when I was taking a low dose oral selegiline and briefly stropped it (I have a good physician who believes me about my PSSD, and though she doesn't know what to do to help she will prescribe for me what ever I think may help as long as I can back it up with a clear rationale). Though I went back on and off selegeline, I had no further improvement and eventually it severely interfered with sleep and I discontinued it.

I will do the best I can with an ABA (n of 1)trial --on/off/on melatonin as stevehazek suggests. Unfortunately, since I sometimes go entire nights without sleeping at all, or only getting a couple hours sleep, I may need to resort to something else to help me sleep, which would be a confound.

> > I recently went back to trying melatonin for sleep. In the past, I had tried it at a standard dose of 3 mg. and found that it made me feel nearly intoxicated for 24 hours without helping me sleep at all. However I recently read about the use of microdoses of melatonin for sleep. I've been cutting up a 3 mg tablet (of rapid release formula) into forths, and taking that 3 or 4 nights a week over the past month with a very beneficial effect on my sleep. Most surprisingly, in the past week I've begun to experience some return of normal genital sensation. I've also been able to achieve something of a normal build up of arousal and an orgasm that is of an intensity that is worth the trouble.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Velden,

Congratulations. If melatonin would indeed be the key to your sexual

improvement, this is very important information. And there is some experimental

evidence that low dose melatonin administration in rats enhances their sexual

performance. So melatonin might indeed be a cure for your PSSD.

For your personal interest it seems safest to keep using the melatonin untill

your PSSD has diminished over a longer time, like six months. Then you could try

an experimental treatment scheme like you described, for scientific reasons. For

example one month on melatonin and one week off. Or one month 0.3 mg melatonin

per day and one month 1 mg per day. You can cut or scrape your tablets with a

knife.

Please keep a systematic daily record of your sexual performance and daily

treatment during this experiment.

Many alternative non pharmacological sleep treatments can be found on the

internet, like meditation and physical work or exercise outside. Also cognitive

behavioral therapy may help for sleep problems. And try to read a nice novel in

your bed.

All the best.

> I feel that I can pretty confidently attribute my improvement to the

melatonin, but I imagine getting a good night's sleep may also have added

something. (...)

> I will do the best I can with an ABA (n of 1)trial --on/off/on melatonin as

stevehazek suggests. Unfortunately, since I sometimes go entire nights without

sleeping at all, or only getting a couple hours sleep, I may need to resort to

something else to help me sleep, which would be a confound.

[Guest guest]

Steve, Your point about ruling out other possible causes for the change is important, and woke me up this morning. Your concern applies to ANY anecdotally reported improvement in sexual performance. I've been lurking a bit here, and have been a bit concerned about the casualness with which supplements are discussed. Supplements are chemicals, just as are SSRIs. Supplements are often assumed to be safe because they are natural. Amanita phalloides is quite natural, but quite deadly. (aka Death Cap). Nature does not equal safe. Nutritional supplements are a HUGE business. In the USA, given a horribly lax law introduced in 1992, nutritional supplement manufacturers are allowed to make "structure/function claims. These are broad claims that the product can support the structure or function of the body (e.g., "glucosamine helps support healthy joints", "the hormone melatonin helps establish normal sleep patterns")" - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_supplement#Permissible_claims, cited 5/26/2010. Manufacturers are supposed to provide documentation of claims, but in practice, seldom do until a complaint is filed. The FDA does NOT have the teeth to enforce. From the same wiki page : "If a dietary supplement claims to cure, mitigate, or treat a disease, it would be considered an unauthorized new drug and in violation of the applicable regulations and statutes."The research cited in this thread seems to support the reported outcome, but, as you say, it's important to understand that there are any number of other things that can contribute to improved or changed sexual performance. For all the heat the scientific method gets when it suggests that people be careful in attributing an effect to a specific cause, it IS the best method we have for now to make sure that we don't succumb to assorted confounds that bite us even if we know they exist. And science seems fickle, changing findings frequently — as one of my mentors says "It's not that science can be relied on to always provide the Truth. We've all been jerked and pulled by the capricious findings of science too many times to be so naïve. I mean, until they make up their minds about chocolate, coffee and red wine, count me in. Scientists themselves concede that a fact is only a fact until it's replaced by a better one." The suggestion to stop and start the treatment again provides some modicum of control, and might be useful to rule out any number of other items that might have been in play. Two other important things would help isolate the impact of melatonin on sexuality. First, a group of PSSD sufferers should be asked to keep diaries recording level of libido. Some of the people should not take any treatment whatsoever, the remaining people should receive a treatment - half of those receiving a treatment should get melatonin, the other half should get a sugar pill. After comparing the diaries over time, it might be possible to isolate melatonin as the cause of an increase in libido/sexuality. Do the people who take received melatonin report any change in libido/sexuality? And if yes, is it any different from those who received the sugar pill, or those who received nothing? (For chuckles, it would be great to throw in a sample of people who have NOT taken SSRIs, and even some who have not had sexual problems. (To make things completely safe and sane, everyone should get before and after blood panels to track levels of hormones and neurotransmitters)). If a relationship is found, it would be ok to cautiously draw a conclusion, then ask other people to repeat the experiment. Self-reporting is something of a conundrum, as is the very real and well documented "placebo effect." Subject/experimenter hopes can introduce an "expectation" bias. Passage of time, other causes can cause an impact. Even believing a particular treatment will do thus and such can cause thus and such to happen. Remember the example of a city who wants to outlaw ice cream sales because someone noted that drowning deaths directly responded to sale of ice cream. (Of course, during the summer, people both eat more ice cream and spend more time in the water). At any rate, again, the cited research indicates there may well be a causal relationship between melatonin and some aspect of sexuality. I am ALSO somewhat convinced that some aspect of the sexual issues I am/we are experiencing are due to fulfilling my/our own expectations for failure — a vicious cycle, to be sure. I do, however, firmly believe that SSRIs suck, and are responsible for MOST of the sexual issues I/we all experience. And, I REALLY wish the medical establishment and the government would follow similar procedures before making claims about the efficacy and safety of SSRIs, and about their long-term dangers. The SSRI research is paltry, riddled with problems. Sample sizes too small. No long-term studies. Etc. I have to remind myself from time to time that all of us who took SSRIs, subsequently stopped them, and are stuck with very real sexual problems, fell victim to lax research and inadequate oversight. I was SO depressed, and SO anxious, that I WANTED to believe that Celexa would help me turn my life around. It DID help me turn my life around, though the cost is, as we know, unimaginably high. I have found success in my (non-sexual ) problems through Cognitive Behavior Therapy, as well as various forms of meditation.Prior to taking Celexa, I spent YEARS putting health-food-store/GNC products into my mouth. Kava Kava, DMSO, Ginsing, CoQ10, l-glutamine, Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate, Melatonin, Catnip, Homeopathy, Valerian root, Chinese Herbs, DHEA, and all manner of stuff concocted by the multi-billion dollar health food supplement industry. I delayed seeking treatment by the establishment for years, because I believed this stuff would work, and because I didn't believe the medical establishment would help. What DID happen is that I put off seeking treatment for 30 years, essentially flushed thousands of dollars of cash down the toilet, and suffered from increasingly dangerous depression and anxiety. I was ordered by my GP to seek treatment when my blood pressure became dangerously high. My experiences have had such a strong impact that I have begun seeking advanced degrees in behavioral psychology, and have made it a life goal to educate people on the importance of critical thinking. >> Your sexual improvements might theoretically be directly caused by the melatonin or indirectly by the fact that you sleep better. But it is also possible that there is no causal relationship with the melatonin and that this is just a coincidence and that your improvements are caused by other unknown factors. Because this experiment is not yet repeated.> > Would you please stop taking the melatonin for one week after a month and see if the PSSD aggravates? And if so, would you start taking the melatonin again after that week? That experiment may produce important information about a possible causal relationship between melatonin therapy and your PSSD improvements. >

[Guest guest]

dealing,it is difficult to read this, can you possibly re-post it not as one block?  I know that people's texts have been coming out in blocks even though they don't type them like that.I agree with the general point, I have learned to be wary of everything.  not paranoid, but just because something is in some "safe" category doesn't automatically mean it's safe at all.   I know a guy who had a stroke after visiting a reckless chiropractor!  Subject: Re: recent improvement in genital anesthesia in long term

PSSD suffererTo: SSRIsex Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 6:01 PM

 

Steve, Your point about ruling out other possible causes for the change is important, and woke me up this morning. Your concern applies to ANY anecdotally reported improvement in sexual performance. I've been lurking a bit here, and have been a bit concerned about the casualness with which supplements are discussed. Supplements are chemicals, just as are SSRIs. Supplements are often assumed to be safe because they are natural. Amanita phalloides is quite natural, but quite deadly. (aka Death Cap). Nature does not equal safe.  Nutritional supplements are

a HUGE business. In the USA, given a horribly lax law introduced in 1992, nutritional supplement manufacturers are allowed to make "structure/function claims. These are broad claims that the product can support the structure or function of the body (e.g., "glucosamine helps support healthy joints", "the hormone melatonin helps establish normal sleep patterns")" - from http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Dietary_suppleme nt#Permissible_ claims, cited 5/26/2010. Manufacturers are supposed to provide documentation of claims, but in practice, seldom do until a complaint is filed. The FDA does NOT have the teeth to enforce. From the same wiki page : "If a

dietary supplement claims to cure, mitigate, or treat a disease, it would be considered an unauthorized new drug and in violation of the applicable regulations and statutes."The research cited in this thread seems to support the reported outcome, but, as you say, it's important to understand that there are any number of other things that can contribute to improved or changed sexual performance. For all the heat the scientific method gets when it suggests that people be careful in attributing an effect to a specific cause, it IS the best method we have for now to make sure that we don't succumb to assorted confounds that bite us even if we know they exist. And science seems fickle, changing findings frequently — as one of my mentors says "It's not that science can be relied on to always provide the Truth. We've all been jerked and pulled by the capricious findings of science too many times to be so naïve. I mean, until they make

up their minds about chocolate, coffee and red wine, count me in. Scientists themselves concede that a fact is only a fact until it's replaced by a better one." The suggestion to stop and start the treatment again provides some modicum of control, and might be useful to rule out any number of other items that might have been in play. Two other important things would help isolate the impact of melatonin on sexuality. First, a group of PSSD sufferers should be asked to keep diaries recording level of libido. Some of the people should not take any treatment whatsoever, the remaining people should receive a treatment - half of those receiving a treatment should get melatonin, the other half should get a sugar pill. After comparing the diaries over time, it might be possible to isolate melatonin as the cause of an increase in libido/sexuality. Do the people who take received melatonin report any change in libido/sexuality? And if yes, is it any

different from those who received the sugar pill, or those who received nothing? (For chuckles, it would be great to throw in a sample of people who have NOT taken SSRIs, and even some who have not had sexual problems. (To make things completely safe and sane, everyone should get before and after blood panels to track levels of hormones and neurotransmitters) ). If a relationship is found, it would be ok to cautiously draw a conclusion, then ask other people to repeat the experiment. Self-reporting is something of a conundrum, as is the very real and well documented "placebo effect." Subject/experimente r hopes can introduce an "expectation" bias. Passage of time, other causes can cause an impact. Even believing a particular treatment will do thus and such can cause thus and such to happen. Remember the example of a city who wants to outlaw ice cream sales because someone noted that drowning deaths directly responded to sale of ice cream. (Of course,

during the summer, people both eat more ice cream and spend more time in the water). At any rate, again, the cited research indicates there may well be a causal relationship between melatonin and some aspect of sexuality. I am ALSO somewhat convinced that some aspect of the sexual issues I am/we are experiencing are due to fulfilling my/our own expectations for failure — a vicious cycle, to be sure. I do, however, firmly believe that SSRIs suck, and are responsible for MOST of the sexual issues I/we all experience. And, I REALLY wish the medical establishment and the government would follow similar procedures before making claims about the efficacy and safety of SSRIs, and about their long-term dangers. The SSRI research is paltry, riddled with problems. Sample sizes too small. No long-term studies. Etc. I have to remind myself from time to time that all of us who took SSRIs, subsequently stopped them, and are stuck with very real sexual problems,

fell victim to lax research and inadequate oversight. I was SO depressed, and SO anxious, that I WANTED to believe that Celexa would help me turn my life around. It DID help me turn my life around, though the cost is, as we know, unimaginably high. I have found success in my (non-sexual ) problems through Cognitive Behavior Therapy, as well as various forms of meditation.Prior to taking Celexa, I spent YEARS putting health-food- store/GNC products into my mouth. Kava Kava, DMSO, Ginsing, CoQ10, l-glutamine, Acetyl-L-Carnitine Arginate, Melatonin, Catnip, Homeopathy, Valerian root, Chinese Herbs, DHEA, and all manner of stuff concocted by the multi-billion dollar health food supplement industry. I delayed seeking treatment by the establishment for years, because I believed this stuff would work, and because I didn't believe the medical establishment would help. What DID happen is that I put off seeking treatment for 30 years, essentially flushed

thousands of dollars of cash down the toilet, and suffered from increasingly dangerous depression and anxiety. I was ordered by my GP to seek treatment when my blood pressure became dangerously high. My experiences have had such a strong impact that I have begun seeking advanced degrees in behavioral psychology, and have made it a life goal to educate people on the importance of critical thinking. >> Your sexual improvements might theoretically be directly caused by the melatonin or indirectly by the fact that you sleep better. But it is also possible that there is no causal relationship with the melatonin and that this is just a coincidence and that your improvements are caused by other unknown factors. Because this experiment is not yet repeated.> > Would you please stop taking the melatonin for one week after a month and see if the PSSD aggravates? And if so, would you start

taking the melatonin again after that week? That experiment may produce important information about a possible causal relationship between melatonin therapy and your PSSD improvements. >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your interesting reply. Careful experimentation is necessary indeed.

And being an internet discusion group, we could start a rudimentary experiment

with a promising PSSD treatment.

Experimentation starts with finding likely hypotheses. Melatonin as a cure for

PSSD might be one of them.

I hope to read more from you. And it would be great if you would start your own

PSSD weblog. You could invite scientists, journalists and politicians to visit

it.

The suggestion to stop and

> start the treatment again provides some modicum of control, and might be

> useful to rule out any number of other items that might have been in

> play. Two other important things would help isolate the impact of

> melatonin on sexuality. First, a group of PSSD sufferers should be asked

> to keep diaries recording level of libido. Some of the people should not

> take any treatment whatsoever, the remaining people should receive a

> treatment - half of those receiving a treatment should get melatonin,

> the other half should get a sugar pill. After comparing the diaries over

> time, it might be possible to isolate melatonin as the cause of an

> increase in libido/sexuality. Do the people who take received melatonin

> report any change in libido/sexuality? And if yes, is it any different

> from those who received the sugar pill, or those who received nothing?

(...)

> I have found success in my (non-sexual ) problems through Cognitive

> Behavior Therapy, as well as various forms of meditation.

[Guest guest]

Heres something interesting on this site. Maybe melatonin and serotonin have

inverse relationship. Not sure if they are all true but I think they are worth

while to look at.

http://www.causeof.org/topics_sero.htm#SerotoninEffectsLow

Theres also a palming technique to help reduce serotonin and increase melatonin

http://www.causeof.org/bates_palming.htm

And also heres a website that says these special made glasses made to block

bluelights ,which inhibits melatonin during the day, increases fertility

http://www.naturalnews.com/019782.html

someone's post about the use of melatonin supplement and the glasses.

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/message-boards/viewtopic.php?t=17006 & sid=68a6f39c0\

\2ea185d93ae64d8805efbdf

----------------------------------------

Serotonin and Melatonin

Relationship

" Melatonin is manufactured from serotonin. When melatonin levels increase,

serotonin levels usually decrease, since more serotonin is converted to

melatonin. "

Book: Somer, , M.A., R.D. Food & Mood. Henry Holt and Company, LLC,

1999.

Exposure to Light

" …exposure to light lowers melatonin levels and increases serotonin levels. "

Book: Somer, , M.A., R.D. Food & Mood. Henry Holt and Company, LLC,

1999.

Palming

The `palming' exercise can be helpful for people, who are exposed to too much

light (e.g. from computer monitors) and have too much serotonin in their system,

by decreasing serotonin levels and increasing melatonin levels.

------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

As the individual who provided the anecdotal report of improvement in genital

anestheisa coinciding with a month of intermittent low dose melatonin, I

appreciate the cautions 'dealingwithit' raised. I am not advocating to anyone

that they try melatonin. If you do try melatonin you must do your own research,

keeping in mind the limits of the literature. Melatonin is a hormone-- and any

time you supplement a hormone you run the risk of interfering with your body's

own natural production of it. We are all vulnerable to false hope, to acting

rashly and potentially adding to our problems due to the desire to be relieved

of a lonely and challenging condition.

>

> What I want to do is be an accurate reporter of my own experience. A strength

of this site is that individuals with similar conditions can share experiences

re: whatever they are doing to try to heal. Since no one I am aware of is doing

research on PSSD, and that is unlikely to happen soon, our own anecdotal

reports are currently the best available source of information about an

intractable problem the medical establishment does not even recognize. So lets

keep responsibly sharing our experiences. Cumulative anecdotal reports may

eventually lead us somewhere.

>

> I want to emphasize that I am not 'cured'. My experience with melatonin seems

to have coincided with increased genital sensation and pleasure with orgasm that

has been sustained for over a week now. I have had no changes in libido which

remains extremely low. It remains to be seen if the recent changes will be

sustained over the longer run. It is worth noting too, that if I stop, taper

off, or cycle on and off the melatonin and the changes are sustained (which is

of course my hope-- to somehow 'resensitize' receptors presumably damaged by an

SSRI) that does not mean the changes were not due to melatonin. As we all know

here, withdrawal of a medication does not necessarily mean that all side effects

attributable to that medication will go away. I have also been taking vitimin

D (400 I.U. daily) since January. I have been taking it becasue it helps with

calcium absorption-- it did not occur to me that it could help PSSD. However

csln23's recent post linked to information that vitimin D may increase nitric

oxide synthesis and dopamine production--- so now I have to wonder whether

vitimin D had led to my change in sensation.

>

>> Your

> sexual improvements might theoretically be directly caused by the

> melatonin or indirectly by the fact that you sleep better. But it is

> also possible that there is no causal relationship with the melatonin

> and that this is just a coincidence and that your improvements are

> caused by other unknown factors. Because this experiment is not yet

> repeated.> > Would you please stop taking the melatonin for one week

> after a month and see if the PSSD aggravates? And if so, would you start

> taking the melatonin again after that week? That experiment may produce

> important information about a possible causal relationship between

> melatonin therapy and your PSSD improvements. >

>