RE: Juicers was Acid/Basic foods

[Guest guest]

Hi Suze,

I ran across this study when doing some digging after reading your post.

Thought you might find it interesting if you haven't seen it already.

http://www.hacres.com/Juice_Extractor_Comparison.pdf

Ron

> I have a Norwalk (based on the work of Norman ) juicer which is

> extremely expensive, but when I was told that cancer patients

> were more apt

> to recover using this juicer than any other (this statement

> was *not* from

> the juicer company),I felt I should invest the money. I think

> it produces

> the most fiber-free juice, which means less stress on the

> digestive system

> in absorbing the nutrients.

[Guest guest]

RBJR,

That was my post, not Suze's. I also looked at many comparison charts from

many companies wanting to sell juicers, and I first tried to save money by

going to a twin-gear--which was frustrating to work with and to clean. I

finally went with the experience of the Gerson people, who have been

successfully treating cancer and other diseases for decades. They didn't

know why the Norwalk had proven better than anything else out there. The

more-fiber-free idea was mine.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry I mis-credited the post. The flow is so high here on this list that I

tend to read things quickly. I guess if I'm going to take the time to

comment I should make sure that I'm getting it right.

This thread and your comments have been interesting to me since I recently

discovered -- much to my amazement -- that non sugary vegetable juice

actually makes me feel very, very good. I spend a lot of time fighting

blood sugar instability and had relegated my Juiceman II to the back shelf

for the past couple of years. Last month I did a 7 day detoxifying cleanse

using various herbs and other supplements with my only food being

celery/cucumber juice with a few carrots or some spinach mixed in. I was

drinking about 2 gallons of juice a day and it made me feel fantastic. My

body felt rock solid at all times and my constant up and down energy cycles

were gone.

I was completely floored that a purely carbohydrate diet could make me feel

like that. I am a hard protein type on the metabolic typing scale. I still

don't understand it and am trying to sort everything out and try to figure

out how to integrate juices into my normal low carb NT type regimen. I'm

also wondering how something as un-natural as juicing can be healthy in the

long term. Perhaps it is simply the fact the foods we are juicing are so

depleted as compared to the natural vitamin and mineral content of the foods

we would have eaten natively that it's the only way to get the needed

nutrients? I don't know and am interested in other opinions. What I do

know is that I felt spectacularly good when I was drinking lots of juice

from a source that had a very low carbohydrate density.

I had never heard of the Norwalk juicer before (despite years of juicing off

and on) and appreciated your mentioning it. My interpretation of the study

data is that you can pay your money up front for the juicer and get a very

high nutrient density out of your fruit and vegetables or you can buy a

cheap juicer and pay your money for double the number of vegetables to get

the same amount of nutrient. I thought the breakdown of enzyme

concentration over time in the fridge was very interesting. At least for

the two enzymes looked at there was no real degradation with most of the

juicers. Certainly not as much as the conventional wisdom on juicing seems

to suggest. I have been storing my juice in a Vacuum Saver container which

I'm sure helps even more.

Ron

> That was my post, not Suze's. I also looked at many

> comparison charts from

> many companies wanting to sell juicers, and I first tried to

> save money by

> going to a twin-gear--which was frustrating to work with and

> to clean. I

> finally went with the experience of the Gerson people, who have been

> successfully treating cancer and other diseases for decades.

> They didn't

> know why the Norwalk had proven better than anything else out

> there. The

> more-fiber-free idea was mine.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ron,

<I was completely floored that a purely carbohydrate diet could make me feel

like that.>

and

<I am a hard protein type on the metabolic typing scale. I still don't

understand it and am trying to sort everything out and try to figure out how

to integrate juices into my normal low carb NT type regimen. >

It sounds like this was a juice fast, with no other foods ingested. That

would be a real vacation for your digestive track and would likely make your

body very happy-for a while anyway. As for the fact that veggies are

carbs-well, yes, they are, but my own problems with carbs, whether grains or

veggies, has always been digestive, a response either to the starch or the

fiber. So veggie juice doesn't even " register " with me as carbs.

I'm not sure what you mean by " integrate. " I have my juice 3x a day, well

before each meal. I've managed in the past with as much as two quarts a

day, but that's been hard, so I don't know how you'd carry off 2 gallons if

tht's what you have in mind. Your body might not even be able to utilize so

many nutrients when you're eating as well.

< I'm also wondering how something as un-natural as juicing can be healthy

in the long term. Perhaps it is simply the fact the foods we are juicing

are so depleted as compared to the natural vitamin and mineral content of

the foods we would have eaten natively that it's the only way to get the

needed nutrients?>

I think that's likely part of it. Also, there's the idea that we may need

somewhat " unnatural " methods to deal with the highly unnatural pollutants

from our foods and our environment that sicken us. I have heard some people

claim that juicing is natural, carried on, to some degree, by animals who

chew on greens and then spit out the fiber. But I don't much care about the

arguments, not when I can see and feel the healing for myself.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> <I was completely floored that a purely carbohydrate diet

> could make me feel

> like that.>

>

> and

>

> <I am a hard protein type on the metabolic typing scale. I

> still don't

> understand it and am trying to sort everything out and try to

> figure out how

> to integrate juices into my normal low carb NT type regimen. >

>

>

>

> It sounds like this was a juice fast, with no other foods

> ingested.

Yes it was.

> That

> would be a real vacation for your digestive track and would

> likely make your

> body very happy-for a while anyway. As for the fact that veggies are

> carbs-well, yes, they are, but my own problems with carbs,

> whether grains or

> veggies, has always been digestive, a response either to the

> starch or the

> fiber. So veggie juice doesn't even " register " with me as carbs.

I hear you but I still don't understand it. My model for understanding how

I experience my food is related to blood sugar/insulin response and the

carbs in vegetable juice should be triggering that response. Peak and crash

in my system. They clearly do not and I now have to figure out how that can

be. If I drink any quantity of freshly squeezed or juiced fruit juice I

peak and crash badly.

>

>

>

> I'm not sure what you mean by " integrate. " I have my juice

> 3x a day, well

> before each meal. I've managed in the past with as much as

> two quarts a

> day, but that's been hard, so I don't know how you'd carry

> off 2 gallons if

> tht's what you have in mind. Your body might not even be

> able to utilize so

> many nutrients when you're eating as well.

I don't think I could afford 2 gallons a day. It's looking like I'm going

to drink 16 oz or so twice a day and see how that works.

>

>

>

> < I'm also wondering how something as un-natural as juicing

> can be healthy

> in the long term. Perhaps it is simply the fact the foods we

> are juicing

> are so depleted as compared to the natural vitamin and

> mineral content of

> the foods we would have eaten natively that it's the only way

> to get the

> needed nutrients?>

>

>

>

> I think that's likely part of it. Also, there's the idea

> that we may need

> somewhat " unnatural " methods to deal with the highly

> unnatural pollutants

> from our foods and our environment that sicken us. I have

> heard some people

> claim that juicing is natural, carried on, to some degree, by

> animals who

> chew on greens and then spit out the fiber. But I don't much

> care about the

> arguments, not when I can see and feel the healing for myself.

I have not experienced any observable healing from it but I can surely say

that it made me feel good. We'll see as things continue.

Ron

[Guest guest]

> <I was completely floored that a purely carbohydrate diet could make me

> feel

> like that.>

>

> and

>

> <I am a hard protein type on the metabolic typing scale. I still don't

> understand it and am trying to sort everything out and try to figure out

> how

> to integrate juices into my normal low carb NT type regimen. >

>

Ron,

Have had to reactivate my mail everyday this week so if I say something

unrelated its because I didn't read something prior. Protein metabolic types

burn carbohydrates fast and in large amounts, using up acetate, the protein

type energy source. The only fruit juice I can drink and is allowed by some

metabolic typing researchers is apple cider. Always sprinkle some Vietnamese

cinnamon from Penzey's on top as cinnamon regulates blood sugar. Protein

type non starchy veggies are spinach, mushrooms, celery, cauliflower, string

beans, avocado and asparagus, and starchy carrot. I drink nut milk daily.

Did question here Mercola's juicing articles, metabolic typing

differentiations and he being protein type.

Reasons for these limits are contrary to the widely held acidity/alkalinity

base beliefs. These protein type fruits and vegetables alkalinize toward

normal the blood plasma pH of the overly acidic protein type. Saliva and

urine pH do not agree with blood plasma pH. Earlier metabolic researchers

(Nutrition and Your Mind, Personality Strength and

Psychochemical Energy, both out of print) and Rudolf Wiley (Biobalance)did

the diet research. Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden by Wharton

profiles all metabolic and biochemical typing researchers findings with

tables summarizing in appendix.

Guessing whatever issues you had with the carbohydrate diet were

hypoglycemic. Think it was Wiley that found that all true hypoglycemics are

true protein types.

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

Hi Wanita,

Yes, you are correct that my issues were hypoglycemic. I found any of the

Metabolic Typing Diet non-approved fruits and vegetables tended to cause me

to peak and crash. And therein lies the problem -- on a juice fast in which

my total caloric intake for the day was entirely carbohydrate with no fat or

protein to speak of my body felt absolutely fantastic. Noticeably different

from the way I have felt for the past 30 years. I was drinking a

combination of celery juice which is approved for protein types and cucumber

juice which is not. And since the central underlying premise of Metabolic

Typing is that your body tells you which foods are good for it by making you

feel good after you eat them I'm really wondering if I should be drinking

veggie juice for the rest of my life. _That_ sure doesn't fit with

everything else I've read about what my type of body needs to thrive.

Thanks for the tip on the Wharton book. I've added it to the cart at

Amazon.

Ron

> Have had to reactivate my mail everyday this week so if I say

> something

> unrelated its because I didn't read something prior. Protein

> metabolic types

> burn carbohydrates fast and in large amounts, using up

> acetate, the protein

> type energy source. The only fruit juice I can drink and is

> allowed by some

> metabolic typing researchers is apple cider. Always sprinkle

> some Vietnamese

> cinnamon from Penzey's on top as cinnamon regulates blood

> sugar. Protein

> type non starchy veggies are spinach, mushrooms, celery,

> cauliflower, string

> beans, avocado and asparagus, and starchy carrot. I drink nut

> milk daily.

> Did question here Mercola's juicing articles, metabolic typing

> differentiations and he being protein type.

>

> Reasons for these limits are contrary to the widely held

> acidity/alkalinity

> base beliefs. These protein type fruits and vegetables

> alkalinize toward

> normal the blood plasma pH of the overly acidic protein type.

> Saliva and

> urine pH do not agree with blood plasma pH. Earlier metabolic

> researchers

> (Nutrition and Your Mind, Personality Strength and

> Psychochemical Energy, both out of print) and Rudolf Wiley

> (Biobalance)did

> the diet research. Metabolic Man, 10,000 Years from Eden by

> Wharton

> profiles all metabolic and biochemical typing researchers

> findings with

> tables summarizing in appendix.

>

> Guessing whatever issues you had with the carbohydrate diet were

> hypoglycemic. Think it was Wiley that found that all true

> hypoglycemics are

> true protein types.

>