Re: Anxiety Disorders (was Lance Armstrong & physical abilities)

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>I completely agree with you but we have a problem. There are people who's

>entire goal in life is to disprove this kind of thing and they get a lot of

>press. It's the " fear, uncertainty, doubt " method of stopping inquiry and

>creating distrust. It works.

There's definitely a FUD atmosphere out there, but it certainly hasn't

stopped all sorts of cranks from making all sorts of claims which are

relatively readily debunked. (I'm thinking in people who insist they've

" transcended " the need to eat, but that's just one example of many.) Why

would FUD affect people who can actually alter physical reality with 100%

effectiveness while allowing loads of crackpots through?

>One of my favorite guys to read is the one

>who debunks the paranormal in Scientific American magazine. He's far more

>religious than most of the fundamentalist Christians that I know. And much

>more aggressive about it.

The difference is that his positions are verifiable or falsifiable. But

extremism is hardly limited to religious fundamentalists, though I assure

you there are plenty of fundamentalists who give the SciAm a run for his

money and then some.

>So what you are saying here is that it is not possible for us to discuss our

>interior states with any kind of validity because it's untranslatable.

No, not exactly. I'm saying that ***IF*** our internal reality is entirely

unique and untranslatable, then meaningful communication is impossible.

However, I believe the scientific arguments in favor of many commonalities

of mind being necessary responses to the physical universe are very

convincing, and therefore a good deal of communication should be possible,

even between many potential alien species.

>If I tell you that I

>have a buzzing sensation on the left side of my head that can't be verified

>in any external way by any kind of observer. So in your world my buzzing

>sensation is uninteresting (to you) because it's untranslatable and has no

>generalized meaning. What that ends up meaning is that you and I place less

>value on subjective mental phenomena than we do on things that can be

>defined as physical universe objects.

Well, see above, but besides that, I think it's reasonable to assume that

if scientific progress continues we'll eventually be able to understand a

lot more of what's going on inside the brain on a microscopic level.

>http://tinyurl.com/cgzmu

I'll take a look at it, but I have to say that if the Amazon description is

correct that she's interpreting zero point energy as some sort of divine

presence, I doubt I'll be impressed.

>I hope that you choose to come. Just found out the other day that the

>registration ends on August 10th.

I hope I'm not making a huge mistake, but despite substantial reservations

(including a serious objection to the idea that I pay $195 and Craig

gets to incorporate me into his videos without any further how-dee-do) I

made my reservation.

If nothing else, it's always fun to meet list members.

Do you know if he allows attendees to tape workshops for their own use?

>No food nearby. Stamford is a fun little town with a bunch of thriving

>restaurants and a pretty interesting looking singles community but we

>couldn't find any place that had clean food. Best we got was a huge grilled

>chicken salad at one of pubs near the hotel.

That's what I thought. Hasn't changed, then, so medium-sized cooler here I

come.

>So I hooked up with some of them and my life promptly went

>into the toilet. LOL. Knowing what I know now I suspect that it was more

>the people who were doing the work than it was the processes themselves, but

>it wasn't until I discovered EFT in 2000 that I started to get mild gain and

>began to move forward.

I've never come across anything positive about Scientology's practices

except for its objections to pharmaceutical psychology, but even that's

almost accidental in a way, the result of competition between two odious

factions rather than any kind of genuine integrity.

>So right now I primarily find EFT, Holosync and Tantra to be the most useful

>technologies in my life.

Do you use the Awakenings disc daily? I can never manage to find the time.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Christie,

> >> Once you get the appropriate

> and correct knowledge or understanding then you can release

> the problem. If

> you choose to.

> <<

> Or not... you can let go of the problem WITHOUT

> " understanding " it too.

Some people can and many, many others can't. You lost a ton of weight. 95%

of the people in the US who want to are unable to make it work for them.

What is holding their weight in place?

> You

> don't need to understand a hot potato to drop it.

Simplistic answer to a simple problem. And one that is different in nature

than the problem of how to lose weight, get a boyfriend, quit smoking, etc.

But true, none-the-less.

>

> We can waste years trying to get to the bottom of our

> problems and develop

> this deep and complete knowledge of them, and still be stuck

> in actions we

> don't like or want to want to change (no, that was not a typo).

Yes of course.

I would say to you that this is the problem with negative type processing in

which you are trying to release a problem rather that just work over top of

it. The real problem is not the effort that was expended but that you never

found the true cause. I have just seen this happen too many times with EFT

processing -- years of no success and frustration and then you hit on the

correct item and the problem dissipates.

>

> You can decide to change your behavior without fully

> understanding it.

Agreed. That's what I finally did as I was unable to successfully use any

of the processes that I knew to find the real cause. I just said the hell

with it and dug in my heels. I succeeded. Most do not. I don't really

know why I succeeded, either, for that matter. I'm not complaining, though.

> You

> can also really understand it and still not want to, or be

> able to, change

> it.

Yup.

>Or you can go through life with no understanding and

> never changing, or

> you can of course understand it and change it. But there's no

> magical power

> granted by understanding,

I disagree. When you get to the true root cause the problem can release.

Or you can choose to maintain it. This sounds non-sensical because most

people would certainly give up a problem that they were working on and

trying to get rid of. But frequently we get understanding of problem

spontaneously and don't necessarily care about the problem enough to make

the change.

> and for some people, all that time spent on

> THINKING ABOUT the deep meaning of all their bad patterns and

> habits is just

> a waste of time and a distraction from DOING SOMETHING.

Just like anything else the search for deep meaning can be a distraction.

Most people who get addicted to this kind of thing dig deep but always make

sure that they stop prior to getting the solution. It's the digging that

they love and they much prefer to have their problems while looking to the

rest of the world like they are making an effort. So I judge the efficacy

of any process by whether it creates the results it promises to -- psych,

religion, EFT, whatever.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> >I completely agree with you but we have a problem. There

> are people who's

> >entire goal in life is to disprove this kind of thing and

> they get a lot of

> >press. It's the " fear, uncertainty, doubt " method of

> stopping inquiry and

> >creating distrust. It works.

>

> There's definitely a FUD atmosphere out there, but it

> certainly hasn't

> stopped all sorts of cranks from making all sorts of claims which are

> relatively readily debunked. (I'm thinking in people who

> insist they've

> " transcended " the need to eat, but that's just one example of

> many.)

I don't know how to answer this question in any way that sounds satisfactory

to me. There have certainly been those who have lied about their

capabilities. And they do it in a very public way. In fact, one of the

more common threads in some of the books that I've read states that those

who really have these abilities and really know how to do these things do

not seek the limelight so you can be pretty well assured that if someone is

doing this on TV he's a fraud. That's a pretty nice setup, eh? Yeah, we

can do the magical stuff but only the silent ones who you never see can do

it. LOL.

All I can say is that the more I experience the more open I am to the

possibility that there are people who can do this. I have never met any of

them. And yet, a couple of years ago I would have laughed hysterically if

you told me that I would be able to experience some of the things that I

have experienced in the past months.

> Why

> would FUD affect people who can actually alter physical

> reality with 100%

> effectiveness while allowing loads of crackpots through?

I would say that FUD would not affect them at all. They can do it, whatever

it is. (or not) FUD keeps people like you and me from investigating any

further because we dismiss everyone due to the cheeseburger eating

" breatharian " .

>

> >One of my favorite guys to read is the one

> >who debunks the paranormal in Scientific American magazine.

> He's far more

> >religious than most of the fundamentalist Christians that I

> know. And much

> >more aggressive about it.

>

> The difference is that his positions are verifiable or

> falsifiable.

Yes. But he's frequently and hilariously wrong despite that.

> But

> extremism is hardly limited to religious fundamentalists,

> though I assure

> you there are plenty of fundamentalists who give the SciAm a

> run for his

> money and then some.

No question. I just picked on them since they are an easy target. Having

formerly been a born again Christian I know all about Fundamentalism.

>

> >So what you are saying here is that it is not possible for

> us to discuss our

> >interior states with any kind of validity because it's

> untranslatable.

>

> No, not exactly. I'm saying that ***IF*** our internal

> reality is entirely

> unique and untranslatable, then meaningful communication is

> impossible.

Okay. Agreed.

>

> However, I believe the scientific arguments in favor of many

> commonalities

> of mind being necessary responses to the physical universe are very

> convincing, and therefore a good deal of communication should

> be possible,

> even between many potential alien species.

I'm not sure that I'm tracking you here. It is easily understood that we

all have many commonalities of mind. When I say Sun you comprehend, right?

We are having an experience that is similar enough for us to communicate.

So your original point is not really relevant? I don't see how this

applies.

>

> >If I tell you that I

> >have a buzzing sensation on the left side of my head that

> can't be verified

> >in any external way by any kind of observer. So in your

> world my buzzing

> >sensation is uninteresting (to you) because it's

> untranslatable and has no

> >generalized meaning. What that ends up meaning is that you

> and I place less

> >value on subjective mental phenomena than we do on things that can be

> >defined as physical universe objects.

>

> Well, see above, but besides that, I think it's reasonable to

> assume that

> if scientific progress continues we'll eventually be able to

> understand a

> lot more of what's going on inside the brain on a microscopic level.

And here's an interesting question. Is it all actually happening in the

brain? We get into some interesting possibilities that are reported by many

different societies worldwide but generally rejected by ours. There are

explicit models for energetic bodies that precede the brain and mind. They

have been very thoroughly mapped over thousands of years. This goes to what

I think Heidi was talking about in her post on the Dalai Lama.

>

> >http://tinyurl.com/cgzmu

>

> I'll take a look at it, but I have to say that if the Amazon

> description is

> correct that she's interpreting zero point energy as some

> sort of divine

> presence, I doubt I'll be impressed.

You can ignore all of that and just read it for the data. Lots of

interesting reports about legit research into this area over the past 30

years. In fact -- I didn't even recall that she decided zero point energy

was divine. Must have blanked that part out. LOL.

>

> >I hope that you choose to come. Just found out the other

> day that the

> >registration ends on August 10th.

>

> I hope I'm not making a huge mistake, but despite substantial

> reservations

> (including a serious objection to the idea that I pay $195

> and Craig

> gets to incorporate me into his videos without any further

> how-dee-do) I

> made my reservation.

Excellent!

>

> If nothing else, it's always fun to meet list members.

Yes. I look forward to it.

>

> Do you know if he allows attendees to tape workshops for

> their own use?

I do not know.

> >So right now I primarily find EFT, Holosync and Tantra to be

> the most useful

> >technologies in my life.

>

> Do you use the Awakenings disc daily? I can never manage to

> find the time.

I used the first two levels every day for about a year. I'm still

fascinated that I actually managed to pull that off as it is a big time

commitment. I mostly slept through the second level. At the end of that

one I gave up even though I had already purchased the third level. It all

languished for a couple of years until I realized that it was most likely

the year of Holosync that has opened me up to what I'm experiencing with

other practices. Now I'm back on track with level three and do use it

almost daily. My experience of it now is very different than my experience

of the first two discs.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>That's a pretty nice setup, eh? Yeah, we

>can do the magical stuff but only the silent ones who you never see can do

>it. LOL.

A pretty nice setup for sure. It's abundant reason for extreme skepticism

all by itself.

>I would say that FUD would not affect them at all. They can do it, whatever

>it is. (or not) FUD keeps people like you and me from investigating any

>further because we dismiss everyone due to the cheeseburger eating

> " breatharian " .

You misunderstand me, I think. I'm not suggesting that FUD would keep

people able to alter reality from altering it, I'm asking why FUD would

stop ALL of them, 100% without exceptions, from coming forward to

demonstrate their abilities, while not stopping legions of frauds from

grabbing at the limelight. It's not plausible that extreme modesty is 100%

correlated with remarkable mental abilities.

>I'm not sure that I'm tracking you here. It is easily understood that we

>all have many commonalities of mind. When I say Sun you comprehend, right?

>We are having an experience that is similar enough for us to communicate.

>So your original point is not really relevant? I don't see how this

>applies.

It was kind of a tangent. I was saying that if those people are correct,

then there's no point.

>There are

>explicit models for energetic bodies that precede the brain and mind. They

>have been very thoroughly mapped over thousands of years. This goes to what

>I think Heidi was talking about in her post on the Dalai Lama.

If there are actual models, then they'd be testable and they'd make

falsifiable predictions.

>I used the first two levels every day for about a year. I'm still

>fascinated that I actually managed to pull that off as it is a big time

>commitment. I mostly slept through the second level. At the end of that

>one I gave up even though I had already purchased the third level. It all

>languished for a couple of years until I realized that it was most likely

>the year of Holosync that has opened me up to what I'm experiencing with

>other practices. Now I'm back on track with level three and do use it

>almost daily. My experience of it now is very different than my experience

>of the first two discs.

Ahh, sorry, I blanked out entirely and thought you were using Awakened

Minds, which I have, not Holosync.

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